Open Source gains at Microsoft's Expense in Massachusetts
Posted by malebolgia on 20 October 2003 - 18:11 · 22 comments & 1507 views
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(2 replies)
#1 Posted by macrosslover on 20 Oct 2003 - 18:36
- hmm, why is this a surprise again? Massachusetts, one of the last holdout states in the antitrust trial. they basically didn't get anything they wanted, so what better way to stick it to MS than try something like this.
frankly oh well, MS will still live on, but for Massachusetts sake, they better hope that the open source software is just as productive and cheaper than the MS software. god forbid if they are crying over spilled milk and end up costing the taxpayers more money. -
#1.1 Posted by MR_Candyman on 20 Oct 2003 - 18:46
- umm...they did say that "The state has said it will continue to opt for Microsoft software if cost effective open source options are not available for some applications."
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#1.2 Posted by macrosslover on 20 Oct 2003 - 19:23
- they all say that, what do you think they're going to say, we will never buy another piece of MS software again? of course not. it all depends on how you define cost effective. a particular piece of open source software may be price cheaper than the MS software, but when you add in potential retraining and support costs, it could possibly end up being more expensive than the MS software.
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#2 Posted by WS togermano on 20 Oct 2003 - 18:54
- thank god i live in MA!! WOOT
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(1 reply)
#3 Posted by AdamKnowles on 20 Oct 2003 - 20:10
- Seems that these days all Microsoft want to do is make as much money from consumers as they can. I mean from a recent news post i hear that they are going to release some new Hotmail packages and start restricting Outlook acess unless you have subscribed, this kindof behaviour in a business like that gives me an incling that Open source is on the uprise and Microsoft are wetting their pants about it.
Open source would be the logical option for them to go for. -
#3.1 Posted by rezza on 20 Oct 2003 - 20:37
QUOTE all Microsoft want to do is make as much money from consumers as they can
Well, isn't that what being a business is all about? I kinda thought that was the whole point... you can't blame them for trying to wrangle as much money as possible out of the consumers. Personally, I don't like the way MSFT does business, and I won't be buying anymore of their software, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't be doing exactly what they're doing were I in their shoes.
I do think that MSFT are starting to realize finally that open source software is going to be a real direct threat to their monopoly, if not blow them entirely out of the water, and I think they are starting to panic about it. They have had an incredible monopoly for a couple of decades, and they aren't used to fighting with people who fight back effectively.I would like to see MSFT grow and prosper as a company, embracing new ideals and not sticking rigidly to yesterday's values, but alas I don't see it ever happening.
Unfortunately, MSFT are going down...
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#4 Posted by slapnuts_ox on 20 Oct 2003 - 20:57
- wait so this means if I stick to a propietary OS and am locked into paying loads of cash for stuff that I can't even modify any of the code for i have more choices?
Blah......the whole point behind open source is choice. This is just people which are getting paid lots of money by MS who don't want to lose any business talking now.
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#5 Posted by AdamKnowles on 20 Oct 2003 - 21:03
- The point i was trying to get across is that they are trying to squeeze more money out of us. They are getting considerably and more noticable GREEDY.
I think they should be put in their place and be let known that people deserve a choice and not to be forced into somthing that is no what they want nevermind require.
I mean if you want to buy a computer and not have windows on there is a loop hole where you can return windows unused and get you money back for it.
Micrsoft need to go to playschool again and learn to play with others. -
#5.1 Posted by macrosslover on 20 Oct 2003 - 21:21
- how are they squeezing money out of us? how are they doing anything different from any other business?
the price of windows has remained the same for years, office has relatively remained the same as well. you previously commented on the extra hotmail/msn storage and how they are charging for it? so what, nobody is force to buy it, it's your choice as a consumer to buy it. if you really need all that space then maybe you should pay, because that much storage does cost money.
if you want to buy a computer that doesn't have windows on it, then build a computer. people complain about including the operating system with a NEW computer, but frankly windows doesn't add that much if really anything to the price of the computer.
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#6 Posted by AdamKnowles on 20 Oct 2003 - 21:40
- I am commenting on their actions as a business. Their atitude and sales technique has changed quite noticably. I mean why would they be doing that if they weren't worried. And you obviously aren't an entrepreneure if you think that you go into business to squeeze money out of consumers other wise your business would be the first to fail.
You go into business because you see a gap in a market to sella product or service, well there is someone new that is providing the same if not better service and you are going to get all worried and try and get all the money you can before you go out of business. Obviously what Microsoft are doing, my friend open source is about to rule the day.
Also, build my own computer, would you like to tell me that every tom dick and harry can build their own computer?
There would be no market for people like dell if everyone went and built their own computers would there. -
#6.1 Posted by JaggedFlame on 20 Oct 2003 - 23:32
- Following in the steps of raid517, I see. Please use the friggin' Reply button.
QUOTE I am commenting on their actions as a business. Their atitude and sales technique has changed quite noticably.
What attitude? How can a company have an attitude? I called Microsoft for support last week and the guy was extremely helpful. Is that what you're referring to? If not, realize that companies are groups of people, not entities with feelings.
As for sales technique. Hotmail/MSN is posting a LOSS. What do you expect them to do, say, "Hey, we're losing an assload of money, but we're going to continue giving stuff away for free!"? I don't think so.
QUOTE You go into business because you see a gap in a market to sella product or service, well there is someone new that is providing the same if not better service and you are going to get all worried and try and get all the money you can before you go out of business. Obviously what Microsoft are doing, my friend open source is about to rule the day.
What kind of unresearched conjecture is that? How the hell would you know if they're worried or not? Do you actually work there, or are you just assuming because prices are rising that they're milking the cow? Do you accuse gas companies of milking you for all you're worth just because gas prices go up?
I'm looking at the facts, and the facts are that only Windows and Office are making Microsoft any money at all. They're not just going to sit back and give their other products away. This is capitalism. They need to make money to stay alive.
QUOTE Also, build my own computer, would you like to tell me that every tom dick and harry can build their own computer?
Are you telling me that every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be better off with Linux?
There's a reason Dells ship with Windows: most people who use Dells cannot use Linux. If you want Linux, there are plenty of smaller shops that sell computers without OSes or with Linux on them. -
#6.2 Posted by werejag on 21 Oct 2003 - 09:03
- you have some great points jaggedflame but maybe misguided. which i wont go into.
QUOTE companies are groups of people, not entities with feelings.
under law for one, companies are treated like entities(aka people).
for two companies are groups of people, who have a company plan( afeeling/direction they are moving.)
for three companies that endear heartless feelings, die horrible deaths.
for four companies are groups of people, entities with feelings.
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#7 Posted by Zatko55 on 21 Oct 2003 - 02:49
QUOTE As for sales technique. Hotmail/MSN is posting a LOSS. What do you expect them to do, say, "Hey, we're losing an assload of money, but we're going to continue giving stuff away for free!"? I don't think so.
There is more to it than dollars and cents. I mean, when Microsoft bought hotmail, a free webmail service, did they buy expecting to rake in huge amounts of cash?
Microsoft has more than a philosophy of simply making money to please their stock holders, they have a philosophy of making sure they are the only ones making money. If someone else is making money on computer software, they want to spoil their fun, even if Microsoft has to lose a boatload of money to do it. What pays for these tactics? Their monopoly on Windows and Office of course. In the future, when their cash cow has been broken, MS won't be able to use these ill tactics, and a new age of software technology should emerge.
Look at Netscape and IE. Microsoft spent millions to give it away for free, kill a company, and gain another monopoly. Microsoft, more than anyone else, has made Open Source inevitable. It's the only way to compete in an unfair market.
Also, its turning the tables on MS. Microsoft killed off many a competitor by giving away free or deeply discounted software. Now, Microsoft has to compete with an enemy thats giving away all of its software for free, and its getting better every day. No wonder Ballmer can't sleep at night.
And alot of us are IT people here. More competition means more jobs. And I don't think anyone can argue that we couldn't always use more of them. So, think that over before you decide whether microsoft is good for you.-
#7.1 Posted by JaggedFlame on 21 Oct 2003 - 03:25
- A lot of what you say is true. However, there is more to be gained from undercutting price-wise than just getting a good evil laugh out of things. Yeah, Microsoft gave away IE for free. It just enabled them to do more with Windows 98 than they would have otherwise. Do you really think all those features in 98 would have caught on if IE only had 15% of the market?
Like it or not, Bill Gates has his vision about changing the computing industry. I really think he couldn't care less if it's Microsoft, or if it's someone else. He's already done a crapload. But I'm pretty sure there's more to the way he managed the company than just undercutting the competition for no reason. With Windows 98, it was bringing the Internet to the desktop more easily, and I doubt that could have been done if Netscape was still dominant. Now, it's about mobile devices and all that stuff.
Yeah, it sounds like a bunch of corny BS, but when I bring all this stuff up, it's just highlighting the fact that whether Microsoft lives or dies, a lot of us are still going to be excited about the things they've come up with. We still want to see mobile devices connected to the Internet and participating in web services. If they die, hopefully those ideas will make their way into open source. I really don't care who it is who brings these ideas into existence; it certainly doesn't have to be Microsoft. But it has to be someone, and at the moment it is companies that are pushing these things into the industry. Companies make money. They need to, if they're going to have the resources to pull this off. I just don't see how constantly jumping on their case for being capitalist is going to help anyone.
And honestly, complaining about having to pay for Hotmail? Worst comes to worst, you switch to something else. Almost everyone has an ISP e-mail account anyway. Would you prefer Hotmail just up and died? Isn't competition good, regardless of who it comes from?
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#8 Posted by AdamKnowles on 21 Oct 2003 - 08:03
- What is wrong with using linux, there is Red Hat which is very user freindly as much so as Windows is, and there is nothing wrong with that. Why am i not allowed a choice when i go into a store and am presented with a range of computers that all have the same dam thing on them.
I doubt very much that their support desk has got anything to do with the situation at all. Like any support from any company they are there for support. Not to sell you the product you already have.
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#8.1 Posted by JaggedFlame on 21 Oct 2003 - 14:29
- Are you kidding me? Did you remember the whole fiasco about the "Any Key"? When Compaq had to change its prompts to "Press the Return key" so their support desk would stop getting overloaded with calls asking where the "Any" key was?
Support has a ton to do with it. When 90% of the people who buy the systems with Linux don't know how to use it, it gets overwhelmed.
And if you were an average customer who bought a computer with Linux on it just because it was cheaper, wouldn't you be pissed off with the Dell experience if you had a computer you didn't know how to use? You know it'll happen. I'm sure Dell doesn't want to alienate their customers like that.
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#9 Posted by Jonno on 21 Oct 2003 - 13:42
- Wow, a big step forward in my opinion, but I don't see how opting for free software costs the taxpayers money, could someone explain that please?
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#9.1 Posted by JaggedFlame on 21 Oct 2003 - 14:27
- It still costs money to maintain Linux, even if the box price is nothing. In some cases it can cost more than a Windows solution would.
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#9.2 Posted by Rambo2000 on 21 Oct 2003 - 15:13
- In the long run it cost less to run Linux, it might and I say might cost more at first as they move over but thats a one off cost, but in the long run Linux is cheaper and will become cheaper as it gets easier, anyone with half a brain can figure that one out, apart from some, the ones that don't want to see it happen
However, Microsoft will not be completely eliminated from Massachusetts' technology expenditures. The state has said it will continue to opt for Microsoft software if cost effective open source options are not available for some applications. The trend toward governmental purchases of Linux is significant, Yankee Group analyst Laura DiDio told NewsFactor. "Shoul
Limiting Choice?
The Massachusetts mandate is a bad idea, said Mike Wendy, PR and policy consul for the Computing Technology Industry Association, a software trade group of which Microsoft is a leading member. "Without the mandate, the state of Massachusetts has a bountiful selection of software options that they can easily chose from without having to preordain or bias a choice," he told NewsFactor. This limiting of choice is "bad for taxpayers and it's bad for the Massachuetts IT industry, which is still largely proprietary in nature," he said. Massachusetts state officials were not immediately available for comment.
In the trademark case, the owner of the name "Bourse des vols" (Market for Flights), an Internet travel agent, wanted Google to stop allowing competitors to include "Bourse des vols" as a term that would generate an advertisement and link to their own site that Internet searchers could click on.
Google had refused, arguing its French arm was not responsible, that the term bourse des vols was not protected by a valid trademark and that the issue was technological and could not be resolved.
But the court found for the plaintiff on all three issues, said Fabrice Dariot, who owns the trademark to "Bourse des Vols" and sued Google. Dariot said that while the fine was small, the decision could be important.
"It was as though the Internet and the real world were two different worlds, but this ruling shows that there is only one world," he said in an interview. "It shows that the Internet will have to respect intellectual property rights."
The result of the decision would be that any time the term "Bourse des Vols" was typed in, only ads for that specific site could be posted with the search results, Dariot said.