Radeon 9800 Pro speeds past GeForce FX

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ATI's upcoming contender for the graphics chip performance crown is a clear winner over Nvidia's latest offering, according to new tests from ZDNet Labs -- at least where it comes to top-end features. ATI and Nvidia dominate the market for consumer graphics chips. While most consumers would not pay £250 or so for the latest high-end add-in card, the publicity value around making the No. 1 chip can be valuable in selling to the mainstream market. ATI has been exploiting this fact for the past few months as it attempts to claw market share away from leader Nvidia on the strengths of higher-performance technology.

The new ATI Radeon 9800 Pro should reinforce that strategy, according to labs tests, delivering significantly better performance when using the chip's most advanced features. The Radeon 9800 Pro was tested against the GeForce FX 5800, Nvidia's own top-of-the-line card, under a variety of settings, and in many rounds the two cards were neck-and-neck, the labs said. However, when features such as anti-aliasing (AA) and anisotropic filtering (AF) -- two high-end features for adding realism to 3D environments -- were turned on, the Radeon card was "the unanimous winner", according to the tests.

View: ATI Radeon 9800 Pro: a first look

View: Radeon 9800 Pro speeds past GeForce FX

News source: ZDNet UK

As more features were turned on and higher resolutions were used, the Radeon card increased the performance gap over the GeForce FX. For example, with 4X AA and 4X AF at 1,600 by 1,200 screen resolution turned on, the Radeon 9800's performance decreased by 42 percent, while the GeForce FX decreased by 63 percent.

#1 McFly on 11 Mar 2003 - 20:45

Ack! Time to empty out the piggy bank and prepare to cough it up for one of these...think I'm finally sold on ATI after being an Nvidia geek for so long

(8 replies) #2 Jason on 11 Mar 2003 - 20:49

Give the Geforce FX a 256 bit memory bus and it would beat the 9800.

#2.1 Spyder on 11 Mar 2003 - 20:56

give the radeon 9800 a 512bit bus and it'd kill give me a space shuttle and i'd fly to the moon whee imaginary arguments are fun!

Last edited by 890 on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:43

#2.2 nonick on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:07

[neoquote=#2.1 by Spyder]give the radeon 9800 a 512bit bus and it'd kill give me a space shuttle and i'd fly to the moon whee imaginary arguments are fun![/neoquote] haha well said.

#2.3 Labtec on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:04

Give a so & so car a bigger engine and it'll be faster then the other car. Of course, like Spyder said you can argue that for anything. Too bad the original Manufacturer (Nvidia) didn't give the GeforceFX a 256 bit memory bus.

#2.4 Jason on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:12

You can say what you want, but guess what the next thing added to the Geforce will be.

#2.5 quanta on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:21

You know, you can't just magically slap a 256-bit bus on a videocard designed around a 128-bit bus. It requires a completely new redesign. It's too late for the NV30s and NV35s. Maybe when the NV40 comes around, but then ATI and the competitors aren't snoozing in the meantime.

#2.6 Jason on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:25

I am hoping that Nvidia have added the 256 bit bus to the NV35 their next major card, if not they are lagging behind again against the R350. It needs this just to keep up now, as higher clock speeds alone are not enough.

Last edited by 9969 on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:47

#2.7 warr on 12 Mar 2003 - 02:01

[neoquote=#2.0 by Jason]Give the Geforce FX a 256 bit memory bus and it would beat the 9800.[/neoquote] you give it. tell NV to do it.

why they so stoopid not to do it?

#2.8 Guspaz on 12 Mar 2003 - 18:32

[neoquote=#2.6 by Jason]I am hoping that Nvidia have added the 256 bit bus to the NV35 their next major card, if not they are lagging behind again against the R350. It needs this just to keep up now, as higher clock speeds alone are not enough.[/neoquote] By the time nVidia's NV35 is out, ATI will have something even better. Remember, ATI is a full product generation ahead of nVidia now. Also, from what I understand, current technology does not allow a 256 bit with DDR-2.

#3 David3k on 11 Mar 2003 - 20:49

Screw ATi! I will not be a weakling like...err...42 percent!?!?

NOOO!!!

#4 David3k on 11 Mar 2003 - 20:52

I pray to god that I won't have to kill everyone at ATi...save us nVidia! save ME nVidia!

#5 Animaniac on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:01

This blind love for nVidia reminds me of something similar... Oh yes, it's just like how Mac users clamor at the feet of Steve Jobs for apparently no reason. ATi is the market leader right now. Just deal with it. They make the better card, nVidia may come back with a better card or they may not (probably not for a long while). I personally think they deserve kudos for their successful dethroning of nVidia.

#6 Firecat on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:02

I've been sold on ATI... I'm looking to build a new Athlon XP 2800+ system within a month or two and was planning on getting the Radeon 9700 Pro. But now that the almighty 9800 is here, it looks like I'll be emptying out my savings account for this baby!

(2 replies) #7 Q25 on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:02

It's possible that we'll see NV35 soon according to this article.. [url=http://www.reactorcritical.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi?templ=single.http&id=1329]http://www.reactorcritical.com/cgi-bin/news.cgi?templ=single.http&id=1329[/url] Not a surprise if it happens considering all the time Nvidia must have had waiting for TSMC to be apple to make the chip in 0.13. I'll be waiting for the next generation of chips before buying, so actually I couldn't give a rats ass about what's happening now..

Lets see what the two companies can come up with.... till then..zzzzzzz

#7.1 Firecat on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:07

[neoquote=#7.0 by Q25]I'll be waiting for the next generation of chips before buying, so actually I couldn't give a rats ass about what's happening now..

Lets see what the two companies can come up with.... till then..zzzzzzz[/neoquote] Each to his own I guess... I've been waiting long enough; too long as a matter of fact.

#7.2 Kombatant on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:23

Hehehe.. all over again.. remember the launch of 9700? nVidia was like : "wait for a couple of months, we will release GFFX and smoke the competition!". Well, the rest is history

#8 VanAlex on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:42

I've been a Nvidia Fan since the first TNT, now it seems a good time to become an ATI fan. Maybe I'll keep my asus geforce 3 8200 Deluxe an little longer and upgrade my Athlon 1.2 to a Pentium 4 2.4 or something.....Wait to se the next generation of graphics.....decisions.

(1 reply) #9 thornz0 on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:44

i still love nvidia for all the great products of the past, but this is pretty much the final draw. Im going to buy a 9800 as soon as they become availble. Maybe next time around nvidia will quit screwing around. and wth is up with both companies virtually ignoring the mobile business. I want my dx9 mobile card dagnamnit

#9.1 Danrarbc641 on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:03

[neoquote=#9.0 by thornz0]and wth is up with both companies virtually ignoring the mobile business. I want my dx9 mobile card dagnamnit[/neoquote] ATi had a mobile dx8 chip out several months ago. And they have a dx9 one coming very soon.

(1 reply) #10 RobertH on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:57

Still early days, im not cancling my order of the 5800 Ultra for anything.

Anyhow ive had enough of "waiting" as someone else said so its time to buy buy buy. Sure i could wait a [b]bit[/b] longer for the 9800.... then i could wait a [b]bit longer[/b] for the NV35... then i could wait just a little bit longer for....

#10.1 Guspaz on 12 Mar 2003 - 18:33

The Radeon 9800 Pro will be here in what, 2 weeks? Think you'll have a GeForce FX within two weeks? I don't.

(2 replies) #11 SMG on 11 Mar 2003 - 21:59

ATI is becoming the market leader again

it would be nice if an xbox had one of these

#11.1 Jerichohol on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:18

[neoquote=#11.0 by SMG]ATI is becoming the market leader again

[/neoquote] You never know what the future may hold

#11.2 TC17 on 12 Mar 2003 - 04:47

[/neoquote] Actually it will be impossible for ATI to ever be the market leader until they fix the compatability problems that plague their cards. There are MANY motherboards that won't work right with the ATI cards, starting from their 8500 and up. Here is a link to some proof... [url]http://www.rage3d.com/tech/?page=9700[/url] Plug a Geforce into those same motherboards and they work fine. I own a ATI 9700, so its not like I have a reason to favor Nvidia. I just know past experiences I have gone through ATI with their 8500, and read the *exact* same problems with their latest cards. I'm certain Nvidia owners still far outnumber ATI owners.

(1 reply) #12 Foo Fighter on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:00

I'm thinking of going with the RADEON 9600. How does it stack up? Is it a good value?

#12.1 RobertH on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:23

Get a 9500 Pro instead while you still can, ATi are strangley not handing out 9600's to reviewers even though they are supposed to be finnished. Funny that though.

I would have thought they would be itching to show how much better it is than the GfFX mainstream cards

(1 reply) #13 ishtar on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:20

Yea I've got the step up program from evga so i'm waiting for the nv35 or nv40 to appear I still have another year to excercise my option. This card makes too much fan noise though people don't understand this is new technology .

#13.1 mezz on 12 Mar 2003 - 02:28

[neoquote=#13.0 by ishtar]This card makes too much fan noise though people don't understand this is new technology .[/neoquote] As it's a new technology? New technology is suppose to solve the problem by reduce the heat, space and nosie. Take the look at what ATI can do with their own technology, when Nvidia can't think of something simpler than take over the space (two slots, nonstandard). Do you call that a new technology? Perhaps, it's opposite that you don't understand what the new technology is?

#14 creamhackered on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:27

I might go for this card, its looking pretty good

(1 reply) #15 Khujo on 11 Mar 2003 - 22:59

from the early specs it looks like the 9500 Pro will outperform the 9600, so now may be the perfect time to get a 9500Pro. One thing i've noticed is that when 9700 Pro came out so many people just said wait for the Nv30, wait for nv30, haha its here now and people say wait for nv35. Its funny that people have such devotion to a name badge and will be blind to the absolutely wonderful quality of another companies product. I own both Ati and Nvidia cards but today in this moment ATi simply rules, no one can really make a valid argument otherwise. The GeforceFX 5600/5200 are just pathetic cards when up against 9500 Pro, i really hoped nvidia would do better than this 3 disappointing products after missing a product cycle is just not good and does little to invoke good feelings in the hearts of nvidia followers. Ati fans on the other hand have something to celebrate 7 months of nothing but quality video cards that have gotten rave reviews all over the place and the performance crown firmly in hand.

#15.1 thornz0 on 11 Mar 2003 - 23:12

[quote]Its funny that people have such devotion to a name badge and will be blind to the absolutely wonderful quality of another companies product[/quote] thats a really poor comment. The thing is, those loyalists KNOW they can expect quality with nvidia, whereas ati is foreign, theyve had no experience and only the word of others. Its not stupid. ridiculous, or poor decision making. Im going to get an ati, I can listen to the opinions of others in large enough quantities and be satisfied, that doesnt go for everyone however and theres nothing wrong with it

#16 kainashi on 11 Mar 2003 - 23:10

i'll wait for the nv35 to be benchmarked against the 9800 pro before i praise ati again.

(1 reply) #17 bilston on 11 Mar 2003 - 23:15

Is it worth upgrading to from a Ti4600?

#17.1 Guspaz on 12 Mar 2003 - 18:40

Yes. The Radeon 9800 Pro is significantly faster than the GeForce Ti 4600. First, look at this benchmark to see how much the Radeon 9700 Pro outperforms the Ti 4600: http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1683&p=18 Then look at this to see how much the Radeon 9800 Pro outperforms the Radeon 9700 Pro: http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1794&p=7 I'm going to go ahead and estimate that the Radeon 9800 Pro is 250-350% faster than the Ti 4600 under stresful situations (AA+aniso, the preferred mode on modern cards). Seems like two or three times faster is worth the upgrade :p

#18 Khujo on 12 Mar 2003 - 00:18

yes 9800, even 9700 is a nice upgrade from ti4600 tho in some cases serious sam for example ti4600 can beat 9700 pro most cases it is a large performance increase to be had, the 9x00 have great AA and AF performance that leaves the rest far behind.

(1 reply) #19 Darkness2k on 12 Mar 2003 - 01:56

From what I saw of the benchmarks they got a whopping 100 3d marks extra for using a 9800 instead of the Geforce FX... How much more will ATI charge just so people can say "well I get an amazing big 100 3d marks better than you NVidia"... Or do ATI have some scheme to have the price of the 9800 under that of the top FX?

#19.1 Guspaz on 12 Mar 2003 - 18:42

It depends on what settings you use. Using 4xAA and 8x aniso, and the Radeons can run that no problem so it has become almost standard, you get these results: http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=1794&p=7 A bit more than a minor difference now, isn't it?

#20 warr on 12 Mar 2003 - 02:03

the crown is clear. NVidiots, you lose. that's all. stop making noise.

#21 Khujo on 12 Mar 2003 - 03:01

its not the 3dmark score that even matters with the 9800, its the up 30% increase in performance with AA and AF at high resolution then the 9700 or the FX5800.

(2 replies) #22 dacris2000 on 12 Mar 2003 - 05:18

I have a strange feeling that NVIDIA will die much like 3dfx. They haven't been able to deliver even the GeForce FX and now in this review, it shows that even the GeForce FX is not fast enough to beat ATI. They need to do some more R&D or they'll have to back out eventually.

#22.1 iczman on 12 Mar 2003 - 08:09

I think nVidia's still a very healthy company... Ppl were disappointed in GFX because it CAME OUT AFTER R9700 yet it's hardly faster than R9700. If it's the other way around then ppl would be bashing ATi now... Although GFX came out several months later than R9700, but both of them were able to deliver top notch cards that perform head to head. Plus it's understandable that the delay of GFX was caused by the switch to .13 from .15.

#22.2 Guspaz on 12 Mar 2003 - 18:46

[neoquote=#22.1 by iczman]I think nVidia's still a very healthy company... Ppl were disappointed in GFX because it CAME OUT AFTER R9700 yet it's hardly faster than R9700. If it's the other way around then ppl would be bashing ATi now... Although GFX came out several months later than R9700, but both of them were able to deliver top notch cards that perform head to head. Plus it's understandable that the delay of GFX was caused by the switch to .13 from .15.[/neoquote] People are dissapointed because the GeForce FX is one full product generation later than ATI's matching solution. ATI meet the GFFX with the 9700, which came out 6 months (one generation) ago. ATI now has a new card that is better than the 9700/GFFX. nVidia missed one full product gen, ATI kept pumping new cards out. For nVidia to catch up, they'll either have to skip a generation (as in have a vastly superior card), or hope ATI misses a rev. The switch to 0.13 microns is not an excuse. The GeForce FX runs 175Mhz faster than the Radeon 9800, and the memory runs 470Mhz faster (Correct me if those speeds are wrong), yet the Radeon 9800 STILL outperforms the GFFX, and doesn't need horribly extravagent cooling or excessive power. It's this simple: The GeForce FX is a very innefficient and poorly designed core.

#23 DsnBehind on 12 Mar 2003 - 07:39

In order to get it to work, you must wait a few months for ATI to get the drivers right. HeHeHe

(1 reply) #24 leebobs on 12 Mar 2003 - 10:32

Microsoft will release DX9.1 soon so what is the point of a DX9 card?!? No games use it, hardly any will. ATI need to re-write their drivers but on the same token so do nVidia

#24.1 Guspaz on 12 Mar 2003 - 18:48

Both the Radeon 9800 and the GeForce FX already greatly surpass the DirectX 9 spec. Depending on what Microsoft puts into the DirectX 9.1 spec, both cards may already be DirectX 9.1 compliant. And, IIRC, both nVidia and ATI already have DirectX 9 drivers out. ATI certainly does (Catalyst 3.0, no?), and nVidia's 43.00, I think.

#25 2xSilverKnight on 13 Mar 2003 - 01:12

and don't forget this : radeon 9800 pro = 399 $us geforce FX 5800 Ultra = 499 $us and the radeon 9800 is better ...

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