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PowerMac G5: a Desktop or Workstation?

malebolgia   on 21 September 2003 - 04:59 · 34 comments & 1390 views

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"An ongoing debate has been raging since the G5's announcement which asks that we define the G5 as either a "desktop" or "workstation" class computer". Editorial contributor Harry Rider believes that the fact that such a debate exists at all, is a major detractor to the advancement this new computer brings, and that the computer is not either/or, but instead, both a desktop AND workstation.

Since the introduction of Apple's G5, there has been a debate as to whether or not this new computer is in fact a "desktop" or "workstation" class computer. The argument by itself is a ridiculous one, as these titles are solely determined by the manor in which an individual uses the computer. Trying to differentiate between the two terms is a lesson in futility. Dictionary.com defines "workstation" as such: workstation n: a desktop computer that is conventionally considered to be more powerful than a microcomputer. If that definition isn't obscure, I don't know what is!

The fact that the debate exists at all, is a testament to the tenacity of those individuals who strive to to discredit Apple's retail efforts at every turn. The argument goes like this. If the G5 is regarded as "workstation", then Apple's "desktop" is then relegated to the company's G4 lineup. As we all know, the G4 is regarded by the masses (albeit inappropriately) as "massively underpowered" when compared to its x86 competition. If then the G4 is Apple's real "desktop" then the speed crown Apple took back with the G5 is supposedly lost.

News source: OS-News


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#1 plasticparadox on 21 Sep 2003 - 06:18
I think of it as a workstation.
#2 Gary_Player on 21 Sep 2003 - 06:32
Workstation. Duh. Dual-CPU, 64-bit processor, 8 gig of ram...sounds like a WICKED DV machine or a very pretty server
(4 replies) #3 mopper on 21 Sep 2003 - 06:37
who cares
#3.1 webfusion2k on 21 Sep 2003 - 06:56
i agree people dont no when to stop spliting hairs... Apples finaly got a great combination between hardware and software and you cant take that away from them.
#3.2 Fonze on 21 Sep 2003 - 08:37
the reason this comes up is because most apple benchmarks showing off the G5 are against "desktop" PCs. as in, PCs that qualify as home use computers. these benchmarks usually limit the scope of the results and leave out certain other CPUs, such as the opteron and Itanium. for best results, they should do a performance/price comparison to show off which is better.

why would someone want to show a G5 is better than a PC? better means more market share, more market share means more programs for Macs, more games and more apps. slowly gaining speed until the PC user is the minority and the Mac user can say he/she was right all along, and can justify their choice in computer. that's what this argument is all about, who is right. no one likes to be wrong, thus the mac vs pc war lives on
#3.3 frod on 21 Sep 2003 - 09:30
i never knew anyone that considered a dual 3.06 xeon to be a 'desktop'
#3.4 KCKitsune on 21 Sep 2003 - 10:43
Actually Fonze, cheaper means more market share (Betamax vs VHS). Apple should allow the clones to be made again. I would get Apple hardware if it was cheaper than what it is now.
#4 iomayho on 21 Sep 2003 - 07:33
this debate is nonsence...
(5 replies) #5 Chicane-UK on 21 Sep 2003 - 07:55
I guess I would consider it more of a workstation as Gary_Player said - i'd consider the term Desktop applicable to a basic system, designed for new users / general home use. The Powermac G5 has sooo much more power and capability than that so its a Workstation in my eyes.
#5.1 Knight' on 21 Sep 2003 - 08:33
So really, we need to redefine the term of a "desktop computer" and a "workstation computer", because in my eyes the gap between a desktop and a workstation computer is extremely blurred at the moment.
#5.2 frod on 21 Sep 2003 - 09:31
so i guess that would mean all top of the line pc "desktops" are "workstations" now? seeing as how they are not designed for the new users / general home use people.
#5.3 Chicane-UK on 21 Sep 2003 - 09:46
Well I genuinely don't know a great deal about the subject.. you have to get arsey with me as I was just stating my opinion.. I might be wrong, and if I am, then fair enough.

I always understood desktops / workstations to mean something like :

Desktop : lower powered, general / basic functions such as web browsing & email...
Workstation : higher end machine, possibly dual CPU, designed to be able to deal with powerful apps such as CAD, etc.

Again I dont REALLY know - I am jus trying to understand it / put an opinion on it.
#5.4 macrosslover on 21 Sep 2003 - 09:49
they are designed for the general home user, many just choose not to get them. however you don't see them come with 2 chips like the g5 or as high a price tag as the g5, in general.

you could make an argument that the 1.6 and 1.8 ghz g5 are strictly desktops, but once you put 2 chips in that baby and an above average price, the line between desktop and workstation is blurred.

whenever somebody talks about the price of the dual g5 and says that it's more expensive than a dell desktop or such, what's the first thing a Mac fan says?? compare the price of the system to an "equally" equipped dell workstation. well why are we comparing it to the price of a workstation if it's not a workstation??
#5.5 roadwarrior on 22 Sep 2003 - 10:23
QUOTE (#5.4)
compare the price of the system to an "equally" equipped dell workstation. well why are we comparing it to the price of a workstation if it's not a workstation??

Simply because you can't buy an off-the-shelf desktop PC with all the same features as the G5 without going to what other companies sell as a "workstation". Find me a desktop PC (any make or model) that has dual 64-bit CPU's, Serial-ATA hard drive, DVD-R, Firewire 800, USB 2.0, Bluetooth, and ever other single feature of the G5. If you can, please tell me the price of it. The same holds true for the PowerBooks, you have to go with a top of the line business notebook to come close to matching the specs on one of them. I priced both a 15" PowerBook and a Dell D800 the other day, and when I got through adding everything to the Dell that came standard on the PowerBook, the Dell was $6 more expensive, and the only reason that I was able to get it that close was by going with the slowest CPU that Dell offered on it, a P4 1.3Ghz (versus the 1.25Ghz G4).
(1 reply) #6 krzystealth on 21 Sep 2003 - 09:00
By who's standards?

4 years ago, a system like that would be considered a mainframe. In 4 years from now, that system will be a dinosaur.

However, if I had to put a label on it by todays standards, I would call it a workstation. Only because the person buying it would be using it as a DV machine.

However, the label 'server' must also be considered since 8GB of ram is very reasonable for database applications (Read: MySQL). So I guess its anything but a desktop.

I'm going to bed now, thinking about apple always makes me tired.
#6.1 frod on 21 Sep 2003 - 09:33
basically everyone in the mac forum who bought one did NOT buy it to be a dv box. so /me shrugs.

mostly just people who like to have the best for whatever reason. i remember a guy who bought a geforce 3 ti 500 right when they came out even though the only games he played were freecell and spider solitaire. /me shrugs again.
#7 Jason on 21 Sep 2003 - 10:24
Can't we have a guide made to make it either
(1 reply) #8 kronix2 on 21 Sep 2003 - 10:44
Just as Apple shipped a workstation as a desktop, so did BOXX a few months before them.

The G5 is nothing special; the benchmarks against the Opteron show it being decimated.
#8.1 Colonel Sanders on 21 Sep 2003 - 13:53
Not any I've seen. I've seen benchmarks where a 2400+ beats an opteron.
#9 Wickedkitten on 21 Sep 2003 - 12:22
the single cpu ones I would say are desktop machines but there is no way in hell that the average user needs a dual 2.0, that one is definitely a workstation
#10 Panorama on 21 Sep 2003 - 13:35
Who cares what it is, it's a computer. And for the record, I'd buy any Mac, regardless of the price but because I have brand new PC currently, I'm holding out.
#11 RobertH on 21 Sep 2003 - 14:40
If apple lowered the prices id buy one in a finger snap.... Its just i dont want to have to sell the car and my family to be able to afford the first payment.

I have been wanting a MAC for a while (the first one i had was urrm well a LONG time ago ) but the prices are just too high for something i may not get on with in the longrun...hmm
#12 nummi on 21 Sep 2003 - 14:45
Not only do you need to define the term workstation and desktop... you also need to define "average user". I always thought an average user was someone who surfed the net, and used Word to type papers. If that is the definition of avg user... then the avg user does not even need a P4. And on the Mac side, the avg user would only need a G3 for those tasks. I think the G5s could be a desktop machine or workstation. I have a G4 400mhz that was used for DV. Is it a workstation? I dunno.
(1 reply) #13 Hills420 on 21 Sep 2003 - 15:40
Best of both worlds. I want one.....

What sucks is the hardware is more expensive than a PC, the software is more expensive than a PC, and they give you a measly 6-month warranty on top of that. If they could lower thr prce to make it competitive with a PC, I'm sure their market share would increase drmatically.
#13.1 frod on 21 Sep 2003 - 17:59
most of the hardware is the same as the hardware you would buy for a windows box.

last time i checked, windows xp pro was over $200. current version of os x is under $200 i believe. i really don't know what grounds you have for saying software in general is more expensive than windows software.

and finally, they are competitive with windows boxes if you actually take the time to compare the price of machines with the same components. at least my powerbook was $300 cheaper than a dell laptop with less.
(3 replies) #14 Dashel on 21 Sep 2003 - 16:34
QUOTE
tenacity of those individuals who strive to to discredit Apple's retail efforts at every turn


I believe it was Apple who started this when they said that the Athlon 64bit was a workstation so therefore was not the first 64bit desktop/personal computer. This argument isn't about Apple's hardware IMO, but about their continually questionable marketing division. I can't think of anyone else in this industry that continually makes such broad claims about their systems. You know, ones like 'WORLDS FASTEST PERSONAL COMPUTER' :roll: I think we are all literate enough to understand that speed is relative to what you are actually doing with the computer.

Last edited by 5317 on 21 Sep 2003 - 16:40
#14.1 frod on 21 Sep 2003 - 17:56
i guess you don't know that the amd 64bit chips were not available to the public yet?
#14.2 Colonel Sanders on 21 Sep 2003 - 20:04
aren't the althon64's coming out just this week?
#14.3 roadwarrior on 22 Sep 2003 - 01:40
In that instance Apple was referring to the Opteron, not the Athlon 64.
#15 aaron901 on 21 Sep 2003 - 19:20
i'm confused with the definition too. to me, my laptop is a workstation.
(1 reply) #16 bluarash on 21 Sep 2003 - 21:02
The G5 is not a workstation. Yes, it has dual G5 processors in most configurations and a rather highend limit of 8gig of RAM.

But what it is missing to be classified by most as a workstation is a highend graphics cards with either 256mb or 512mb of video memory, and I'm not talking about a cheap ATI Radeon 9800 Pro card either, like the one that I happy own and love.

It also is lacking highend fiber for hard drive connectors, serial ata is nice, but is lacking compared to SCSI. The hard disk also don't run at a high enough RPM, it should at least be 10,000 if not 15,000 RPM for any serious video editing.

I'm sure that one could solve these problems by hot swapping components, but the system isn't stock like this. It's also a matter of getting highend graphics card developers to write drivers for the Mac. Not game card and general purpose card, no matter how highend they are.

It would also be nice to see a real CAD program like AutoCAD ported to OSX. Photoshop and dreamweaver do not the workstation applications make.

That being said it really does look like a nice computer. OSX is begining to look more and more like a stable developer platform.
#16.1 roadwarrior on 22 Sep 2003 - 01:38
QUOTE (#16.0)
a rather highend limit of 8gig of RAM

The actual memory limit is much higher than that, however that is the current limit imposed not by the system but by the availability (or lack thereof) of RAM modules greater than 1GB. The G5 has 8 slots, therefore the current limit is 8GB, but as soon as 2GB or 4GB RAM modules are available for it, the maximum RAM it can hold will increase (to 16GB or 32GB in those two examples). The true limit is in the multi-terabyte range, 16TB if I remember correctly. It's just a matter of having RAM modules big enough.
#17 mealbundy on 21 Sep 2003 - 21:54
its a mac, lets leave it at that.
#18 snocked on 22 Sep 2003 - 07:37
It's a supercomputer.

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