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Judge shows doubts about MS-Java order

Daniel Fleshbourne   on 04 April 2003 - 10:09 · 12 comments & 498 views

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A federal appeals court judge on Thursday expressed serious doubts about a lower-court order requiring Microsoft to incorporate Sun Microsystems’ Java programming language in the Windows operating system. Judge Paul Niemeyer, one of the three judges hearing Microsoft's appeal, sharply questioned whether the must-carry preliminary injunction was needed to prevent imminent harm to Sun and the Java program while a trial was conducted. Niemeyer, who dominated questioning during an hour of presentations from both sides, also criticized the legal basis of the injunction issued late last year by U.S. District Judge J. Frederick Motz in Baltimore.

The injunction, put on hold by the appeals court, was based on findings that Microsoft was illegally maintaining a monopoly via the Windows operating system for personal computers. But Niemeyer said Java was “middleware” rather than an operating system and that the injunction should have rested on a monopoly extension claim. Sun attorney Rusty Day tried to argue the distinction was not consequential under antitrust law, and in any case, Sun sold server software that directly competed with Windows.

“If that's your theory...it seems to me the District Court missed it all,” Niemeyer said. Santa Clara, Calif.-based Sun charges that Microsoft has tried to sabotage Java, which can run on a variety of operating systems, because it threatens the dominance of the Windows OS. Sun, which is seeking $1 billion in damages, charges Microsoft's acts against Java include polluting a version of the software and dropping it from Windows XP. There was no indication when the appeals court might rule.

View: The full story
News source: ZDNet


The settlement, endorsed in November by U.S. District Judge ColleenKollar-Kotelly in November, resolved the federal government's charges that Microsoft abused its monopoly in personal computer operating systems.

Terms of the settlement were designed to give computer makers greater freedom to feature rival browsers such as AOL Time Warner Inc.'s Netscape Navigator, as well as other non-Microsoft software, by allowing them to hide some Microsoft icons on the Windows desktop.

Microsoft is prohibited from retaliating under the settlement against computer makers who choose to feature non-Microsoft products. Nor could it enter into agreements that require the exclusive support of some Microsoft software.

Mike Pettit, a spokesman for Procomp, an anti-Microsoft computer industry trade group, said the latest modification was minor. He called it "a complete waste of time and effort and has nothing to do with restoring competition."

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#1 JnCoKiLLa on 04 Apr 2003 - 10:31
I hope this means they won't try forcing that horrable thing Sun calls Java down hour thouts
#2 TheReaperMan on 04 Apr 2003 - 10:57
yeah, i mean are they going to make sun then use .net in there os?, wmp9, dx9 etc,lol
#3 Sickmyduck on 04 Apr 2003 - 11:16
wasn't this already posted earlier.... http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=10013&category=main Do we really need to post it twice?
#4 Avenger on 04 Apr 2003 - 14:26
Good, tell it to em Judge.
(4 replies) #5 Tager on 04 Apr 2003 - 18:05
[QUOTE]Sun, which is seeking $1 billion in damages, charges Microsoft's acts against Java include polluting a version of the software and dropping it from Windows XP.[/QUOTE] wait, wasn't it Sun that sued MS a while ago to [I]remove[/I] java from the Windows OS'es??!! if so, shouldn't that point come up in cases like this?
#5.1 Zatko55 on 04 Apr 2003 - 18:34
Sun sued because MS was including their own vm which wasn't compatible with real Java and was breaking Sun's write once, run anywhere platform. It caused irreparable harm to Java on the desktop side as shown with comments in these forums. Most people blamed Java for applets and applications that wouldn't work when indeed it was their ms vm that was causing all the problems.
#5.2 madjo on 04 Apr 2003 - 19:54
sadly though, is the java engine Sun delivers not so good, since that one cripples certain MS VM sites. It goes both ways of course
#5.3 MZatko55 on 06 Apr 2003 - 00:14
GAY! Do you not understand anything? Sun's is the standard. MS made a vm and devlopment kit that was never certified. Developers and users were not supposed to use it. The MS vm introduced platform (windows) specific code into its vm (Illegal in javaland). What if Sun made a version of the .net platform that was almost exactly similar to the microsoft one, but if you used Sun development kit to make .net applications, sometimes it would work if you ran the app on a microsoft platform and sometimes it wouldn't?
#5.4 JaggedFlame on 06 Apr 2003 - 00:55
How the hell is Sun's VM the standard? And then you guys just turn around and complain how IE shouldn't be a standard, or Windows shouldn't be a standard? Please. Sun [i]can[/i], as it stands, make its own implementation of the .NET CLR. It's just a matter of how many people want to use it. Mono's an example of this on Linux. And if more people chose MSJVM in your scenario, then it obviously had some kind of hook that made people want to use it. Why doesn't Sun improve on that instead of constantly moaning about something that happened years ago? Sun's JRE still sucks, and they've had the chance to improve it for years, regardless of what MS may have done.
#6 daveoc64 on 05 Apr 2003 - 12:26
I used the Sun Java program and it messed up my Windows XP to the point where I couldn't use the Internet. I had to format and start again. It also takes longer to load than MS Java VM on my PC.
#7 Jason on 05 Apr 2003 - 17:27
I use Windows XP SP1a with no java installed at all and thats the way its staying.
#8 prashidi on 07 Apr 2003 - 06:18
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