Neowin.net - MSN Messenger 6: No More Messenger Plus!?

MSN Messenger 6: No More Messenger Plus!?

Posted by Quick Reply on 23 May 2003 - 16:56 · 59 comments & 6020 views

Messenger Plus! is a freeware program that uses API to add many useful features to MSN Messenger. It has built a strong reputation over the years and is used by many (such as the Neowin Admins), who are in the know about software.

However, with the leak of MSN Messenger 6, the future of Messenger Plus! has been put in doubt, because instant message windows no longer use the standard controls, which are currently essential for plus to work.

Messenger Plus! Creator, Patchou, says "I'm also 100% sure that Microsoft removed plus! support on purpose. It's not just "we updated and oh, too bad, your software can't work anymore".... they did some things especially to avoid Plus! to function".

Another concern put forward by the MSN Messenger Community is that MSN has stolen one of the most popular features of Plus!, Chat Logging. Although it's great that it's now a standard feature, it's not-so-great that they are making it hard for Plus! to continue it's development.

Plus! is currently working on a solution for this; when MSN Messenger 5 was released there were some changes which required a few changes to the Plus! code.

View: Messenger Plus! Homepage

View: Mess With MSN Messenger (MSN Messenger community frontend)

News source: Messenger Plus! Forums

Hello everybody,

I have a good and a bad news. The good news: I just installed a beta version of MSN Messenger 6 and let me tell you that it's a great update! The bad news: apparently, Microsoft did some things on purpose to avoid Messenger Plus! to work, which theorically means that this summer, the release of MSN Messenger 6 will sign the death certificate of Messenger Plus!. I'm going to try to work on a sollution to go around the problem but I'm not very optimistic.

I'll keep you informed,
Patchou

Well, Messenger Plus! was one of the very first add-ons done for Messenger so it's not like I was the one who took the ideas of others. And in any case, there's a lot of feature in Plus! you won't be able to find in any other add-on, for different technical reason.

I want to be clear on one point: I'm also 100% sure that Microsoft did that on purpose. It's not just "we updated and oh, too bad, your software can't work anymore".... they did some things especially to avoid Plus! to function.

For those who are interested in technical mambo jambo, here is the problem: the chat windows of Messenger 6 are now constitued of only one child window, a custom class made by Microsoft. It means that Plus! do not see any edit box, button or whatever other control. I don't know how they did it but it's like these control do not exist.

Still working on the problem, I'll keep you informed. What I'll probably do next week is release a small update so that, at least, Plus! disables itself correctly when ran with Messenger 6.

Patchou

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(1 reply) #1 Posted by m0 on 23 May 2003 - 17:01: I really hope Patchou can do this msn plus! r0x and i think ill stick with 4.7 if this aint possible m0.

(1 reply) #2 Posted by cub-x on 23 May 2003 - 17:09: or get Trillian.. and a log for the chats has been around for ages in ICQ and Trillian otoh.. it just sux from MS

#3 Posted by net-cruizer on 23 May 2003 - 17:10: Sh*t happens, lol!!! And yeah, chat logging has been around for a very long time. Like 7 years or so for ICQ anyways.

Last edited by 8424 on 23 May 2003 - 17:15

#4 Posted by Spyder on 23 May 2003 - 17:12: out of curiosity, what functionality does the current version of MSN Plus add to the current MSN Messenger that MSN 6 doesn't have?

#5 Posted by Joshie on 23 May 2003 - 17:12: Something bizarre about calling the implementation of a chat-log feature "theft". It's not like Plus innovated in that regard. I've been logging chats since...uh...um...what was that ancient thing called...oh yeah, dialup BBSes.

#6 Posted by Mystr-.-Ajay on 23 May 2003 - 17:13: all that work having to come to an end??? surely not, we believe in patchou dont we???

#7 Posted by mbg on 23 May 2003 - 17:14: I respect the work done on Messenger Plus! and appreciate it (I did try it, though I don't use it), but I also appreciate Microsoft's additions to the core Messenger product and that I will not have to use any add-ons to get functionality that I'd like to have. The removal of Chat APIs is definitely a negative, though, unless it was done for security reasons. Chat logging is not a particularly innovative feature. It's something that really should have been in there from the beginning, other clients do it, and now they have added it to their own product (and better yet, it does it in an easily interpretable data format)

#8 Posted by Dart on 23 May 2003 - 17:22: That's a bummer

(3 replies) #9 Posted by net-cruizer on 23 May 2003 - 17:23: One of the main reasons why I liked Windows/MSN Messenger, is that it didn't have chat logging. A long time ago, when I used ICQ, I never realized it even kept track of messeges till I found out my girlfriend had been snooping, and freaked out at me. So I turned that feature off when I noticed the option, but always had to convince her that something was wrong and that feature didn't work any more, lol. So when I started using Windows Messenger, I was happy that it didn't log chats. Oh well, I have the feature off in MSN Mess. 6, and she doesn't need to know if it has chat logging or not, lol.

(6 replies) #10 Posted by djze on 23 May 2003 - 17:25: [I]MSN has stolen one of the most popular features of Plus!, Chat Logging[/I] This statement is pretty harsh i think, does Plus! have the patent of chat logging?

#11 Posted by smek on 23 May 2003 - 17:25: /me misses /me already

(1 reply) #12 Posted by longwilli on 23 May 2003 - 17:27: i hope they do sort it out there are some features i really like that where in plus!

(1 reply) #13 Posted by jkuy9 on 23 May 2003 - 17:35: Plus! was (is) a good program (addon) however it was inevitable that MS would add the popular features that Plus! added to MSN. I think before people start saying "MS did this on purpose" Patchou should get in contact with the MSN Messenge development team and see if they can come to some sort of agreement on the future of Plus!. If MS have made it so there can be no addons, etc to MSN Messenger then that is up to them, after all it is their program and they can do what they want. It may seem unfair (and in some ways it is) however it is Microsoft's decision.

#14 Posted by dougkinzinger on 23 May 2003 - 17:38: i hope they get plus to work....it rocks!

(1 reply) #15 Posted by Windy on 23 May 2003 - 17:47: This is just another part of the MSN Messenger API story - first the programs main API wasn't exposed to XP users (MSN Messenger 5 - don't know if that's sorted with this release) then they remove the chat window API - it's rediculous as people won't be able to develop around the program. On the other hand, Microsoft has every right to include any feature they want in new releases, and I'm happy they're doing so as I would rather have it all incorporated than use an add-on such as Plus!

#16 Posted by Elliot334 on 23 May 2003 - 18:05: Well, it is possible that they stopped support for add-ons because of all the stupid flooders and lagers people were releasing, or the fact that some disabled the MSN Ad. But I think people are sort of jumping to conclusions also, remember when MSN 5 came out and many people were like "hey they arnt releasing the API! Micro$oft hates Plus! DIE M$!!!!!111" Then it turned out that MS was just lazy and forget to update the download for the new API. And MSN6 is still only a leaked BETA! I really don't think that Microsoft decided to waste its resources coding MSN 6 in such a way that even Patchou doesn’t know how they did it, just to stop the "Plus!" add-on from working. [I]*Microsoft Execs: "Muhahahahah"*[/I] I just think it's a bit early to bring out the "MSN = Anti-Christ" banners, lets just wait and see what happens...

#17 Posted by kioria on 23 May 2003 - 18:07: Its ridiculous in first place not to having had features that Plus! offered to MSN users. I mean, it's about time for Microsoft to realise that its not only Windows and Office + other Server/Dev packages that require user-based thoughts. MSN Messenger also needs a thought about what users like the most, and what they want. No wonder the Plus! was so successful in past years with some shitty ass Microsoft program. Looking forward to MSN Messenger 6. Forget about Windows Messenger 5, its no where near as good as MSN Msng 5.

#18 Posted by wrex on 23 May 2003 - 18:38: As much as I love MSN6, I do hope MSG Plus will eventually work on it. I really miss the irc commands...

#19 Posted by Dessimat0r on 23 May 2003 - 19:09: API is not needed, just hook onto the process and intercept calls.

(1 reply) #20 Posted by npierri on 23 May 2003 - 19:13: I love msg plus! and i dont understand why Microsoft avoids the use of this kind of software. At least they have to incorporate all msg plus features in MSN messenger but: there is no boss protection there is no events logs there is no "per contact" sounds logs are only saved in xml there is no text recall etc is there any posibility that this features are soooooooooo complicated that microsoft cant add it? The first thing you have to do when u want to make a program is to know what people wants so... who are the people they are listen to? Ill keep msn 5

#21 Posted by antareus on 23 May 2003 - 20:28: This is why you don't hook into existing programs, eventually the host turns on you. Write your own chat program.

#22 Posted by eaglebtc on 23 May 2003 - 21:23: the boss protection and the quick /shortcuts were the best features of msgplus

#23 Posted by WindowsXP on 23 May 2003 - 21:37: This is prolly to help prevent bots 'n stuff

(1 reply) #24 Posted by session™ on 23 May 2003 - 22:03: just my comment: 1. everybody wants ms to improve on their products. now they add a new feature to improve messenger and people think they steal it from msn plus? that's kinda harsh. 2. i myself am a msn plus user and i think it does a great job. i believe Patchou is skilled enough to find a [I]walkaround[/I]!

#25 Posted by ironcladlou on 23 May 2003 - 22:35: The APIs were removed from MSN Messenger 6 for security reasons, so that virii and worms would not be able to leverage MSN-M to propogate. Microsoft DID NOT remove them on purpose, or so that Messenger Plus! would lose funtionality... and it's pretty moronic to even think that they would that. However, I do feel that the MSN Messnger developers can/could be a bit more creative and provide the APIs AND some enhanced security measures. A scriptable IM client IS a really great feature!

(3 replies) #26 Posted by surfichris on 23 May 2003 - 23:43: This is soooo un true. Its not that the messenger API's have been removed. Its just that they have restructured chat windows, because all the objects in the window (rtb, etc) now show up as one window not their separate controls. Now, a solution is being worked on.. No, we dont know when but all us Plus! faithfuls are giving our support to patchou. [QUOTE] Plus! might be able to sort out these issues, they had a simlar hurdle when MSN Messenger 5 was released, which was overcome by having to rewrite the entire program [/QUOTE] They are also false claims, none of plus had to be rewritten, the code where it hooks onto messenger just had to be added to support MSN Messenger 5

#27 Posted by Quick Reply on 24 May 2003 - 00:07: i wrote this article for neowin to make sure that msn knows that we're watching and do care about this.

#28 Posted by kioria on 24 May 2003 - 00:27: Not to mention that some of the stuff in Plus! is not neccessary. It only add to "crazy" irc type of colours, which I do not like. You see little 10 year-old kids with red font and blue background trying to annoy me... thats not good.

#29 Posted by Xenobane on 24 May 2003 - 01:35: Plus! had been a pain the in arse for me. I tried it out once but had removed it due to some stability issue. It makes some versions of windows messenger crash, I been recieving msg from friends asking why their messenger keep crashing and most times than not, they installed Plus! Another thing is that those nick with (128,00,255) wadever pissed me off big time. Its really stupid, I wont call it innovative. Its not like those irc functions make live easier or saving a chat by clicking File "Save" or "Save as" shorten your lifespan. And heck, messenger was supposed to be for "short msg/chat" and if you want a irc functions, you freaking use a IRC CLIENT. And geez, chat saving function was in messenger ever since it was released. Its not very ground breaking by making it [B]auto[/B].

#30 Posted by Scorbing on 24 May 2003 - 01:39: You know you I figure this: With as much money as Microsoft has, why the hell do they insist on putting ads on Messenger? It is the only turn-off I can see. Ads are useless and slow the application down. As long as Patchou can make his application kill the ads I am happy. Chat logging? Who cares about that crap.

(1 reply) #31 Posted by bits on 24 May 2003 - 02:52: [QUOTE]the chat windows of Messenger 6 are now constitued of only one child window, a custom class made by Microsoft. It means that Plus! do not see any edit box, button or whatever other control. I don't know how they did it but it's like these control do not exist.[/QUOTE] sounds like msn 6 is running a skinning engine.

(1 reply) #32 Posted by Kieran on 24 May 2003 - 08:59: Yes, but with any custom class that you program, you have to have ways of communicating with it otherwise it will not ever do anything. There will be public methods implemented that allow control over this *hidden* edit box, its just that now you will have to go through this method rather than communicating directly with the edit box. The only problem at the moment is that we dont know what these public methods are. At some point, Microsoft will probabily make this knowledge public as they have done with all the other messengers before this. Failing that, its only a matter of time before someone stumbles across the correct methed. I am 100% sure that given time this can be sorted!

#33 Posted by Bless HaSHem on 24 May 2003 - 12:02: For some werrd resone plus works for me but msn messenger 6 doesnt i can do anything in it also i cant get signed in

#34 Posted by Bless HaSHem on 24 May 2003 - 12:12: The msn dude siting down on his chair picking his nose thinking how am i going to make msn messenger better. a)Look b)games c)file sharing d)ummm chat logging ....

#35 Posted by SanGreal on 25 May 2003 - 01:37: Thats as stupid as saying With as much money as Microsoft has, why don't they give it all away. Messenger costs money to run; it would be stupid of Microsoft to not try and recoup some of the loss.

#36 Posted by jolhof on 25 May 2003 - 04:40: Messenger Plus! still works just fine witrh the new MSN Messenger 6. The features like, transparency, ad-banner removal, maximum massage size, and a lot more. Why do some people keep claiming that it won't work with MSN Messenger 6. Just because messenger now has the capability to log chat events, which plus could do way before 6, doesn't mean that Plus is over with. Keep on going guys, do not give in!

Jolhof

(1 reply) #37 Posted by BrY on 25 May 2003 - 06:44: Is there anything just to get rid of the stupid tabs on the left pane for MSN6? I find I NEVER EVER use those stupid tabs to begin wit' UTTERLY USELESS. I can use that extra space horizontally for the stupid ignorant people that make long ass names that stretch across the screen. Any help appreciated.

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