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Microsoft asks colleges to teach hacking

configure   on 23 March 2003 - 00:05 · 31 comments & 2410 views

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Microsoft is working with a number of universities in several countries to set up courses that teach students how to write secure code, the company said Friday. The University of Leeds in England is the first to announce such a course.

As part of an 11 week module that will start in January next year, third-year undergraduates at the University of Leeds will be asked to hack into software and fix any security bugs they find, Nick Efford, senior teaching fellow at the School of Computing, University of Leeds, said.

"We are going to get our students to think about software in a different way and look at software with a different perspective. We will give them examples of software and will ask them to perform a security audit of it and identify things that are insecure and then ask them to fix the problems," Efford said.

Students will be confronted with security vulnerabilities such as buffer overruns and taught how to prevent those when writing software. That focus on security in software engineering and the hands-on experience makes the course different from most existing security classes, which typically focus on network security and cryptography, according to Efford.

News source: InfoWorld - Microsoft asks colleges to teach hacking


Microsoft is partly funding Efford's fellowship and is helping with the curriculum's content. The Redmond, Washington , software maker is in talks with other universities on similar programs, Stuart Okin, chief security officer for Microsoft in the U.K. said.

"We are talking to a number of universities in the U.S. ," he said. "I hope of a world where in a few years' time every computing course is teaching some part of writing secure code."

Microsoft's university program is closely linked to its Trustworthy Computing initiative, a Microsoft-wide focus on securing its products that was launched early last year. As part of that initiative, Microsoft halted the development work of thousands of software engineers for 10 weeks to train them to look at software like hackers do.

Okin would like to see all software vendors share their knowledge with academic institutions so future programmers have better security knowledge. "The software industry as a whole will want to take on people who have this skill set," he said.

That Microsoft is sponsoring the course at the University of Leeds does not mean students will only work with Microsoft's technology, Efford said. "We are not focusing exclusively on any one vendor's technology. We have to equip our students with broad knowledge," he said.

Okin agreed: "We need to get input from others as well. Clearly there is no point in these undergraduates learning only about Microsoft technology. We need a broad approach."

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(2 replies) #1 mintll on 23 Mar 2003 - 00:11
Happy!!!

Last edited by 14261 on 23 Mar 2003 - 00:29
#1.1 Kris on 23 Mar 2003 - 00:24
how sad! :p
#1.2 werejag on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:52
cheer up and hack the planet!!!!!!
(5 replies) #2 Mr. Black on 23 Mar 2003 - 00:35
This is a BAD idea - all it takes is getting one of those students pissed off enough that he turns around and uses his knowledge in a destructive way, instead of the way they originally intended it to be used. Even though it could be years before something gets them mad enough to do it, it's a VERY serious risk. I'm not saying that every one of them will use it for destructive purposes, but think statistically - 1 out of 10 may just do it (for example)... , and it may not be because their mad - maybe they want info on a coworker or screw up a coworkers HR file, increase their salary a couple hundred dollars if payroll is automated, etc. the possibilities of destructive oppurtunities is practically limitless with a will to do it.
#2.1 werejag on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:48
hacking is a good thing. get off your anti-technology kick and hack!!! thank god for hackers, the helped bring the internet to people like you. thank god for 99% of software and hardware that hackers showed the use of it! please learn about hacker history you will be amazed.

Last edited by 10354 on 23 Mar 2003 - 03:12
#2.2 Mr. Black on 23 Mar 2003 - 07:29
I'm well aware of the history of them, thank you. I was not talking about all hackers in the first place, I was talking about these students. Nowhere in the comment did I make reference to any other hackers besides what the university is teaching them. -- and I am not Anti-Technology. I preach Technology to anyone and everyone. I'm sure that statistically one of them will turn into a black hat, and cause damage bad enough to make his target lose lots of money... Debugging programs is one thing - hacking is another, IMHO. You need to realize what I said above - they are potentially teaching them methods that could endanger companies when the "hacker" himself becomes upset or disgruntled about something, and uses his skills in an inappropriate manner. I will also mention that there are laws with harsh punishments that deal with gaining unauthorized access to computer information systems, even though that may not be the case when the school is telling them to do it - it's the future that will tell if they use the skills in an inappropriate manner (which, again, is statistically true for at least 1 out of 10...) Argue all you want, my opinion will not change. Issue closed.

Last edited by 11411 on 23 Mar 2003 - 07:40
#2.3 Thekk on 23 Mar 2003 - 12:11
Well, if you are right and only one of those 10 will turn into a 'baddy' (cracker is a better term here though), the other 9 will in this view have made their code so secure that the cracker won't have any chance. Wich means that the software companies that hired them won't loose any money. That's a good thing, right?
#2.4 Jon on 23 Mar 2003 - 19:08
[quote] Argue all you want, my opinion will not change. Issue closed. [/quote] Well there speaks a very open minded person... I think your opinion is very wrong. They wont be taught anything they couldnt easily learn via the net, but they will be taught to use it in a professional manner.
#2.5 werejag on 27 Mar 2003 - 10:28
Mr. Black you put me in my place. lol. who do you think you are anyways? the case is not closed like your little closed mind. you simple are anti-technology. anti-change, and anti-history
(1 reply) #3 Mav Phoenix on 23 Mar 2003 - 00:53
Bad idea....
#3.1 werejag on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:52
Can you express your self past the sound bites? this is a very good idea, too bad microsoft runs it!
#4 Joshie on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:02
I don't think this is a bad idea at all. Isn't that how software [b]should[/b] be written? Know about vulnerabilities and recognize flaws that could be exploited by hackers, and avoid them? If medieval armor smiths didn't give a crap about what sword smiths made weapons out of, wars would've ended a lot faster due to all the paper armor the knights would've been wearing.
(1 reply) #5 Clone5k on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:07
Seems like Microsoft just wants to hire programmers to work for free and fix the security vulnerabilities in their products. It's a bit took much of a risk just to save a couple dollars.
#5.1 JaggedFlame on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:47
[QUOTE]That Microsoft is sponsoring the course at the University of Leeds does not mean students will only work with Microsoft's technology, Efford said. "We are not focusing exclusively on any one vendor's technology. We have to equip our students with broad knowledge," he said.[/QUOTE]
#6 youm0nt on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:20
i like their idea hehe
#7 DjmUK on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:30
I wouldn't mind learning that course.
#8 fdiaz2day on 23 Mar 2003 - 01:54
No!
#9 Avenger on 23 Mar 2003 - 02:01
Sounds like a good idea to me.
#10 Yoshy on 23 Mar 2003 - 03:01
I think it's good to be informed about such exploits inorder to avoid making them when you code... [QUOTE] #2 Mr. Black on 22 Mar 2003 - 19:35 This is a BAD idea - all it takes is getting one of those students pissed off enough that he turns around and uses his knowledge in a destructive way, instead of the way they originally intended it to be used. Even though it could be years before something gets them mad enough to do it, it's a VERY serious risk. [/QUOTE] So ? A programmer may also turn evil and start coding viruses and trojans... My 2cents. Please excuse my poor english
#11 gameguy34 on 23 Mar 2003 - 04:48
good idea i think, software should be written this way. programmers will have a different perspective on code now.
#12 btallack on 23 Mar 2003 - 05:39
Crash Override, Acidburn, Zerocool, Get ready to hack the planet. Microsoft Presents Hackers 3: Divide by 0
(2 replies) #13 j.reed on 23 Mar 2003 - 06:56
But you see, the point is, that these people will write the code that runs the payroll and HR files, this way, they don't get hacked into, because their peer wrote it better then his own hacking skills.
#13.1 Mr. Black on 23 Mar 2003 - 07:35
[neoquote=#13.0 by j.reed]But you see, the point is, that these people will write the code that runs the payroll and HR files, this way, they don't get hacked into, because their peer wrote it better then his own hacking skills.[/neoquote] I've heard this scenario before, and I've heard of things getting hacked that were programmed/designed/built by a hacker. The key to anything is that with enough time and patience, anyone can break anything...
#13.2 werejag on 27 Mar 2003 - 10:31
but Mr. Black you never take any of it to heart. [quote]Argue all you want, my opinion will not change. Issue closed.[/quote]
(1 reply) #14 leebobs on 23 Mar 2003 - 10:53
DIRTY DIRTY LEEDS
#14.1 pctuk on 23 Mar 2003 - 12:07
(1 reply) #15 Hills420 on 23 Mar 2003 - 15:51
I wonder how long it will take for MS to realize that this isn't such a good idea....
#15.1 JaggedFlame on 23 Mar 2003 - 19:32
Or how long it will take for you to realize that it is a good idea.
#16 FISKER_Q on 23 Mar 2003 - 16:29
Im surprised to see they arent even teaching hacking now. In Denmark we mostly get the knowledge of hacking when we want to be system administrators, since it can help us better identify what a hacker might, would or have done.
#17 Gweedo on 23 Mar 2003 - 20:26
Where do I sign up?!
#18 stecool on 18 Jul 2004 - 19:19
I think, Gates just outdone himself.
Good move Bill!
Teaching programmers to hack is absolutely the best thing to do to protect
software/internet. I am actually surprised to see that no one ever
done this...???

But think about this, you know that lots "I mean LOTS" of
Software is shared, pirated, hacked and so on... which is a good thing, if everyone for example would have had to pay full price ($100-$300+ for window, which lots of people can not afford, But they recommend it to many other people...) Not many people would ever have discovered it. Honestly, most people have some type of
cracked/hacked software on their PC`s. Do you?

If software company would make software that is uncrackable they would most likely loose lots of business.

But, for websites/software that handle credit cards and any type of money transaction, it can never be too secure.

So, Again.
Good Move Bill Gates!

Stecool

Stecool25@hotmail.com



Last edited by 62982 on 18 Jul 2004 - 19:40

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