Neowin.net

iirc there are some licence problems.
And yes what they are doing is boring. Kinda like opening paint or wordpad. Opening the .doc file format would be interesting.

Then, MS Says ok we are working very hard on the next release, amazing, tonne's of new features, but the release will be estimated around 2006/2007. > Bashing.
Those are ms customers eagerly waiting for it.

Security Problems Because of there sloppy, quick jobs > Bashing.
Then, MS announces a delay on the release of SP2 to make sure of it > Bashing.
Those are ms customers because it is annoying and costly. And they paid for it so they have every right to do so.
Those are ms customers eagerly waiting for SP2.

Why do people bash M.S. every time they do something, damn. Everything they do is wrong to people with just grow an "Anti-Microsoft" feeling or something. Come on now, I don't see how MS can be making mistakes in your eyes. But, it is your opinion, and I respect that of you and others. I just wanted to state mine.
Sure i respect your opinion. However you might want to investigate in ms history and its business practices.

So tons of linux weasels on the Internet (on sites like here, OSNews or Slashdot) are MS customers? Sure.

it's part of the Linux culture

You really seem to know what you are talking about.

QUOTE

Sure i respect your opinion. However you might want to investigate in ms history and its business practices.

business is one thing, software is another. he was using examples that were about software. i dont condone what "may" have happened a long time ago, but that was then, and this is now. i belive that most of it was just hear-say and then posted on some website that very few people know of. once people like you see that MS are trying, then MS will never have a chance to change is "undeserved" image.

STV

Then get the facts dude. Read a few books. And they have not changed the way they do stuff. And this stuff is not hear-say.

eris, you dont know that for sure. just because there is a bunch of stuff about microsoft flying around, it doesnt mean that it is true. unless they do something that is extremely disgusting and WRONG, then my positive view of MS will never change. I have read webpages, books, and articles that target MS in various ways. I have read enough to know that blame is always placed on microsoft becasue they are microsoft and that they have a lot of money and power.

i would rather give them the benifit of the doubt, than always be bitter towards them. do you feel better because you have this perception of microsoft? your perception and views are respectful and they are your own. my views and perceptions are my own. why do you feel the need to try and convert people to our way of thinking? you are looking at microsoft from a different angle than I am. just because you hate/dislike them doesnt mean that I have to adhere to what you say.

i have made up my mind after all that I have read, that I like microsoft and have respect for them and the software that they produce.

STV

STV,

Before you go around claiming that things that Microsoft did are just heresay written in blogs on the web, you might want to talk to some adults who have actually lived a few years through Microsoft's emergence.

I started on computers back in the days where CPM and DOS were the two major Operating Systems. Microsoft really did a lot of unscrupulous things. They helped bring about a common platform, which is nice. But they have, and continue to, lock everyone else out in their attempt to completely dominate any potential competition.

The desire to lead isn't the problem. It has been the unethical and illegal methods used.

QUOTE

But they have, and continue to, lock everyone else out in their attempt to completely dominate any potential competition.

and that is why linux and frefox have the share that they do have. i dont think that this is unethical or illegal, but that is open to interpretation and perception of the situations brought to light.

i think that the reason MS has what it has today, is because the people chose them, by buying their software. if you are looking for someone to blame, blame the shareholders.

microsoft has done nothing to hurt me, so i dont really have a reason to dislike them. im sorry that i like and respect them.

STV

STV just shut up and troll somewhere else.
RTFA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft#Controversy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_criticisms_of_Microsoft

You have no idea what you are talking about STV. Stop making a fool out of yourself.

eris,

There is nothing wrong with STV sharing his opinions. Just as there is nothing wrong with you, or I, or anyone else sharing opinions.

The only problem is when people get hostile and flame, or when troll comments are made (like all the childish "DIE DIE DIE" comments that seem to be so common).

I don't have anything against Microsoft's products. It is their illegal monopolistic actions that I have issue with. STV may be too young to have personal knowledge of this, so his opinions are based more on Microsoft's current public actions. He may be correct, and Microsoft may have totally shed many, many years of subsersive activities. I doubt it. But, there again, that is just an opinion.

I definetly agree with your comments markjensen. However STV seems to be practicing active ignorance. He totally ignores what we say instead of thinking oh they might be right so i should do some research. But no he continuous saying ms is the best company in the world. (exaggerated) Kinda like someone who thinks environmental protection is a total waste of money but has never seen the actual damage done to nature because he lives in a city although his lungs are compareable to the ones of a person who smokes.

Oh, I agree. STV is a solid pro-Microsoft person. He said so, himelf. But, I also see Linux (and other OS) users with a similar attitude about their choice of Operating System.

Just as nothing anyone can say will shake the faith of a extreme Pro-Linux, or Pro-Mac supporter, nothing will shake the faith of an extreme Pro-Microsoft supporter.

The rest of us try to live in the middle somewhere, and let it go after it reaches an impasse.

100% ack

Anyone should be pro whatever he wants to however ignoring the facts is silly.

eris (3.10): i am sorry that you feel that way, but pushing your anger on me will solve nothing. and will only cause conflict.

markjensen (3.11): thanks for saying that everyone has an opinion (that is what i was trying to say as well). I am 18 and as such your analysis of me is somewhat correct. I dont have personal knowledge of this, but I have read stories about "the past". people can see an action from many different angles. many of these stories include commentaries and opinions of the situations that occured. there should be a place that objectively says what happened and allow ME to make my own opinion of the situation. it seems that many people have the same exact opinion about microsoft because they all read the same opinionated article or book.

eris (3.12): I dont think that I am practicing any type of ignorance. i may be naive, but i am not ignorant. I like and respect MS, but i dont think that they are the best company in the world.

markjensen (3.13): you are right, i am a "solid pro-Microsoft person". you are correct in what you say about the similar attitude, except for one thing. I am not trolling this board, I may be to one extreme, but an i really trolling? am i putting other opertating systems down? area91, is an example of a pro-microsoft troll, and i dont think that I am one (not even close). just because i like and try to defend microsoft doenst mean that i am a troll.

thanks for all of your comments,
STV

Last edited by 40230 on 27 Jun 2004 - 02:50

stv: making competitiors products crash or fake error messages on purpose is bad. Obviously you should do some research which you appear to not have done and you also might want to look up the defenition of ignorance. I think my environmental protection comparison fits this situation quite well.

QUOTE (#3.16)

stv: making competitiors products crash or fake error messages on purpose is bad. Obviously you should do some research which you appear to not have done and you also might want to look up the defenition of ignorance. I think my environmental protection comparison fits this situation quite well.

well, eris, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it, like i have said many times over. i just dont understand why it is so important that you get ME to dislike microsoft? if you look at something and expect it to be bad, then that is what you will find, because that is how you want to inerpret it. the same goes for me as well as everyone else on the planet.

i have not seen or heard of any cases where your claim "making competitiors products crash or fake error messages on purpose" is a PROVEN fact. the only thing that they may be responsible for is with holding knowledge of certain APIs.

i wish that you would stop forcing your own views on me. and again i ask, is it so important that you get ME to dislike microsoft?

my opinions of microsoft, are my own and as such, you dont have any weight in my view of microsoft or what they do.

i propose a stale-mate, because it seems obvious that i cant convince you that they are not bad, in very way that you cant convince me that they are bad.

have a nice day,
STV

I am not forcing you to do anything. If you think the world is flat and that is your opinion ou are entitled to it. Just dont expect people to take you seriously.

so let me get this straight. if someone doesnt believe what you believe, then they are wrong?

STV

Believing and facts are two seperate things. If you believe in god that is fine with me because we cant prove whether it exists or not. If you ignore facts you are wrong. But do whatever suits you best.

The tools they have released so far are tools which their developers have built for their internal use. I think it is wonderful that those developers have convinced the bosses to allow them to share those tools - many of which would have not been available otherwise - with the world!

That said, I suspect the developers who convinced them to do this sold them on the idea that by doing this they will make more friends in the developer community. Who can blame them for wanting to build stronger relationships with the developers who spends thousands of dollars on their development tool, operating systems, business software, and MSDN (Developer Network) subscriptions every year?

It happens.

Well better kill yourself then, no point in living.

I guess if you can't get the attention by having your name in the post you have to do it by complaining in the comments...

(Sorry, just a pet peeve)

If you're going to bash something, you should at least:

1) Speak proper and understandable English.
2) Have a reason for your bashing.
3) Have an IQ > 50
4) Learn not to hold down keys for longer than 1/2 second.

Your grade: 0/4 - better luck next time

andareed you make him seem like a "smarte guy"

I wonder how with his IQ he managed to register at Neowin to post this comment.

mentas' post is so stupid, that he is probably joking. i dont think you should get bent out of shape because he is either 1) kidding or 2) really doesnt understand anything. either way, the post is stupid and should not be taken seriously.

anyway, i think that this is a good thing. at least they are trying to be more open minded. remember, people usually attack something that they dont understand. they are probably learning a lot from OSS and the community, that they are willing to test the waters. i dont think that this can be considered a bad thing. unless you are too close minded to see that MS may actually be changing.

STV

stv please tell what microsoft is trying to do? im curous.

my guess is as good as any. but if i had to guess, i would say that they are trying to connect with their customers and the community that has formed around their platform(s). this release, any future releases, as well as the other ones are a sign of what i stated in my previous post. I also think that they are trying to make good, but find it hard to because of share holders and all that other crap that public companies go through. not everything is simple, there are different ways to look at something, it just so happens that you are looking at microsoft from another angle.

just my $0.02.

STV

dude...you're not funny anymore