BRUSSELS--The European Commission said on Wednesday it intended to fine Microsoft for what it called continuing abuses of its dominant market position and force it to change the way it distributes its Media Player software. In its strongest statement yet in its long-running antitrust probe against the world's largest software company, the EU also said it could order Microsoft to open up the code for its computer server software to outside companies. An EU spokesman said the European Commission felt it had a strong case against Microsoft and the amount of the fine would be linked to the severity and duration of Microsoft's perceived offense.
"At this stage, we have so much evidence and we are in possession of such substantive a file that we believe any decision we take will withstand scrutiny of the European court,'' commission spokesman Tilman Lueder told a briefing. It accused Microsoft of leveraging its dominant position in media players, the software that plays movies and video on computers, and in low-end servers, which manage everything from Web sites to e-mail systems.
The EU said it was giving Microsoft a final chance to comment before it orders it to share crucial server software codes with competitors such as Sun Microsystems and Oracle and forces changes to the way it offers its media player, to the likely benefit of Real Networks and Apple Computer.
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News source: news.com
"At this stage, we have so much evidence and we are in possession of such substantive a file that we believe any decision we take will withstand scrutiny of the European court,'' commission spokesman Tilman Lueder told a briefing. It accused Microsoft of leveraging its dominant position in media players, the software that plays movies and video on computers, and in low-end servers, which manage everything from Web sites to e-mail systems.
The EU said it was giving Microsoft a final chance to comment before it orders it to share crucial server software codes with competitors such as Sun Microsystems and Oracle and forces changes to the way it offers its media player, to the likely benefit of Real Networks and Apple Computer.
View: The full story News source: news.com
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"It accused Microsoft of leveraging its dominant position in media players...and in low-end servers, which manage everything from Web sites to e-mail systems"
How many web sites are hosted on linux/uninx boxes running Apache? Loads. This is just becoming MS bashing for the sack of it.
They've done nothing except extremely good business and have become the envy of the entire corporate world.
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The American goverment was doing the right thing until Bush came to power, because Microsoft is an American company, the goverment didn't want to do anything to harm them, even if it benefits the people in the long run, the EU on the other hand is thinking of whats best for the people, and more competions is better.
Look at Internet Explore, since Microsoft had little to no competion, they've done little to no work to inprove it, and thats the problem, Microsoft would do the same thing in all it's software if we let them, Microsoft have put themself in the position where they need to be forced to open up to competion because they are in control of something that too many people relie on.
IE hasn't changed, fine, but for me and a lot of people I know the changes in Mozilla et al are a step backwards. No, most normal people don't care about tabbed browsing or mouse gestures or anything like that. I'll stick with IE, thanks.
As for promoting competition, it's not the government's responsibility to do so if Microsoft has done nothing wrong. It's the competitors'. You don't go around like an idiot suing every legit corporation in the interest of "competition," even if competition is good. Use some common sense.
NT OS's are a complete ground up build nothing to do with 9x what so ever the only similarity is the Windows name and the GUI.
So don't worry even if the competition dies. Windows and Office products will evolve.
Last edited by 22812 on 06 Aug 2003 - 19:03
Eeh, excuse me, but that's exactly what many do. Popup blocking isn't too bad either. But go ahead and let your multiple browser windows clutter the task bar.
And how on earth can it be a step BACKWARDS if they only offer more features?
And how on earth can it be a step BACKWARDS if they only offer more features?
You're exactly the type of person I'm talking about. No, normal users don't really care if they have multiple tabs or multiple taskbar buttons. Big deal. Windows XP groups them anyway, so clicking on a tab or clicking on a taskbar button has the same effect. Popup blocking can be achieved through a number of add-on programs that a lot of people have installed anyway (Googlebar, Ad-Aware, Norton Internet Security), so that's not a big issue either.
Tabs are a personal issue, plain and simple. I prefer having taskbar buttons because I don't have to hunt around for my window all the time. It's easier to Alt+Tab among three different windows (not all of which are the browser) instead of figuring out when to Alt and when to Ctrl+Tab. If there are too many, they don't clutter anything because Windows XP has taken care of that.
And yes, it is a step backwards for me. They don't respect proper UI guidelines, the widgets aren't completely native, which makes it slower, it doesn't deal with the middle mouse button correctly... I could go on forever. They put in a couple extra features that I don't really care about, and end up ruining the small things that I've taken for granted with IE.
Ricknl, thats true that Microsoft are there own competitor, but thats not the problem, the problem would be Microsoft dictateing how fast or slow technolgy moves in the OS department, as well as that, Microsoft will hold back on there upgrades and not put all the fetures they could of put, simple because they know they can get away with it and milk us for more money and then come up with a upgrade of something they could of done before but didn't all in the name of milking us all dry, the only thing stoping that happening is competions, not Microsoft, because if Microsoft could, they'll bump up the price on all there software, even the ones they give away for free,lucky for us, Linux is around to make sure that doesn't happen.
Windows would still evolve even without any competions, but it would evolve much slowly because they know they can, think about it with cars, how much would they evolveif one company had say 95% of the market?, well put it this way, I'm willing to bet they'll be no where as good as they are now, competions is the key for better products, Linux is Microsoft main rival, a rival that Microsoft can't kill and buy out, and utimately, something you can't kill will utimately win, after all, remember the PC in the 70's and 80's when people gived it no hope?, not even IBM did, and look at it now, I get the feeling that Linux is going down the same path.
Jagged, I've got one thing to say to you, your cluthing at straws, only a fool would say tabbed browsing is not a good feture, anyhow, theres two things I'm thinking about with you, thats either your paid off by Microsoft to come up with all this rubbish or that your income relies on Windows doing well, so I don't expect good remarks from people like that, that would be like Intel saying AMD chips are better then there own lol, it doesn't happen, so I don't expect it to happen with people like you.
Did you read a word I said? For me, it's a step backwards. I don't care what the hell you think. It is not a step forwards for everyone. And in my work environment, people agree with me that tabbed browsing is a pain.
Opening up 3 or 4 browser windows is not innately inefficient. What if I gave you a program that puts all of your windows, no matter what program they are, into one container? So that your taskbar is ultimately useless and all you can do is sit around pressing Ctrl+Tab? There are obviously two extremes, and how far to the left or right goes is one's user preference.
No, I don't think it's efficient. I'll even paste what I wrote so your illiterate ass has another go at it:
"I prefer having taskbar buttons because I don't have to hunt around for my window all the time. It's easier to Alt+Tab among three different windows (not all of which are the browser) instead of figuring out when to Alt and when to Ctrl+Tab. If there are too many, they don't clutter anything because Windows XP has taken care of that."
There you go. I don't like tabbed browsing. If Microsoft put it in IE, I would turn it off.
If you like tabbed browsing, use it. Stop dragging the rest of us with you. And Rambo, stop forcing your goddamn opinion on me already. It gets old after a couple months.
Ah, yes, the typical "you must work for Microsoft" comment. Well, in my experience that only comes from idiots who can't come up with any other valid retort.
Rambo, I don't even work in a tech-related field. Stop shooting your mouth off.
Last edited by 820 on 07 Aug 2003 - 04:09
Don't know how you can say tabbed browsing is a pain, it's more of a pain to keep messing about trying to find which window to open up on the bottom task bar to get to the right page, your cluthing at straws Jagged, you might as well admit it, beside, if you don't like tabbed browsing, not like it needs to be used in Mozilla, but I'm willing to bet that everyone will use it.
Why do you seem to get the inpression that tabbed browsing is slower?, it's much faster, all the pages are there tabbed at the top, easy to access, even easierly named, doing it the windows way is a mess because of the names and even worse when you have it where it locks all the pages in one tab.
Jagged, you are the only person I've ever heard from both sides, Linux and Windows side thats said tabbed browsing is worse, even all the Windows lot will admit it's a better feture, so less of the bull and admit, your a Microsoft drone
So you say. I can't imagine how you'd know a thing like that.
No, idiot, it's not. It's easier for me to look at the titles of the windows on the bottom and click on the right one. It is not easier for me to first open the browser, then open the correct tab. Two clicks versus one click. This isn't rocket science.
Besides, hunting around for the button in the taskbar and hunting around for the correct tab is the same exact goddamn thing. What do you think that tab bar is, if not a second taskbar?
It's also easier for me to compare data in two web pages with two separate windows, not two tabs. Get a grip. There are places where tabs are just plain inefficient. Do you honestly mean to say that tabs are perfect for everyone, for every application? Who's brainwashed now?
I have DeadAIM installed and I don't like tabbed IM windows either. Why? Because when I get a notification from one window, it flashes. By itself. I don't have to go hunting around for the right IM.
If you think the way you use computers is the way everyone uses computers, then you're certainly right about brainwashing. Pertaining to yourself, that is.
BECAUSE I'VE USED IT AND IT WAS SLOWER FOR ME.
God, what a moron. I thoght you were stupid before, but attacking my personal choice is just retarded.
Yeah, and we all know how much your opinion matters to me. For all I know, you've talked to two people from both sides. Or one person from the Windows side and eighty from the Linux side.
Like I said, everyone at my workplace prefers normal browsing. If you have a problem with that, there's nothing you can do. People will use what they want to. Maybe your folks prefer tabbed browsing. You know what? That's great. Now let's keep it that way.
For the last time, stop forcing your goddamn opinion on me. I will use what I want to.
Last edited by 820 on 08 Aug 2003 - 03:36
Jagged, you are cluthing at straws again, most people when browsing the net have the browser open where they can see all the tabs at the top, meaning it's just one click, and beside, if you have it like you said where groups them, then thats two clicks, not one, so it's no diffrent then having tabs.
Jagged, you may not seem to realise this, but since 2000 and XP came out, people tend to run more things at the same time for longer, meaning the task bar gets clutertrd up, the tab browsing is to group the web pages within one web browser, which works out much better in speed and saving memory.
Jagged, you remind me of one of thoes people that will say rubbish anything thats Linux, it's OS, software, everything, you remind me of one of thoes people that once Linux takes over the market, you'll suddernly change your mind and start raving about Linux and it's software, theres many people like you in that.
Anyhow, calm down Jagged lol, jeez, yes it is my opinion, but to say Tabbed browsing is slower then the normal way is a laughable debate lol.
SoMexican, I'm not forceing anything on anyone, I'm just pointing out a fact, if you don't like it, tough.
Well, tough beans. Everyone I've talked to says tabbed browsing is a pain in the ass here.
The truth ought to be painfully obvious by now. TABBED BROWSING IS A PERSONAL PREFERENCE. THERE IS NO "DEBATE."
It only groups them when five or more windows are open. Until then, I don't have to open my browser and then open the correct tab. And unlike your bullsh*t "most people" assumption, I don't always have my browser open and active.
Of course, I shouldn't even be arguing with you about this because this is my personal preference.
What the hell is your point? If XP grouping does the same thing tabbed browsing does, why are you even talking about this?
Of course. If Linux takes over, I will use it. But I'm not allowed to state my opinion on why Linux is failing now?
And the idiotic thing about all this is that this has NOTHING to do with Linux. I'm talking about tabbed windows. Tabbed windows are not exclusive to Linux, they're not exclusive to Mozilla, they're everywhere. My IM client has the option of tabbed windows. I don't like them. Period. For you to start harping on my choice is a sign of idiocy.
Yes, it is indeed a laughable debate. The fact that it is a debate is laughable.
Bullsh*t. The only thing you're doing is forcing me to admit that tabbed browsing is universally faster for everyone. That's complete crap.
Thank god i live in free america.. i mean why should a succesful company stop bundling improvements on its own products... this is stupid...
Those Europeans (not all only the ones that are making this) think that people are stupid, people can go and download the player that fit with their personality...
If this is applied thy would have to bundle all players in the market not only the other big companies apple and real I mean all.. if they not do it it would be unfaily..
Imagine order your set of windows xp cds... 1 cd with the operating system and 5 cds of players, browsers, and messengers (aol gaim.....).. that would suck because they will charge you for the space in the cds..
If they do that they should apply the same concept to other markets.. i mean.. Palm will have to stop bundling programs in their palms because its unfair and hurts the market....GM would have to stop bundling Air conditioning systems in the cars because it hurts competition....
Burger king, Mc donalds will have to stop bundling mustard, ketchup in burguers because it hurts competition.....
Please..
They are not better than microsoft, they are hungry *******s in search of money
Do you honestly think Microsoft is the first or only company that bundles software products? That it's the first company that advertises to the majority? If so, you're an idiot. But that's nothing new, now is it.
You can't. You're just assuming that everyone who doesn't know about computers uses IE because they're forced to. Well, guess what. That's impossible to assume.
Last edited by 820 on 08 Aug 2003 - 03:24
Speak for yourself ese
Yea so? What's that tell us? Nothing! Like i said, speak for yourself. We don't all get brainwashed, there are PLENTY of people who can think fine for themselves without having someone influence their decision, so sorry if you're not one of them . And you know what, even if you are right about "every person on this planet" getting brainwashed, how does that prove anything? I can simply and freakin EASILY say that a lot of Linuxites have been brainwashed with anti-MS propaganda. Seriously, one of the most typical Linux user stereotypes (chunky whiteboy living in his mother's garage) comes from the fact that these kids sit there with their fantastic lil open source projects and their anti-bill gates posters.......what about THAT brainwashing? Like I said, if you're all against corp, you've been brainwashed my pasty rotund friend.
And speakin of washing, make sure you do it at least once a day, I can't stand talking to people about, of all things open source, when they reek of mountain dew and BO.....or should i say BS
Like every other software company, Microsoft developes solutions for consumers. Consumers are free to choose whatever combination of solutions best meet their needs. If Windows, Internet Explorer, and Media Player best suite those needs, and consumers freely choose them from a range of alternatives [and these alternatives do exist], what is the problem?
I'll tell you one thing. Microsoft didn't become the largest and most respected software company in the world by whining or throwing pitiful lawsuits at their competition. They innovated their way to success.
Hhhmmm....imagine that!
So basically we feel consumers are too lazy to actually go and dare I say it download the software on their own. Therefore were going to make the most popular OS include it's competitors software and talk about how it promotes competition.
Next we can promote "competition" by extending that idea into other realms, like:
-Including 2 cans of Pepsi in every Coke 6 pack so consumers can choose.
-Including 2 Shania Twain tracks on every Metallica disc so consumers have choice
-Force GAP to bundle a Calvin Klein T-shirt with every pair of GAP Jeans so Calvin has a more fair market share
-Including 7 minutes of Touched By An Angel in every episode of The Sopranos
This will make consumers happier then ever before, don'cha think?
That settles it. You're an idiot. I suspect I'm not the only one who's going to stop taking you seriously.
Milka are this minority of racists people who have discover Internet few month ago... and use it to say stupid thing.
Milka, try to learn and stop drinking milk ! it's seems to be not good for you... and for your brain, if you have one !
Last edited by 22325 on 07 Aug 2003 - 11:23
But all that aside, you're Hitler analogy sucks. People were forced to hail hitler, else they would end up like this:
You're not forced to like Microsoft. They're not going to kill you if you don't like them. And if you believe that they will.....well you've seen Antitrust waaaaaay too many times
And "deep down inside" i know reading Rambo's Ramble™ is whats bad for me.
Do I really make it seem like Microsoft doesn't care about anything but money, wow, must be something knew, when has a company ever really cared about anything but money?, very few if any, as you said, it's the money that makes the world go round, Microsoft are no diffrent then any company, greedy, and if they could, they'll take you to the cleaners.
Also, people wasn't forced to hail Hitler, many wanted to hail him, if no one rreally liked him then how did he have all that power?, you don't get that much power unless you have enough support from the people, if they all didn't like him, he would of been out on his arse along time before he did, the same with people like Saddam, they got to power because enough of the people wanted them in power, if no one wanted them in power, they wouldn't of gotten into power, after all, utimately, there power is there people, without them, they have little to nothing.
True that I'm not forced to use Microsoft to a degree, but Microsoft wants it where people relie on them so that they dictate terms and prices, people would have no choice but to pay if there was no rivals, thats how it goes, Microsoft knows that, it's called a monopoly, no one benefits but Microsoft.
OH NO! I LOSE! OH GOD OH GOD WHAT DO I DO OH GOD I DIDN'T READ HIS STUPID HITLER POST OH F*CK ALMIGHTY
Do I really make it seem like Microsoft doesn't care about anything but money, wow, must be something knew, when has a company ever really cared about anything but money?, very few if any, as you said, it's the money that makes the world go round, Microsoft are no diffrent then any company, greedy, and if they could, they'll take you to the cleaners.
Also, people wasn't forced to hail Hitler, many wanted to hail him, if no one rreally liked him then how did he have all that power?, you don't get that much power unless you have enough support from the people, if they all didn't like him, he would of been out on his arse along time before he did, the same with people like Saddam, they got to power because enough of the people wanted them in power, if no one wanted them in power, they wouldn't of gotten into power, after all, utimately, there power is there people, without them, they have little to nothing.
True that I'm not forced to use Microsoft to a degree, but Microsoft wants it where people relie on them so that they dictate terms and prices, people would have no choice but to pay if there was no rivals, thats how it goes, Microsoft knows that, it's called a monopoly, no one benefits but Microsoft.
Fool, I can rip your post apart so bad that you'll wish your mother would've had a freakin abortion.
Lets take an organized approach here...
1. Yes, people WERE forced to hail hitler....thats why he had a death squad. People who didn't hail hitler went to the gas chambers. Go read your cot daym history books chunky. 10% of Germany were real nazi supporters. Get a clue. And a toothbrush.
2. Do you grow your own food? No? Do you sew your own clothes or shoes? NO? Wait wait wait do you mine your own coal for energy, forge your own satellite dishes for communi.....wait what? NO? OHHHHH so what you're telling me is that you're just as much of a corporate whore as anyone else? Interesting. Ssooooo.....what you've told me is that here you are bashing corporate america/capitolism while you're sittin on your inflated butt drinking Mountain Dew™ ...........they should make a hypocrit smiley face.
3. Microsoft has never taken anyone to the cleaners. When I need to wash my clothes I drive myself to the cleaners. Oh by the way, wash your clothes, its a healthy habit, and maybe, just MAYBE people will like you more when you do
4. I'm not even gonna cover Hitler anymore, like I said anybody who knows their history would easily rip you a new one......like this (_O_)
5. Saddam? Now you're bringing in Saddam? Dude! SERIOUSLY LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!
6.
7. Microsoft doesn't monopolize sh*t. A true monopoly would mean there is no competition. Hey, has anybody heard of Linux? BSD? Solaris? If you're willing to talk about "people", I'll tell you from years of experience (not as many years of experience as bangin yo momma but close enough) that "people" don't WANT all the bloat that Linux and BSD offers. They want simplicity. Microsoft offers simplicity. Its that, yep you guessed it, Simple
8. Rivals? Ok now im totally convinced you've lived under a rock/in your mother's garage. Listen chunk, there are so freaking many rivals out there. YOU can become an MS rival too! Any chunk (hey like you!) sitting in his mom's garage with a computer and a good idea can put MS out of business any day. And its not just the open-source chunkies either, I mean MS has so much competition its disgusting. Sun, Real, AOL, Oracle, MySql AB, IBM.......holy crap man! These are MAJOR companies we are talking about!
9. People do not buy MS Products because they are forced to. They buy them because they are superior for what they need. Nuff said.
10. Say hi to your mom for me.
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