Even Sun Can't Use Java

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Cheers for this one G ;)

It turns out that Sun does not eat its own dog food. Specifically, this internal memo from Sun strongly suggests that Java should not be used for Sun's internal projects. More interesting still, they go on to state which other languages fullfil Java's goals better than Java does itself. Finally, the memo states Sun's own Solaris is the cause of many of Java's woes. Yikes.

View: Internal Memo

News source: /.

Windows Server 2003 Build 3764
Finalized Thursday and publish Friday morning, this is the same as build 3763 but has the new “full” shipping PID’s. Otherwise it’s identical to 3763.

Windows Server 2003 Build 3765
Targeted for 2003-02-07, published 2003-02-08 and ESCROW, intended as RTM/GOLDEN. Minor changes compared to 3764.
The final build number will differ from 3765, but if build 3765 is stable – survives testing without showstoppers – it’s the code in this build that will be “golden”.
No new code will be checked in after this date, if not a “showstopper”.

RTM
Time is critical. With the commitment of launch the 24th of April (boxes in stores), Microsoft has to RTM the code March 12, 2003.
The code that is RTM has to survive about 15 days of ESCROW before RTM.

Important Dates
April 23, 2003 Release of GPMC
April 24, 2003 Launch of Windows Server 2003 in USA
May 1, 2003 Release of ADS (Automated Deployment Services)
May 12, 2003 Release of ADAM (AD Application Mode)
RTM + 90 days Release of Metadirectory Service
June 2, 2003 Release of SharePoint Services
June 15, 2003 Release of Real Time Services
June 15, 2003 Release of Digital Rights Management

#1 XeroByte on 09 Feb 2003 - 19:17

LOL, figures... not surprising me tho

#2 [AMD]-SimGuy on 09 Feb 2003 - 19:24

Ugh. Sun should go take a hike.

(3 replies) #3 Jaz on 09 Feb 2003 - 19:25

errmm this is a week old news, why is everyone picking it up now, it was on the Inq first

#3.1 werejag on 09 Feb 2003 - 20:23

then why did you not post this in bpn??

#3.2 werejag on 09 Feb 2003 - 20:24

..... double posted

#3.3 Fanon on 10 Feb 2003 - 04:23

[neoquote=#3.0 by Jaz]errmm this is a week old news, why is everyone picking it up now, it was on the Inq first[/neoquote] Anything posted on Inq is automatically taken as rumor until it is proven.

#4 edgrale on 09 Feb 2003 - 19:33

*sigh* read the freaking article. It says that some part of the java engine on Solaris still has some flaws that need to be fixed.

#5 Dessimat0r on 09 Feb 2003 - 19:51

As I said, Java is shite.

(2 replies) #6 kairon on 09 Feb 2003 - 20:43

Javs is bloated from what I've seen / heard.Assembly is much rawer/higher performance

#6.1 jesterzwild on 09 Feb 2003 - 21:07

Java is only bloated because it has to encompass so much, not to mention it being the type of programming language it is. The .NET languages from MS are just as bloated for that matter (that is the only language you can really compare Java to that's garnering the same kind of attention). Of course Assembly is faster, but that's beside the point... the fact is that Assembly is the wrong type of language for the areas that Java is being used in (at least the ones where it is strong). Let's not compare apples and oranges here.

#6.2 guinnessman on 10 Feb 2003 - 02:43

[neoquote=#6.1 by jesterzwild]Java is only bloated because it has to encompass so much, not to mention it being the type of programming language it is. The .NET languages from MS are just as bloated for that matter (that is the only language you can really compare Java to that's garnering the same kind of attention). Of course Assembly is faster, but that's beside the point... the fact is that Assembly is the wrong type of language for the areas that Java is being used in (at least the ones where it is strong). Let's not compare apples and oranges here.[/neoquote] Agreed, comparing assembly to Java is apples to oranges; one is high level, while the other is low level, I'd taken classes in both and if I had to write code all day long, I'd rather use a high level language because it's easier to read and understand (and therefore easier to debug IMO). The assembly I've written (for microcontrollers) is very specific as the microcontroller I was using was limited in memory space and speed, Java needs a somewhat more complex processor to run.

#7 Beast_4thHM on 09 Feb 2003 - 20:52

This is exactly why MS will always win b/c other companies are so obsessed with chasing MS that they forget to invest in their own company

#8 jesterzwild on 09 Feb 2003 - 21:03

Anyone reading this story and these comments should do exactly what edgrale said, "read the freaking article". The choice to use other languages within Sun has less to do with the Java language itself but more to do with the JVM and lack of responce to Solaris specific requests made to the Java development team. This is also not all inclusive, to say, it does not apply to every division within Sun. What's funny is that within the first few paragraphs describing the decision and purpose of the memo, the virtues of the Java language are pointed out numerous times. With that said, I think the world would be a better place without Java... or I should say, without the marketing blunder that is Java. It's good for certain purposes/applications, but has been stretched too thin trying to be the end-all to programming languages.

#9 Goalie_CA on 09 Feb 2003 - 21:08

Honestly, i don't like any bit of java. The Vm, the lack of language features, the messy jdk, and just about everything else.

#10 Mr magoo on 09 Feb 2003 - 21:33

damn - my once chance to put "f u c k e d company" on the front page... and i was doing something else me crys

#11 Arnaudt on 09 Feb 2003 - 21:53

*sigh* ... and then they expect MS to use it - c'mon ... get real ... java is synonymous with crap and poo.

#12 XeroByte on 09 Feb 2003 - 22:04

I only use java on my mobile phone... I want to get a .net mobile goddammit....

#13 nacs on 09 Feb 2003 - 22:37

What's with all these "leaked" memos. This one is especially not credible IMO.

#14 McFly on 09 Feb 2003 - 23:18

Oh brother...I just wish Scott McNealy would go away, he's annoying

(2 replies) #15 kjordan2001 on 09 Feb 2003 - 23:31

Yep, Java sucks beans (pun intended). Makes me wonder why schools push it so much when there's better languages to push.

#15.1 tmeg on 09 Feb 2003 - 23:37

Hehe I never liked the fact that I could not run Java apps directly by double clicking it. But i had to configure so many class pathes and start it from the console with special parameters. probably thats the way the unix people like it. Then I was so unhappy when I realized that our project application did not run on a newer JDK, only on a specific version of Java. We used some "components" for which we don't have the source, so we can't fix that. So all in all this thing is really bad. But I have to admit in some cases it has its advantages. But only in very few...

#15.2 kjordan2001 on 09 Feb 2003 - 23:47

Well, there is a way to get it running by double clicking. There's an app with it called javaw.exe. Hmm, I also wonder what language they wrote their apps we use to run our stuff in

#16 Total_CDRW on 10 Feb 2003 - 01:00

Java good, Java use bad, Java programming bad

(2 replies) #17 JaggedFlame on 10 Feb 2003 - 01:48

This is pretty useless. It's just like those internal Microsoft documents that compared Unix to Windows and assessed the strengths of each OS as compared to the other. That didn't mean that Microsoft wasn't taking its own medicine, it just meant they were aware of the competition. So it's good that Sun is finally aware that their push of Java is inadequate... hopefully they'll pull their head that extra half-inch out of their arses and start to do something about it.

#17.1 macrosslover on 10 Feb 2003 - 01:54

[neoquote=#17.0 by JaggedFlame]This is pretty useless. It's just like those internal Microsoft documents that compared Unix to Windows and assessed the strengths of each OS as compared to the other. That didn't mean that Microsoft wasn't taking its own medicine, it just meant they were aware of the competition. So it's good that Sun is finally aware that their push of Java is inadequate... hopefully they'll pull their head that extra half-inch out of their arses and start to do something about it.

[/neoquote] you mean like pursue a lawsuit against Microsoft?? and seek 1 billion in damages from them??

#17.2 JaggedFlame on 10 Feb 2003 - 05:37

Not quite what I had in mind, but if it gets their business rolling, it's justified in a twisted, completely biased way. But wait. It doesn't even do that. Oh, dang it.

#18 Eric Ferleman on 10 Feb 2003 - 02:17

What a surprise. Not! Sun sucks

(1 reply) #19 pHuzi0n on 10 Feb 2003 - 02:51

Java is only good for one thing, serving semi-dynamic web pages. It's connection pooling junk combined with it's caching abilities allows all JSP pages within a site to be able to query the database much faster and also share the cached content that was retrieved from the database. Ace's Hardware has an article about it and how they were able to survive being slashdotted and only using 20% of their 500Mhz cpu.

#19.1 jesterzwild on 10 Feb 2003 - 02:57

That's a good point to make, although I think Java has more uses than just that. It is key to remember that Java is more than just one single entity. It's a set of technologies, including the programming language we all know and love/hate.

#20 cork1958 on 10 Feb 2003 - 11:51

Boo java. Boo Sun!!

#21 Tom Servo on 10 Feb 2003 - 12:06

Remember, the marketing/law departement (I think it's a merged dept at Sun) care about throwing lawsuits at MS, that note has been sent by the dev dept prolly.

#22 samwisefoxburr on 10 Feb 2003 - 15:20

Har Har

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