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DRM music goldrush is a race for losers - mp3.com founder

NTUsEr   on 21 November 2003 - 16:46 · 17 comments & 1385 views

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Apple is leading a race of lemmings into the zero-profit business of closed music downloads, says the founder of MP3.com, Michael Robertson.

"It seems kind of crazy to me, the economics don't make sense," Robertson told us Thursday. "Why are all these guys like Microsoft and Wal-Mart rushing into a business where the industry leader says 'we cannot make money with the contracts that we have'?" "This is a race where the winner gets shot in the head." And William Tell-style, Apple volunteered to be the first into the firing range. Canny Apple has had to swallow the pigopolists royalty fees, and DRM restrictions, but it thinks it has a business because its closed business model sees downstream profits from iPods sales.

Robertson started MP3.com in 1998 and after a barrage of lawsuits, sold it to Vivendi Universal in 2001. Last week, after a night on the tiles, Vivendi sold the mp3.com domain name to CNET, leaving the million-song archive to the vultures. (Robertson is striving to find a host for this, and we shall have more news of this later today). The computer industry traditionally opposed the copyright cartel, but Apple was the first snitch to cut a deal with the pigopolists. Was this wise, we wondered? "If one company got a huge market share - say 50 per cent or higher - they could negotiate better royalty rates," notes Robertson. "But they forget something. The music industry is tens of thousands of publishers and just five major record labels. Getting all of them to agree is a real tough thing to accomplish even if you're market leader."


News source: The Reg


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(4 replies) #1 vettimdorr on 21 Nov 2003 - 17:06
Uh, the point of the iTMS is to sell iPods... Love how he glazed over that fact..
#1.1 Shovel on 21 Nov 2003 - 18:51
The reason I expect it was 'glazed over' is like because no one can quite believe how such a business plan would actually - well - work. Will selling iPods really offset the losses? What about long term? Bandwidth, servers and software development? Spreading to the PC, Apple has to compete with a wider selection of MP3 players.
Even if the sums do add up now, there comes a point when the number of people who have iPods and are downloading, added to those just downloading, will outstrip people buying new iPods. iPod sales are not exponential. The "Apple tag" price bump factor wont cover everything.

Given the link between iPod and iTunes, what will Apple propose when this loss-leader starts to eat bigger losses?
#1.2 \\Coroner// on 21 Nov 2003 - 19:17
What kind of cost did the really take on?
They already had servers hosting Apple software files and Quicktime media.
I dunno if you ever used this from them but I always got stuff fast from their servers, and dont think its because there was not too many concurrent users downloading. So most of the structure on their end was already there.
#1.3 dp123 on 21 Nov 2003 - 19:31
Shovel, I don't get most of your logic. In fact, I don't get how Microsoft can have about 50 loss-leading products and no one cares. Apple has one and says so, and people think they are crazy.

But back to your logic...

"Spreading to the PC, Apple has to compete with a wider selection of MP3 players."

Um, they were and still are the leading HD digimusicplayer even before iTunes for PC came out. I don't see this as a problem. For all the claims that everyone would undercut them on price, I'm still seeing products that are only slightly cheaper $60 or so, that aren't as good all-around.

"Bandwidth, servers and software development?"

They already had a huge investment in this, and this investment can be leveraged into many areas. Some existing. (QT Movie Trailers, .Mac, Software Updates and downloads. A movie service? etc.) Also, these costs decrease over time (or rather the margin decreases and then moves out of the red into the postive. After all, they did basically support this infrastructure for no gain at all for several years -- QT Trailers.)

"Even if the sums do add up now, there comes a point when the number of people who have iPods and are downloading, added to those just downloading, will outstrip people buying new iPods."

A few things here. For one, you presume once an iPod sold, that's the end of the sales opportunity. It's not. I'm more interested in upgrading my iPod than my computers. I also buy a bunch of peripherals, a couple I have bought from Apple Stores. Secondly, Apple continues to sell iPods quicker than they can make them. I don't see sales stopping or even diminishing any time soon. In fact, they continue to grow.

"The "Apple tag" price bump factor wont cover everything."

This sounds rather petulent. What is your point? The fact is people aren't buying it for the name. It simply is the best player. I would say it's rather the opposite: I'm always shocked by the people who refuse to buy something because of the Apple name; however, in this case, those very people who say they will never buy an Apple product are willing to do so because they recognize it is the best. It is the most developed platform -- it has far, far, far more peripherals than any other player. It is more ubiquitous than any other player. etc...

Jobs and Apple haven't claimed there is never going to be any money at all in Downloads. They said there is little money. Apple doesn't enter markets at a whim, without ever making any profits the way MS does. If Apple can break even, the pace of iPod sales or Mac sales will more than make up for the zero sum of downloads.

But this also implies there is no profit at all. Something I disagree with. If Apple can hold something like 50% of the mp3 player market for the next five years and can also maintain 50% of the download market (Which I think is reasonable, probably very conservative.) than they will probably profit, depending on how licensing goes down the line, depending on how international licensing works out...

You presume the losses get bigger but the losses actually get smaller. Don't poeple know this? With greater and greater volume, distribution costs, licensing costs, development costs go down. Not up.
#1.4 mipra on 22 Nov 2003 - 06:51
That's gonna be a long shot for them. Sallute too...they have at least tried
(3 replies) #2 walpurgis999 on 21 Nov 2003 - 17:13
It is beyond me why companies would even get involved with the MP3 craze anymore. Sure you can make a quick buck still, but the days of free music downloading are all but gone. Sure people can say, "I still do it, its my right to download music". No, its not, its stealing plain and simple. I did it, more so with other media than music, but still it was downloading. As more and more companies but pressure on ISPs and send out Infringement Violations based on the DMRC (I think thats the spelling), more and more ISPs will block ports and reduce uploading on their networks, less and less music will be available. Moreover, as bands keep offering free bonus DVDs or CDs with their albums, less people are likely to download inferior MP3s. Likewise, how are these companies making money if they offer free music? Personally, why filesharing didnt stop with Napster is unreal--downloading copyrighted files is illegal, no matter what you say or do.
#2.1 hardgiant on 21 Nov 2003 - 17:29
Truthfully think it became a lot worse after Napster since it splinter in all different directions. The music biz made a huge mistake by not buying napster out right and controlling it.

PS: Music is not the only thing that is being traded on the internet, it seems that copyright pictures are also being traded freely and they aren't doing much about though cause they don't have a RIAA of there own.
#2.2 bluarash on 21 Nov 2003 - 18:25
I actually wish the RIAA luck. I maybe the only one who thinks this, but my feeling is that besides online trading of music, another reason may be the poor quality of artist today. Sure you can get older tracks, but how many times can you listen to them? Putting it simply, I think today's artist are of poor quality. That being said I don't feel that it should detract from the legal aspects of their side, but it does make it hard in the long run to sell audiocd/digital encoded audio.

The other problem that Apple is already facing is that you can't make a profit in the sale of online music. Sure Apple can because it is a hardware company that sells computers, software, and hardware. I suspect that Napster will be a failure or so with iListen's Rhapsody (or whatever they are calling it now). A dollar a song, no matter how many you sell, is no business plan. Add in the fact that most songs on the network are very poorly encoded and substandard WMA (less than 9) and you have a poor mix that is doomed to fail as a business model. If I was Microsoft I would stay the hell away from it, and just license out the technology to those who want to attempt this.

P.S.
The DMCA is rather flawed and will be a huge legal issue and burden for both sides soon.
#2.3 Mav Phoenix on 21 Nov 2003 - 20:19
They're not using WMA 9??? Wow...
#3 walpurgis999 on 21 Nov 2003 - 17:41
I did it, more so with other media than music, but still it was downloading.

--Obviously from my statment there I understand that other files are traded. To name a few: bin, iso, and cd images; zip, rar, ace files holding movies, pictures, or full album worth of MP3s; avi, mpg, qt, rp, and wmv movies that are either adult or theather movies; then we screeners; there are pdfs that are copies of books or magazines; and we have various softwares like Nero and Oses like Windows XP being shared illegaly. The RIAA does not become involved in a lot of this, but their are other laws and acts (DMRA or DMRC, I dont remember) against filesharing.
Oh ya, and the whole point is to sell those MP3 players and let the public get sued for downloading and uploading the MP3s later in the long run.
#4 vetmalebolgia on 21 Nov 2003 - 17:45
Michael Robertson
#5 radixvir on 21 Nov 2003 - 18:16
i understand that apple has the excuse of wanting to sell more ipods but what about these other guys starting music services? i dont understand why they would want to do it. i think maybe i agree with michael robertson (gasp)
(1 reply) #6 vetBroChaos on 21 Nov 2003 - 19:22
michael robertson is an idiot.

lindows blows as well
#6.1 PseudoRandomDragon on 23 Nov 2003 - 00:56
I bet you never used it.
(2 replies) #7 pixlnet on 21 Nov 2003 - 21:42
You're listening to a guy who got lucky by owning a domain name everyone wanted. Also, Jobs stated that they weren't making *much* money on each song. They are still making around like I thought I read 15 or 20 cents a song. Now they have deals with Pepsi and McDonalds and both companies are paying full price for each song they give away. Believe it or not, iTunes IS a money maker. On top of making pennies each song, they sell the iPods on top of that.
They've been receiving good press and take a note that Neowin has been posting Apple much more lately. iTunes will sell iPods, it will make Apple cash for each song, and *MOST* importantly, will entise people to make the switch......which many people seem to overlook. So many people focus on the Linux vs. Microsoft battle when lil old Apple is the real competition. The transition from OS9 to OSX is what Microsoft is doing today with XP to Longhorn. Keep an eye on Apple not Linux.
#7.1 markjensen on 22 Nov 2003 - 00:59
I must say that I browsed the computer stores again this past weekend... Those new Apples are pretty AMAZING! A tad bit expensive... But pretty spiffy looking! I was eyeballing their impressive $3500 monitor. Beautiful, and an incredible resolution! I thinkn 1900xsomething. I don't remember, because the sticker shock wreaked havoc with my memory for the rest of the day...
#7.2 KCKitsune on 22 Nov 2003 - 11:41
Pixlnet, I understand what you're saying, but with the price tag of Apple hardware, they are not that much competition. I can go out and for $400 build myself a pretty good Linux system (I can get you hard numbers if you want), and that would just be a down payment for an Apple system. Now don't get me wrong, if the price of Apple hardware came down some, then I would love to get myself one.

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