Neowin News: Banner here, Banner there, Banner everywhere?

Advertisement (Why?)

You may of noticed that since yesterday Neowin has been displaying "Fastclick" ad banners. This is because for the first time in two and a half years we have come to understand that running Neowin without revenue to pay for our resources just isn't possible. Invision Power Services are great, they pay for our server in return for exposure but lately they have had to upgrade us well beyond their own hardware specifications and they have been paying out of their own pockets for the excessive bandwidth Neowin uses. We can't allow this to continue so we have had to come up with an arrangement that tries to benefit all concerned. So what does this mean? I'll attempt to explain.

Banners
Neowin will display Fastclick banners on the main site alongside the sponsored ads from Invision Power Services, the Fastclick banners are not permitted in the forums so there is no change there at this time but we won't rule out selling banner space to independent customers who want to advertise via Neowin.

Please read more for the rest of the statement

Pop Ups/Under
The question on everyones mind I suspect, Does this mean Neowin will start adding pop-ups/unders to the site? Simply put, No

We have opted to place a "tower ad" in our menu space instead of adding pop-ups/under to the site. The pop-ups/unders do return more cpm but like we have already said we are only interested in covering the cost of Neowin where we can.

We know some people might be difficult toward this decision but luckily for them they do not have the burden of running a site like Neowin at a monthly loss to our sponsors.

What other changes?
An additional change will be the way Neowin handles off site links, we will be adding an exit frame so that members can easily navigate back to Neowin

View: Neowin Exit Frame (opens in a new window)

As you can see we are able to place a banner there that is non-intrusive to the rest of the site and serves a purpose. The frame is easy to "break out of" and has a link back to Neowin (where the frame also closes)

Additionally we are considering member services, these will be additional services so we won't be taking away benefits to sell a package, these are all ideas at the moment, we are pondering on a few ideas like file hosting, forum benefits such as no flood control, no word filter, member lounge, team icon and a few other things we are not completely decided on yet. The bottom line is you won't need these services, they will be in support of Neowin, we will just be throwing in some stuff and recognition for thanks.

As far as other changes go, who knows. We may insert a banner in the comments section again like we had temporarily at our previous host. The difference being you won't see an adult related banners here because Fastclicks own policy rules that type of advertising out. Fastclicks Privacy Statement can be read here, as you can see they respect the privacy of our visitors.

Comments are welcome, I hope when you are responding you also understand our predicament.

(4 replies) #1 SoftwareX on 28 Mar 2003 - 10:24

Its all cool. As long as Neowin is up and running, popups don't really annoy me (as long as if they don't keep popping up.) But one thing, I strongly disagree with the member services. Any costly thing which will create a hierarchy (spelling) with members is "stupid" to me. I mean you pay to swear and stuff? That just seems wrong. And also, most sites which say they won't make the site turning into a pay site, most of the time, do. They begin with member "subscriptions" and stuff and then at the end, 80% of their content turns into paid stuff. i.e. Gamespot

Thats just my 2 cents.

#1.1 Neobond on 28 Mar 2003 - 10:29

We can add a PayPal icon but I'd rather give something back than just take.. this is also the reason its undecided. It may not happen, it may not even be needed I do want to stress that Neowin will not become a "pay site" it will be recognition for member support which is exactly what we will be aiming for if we do it. I once said I will not take members money. I still support that statement which is also the reason it may never happen, it will have to be worth it to make it reality.

#1.2 leebobs on 28 Mar 2003 - 10:36

Add the paypal icon.... Some people will donate to use Neowin, its a great service which people like to use.

#1.3 Fil on 28 Mar 2003 - 10:44

I'd agree. I personally would be happy to support Neowin in this fashion. Its doesn't have to be anything 'in-your-face', just a small text link or sommat. And I don't mind ads, the web is full of them and its strange to find a site that hasn't got an ad somewhere rather than a site that has.

#1.4 SoftwareX on 28 Mar 2003 - 11:28

[neoquote=#1.1 by Neobond]We can add a PayPal icon but I'd rather give something back than just take.. this is also the reason its undecided. It may not happen, it may not even be needed I do want to stress that Neowin will not become a "pay site" it will be recognition for member support which is exactly what we will be aiming for if we do it. I once said I will not take members money. I still support that statement which is also the reason it may never happen, it will have to be worth it to make it reality.[/neoquote] Donation is a good idea. I'd strongly suggest that. But you might also want to do some non-paypal donation "things." Cause I really want to donate to Neowin, but I don't have a credit card/PayPal account. Maybe Cheques? or Money Orders and stuff.

(1 reply) #2 leebobs on 28 Mar 2003 - 10:35

I didn't notice..... Blocked by Tweak XP. If you want pop-ups bring them too..... Blocked by Tweak XP. Its not that I don't support Neowin, I just don't like ad's but as they don't effect me do what you like!!

#2.1 frazell on 29 Mar 2003 - 03:05

Sadly if they had to resort to pop-unders users such as you would make it worhtless. They cant earn teh benifit of running one pop-under vs. annoying users with 3 if every user preventing them from loading in the first place. Neowin is free and honestly i think we should chip in as nothing free, if its via a banner fine a single pop-under (like many sites who do 1 per day per ip) its fine nothing is ever free.

(1 reply) #3 Quick Reply on 28 Mar 2003 - 10:38

I would definately donate in a second, except I don't have paypal/credit card, so I'ld much rather send 20 bucks to a mailing address. I [B]STRONGLY[/B] disagree with a members lounge because member content could sneek into there (beyong nw's control, members [I]will[/I] make their own content), and does create a Hierachy. I also think that it is stupid for a fee to spam the board, or a fee to break the rules when it comes to swearing (even though I know how to get around it, ie say shit looks like shit ) because they are double standards + a team icon creates a hierachy, as mentioned in a few posts above What I do strongly agree on too, apart from the cash/paypal donations, is the file hosting, because it's a useful service that will be easy to sign up for and doesn't require buying an entire domain name from IPS And another thaught about donations, if someone does donate, they don't get a special mention in their profile, although they can mention it in their sig (and if someone does mention their donation in a sig or post, a mod can check that they did indeed actually donate- by having how much was donated under the avatar, but only viewable by mods- so if they didn't donate, dispite their claims that they did, they can be penalised ) And the ads don't bother me must, except the tower ad can be placed under "my neowin" instead of lower down of the page for higher views/cpm Well there are so many thaughts about this.. that's all that floated out of my mind at once

Last edited by 22902 on 28 Mar 2003 - 12:02

#3.1 frazell on 29 Mar 2003 - 03:10

I think members should get reconized for donating its only right. It wont create a mass seperation, but it instead allows people to feel better about supporting their community. It also shows that Neowin is a community when the most frequest posters to the forums and etc. actually show they donate. Its one of those good for adoption things, that in turn would foster more people to donate. Good Idea Keep It!.

#4 TheReaperMan on 28 Mar 2003 - 11:11

fine, as long as it helps keep the site running, and please no popup/popunders ever if possible

#5 Apollo on 28 Mar 2003 - 11:20

/me supports the option

(1 reply) #6 505 on 28 Mar 2003 - 11:32

Now, should i feel guilty that i have the proxomitron running? Blocks all ads on this site. mmm, moral dilemma, i don't like ads, but like neowin...

#6.1 Jstphish on 28 Mar 2003 - 17:50

Yeah, I am in the same boat. I never see ads period. I love Neowin so maybe I will consider bypassing the proximitron when I use the site ... hmmmm. Then again, I would rather donate something and not have to see ads. It's a moral dilemma I suppose. I think Neowin would recover the cost of running their site for Invision if they implemented this idea. Another thing, if you implement "member services" you will destroy the communityas it is now known. In other words, it's a terrible idea [b]Neobond[/b].

(1 reply) #7 Mr. Black on 28 Mar 2003 - 12:45

I see no ads...AdSubtract has my back

Anyhow, I'd much rather see something like a PayPal donation system or something rather than Advertising. Click-thru's pay so little and it won't help with your bandwidth problem. Many members have offered support including Webspace, Bandwidth, etc. when Neowin was changing hosts often, so what's to stop them now from giving a few bucks?

I think a voluntary donation system is much better suited and see how it goes before you jump directly into advertising that pays so little.

#7.1 Redmak on 28 Mar 2003 - 14:08

It pays alright as long as we get enough hits and people don't block the ads

(1 reply) #8 dougkinzinger on 28 Mar 2003 - 13:19

banners are fine, but why do we have to have such white trashy banners like 'watkins networking' for 133 years, work from home online or offline', i mean how in the heck?? that is very stupid.

Last edited by 12452 on 28 Mar 2003 - 18:48

#8.1 DsnBehind on 28 Mar 2003 - 16:57

[QUOTE] ...that is so gay. [/QUOTE] Awwww... I thought we had gotten beyond that way of thinking... Oh well.

(2 replies) #9 xStainDx on 28 Mar 2003 - 13:44

Anyone Who is talking about the DONATION SYSTEM. End Conversation Now.

If this Web Site CANNOT BE RUN FREE It will GO DOWN. Neobond Will Never ask you for money, nor ever put a "Pay Pal" icon on anywhere near this place.

#9.1 Spyder on 28 Mar 2003 - 14:36

considering neobond's comment in 1.1, he doesn't seem steadfast against the option as you seem to think he is. its not a "if neowin is not free, we're not here" thing anymore. you're running on old information

#9.2 leebobs on 28 Mar 2003 - 15:19

I would rather donate than lose Neowin

#10 scrAp on 28 Mar 2003 - 13:55

I know I'm a nobody here...but in the past year I've seen this site be shut down...wrong words...maybe change servers...whatever you wanna call it...how many times? hope you plan on a weekly charge if that's what you decide

#11 FuseWerx on 28 Mar 2003 - 14:06

I'll donate $50 right now if you let me run a banner ad for a week. Tasteful, corporate, and clean.

#12 Edge on 28 Mar 2003 - 14:45

I've been here at Neowin for a good while, and the ads system implemented by Neobond have not affected me in the least. So if he wants to place some more here and there, it's no problem with me because it is helping the site. I also think that the donation idea is pretty cool since those who want to and can afford to will now be able to support their favorite site. Just my 2 cents and a half.

(2 replies) #13 mrogers1113 on 28 Mar 2003 - 15:17

The ads are fine, anything you need to keep Neowin running is cool. However, I [b][i]STRONGLY[/i][/b] oppose the creation of special features for members who pay. That would indeed create an undesireable heirarchy among the members, and would serve no purpose at all other than to divide us. I DO support donations, through PayPal. I'm just a poor college student, but I tell you right now I woudl gladly donate what I could to Neowin, and I wouldn't expect any special treatment in return. Neowin IS what I get in return. I expect many members feel this way. This is a fantastic site. Please don't create a division among those who can pay and those who can't.

#13.1 timdorr on 28 Mar 2003 - 15:55

We're not talking anything big though, stuff you'd probably pay for elsewhere, such as a member chat room, file hosting, stuff like that. We're not looking to create a big members-only section of the site, only stuff supplemental that isn't always neccessary for some people, but is justified in charging for. Look at www.arstechnica.com for an example... Edit: Think of it as donation with perks

#13.2 mrogers1113 on 28 Mar 2003 - 20:26

lol, ok that's one way to think of it.

It's just that the first thing I pictured when I read that was a "Paying Members Only" forum or something like that, and that would NOT be cool. But some additional forum options, maybe different color stars or something, some sort of recognition, wouldn't be too bad. Long live Neowin!

(1 reply) #14 Ki||er on 28 Mar 2003 - 15:31

What ever keeps this great site up is fine with me. I will click them once a day

I would only do this for my homepage page

#14.1 Neobond on 28 Mar 2003 - 22:27

Thanks

I appreciate those comments

#15 Yvo on 28 Mar 2003 - 15:41

I personally think ads that are nonintrusive are ok. I for one don't use a popup blocker and hate sites with popups (that annoying repetitive IE click you hear with popups already give me a cringe). I love the paypal idea. Some sites already use this system (Asusboards.com is one site with a "burn rate") They won't be paying you Neobond but for the survival of Neowin, which in my opinion, is a whole different reason.

#16 net-cruizer on 28 Mar 2003 - 15:47

Cool. Nothing wrong with a banner ad. There always was one there anyways, so now a few different ones show up, no big deal.

#17 whistlerxp on 28 Mar 2003 - 16:08

PayPal would be a good idea, as it works internationally.

#18 tanshu on 28 Mar 2003 - 16:09

I agree with guys up there ... banner ads are no problem, but plz no popups/unders and also no spl features for paying members. Although I do not post much, I really love the site and keep chekcing 4 news every hour or so and also the forums. Spl features for paying members would create sort of different classes in forums, the haves and the have-nots. This is not a good idea. IMHO.

(1 reply) #19 Germano on 28 Mar 2003 - 16:42

Could "gold" members be banned as "normal" members are?

#19.1 Spyder on 28 Mar 2003 - 20:44

absolutely. the rules don't change.

#20 DsnBehind on 28 Mar 2003 - 16:46

I love NeoWin, but when it comes to ads, they just take too long to load at 56k. Thank the Lode for the free and convenient HOSTS file.

#21 xpablo on 28 Mar 2003 - 17:38

How about selling Neowin T-shirts and coffee mugs etc. @ cafepress ? keep the banner ad too, that doesn't bother me.

#22 jesterzwild on 28 Mar 2003 - 18:34

Well in my opinion it comes down to this, you do what you have to do to keep the site running without alienating the members. I think all the ideas are great with the sole exception of board/site policy exemptions (read no word filters, etc.). I also don't see the problem with payed members being recognized in some way, as they obviously are being proactive in supporting Neowin. Obviously some may not have the funds or ability to pay for a membership, so there has to be some kind of balance there, where non-paying members are not alienated. Also if everyone hasn't noticed, there already is a hierarchy based on post count, join date, user group (mod, admin, etc), and various other factors that aren't really related to the person. Life is a hierarchy, it's human nature to create them, so creating a paid membership option is not going to affect that as much as most of you seem to think. The only way it would is if non-paying members are limited in such a way to make in unfair. Balance is key. A Paypal button would be a great idea too, and as someone already mentioned, the reward of Neowin being is enough. The least some of you can do is unblock the ads on Neowin. Of course that might require some sort of notion of respect.

Last edited by 5410 on 28 Mar 2003 - 18:42

(2 replies) #23 zionath on 28 Mar 2003 - 19:09

i don't see adverts anyway because of zone alarm pro so it don't boother me... but wha am wondering is... i blocked em... so does that mean the adverts don't get counted for neowin???

#23.1 gfd on 28 Mar 2003 - 19:56

[neoquote=#23.0 by zionath]i don't see adverts anyway because of zone alarm pro so it don't boother me... but wha am wondering is... i blocked em... so does that mean the adverts don't get counted for neowin???[/neoquote] yes

#23.2 zionath on 29 Mar 2003 - 00:49

guess i gotta unblock neowin then....

#24 eSouL on 28 Mar 2003 - 19:57

why is the banner ad gone now?

#25 BeeJay on 28 Mar 2003 - 23:40

[URL=http://www.radioio.com]radioio[/URL], my favorite Internet Radio Station just made it so the banner ads don't get displayed for users who have donated. That might be a nice and simple way to say thank you to those who donate without the controversy.

#26 Jay on 29 Mar 2003 - 12:03

For a "paid" member group (if you go that way), I'd recommend simply making a private forum that only the members that donated/mods/admin have read access to with relaxed rules. I wouldn't recommend giving board-wide "extra-privileges", as this would be unfair to the regular members, but a forum would be a nice way to say "thank you" and it wouldn't affect the regular members, because they wouldn't even see it

#27 nacs on 29 Mar 2003 - 21:45

I'm completely OK with this. Discretely placed banners are always fine in my book. It's only those damn popups/popunders that I hate. Fortunately I use Mozilla so I never have to see a single unwanted popup though.

#28 theprotege on 30 Mar 2003 - 16:50

banners...cool, i'll click a few member services?...bahhh

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