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Google mail raises privacy fears

Mr magoo   on 05 April 2004 - 09:20 · 54 comments & 7699 views

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This week should have seen a public relations triumph for Google. The company began offering a free e-mail service with 100 times as much storage as Yahoo's $59.99 service. Instead the criticism has taken Google by surprise, as privacy advocates who had never before voiced criticism stepped forward. Google has previously responded to privacy concerns by saying, "we're nice, trust us" or pointing users to the company's mission statement of "do no evil". Such trite sentiments didn't work this time; even The Drudge Report piled in.

Google executives had ignored a fierce internal debate over the ethics of the service and on Wednesday afternoon rushed out a jokey April 1 press release, ostensibly to trump a New York Times scoop.

But it isn't so much Google searching email that has caused the anxiety from privacy watchdogs this week, as the company's confused retention policy. What will Google do with that data? Google's cookie is an index for all your searches until 2038, and sits alongside an Orkut cookie that tells Google - or friendly law enforcement officials or marketeers - exactly who you are. Google's Gmail will complete the picture, indexing private electronic discourse under the main Google search cookie.

"Once users register for Gmail, Google would be able to make that connection, if it chose to," Pam Dixon, head of the World Privacy Forum told the Los Angeles Times. "And if Google ever compared the two sets of data there are some people who would be chilled and embarrassed." Richard Smith, formerly at the Privacy Foundation pointed out that "Google kind of makes it easy to connect all the dots together."

View: The Register

To tag onto this post, here is a very interesting blog by a bloke who used to setup ISP mail systems about the feasability of the project. Conclusion : very possible.
View: Blog Post @ Tao of Mac



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(6 replies) #1 sodapop on 05 Apr 2004 - 09:26
Well, with the FBI taking over the net, I don't think we have to worry about google right now.
#1.1 insanekiwi on 05 Apr 2004 - 10:09
you mean the FBI trying to h4x0r teh xbox?
#1.2 Grepus on 05 Apr 2004 - 10:30
They're not really trying to hack it, they just want access to the system, kinda like everything else. Glad i live in Europe, the FBI have nothing on me :p
#1.3 Beast_4thHM on 05 Apr 2004 - 10:47
Its most easy to hack in Europe ... notice the very vast terror infrastracture operating in Europe
#1.4 SirEvan on 05 Apr 2004 - 10:51
QUOTE
They're not really trying to hack it, they just want access to the system, kinda like everything else. Glad i live in Europe, the FBI have nothing on me :p


no, but MI-5 and Mi-6 do
#1.5 vetMr magoo on 05 Apr 2004 - 10:51
3 myths debunked....
- Security organisations are just as prevalent in the EU as in the US; it's called subtly.
- How it could be any easier to hack in the EU that in the US is beyond me.
- "very vast terror infrastracture operating in Europe" - If this was even vaguely true, respective police forces would shut it down.
#1.6 toadeater on 05 Apr 2004 - 19:05
The intelligence agencies are always playing catch up. Only the common civilian who pays their salaries with his tax $$$ needs to fear them, the terrorists and criminals aren't stupid enough to use things like Gmail, Yahoo & M$ Windows, etc.

They might as well stop wasting our money because they'll never control the internet and other forms of communication now accessible to everyone all over the world. The genie is out of the bottle.

Maybe they'll eventually ban hardware and certain technology, but is that really a better alternative? Will that really stop the criminals? Like guns, then only the criminals will have the illegal tech while the rest of us are left with regulated, fed-approved junk.
#2 Sushubh on 05 Apr 2004 - 10:54
same thing is said abt their deskbar and toolbar.
if u worry abt privacy, u should not surf on the net...
(3 replies) #3 Tech001101 on 05 Apr 2004 - 11:44
we shouldn't worry about google alone. what about webmail providers like Yahoo, Hotmail, etc.... right in there email boxes they clearly state we collect information on users. then you have to wonder who releases your email to spammers.

who's to say yahoo and hotmail don't connect the dots if they needed to for law enforcement?

This is something people don't realize about the internet. First off you have to connect to the internet THROUGH your ISP servers, Then Check your Mail with their or web mail Servers, then you Surf to other WEBSITE Servers and read their content with a nice cookie installed.

point is you have to connect to servers in order to use the internet and the owners can LOG or keep info on anyone they want. So if your really paronoid time to stop using the internet. LOL
#3.1 MuD on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:20
Very well said. Some people are just plain stupid.
#3.2 tommie on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:26
#3.3 spaceman255 on 05 Apr 2004 - 20:31
agree haha
(1 reply) #4 oDD on 05 Apr 2004 - 11:55
What the hell? As if Microsoft isn't doing the same with their passport? Are these reporters ****ing stupid or what?
#4.1 Avenger on 05 Apr 2004 - 18:43
Are you retarded or just simply ignorant? MSN does not examine the contents of your Hotmail messages and generate Ads based off the contents for it's users. So what the hell are you talking about?
(3 replies) #5 Acid on 05 Apr 2004 - 11:59
I still don't get what people are fussing about. Google is not forcing us to sign up for it's free services. If you don't want to take any chances, your best bet is to not sign up. Use logic, it's amazing.
#5.1 DELTA75329 on 05 Apr 2004 - 13:25
Precisely what I was thinking. Well said.
#5.2 Ivand on 05 Apr 2004 - 14:58
I Agree with you there
#5.3 MuD on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:19
Same here.
#6 Fubar on 05 Apr 2004 - 12:15
LOL amazing , a few steps to become 100% none spied upon , close off pc , move into a desert , live off the land
(7 replies) #7 kemical on 05 Apr 2004 - 12:27
install linux, and use pop3. bitch.
#7.1 Acid on 05 Apr 2004 - 12:31
Linux is just as vulnerable for privacy issues/holes as Windows. Know why it's not exploited? The userbase is about 1000:1.

And using Pop3 does not guarantee you any security either.
#7.2 Sushubh on 05 Apr 2004 - 12:33
so that will ensure that the servers where the mails are actually stored are secure and under no human supervision?
#7.3 neufuse on 05 Apr 2004 - 12:38
humm use pop3 and linux, yeah that solves it your email still gets routed through many extra SMTP servers to get to a single location in some cases if an email is bounced around. Not to mention standard email is totaly text based, and not encrypted in any way at all. Who is stoping someone from snooping your email on one of the nodes of the internet as it passes through? That is what the FBI is working to set up is snooping posts with ISP's to do things like this. Linux is not the solution neither is the POP3 protocol.
#7.4 Sub on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:59
2 min with Ethreal and I can get your pop3 password.
#7.5 tapo on 05 Apr 2004 - 16:25
Exactly. Packet sniffers (such as my beloved ettercap) can easily get a pop3 password, of course, they'd need to be on your local network, or have access to a router.

The only way to be 100% privacy secure:

1. Install Linux.

2. Setup your own email server on said Linux computer. Use GPG to encrypt all email.

3. Disable cookies, and the sending of the referral data in your web browser.

But personally, I don't care if a computer finds out what a friend emails me about, I'm very likely going to switch to Google mail.
#7.6 neufuse on 05 Apr 2004 - 19:45
tapo - I still fail to see how Linux makes it more secure, you are still sending packets of information across numerous networks. Anyone at anyone of thoes points you hop though can be packet sniffing also and catching your same information. Linux does not help or make worse the situation.
#7.7 tapo on 05 Apr 2004 - 20:12
My post was aimed at the tinfoil hat people, who would be concerned that Windows would "phone home" to Microsoft. Personally, I don't think it does. And the setup I mentioned above is an extreme nobody would really need to take.
(1 reply) #8 Remote on 05 Apr 2004 - 13:20
I think that people that are invested in hotmail, yahoo, etc, are going release $hit about this service. Everyone loves google cause its a simple and reliable search engine which they dominate the market who invest millions trying to beat google. Now that they are going to have an email service for FREE with better features then other paid services, its scary for the big companies.

It's not too much different then the presidental race, each runner is gonna try and ruin the compitions reputation
#8.1 koppit on 05 Apr 2004 - 14:59
I was just going to say something along those lines. Of course they're going to talk $hit about Google, they're a multi-million dollar company that's surpassed both msn and yahoo searches in terms of search power and technology. I mean, they have what .. "©2004 Google - Searching 4,285,199,774 web pages" ... 4.28 billion webpages cached and searchable?! I'd sign up for this in a second, especially if they offered an email client to boot. It's easy to use 3rd party software to encrypt your emails, and with 1GB of storage, you could keep all of your emails from the past decade AND for the next decade
(2 replies) #9 Red Dragon on 05 Apr 2004 - 14:04
Man, and I was looking forward to this. Oh Well.
#9.1 koppit on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:00
It's still something to look forward to, don't be a sheep and believe what everyone says instantly.
#9.2 MuD on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:22
Yeah, listen to koppit.
#10 griffinme on 05 Apr 2004 - 14:10
Never, ever put anything in an email you wouldn't put on a postcard unless you use decent encryption. Even then be careful.
#11 Matt500 on 05 Apr 2004 - 14:29
I'm just gonna wait and see how it goes
#12 hardgiant on 05 Apr 2004 - 14:54
Encryption
(2 replies) #13 shmengie on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:09
SECURITY. PRIVACY.

ohmigod. just typing those words have surely alerted the trilateral commission to my whereabouts. the only thing keeping me safe now is my aluminum foil hat.

this may be my last transmission...
#13.1 MuD on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:23
Hahaha!
#13.2 PseudoRandomDragon on 05 Apr 2004 - 15:52
We are very glad that this is your last transmission.
#14 XanDaMan on 05 Apr 2004 - 16:18
Er... simple

If your scared/concred, dont use it.

OMG DAT IS TEH ULTIMATE THEORY!!!....
#15 Gism0 on 05 Apr 2004 - 16:29
I didn't think about that..

Google knows what I like to search for, my name, my friends (orkut), and if i use gmail will know about all conversations I have!

This could all be a huge conspiracy set up by the government!!
(1 reply) #16 astrokat on 05 Apr 2004 - 16:59
I hope google does something about spam, i wouldn't want viagra ads targeting me every time i log in.
#16.1 Remote on 05 Apr 2004 - 17:28
Maybe a past gf is trying to give you a hint buy adding your email to those mailing lists?
#17 divertom15 on 05 Apr 2004 - 19:09
QUOTE
The company began offering a free e-mail service with 100 times as much storage as Yahoo's $59.99 service
I dont see that it has started offering the service yet!
#18 senior on 05 Apr 2004 - 19:17
Immediately when I heard about one gig capacity on free email i thought of potential abuses. Google will have a very lucrative position as a marketing company in the near future, connecting your interests with your email. Also with one gig storage and wide spread use regulation is gonna be tough. What will stop file trading groups from using gmails as pseudo filepost sites..
(1 reply) #19 RangerLG on 05 Apr 2004 - 19:41
They need to offer 1 gig to hold all the extra spam that people will receive!
#19.1 spaceman255 on 05 Apr 2004 - 20:38
why will we get more spam??? i wouldn't think we would
(2 replies) #20 underthebridge on 05 Apr 2004 - 21:03
I am sure these email accounts will be used to share warez, 1GB lol...

imagine
#20.1 Marduk on 05 Apr 2004 - 21:56
LOL ya, by UBER kiddie n00bs.
#20.2 MuD on 05 Apr 2004 - 22:08
Who gives a damn what people are gonna use it for. It's their f*cking business.
#21 saluyot on 06 Apr 2004 - 02:16
oh yeah, i want my 1 gb email! no matter
(2 replies) #22 Ev1lg0at on 06 Apr 2004 - 03:21
This Gmail is just a good example of what happens in our everyday life ANYWAY. Take oyster cards, credit cards, cookies, net logs, all these emails account mentioned, servers, ISPs, I mean you name it. And the fact is, privacy is simply no longer a term for an internet user or a computer user if u like. Yea Linux protects you various attacks and data privacy which is stored IN your hard drive. But come on, the more we go further from the year 2000, the more we see that the data stored locally aint the future - a lot of people tell me oh why don’t u store it on a disc, floppy, HD, flash memory, duo cards, etc etc etc and i just reply - why don’t u just upload it somewhere? i mean its just so much easier - internet is everywhere and everyone is literally watching - take it the government or little kids.

I just think it’s a shame we've come this far and there's so much more to go. I just get the feeling that - ye okay im not being watched.... UNTIL im supposed to be watched! in other words, why would someone want to watch me when all I do is ordinary stuff but once i am doing something *lets say* illegally then it is incredibly easy to watch, track, spy on me or anybody else.

Anyway, sorry for babbling on and on, i think u got my point.
#22.1 tapo on 06 Apr 2004 - 06:02
What is the benefit of remote storage? With local storage I can upgrade my space for cheap, and share it remotely.

Remote storage already lost out to local storage. Remember dumb unix terminals?
#22.2 shmengie on 06 Apr 2004 - 15:23
as .net becomes implemented more and more, the lines between 'local' and 'remote' will become less visable and less important. when all of your app's are stored and launched remotely, remote data storage is the next logical step. think about it, it's pretty cool. YOUR pc with YOUR desktop and YOUR app's and YOUR data from any terminal in the world. (xp already has this, almost.)

of course, security, blah, blah, blah.

dumb terminals made sense in the early days of pc's mainly because storage cost something like $5 per MB back in the day (a total guesstimate.) now with storage under $1 per GB, local data storage is cost-effective. so why go remote? 2 reasons (at least.)

1) as much as everyone knows that they should back up their data, not everyone does. with tax returns and irreplaceable home movies at risk, bigdatastoragecompany.com makes sense. they have raid arrays with daily backups. losing data would require catastrophic events.

2) it'll be just like star trek!

even with broadband, xfer'ing large files will still be an issue. so of course, local storage will still exist. the remote will be like your hard drive and your hard drive will be like ram. there'll probably be a new layer in your OS which handles the transparent uploading of data - syncing, really.

then again, i could just be talking out of my ass...
#23 maxanon on 06 Apr 2004 - 20:37
when is this coming out?

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