Sun Microsystems' top software executive criticized Microsoft's decision to drop older software products that rely on Java software and offered a steep discount on Sun's own desktop software.
In an open letter to customers, Sun executive vice president Jonathan Schwartz said Microsoft's decision to stop distributing older products such as Windows 98 is a deliberate attempt to coerce customers to upgrade to newer software. "It's a lesson in how a company with legendary market dominance can lose sight of customer priorities and force an unnecessary transition on to a customer base already paralyzed with viruses and security breaches," Schwartz said in the letter, published Thursday.
Schwartz took the opportunity to pitch Sun's own desktop software, which uses Java and runs on Linux, to current Microsoft customers. "Sun Microsystems will agree to match any offer Microsoft puts on the table for desktop software--at 50 percent of Microsoft's quoted offer," Schwartz said in a statement. In his letter, Schwartz took issue with Microsoft's claim that Sun "forced its hand" to stop distributing older products. In a posting to a Microsoft download site, Microsoft said several products would be phased out because of a settlement reached with Sun in January 2001 regarding distribution of Windows products that use the Java virtual machine, software needed to run programs written with Sun's Java language.
News source: C|Net News.com
In an open letter to customers, Sun executive vice president Jonathan Schwartz said Microsoft's decision to stop distributing older products such as Windows 98 is a deliberate attempt to coerce customers to upgrade to newer software. "It's a lesson in how a company with legendary market dominance can lose sight of customer priorities and force an unnecessary transition on to a customer base already paralyzed with viruses and security breaches," Schwartz said in the letter, published Thursday.
Schwartz took the opportunity to pitch Sun's own desktop software, which uses Java and runs on Linux, to current Microsoft customers. "Sun Microsystems will agree to match any offer Microsoft puts on the table for desktop software--at 50 percent of Microsoft's quoted offer," Schwartz said in a statement. In his letter, Schwartz took issue with Microsoft's claim that Sun "forced its hand" to stop distributing older products. In a posting to a Microsoft download site, Microsoft said several products would be phased out because of a settlement reached with Sun in January 2001 regarding distribution of Windows products that use the Java virtual machine, software needed to run programs written with Sun's Java language.
News source: C|Net News.com
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That's ridiculous. They should be focusing on making Java appealing regardless, not constantly arguing about who bundles what.
When Microsoft stops supporting a product it's forcing you to upgrade. Otherwise you're open to attacks and future software will cease to fuction on your os.
Duh!
Microsoft is stopping the Distribution of these old products not the support.
I think you need to read some more. Look back at some of the previous articles here on Neowin (posted early today or late yesterday, I can't remember at the moment). Microsoft IS ending support for Windows 98.
That's ridiculous. They should be focusing on making Java appealing regardless, not constantly arguing about who bundles what
By helping hand I assume you mean Microsoft licensing Java, then adding Win32 extensions that didn't conform to Sun's specification, undermining the cross platform appeal of the software?
well, that is the usual practice of M$.
some kids only know "faster" is "better".
"Duh" yourself. It is completely infeasible for any company of that stature to support every single one of its products forever. And it is not forcing you to upgrade. Plenty of people are still using Windows 3.1 in corporate scenarios. They know there are no more patches. But maybe, just maybe, that's not a concern in their particular scenario.
Did you ever stop to think about that? It happens, you know.
No, you assume wrong. Sun is complaining about everything, not just that. They complain (perhaps justified) that Microsoft hijacks Java. They complain that Microsoft doesn't include Sun's Java. They complain when Microsoft removes Java altogether. They complain when Microsoft decides to forget about Java and just drop products that include it.
Sun's issue now being that customers don't have a "transition time." Big deal! Those customers aren't going to come running to Sun's implementation of Java. They're Microsoft customers. Do you think they chose these products because they include Java? Most of them are just going to upgrade to a version of Microsoft software that doesn't depend on Java. What then?
If Java isn't good enough to make people use it despite the issue of whether or not it's bundled, how is it going to carry Sun anywhere?
When Microsoft stops supporting a product it's forcing you to upgrade. Otherwise you're open to attacks and future software will cease to fuction on your os.
Duh!
Is MS holding a loaded gun to the head of it's customers? No. That is forcing an upgrade.
Win98 is the most stable Win9x OS. Stopping it's support won't force people to upgrade. Mr. Joe Blow doesn't think "OMG! Now I have to buy a new computer!". He thinks "This has worked for me for 5 years. Why should I buy a new computer?"
As far as attacks, there are less and less attacks on old software. Why go after something 5 years old when you can exploit something in the newest OS?
Stop MS from doing 98 etc, and then say that its MS's fault for stopping it, and then release cheap software from themselves to make a quick buck.
It's because of the Java VM, but Sun makes it sound like MS did it on purpose.
Last edited by 41901 on 19 Dec 2003 - 22:47
And Microsoft doesn't force anyone to do anything, how a corporation can force a consumer to do something is rediculus (mispell I'm sure too lazy to check), a consumer chooses to buy what he/she wants, if you don't want to buy it then don't! Its as simple as that you consumer who*es.
The reason for Sun's letter is that when people ask Microsoft why they killed off Win98 they will say "Sun made us" - this is a 1/2 truth, given the situation.
If anything, Sun did MS a favor with this. If I was MS I'd rather have killed off the old barnacle but I probably wouldn't be able to on my own b/c of the bad PR that can come with it. This way they get to blame someone else.
which is what Sun doesn't have, and is exactly why it's what Sun wants ;p
An odd feature of human nature, I guess... :/
STV
Anyone who thinks that one product beats another for every single scenario regardless of differing needs is an idiot.
Besically this is Ricknl's point as well
About 6 months ago, they had an article on microsoft's ".NET" name, and how it was all a cheap publicity shot, it just annoys me - You dont go to microsoft.com and see articles on how sun are crap, or bad, or anything.
At least microsoft is civilised
It's like a relationship that ended badly, and now one partys trying to get revenge by showing up the other one... i didnt know my ex ran sun! (we've all been there!)
I intend to stick with microsoft JVM as long as i can, i dont want to install huge amounts of sun java files, and have web start stuff... arg.
Last edited by 40932 on 20 Dec 2003 - 00:50
Besides, you simply changed the topic completely. Most of us were talking about how moronic Sun's complaints were (ie. suns says to microsoft to remove support for Windows 98 (because it has msjvm in it), microsoft does it, now sun says "look microsoft are not looking after there customers and are forcing people to upgrade"
Anyway, Sun is just as money hungry as Microsoft.
It's not only pathetic, it's embarrassing.
You call people sheep, but how much do you think that hurts coming from a grubby little insect like you that can't even come up with your own insults? If you came up with anything new or original, that would at least be something. But then if you could do that, you wouldn't be a stupid troll, would you?
As for me, I just look at this from Microsoft's perspective: with enemies like you, who needs friends?
but try the latest version of sun's vm it is amazing man
but also, i like Java language, it is very well documented and it is very easy to program in java language
it seems to me that you are pathetic and have nothing better to do but tell people how they should side with.
stay true to yourself and like what you like because you like it.
STV
STV
So... When Microsoft decides it's time to stop distributing a 5/6 year old operating system it's coercion, but when Apple does it - it's perfectly acceptable, and deemed progress? Try buying an earlier version of Solaris from Sun than Solaris 8 and see where that gets you.
Hell, it's about time the entire 9x branch got completely retired, they've had a full product cycle.
so what oses are left from microsoft?
xp and 2003
all the rest have been canned for one lame reason or another.
not to mention that microsoft's java VM was 10 times better than sun's own VM back in the day... sure, now microsoft's VM sucks because it's old and java has changed since it was last updated. now microsoft's only allowed to patch it, not improve it, which makes sun's VM better by default...
the windows 2000 line is still available, works great, and will still have support for another 3 years at least (except the servers, which we recently found out). xp is even better than 2000, and look at all the people on neowin using server 2003 as a workstation... don't tell me there aren't decent microsoft OSes to use. hell, 9x doesn't even qualify as a decent OS. to be honest, before i started using 2000/xp, i didn't like windows too much either (don't get me started on windows me), so don't go calling me a sheep you blind donkey.
How many OSes are left from Sun Microsystems?
I suppose you think MSFT should still be supported and distributing MSDOS?
Secondly, how many years did you use your PC before a hardware upgrade? 3? 5? Shouldn't software be upgraded every few years like hardware? Didn't one major Linux distro released an "upgrade" every few months, and stopped product support one year after its release? Maybe you also criticized them back then, morally?
Thirdly, wasn't Sun advocating Microsoft customers to switch to a better, more secure OS all the time? Now the customers are going to switch, and suddenly Sun is not happy.
java is multi platform.
this act is the act of microsoft not the act of sun. its simply a microsoft temper tamper. basicly "if i cant have it now one will, im taking my ball and going home."
CE, CE.NET... are not desktop oses, get your facts straight
and yes, this was a JAVA VM, you could if you wanted to run java apps outside of IE... or maybe you just never even tried that huh? the part most people saw was the IE plug in... but it was also capable of running standard java applets outside of IE also... maybe you need to get a copy of Visual J++ and figure out that one on your own...
It's called Competition, sometimes it can be Anal, but they're all trying to screw one another!
they cut older lines because they want to save on support costs.. Why stick with an OS thats almost 8 years old. BTW who wantsa a sh!tty sun desktop os anyway.. i've used it before
If Microsoft continues supporting Win98, that's encouraging customers to use a product that they openly acknowledge to be inherently insecure.
If Microsoft provide free upgrade from Win98 to WinXP, that's illegally using their power of market share to push their competitors out of the business.
Bottomline: Microsoft is eval, unless, of course, they advice their costomers to switch to Sun desktop, and provide free technical assistance if necessary.
I wrote a more complete opinion in my blog....
http://blogontheweb.com/Striker
Sun made java, told MS they could use it if it followed their specifications. Microsoft made their VM only compatible with windows, and imcompatible with sun java.
Which was quite fortunate, overall, since it paved the way for the creation of C# and the .net CLI, which is a vastly superior architecture.
Any applet made for Microsoft's JVM would NOT work in Sun's Java. It would also only work in Windows.