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Slot Machine Looms in EU-Microsoft Case

malebolgia   on 21 March 2004 - 00:26 · 41 comments & 1142 views

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Microsoft Corp. software designed for, of all things, cash registers and slot machines played a persuasive role in the European Union's landmark antitrust case labeling it an abusive monopolist. The European Commission is expected to fine Microsoft hundreds of millions of euros next week and order it to offer a version of its ubiquitous Windows operating system without Windows Media Player audio-visual software installed.

If Competition Commissioner Mario Monti succeeds in getting Microsoft to reconfigure future versions of an operating system that runs more than 95 percent of all PCs -- still considered a longshot by some industry observers -- a piece of Microsoft software known as Windows XP Embedded could be the reason. The commission says that by bundling Windows Media Player with its operating system, Microsoft is stifling competition in a market that is rapidly becoming a favorite method for consumers to listen to music and watch movies. Microsoft argues removal of Windows Media Player will limit, if not make impossible, the ability to play songs and film clips on a PC.

News source: Reuters


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  • Post a comment · Send to friend Comments · There are 41 additional comments
    (1 reply) #1 dannyres on 21 Mar 2004 - 01:05
    Alot of people dont realize it, but the article is right, if they remove WMP from windows most people using computers (yes the majority are n00bs), wont be able to play music cause they dont know how to download let alone install it, or some other player like winamp. I think MS should include all the api's for playing music in windows and let them play in a thing like windows picture viewer, just very basic. Then people can play their music but if they want something more advanced for archiving music and sorting it etc they can get something like WMP.
    #1.1 markjensen on 21 Mar 2004 - 03:23
    A couple of things...
    First, it will depend on what 'unbundling' boils down to in the end. It may mean "not installed by default, but present on the CD".
    or, it may mean "not even included on the CD, but when you first try to access a media file, you will be sent to a download center to pick your player".

    Hardly "crippling" the PC, unless Microsoft refuses to make the download/install easy to do....
    #2 Simon- on 21 Mar 2004 - 01:34
    Yes, some media players rely on DLLs/APIs/Codecs from WMP to decode and play content, but that's the reason why it's anti-competitive.
    #3 dannyres on 21 Mar 2004 - 01:46
    But then wouldnt the whole set of windows API's be considered "anti-competitive"? For example the GDI apis, they draw stuff to the screen, but there are other ways you can do that by using things like Direct X.. hm that wasnt a very good example but oh well.
    (1 reply) #4 netstarman on 21 Mar 2004 - 02:09
    Then apple should start using putting wma on ITUNES , then ogg, and so forth I have no problem with windows media player being on my system, the EU needs to stop going after something thats not even worthwhile to go after. If you dont want to use WMA use another player there are plenty to go around.
    #4.1 Octol on 21 Mar 2004 - 04:07
    QUOTE
    ...the EU needs to stop going after something thats not even worthwhile to go after.


    The problem is that there is something worth going after—money.

    The EU can huff and puff about fairness and competition, but in the end, it's all about the money—it ain't any more complicated than that. They don't give a rat's ass about competition. They know that they can get away with blackmailing Microsoft for some big bucks, and they're going for it.

    This is government sponsored extortion, plain and simple.
    (5 replies) #5 warr on 21 Mar 2004 - 02:58
    the case is more about MS use its bundled WMP, or its tactic of bundling, to beat other competitors. not really about WMP.

    #5.1 dannyres on 21 Mar 2004 - 03:06
    I understand that... I just dont get why Apple can get away with it by bundling all the software. And also with linux with all those apps that come with some distros.
    #5.2 markjensen on 21 Mar 2004 - 03:26
    Someone seems to need to point this out in every news thread, so here goes again...

    Microsoft (right or wrong) was found guilty in US courts of illegally using their monopoly position, and have therefore fallen under special rules that require US Government involvement in their business. The Europeans use the US precedent somewhat, and have similar laws of their own that must be adhered to.

    As for Linux... Yeah, they bundle... A bunch of choices made by tons of different people and organizations. It's about the opposite of what Microsoft is doing.
    #5.3 Shining Arcanine on 21 Mar 2004 - 14:20
    QUOTE (#5.2)
    Someone seems to need to point this out in every news thread, so here goes again...

    Microsoft (right or wrong) was found guilty in US courts of illegally using their monopoly position, and have therefore fallen under special rules that require US Government involvement in their business. The Europeans use the US precedent somewhat, and have similar laws of their own that must be adhered to.

    As for Linux... Yeah, they bundle... A bunch of choices made by tons of different people and organizations. It's about the opposite of what Microsoft is doing.

    The US courts are wrong. Microsoft is company that cares about its consumers and makes changes to its Operating System with their best interest in mind.
    #5.4 markjensen on 21 Mar 2004 - 14:52
    Maybe I am more cynical, but a corporations only loyalty is to its shareholders. Therefore their motivation is purely financial.

    Now, to get the profits maximized, a corporation needs to try to do well at what they do. At least as good as (or better than) their competition. A corporation without much competition has no real DRIVE to excel, merely be 'very good'. Right now, Microsoft is at no real risk of losing much of their customer base (at least at the home/desktop level). Their biggest concern is a good struggle for the server market.

    I think Microsoft makes a good product, but their loyalty (definition of a corporation in a capitalistic economic system) is to the dollar (or Yen, or Euro, etc.)
    #5.5 Atlas on 21 Mar 2004 - 19:20
    GNULinux distrobutions don't require any specific pieces of software installed. You don't want KDE? YOU NEVER HAVE TO HAVE IT INSTALLED. Don't like Gnome? SAME THING.

    With a microsoft solution you are forced to have WMP on your computer at least once. You have no option to remove it on install. I'm talking about offical cd's, not hacked together preinstalls you guys often bring up that are far from default.

    With GNULinux you have choice, you don't even need a GUI.
    (1 reply) #6 gosh on 21 Mar 2004 - 04:15
    AOL bundles view point media player with there software, why isn't europe concerned about that? As long as microsoft doesn't prevent you from installing a 3rd party media player, i don't see the crime committed.

    -gosh
    #6.1 Himosan on 21 Mar 2004 - 11:43
    If you "dont see the crime" then I would suggest reading up on antitrust law AOL is not a monopoly of anything (most certainly not in Europe), and hence cannot be using their monopoly power to illegally extend it to other areas (to the detriment of consumers).

    (2 replies) #7 BigBoy on 21 Mar 2004 - 05:36
    You know, reporters that post this as "sensational" news seem to forget that once they DO decide to fine MS for this, teh legal batter is just starting, and it will take YEARS...

    You think MS will next Friday say "Okay - so who do we make the check to?"

    I don't think so...
    #7.1 roadwarrior on 21 Mar 2004 - 19:31
    You don't seem to understand business law then. If the government says that they must do something or pay a fine, Microsoft MUST do it if the wish to continue doing business in that country. It would be quite easy for the EU to make the sale or importation of Microsoft products illegal if Microsoft doesn't comply.
    #7.2 wildk on 22 Mar 2004 - 09:37
    Really, I would love to see the EU try and bar microsoft from operating in member countries of the EU. Might be like watching a benny hill episode.

    Personnally I don't care if the EU force microsoft to remove media player, there is nothing to stop me downloading it and re-installing it. similarly there is currently nothing to stop end users installing a media player of their choice, I use WMP Winamp and Creative Playcenter (For my jukebo All work perfectly and nothing stopped me from installing another companies media player
    (4 replies) #8 nutter9k on 21 Mar 2004 - 09:57
    i like windows media player though

    i tried winamp and realone player and musicmatch jukebox (i even had the plus version for a while) but i prefer wmp, i hope they at least keep it on the cd or something because i like having a lot of things integrated in windows, it means if some software goes balls up i can generally fall back on the windows stuff, or in the case of wmp i just use the windows stuff anyway
    #8.1 Shining Arcanine on 21 Mar 2004 - 14:22
    Real is spyware, Quicktime doesn't play much and isn't fully featured. MusicMatch isn't that nice. Winamp isn't fully featured. Europe is force feeding their people inferior products in exchange for money.
    #8.2 pogz on 21 Mar 2004 - 18:00
    Yeah, exactly. Almost everyone that uses WMP uses it because it's the media player they prefer. Personally, I don't use it, but it's never prevented me from downloading something else that I like better...
    #8.3 Atlas on 21 Mar 2004 - 19:23
    What the eff?

    Winamp is more fully featured than WMP, and any features it lacks can be added in with plugins. The plugins approach to features is way better because it reduces the bloat. Winamp 5 owns all.

    I only wish they had a linux ver.
    #8.4 tapo on 21 Mar 2004 - 22:00
    XMMS (X MultiMedia System) is basically a clone of winamp for Linux. Very good, my second favorite MP3 player. (Next to iTunes on my Mac.)
    (3 replies) #9 S7R1K3R on 21 Mar 2004 - 11:14
    I don't get why people hate Microsoft so much i mean if the Europeans want to rip apart Windows, Microsoft should just stop selling their products there, and just remove support for them and see how they like it. If you don't like it dont buy it.
    #9.1 Himosan on 21 Mar 2004 - 11:53
    "I don't get why people hate Microsoft so much"

    You reap what you sow.

    "i mean if the Europeans want to rip apart Windows, Microsoft should just stop selling their products there, and just remove support for them and see how they like it. If you don't like it dont buy it."

    That's a great idea. No wait, that would be inane and probably illegal or at least completely ineffective. And hey, wasn't 'ripping apart windows' originally the Americans' ideas? So they must hate MS too -- maybe we can get MS to stop selling in the US as well. And hey the Japanese just raided...

    OTOH maybe M/S does do some <gasp> bad things


    #9.2 Shining Arcanine on 21 Mar 2004 - 14:25
    QUOTE (#9.0)
    I don't get why people hate Microsoft so much i mean if the Europeans want to rip apart Windows, Microsoft should just stop selling their products there, and just remove support for them and see how they like it. If you don't like it dont buy it.

    That is an idea. The Europeans can't do a thing if Microsoft shuts down all of their operations in Europe. Then the EU will receive loads of pressure from people living in Europe who can't live without Microsoft Windows simply because they love using it.
    #9.3 Atlas on 21 Mar 2004 - 19:25
    You never cease to be a retard do you?

    Microsoft wouldn't do something like that because they want the world. If they stop selling in Europe, then the competition would move in and that's not something they want.

    Microsoft will just be forced to remove their media player from the default install. A small loss to them, in the bigger picture.
    (8 replies) #10 Waka on 21 Mar 2004 - 11:32
    "Microsoft argues removal of Windows Media Player will limit, if not make impossible, the ability to play songs and film clips on a PC."

    IMPOSSIBLE?!?!
    Jeez, MS really does think *everyone* is stoopid, don't they!

    W.
    #10.1 dannyres on 21 Mar 2004 - 12:09
    unfortunatly alot of people are.
    #10.2 markjensen on 21 Mar 2004 - 13:57
    If they treat a missing media player like a missing IE plug-in, then when you try to play an .mp3 or whatever, it would tell you 'no player is installed', and pop open IE and point it to a download center where WMP (and perhaps other choices?) are avalable for the user to pick from...
    #10.3 Shining Arcanine on 21 Mar 2004 - 14:25
    QUOTE (#10.0)
    "Microsoft argues removal of Windows Media Player will limit, if not make impossible, the ability to play songs and film clips on a PC."

    IMPOSSIBLE?!?!
    Jeez, MS really does think *everyone* is stoopid, don't they!

    W.

    Many other Media players rely on the WMP API.
    #10.4 Jason on 21 Mar 2004 - 15:34
    QUOTE (#10.2)
    If they treat a missing media player like a missing IE plug-in, then when you try to play an .mp3 or whatever, it would tell you 'no player is installed', and pop open IE and point it to a download center where WMP (and perhaps other choices?) are avalable for the user to pick from...

    What if the user does not have or want Internet access.
    #10.5 markjensen on 21 Mar 2004 - 17:44
    QUOTE (#10.4)
    What if the user does not have or want Internet access.

    Then how did they get those MP3s? A friend? Then I suppose they can get a friend to get them media player software...
    #10.6 Jason on 21 Mar 2004 - 17:58
    QUOTE (#10.5)
    Then how did they get those MP3s? A friend? Then I suppose they can get a friend to get them media player software...

    WMP can not create an MP3 out the box yo uneed to purchase an MP3 add on for it.
    #10.7 Atlas on 21 Mar 2004 - 19:26
    You could also use real software and not crappy WMP.
    #10.8 JaggedFlame on 22 Mar 2004 - 13:31
    You could also stop being a biased moron. Just a tip.
    (2 replies) #11 Jason on 21 Mar 2004 - 17:53
    They might simply just want to play a CD music on their computer.


    Computers should be sold able to do basic tasks and playing a music CD is such a task.
    #11.1 markjensen on 21 Mar 2004 - 21:39
    QUOTE (#1.0)
    They might simply just want to play a CD music on their computer.
    Computers should be sold able to do basic tasks and playing a music CD is such a task.

    It can.

    I don't need ANY software to play a music CD on my computer. Put the CD in, and it starts playing.

    Oh. I use Linux.
    On a Windows PC, Microsoft reads the DATA, uses CPU and other resources to route the sound to the speakers...

    This would be a "Microsoft" issue.
    #11.2 JaggedFlame on 22 Mar 2004 - 13:33
    That's just the minimalistic attitude that I don't agree with. Yeah, I can play a CD without a program. Big deal.

    What if I want to rip the CD? Or tag it? Or check out the artist information and pictures? Or put it in my library? But wait, I shouldn't do all that because [gasp] it REROUTES the sound to my speakers! Oh no!
    (2 replies) #12 Aeonandromere on 21 Mar 2004 - 21:02
    Why doesnt Microsoft just pull out of Europe and stop delivering software to them. This way the EU see's how much the European economy relies on MS technologies. In my opinion MS should just screw over anyone government that sues them.

    Gov: Were suing you for delivering software bundled.
    MS: Ok have it your way we'll just fire any MS employee's in the Europe, stop delivering you products and stop supporting you language so you cannot even use Foreign versions. Happy?

    Not profitable but, its the quicket method to get rid of complaints

    Smite has power!
    #12.1 tapo on 21 Mar 2004 - 22:05
    Problem is, Europe already has a pretty strong adoption of Linux on the desktop, and versions for almost every language are available.

    So, games, etc would start to be written for Linux instead of Windows, since you can't get Windows anymore. So would drivers, etc. And as Linux begins to grow in popularity, it's current chicken/egg problem would be fixed, and it would be ready for adoption in the US.

    Microsoft does not want this to happen. It's better to agree to their rules then to be totally screwed.
    #12.2 roadwarrior on 22 Mar 2004 - 13:00
    Don't you realize that if Microsoft were to do that, they would be PROVING EVERYONE'S CASE AGAINST THEM? That would be the very definition of monopoly power.

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