Posted by Mr magoo on 24 August 2004 - 20:20 · 70 comments & 8198 views
Real Network's recent media blitz has paid off well. Real have announced that they've sold 1 million songs (49 cents / song) in the first week of operation. This has been mostly through their 'Freedom of Choice' promotion. Real's promotion was battered with abuse from a very vocal minority of Apple enthusiasts. On the whole, iPod users have much enjoyed the cheaper song prices; indeed, many didn't know of the DRM stopping them from buying from other companies.

Real claims that it's equivalent to the iTunes music store, Rhapsody, has 500,000 members, and that it's content can be played on over 100 devices. They claim to have 625,000 songs available for purchase / download in the AAC and (more critically) iPod compatible format. Real managed to reverse engineer Apple’s DRM technology to allow them to sell songs that will be compatible, and usable, on Apple’s popular iPod device. Very good news for Real, very bad news for Apple. Although initially mocked, Real might (excuse the pun) become a real competitor to Apple’s music offering. Apple have, up to this point, faced little to no serious competition in the online music market. There is a real possibility that this might change.

Apple is very dependant on their new music business, and serious activity could prove quite damaging to their bottom line and overal profit margin. They've already stated that they don’t make very much money on individual music sales (how much so, we can't be sure). The effect of a long running and successful competitor to their offering could be very damaging. What they could do to salvage the situation? They might be attempt to license 'Fairplay' (their DRM technology), and in doing so make up lost profits from that.

The 49 cent 'Freedom of Choice' campaign will uhndoubtedly cost Real dearly. However, there is the very obvious benefit of pinching Apple’s much needed customers. Whether they'll keep on coming over to Real after they cease the 49 cent campaign, however, is another matter. What will be really interesting to watch is Microsoft’s entrance to the online music market (expected imminently). Microsoft have negotiated individually with major record labels, and will have over 1 million songs to sell when launched – more than the number on sale by iTunes and Real.

View: Real | Harmony homepage
View: FreedomOfMusicChoice.org
View: Apple.com | iTunes


The following Support Tools have been updated in Service Pack 2:
bitsadmin.exe
extract.exe
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ipseccmd.exe
netdom.exe
replmon.exe



There are 70 additional comments
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(11 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #1 Posted by Huezo on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:22
Argh, damn Real. DIE!!!
Quote this comment #1.1 Posted by lilmoonee on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:25
u dont like competition? it makes everything cheaper for u and me u know...
Quote this comment #1.2 Posted by Fonze on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:26
Argh, damn Apple. DIE!!!
Quote this comment #1.3 Posted by vetMr magoo on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:27
news post updated. How people can moan at cheaper prices and a bit of competition is beyond me.
Quote this comment #1.4 Posted by stuey82 on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:49
Your sooo right! Healthy competition is good. Cheaper prices and more for you. You can't really complain at that!!
Quote this comment #1.5 Posted by bogd on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:38
I seriously don't think that Apple is going to lower the prices of its songs seeing how this 49 cents per song deal is just a limited promotion ran by Real. Some people tend to forget that. Apple could offer songs at a better bit rate, but i doubt they will lower their prices.

Plus, all it takes is a simple fix to the iPod's firmware to disable Harmony, which means Real would have to recrack the iPod or remove its freedom of choice banner. Doing so will turn people away from Real or Apple.

Last edited by 15377 on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:21
Quote this comment #1.6 Posted by shao on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:41
Argh, Damn trolls. DIE!!!
Quote this comment #1.7 Posted by NetRyder on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:44
Heh, deal with it man. Your life isn't ending.
Consumers want the best products at the best prices...that's just the way it works. If Apple and it's zealot-defenders don't realize that, it's their loss.
Quote this comment #1.8 Posted by Bling3k12 on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:46
The only thing is that Real preaches freedom of choice... yet I can't buy their music on my Mac?
Quote this comment #1.9 Posted by aristotle-dude on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:13
There is nothing wrong with lower prices and fair competion but this is predatory pricing. They are selling way below cost unless they got a sweet deal from the labels.

IIRC, Apple pays about 70 cents of each song to the labels.
Quote this comment #1.10 Posted by Starcom826 on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:06
It isn't predatory pricing. Real is at significant risk in operating at a loss if in fact they are paying 70 cents to the label (which you have no way of finding out). Predatory pricing would be more along the lines of Microsoft and IE, where microsoft could at very little risk undercut netscape by offering their browser for free.
Quote this comment #1.11 Posted by aristotle-dude on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:38
Ok, you're right, it's stupid business practices that should have gone out with the dot com bust. You can only offer a loss leader if you expect to sell something to the consumers later at a higher profit margin. A classic example of this was the iTMS when it first opened. The initial operating costs were so high and the margins so low that Apple was willing to take a loss in hope of selling more iPods at a decent profit.
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #2 Posted by figgy on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:27
Repeat after me: 'The is no money in Online Music Stores'
Apple makes its money out of the hardware selling iPod.
Quote this comment #2.1 Posted by dp123 on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:45
Repeat after me: Apple has posted a small profit for the last two quarters on the iTMS.
Quote this comment #2.2 Posted by digistil on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:10
Figgy, repeat after me: "I will not believe everything I read/see/hear/smell/touch."

If Apple was only making money through the sale of iPods, why would they be against Real wanting to sell music that is compatible with the iPod???
Quote this comment #2.3 Posted by bogd on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:24
QUOTE
If Apple was only making money through the sale of iPods, why would they be against Real wanting to sell music that is compatible with the iPod???



is it because the iTMS is pretty much self sufficient and it pays for itself while the iPod brings in the big dollars for Apple? Also, if the iTMS lost sales due to Real, Apple would have to dip into other pockets to keep the store up.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #3 Posted by Varsity on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:27
Wow. If you want to sell stuff, just mention freedom! Or democracy! Or the US Flag!

Americans...
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #4 Posted by electic102 on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:29
It has nothing to do with that Varsity, don't embarass yourself. IT has to do with .49 cents a song vs. .99 cents a song. But I dont liek real and will never buy or download any of their crap. And no, I am not an Apple user either.
Quote this comment #4.1 Posted by Varsity on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:31
Sarcasm...wink...

I'm in the same boat as you: freedom of choice for hardware maybe, but it still needs Realplayer.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #5 Posted by MEMO.INC on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:29
Excelet, competiton makes prices lower!!!
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #6 Posted by Xabora on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:32
Saweet, this is really good news!
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #7 Posted by Mister Lamar on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:33
Real is the company, VIVA real
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #8 Posted by MaddogMDD on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:33
Sometimes it takes an a**hole company (Real) to keep good companies (i.e. Apple) from getting too fat n' happy. Competition is good, even if it is from Real. It'll only make Apple better and consumers happier.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #9 Posted by twinn233 on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:35
Freedom of Choice!? Not at all can you use it on a mac... no. There is no freedom of choice. They've just broken into Apple's iPod which is just wrong.

"Microsoft have negotiated individually with major record labels, and will have over 1 million songs to sell when launched – more than the number on sale by iTunes and Real."
Actually iTunes does have over a million songs selling on the iTMS
(9 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #10 Posted by Hurmoth on 24 Aug 2004 - 20:37
Real should die! KILL REAL!
Quote this comment #10.1 Posted by bluarash on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:15
I am so sick of this kind of thinking. Twisted 'group think' that misses a good deal for 'us' as consumers. Not all of us are Apple 'whores' or groupies'. As a side note it should be stated that I hold nothing against Apple, but rather that I have no deep rooted feelings about them either. (hate or love)

These type of comments remind me of the 'me-too' from the earlier days of AOL. I've got to look hip by getting down on the evil company like everyone else. I for one look foward to competition as it allows me to get more as a consumer. Hopefully Microsoft will bring something to the table as well sometime in the near future...
Quote this comment #10.2 Posted by Hurmoth on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:53
Dude, I am not an Apple whore! I don't own an Apple (just an iPod), so go tell your sad lil Real story to someone who cares!
Quote this comment #10.3 Posted by bluarash on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:05
You actually missed the point of my post. I don't care about Real or any company for that matter. What I want is an inexpensive solution. If Real offers this for my 'iPod' I will take it, and if Apple went cheaper I would convert back. (BTW, I own an ipod also.)
Quote this comment #10.4 Posted by Hurmoth on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:48
I got your point, but I've heard this song and dance before ... if Apple doesn't want other companies making music compat. with the iPod that's Apple's choice. Last time I checked, Apple made the iPod just as Microsoft made Windows and has the right to put what software they want pre-installed on it. Of course, this is my opinion!
Quote this comment #10.5 Posted by oik on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:00
shh hurmoth... if he's buying from real, he's increasing the amount of money they are losing from selling for so cheap... let him go... he's helping the cause.
Quote this comment #10.6 Posted by NetRyder on 25 Aug 2004 - 00:38
...helping "the cause"
Funniest thing I've heard today. Someone should think you're fighting for the freedom of a nation or something.
Quote this comment #10.7 Posted by Hurmoth on 25 Aug 2004 - 02:36
Buying from Real still supports Real!
Quote this comment #10.8 Posted by NetRyder on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:01
Umm, Hurmoth...the Microsoft analogy is completely flawed. Microsoft may make Windows and bundle whatever software they want with it, but they don't stop you from installing software that competes with theirs, do they? Last time I checked, they didn't. I quite happily use Firefox as my primary browser instead of IE.
Quote this comment #10.9 Posted by matric on 25 Aug 2004 - 12:53
QUOTE
but they don't stop you from installing software that competes with theirs, do they? Last time I checked


Too true. It's OK when Apple does it but if it's Microsoft, then GEE they have gone too far!

Apple, a bit too much juice, not enough substance for my liking.
(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #11 Posted by shao on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:45
But on the positive side, all these cheap-o music is costing real dearly. Aint that a shame!
Quote this comment #11.1 Posted by NetRyder on 24 Aug 2004 - 21:58
Don't get your hopes up. The 49c campaign was launched just to give them a head-start.
It's not going to remain that way, of course. Even after it ends, Real will continue to offer 192k AACs at 99c/song as compared to Apple's 128k AACs at 99c/song. Still a very good deal, and I'm sure there will be lots of people who will continue to use their service.
Quote this comment #11.2 Posted by vetMr magoo on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:00
exactly- but whats to say the price doesn't bounce up to say 70c? Still cometitive, still cheaper than apple.
Quote this comment #11.3 Posted by bluarash on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:01
Something makes me believe that they are not loosing money. They may claim to be, but I highly doubt it. One has to remember that these are very poor recordings and the bandwidth required to download them is nothing. My guess would be that they could ajust the cost overhead so that they could make a profit even selling the songs at .29 per or $4.35 an album.
Quote this comment #11.4 Posted by dp123 on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:17
bluarash, the issue isn't overhead, its licensing. Licensing is costing about 70 - 80 cents per track. (So selling at 50 cents is isntantly unfeasible and a loss leader.) Thus each store can at best recoup a 20 - 30% margin, which is generally wiped out by the overhead costs.

However, iTMS is posting slight profits, and Real claims that they are making money on downloads and subscriptions... of course, at the same time their operating expenses are much higher and they continue to lose 4 million a quarter... (don't forget their Antitrust lawsuit, etc...) and much more so this quarter (A million tracks nets $500,000 which is probably less than they spent on the campaign... nevermidn the other losses due to licensing). Napster is in a similar boat... Roxio seemingly sold their software to float the 4-6 million quarterly loss for Napster for the next 5 years (got 80 million for software).

Last edited by 9953 on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:23
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #12 Posted by SimplyPotatoes on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:49
the real music service is great. i do dislike how i have to use a "hack" to get it to burn cd's when i have a cd mounted with alcohol 120%. that is pretty annoying, regardless the preview of entire songs is fantastic. there software is very fast for me and i enjoy the colors they have chosen, i couldn't be more satisfied with there products, as of now.
(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #13 Posted by oik on 24 Aug 2004 - 22:59
1) surprising they haven't gone completely bankrupt at the loss they're taking selling songs for $.49
2) surprising 500k people even know real exists and is in the music download biz
Quote this comment #13.1 Posted by NetRyder on 25 Aug 2004 - 00:31
1) They're a rather large company. They wouldn't launch the campaign if they knew they'd go bankrupt. As I said earlier, the 49c campaign is just a way to get an initial sales boost.
2) Yes, it's called open-mindedness...something that lots of folks here lack.
Quote this comment #13.2 Posted by oik on 25 Aug 2004 - 03:05
open mindedness?

that's interesting to hear about real and the people who use it as i look and see that i can't use it on my mac.

let's talk about open mindedness while we discuss buymusic.com and all the other music stores that have either failed or are failing.

at $.49, real will be taking quite a big hit and they're going to have to make it up somewhere. just ending the promotion isn't going to please anyone... so while i'm sure they'll have plenty of repeat buyers simply based on the fact that it's 192kbps... a lot more people are doing it just because it's cheaper.

once real ends this promotion, they'll lose a lot of their customers.
Quote this comment #13.3 Posted by NetRyder on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:08
Do you really care? Given the over-excessive loyalty towards Apple of most Mac users here, I doubt any of you would even bother to try it even if it existed.
Quit being bitter and let the people who want to use it use it.

Last edited by 12081 on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:15
Quote this comment #13.4 Posted by oik on 26 Aug 2004 - 01:48
ahh, yes, once again it's my fault because i'm an apple user. excuse me.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #14 Posted by o83zero on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:01
Frankly, if I did buy music (people still do this nowadays?), I'd rather pay the extra 50 cents and support Apple, than support Real.
(7 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #15 Posted by tHeDoSe on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:08


who says they are open to competition? I call bullsh!t, if they are complaining about it ie: Fairplay, openness and accessibility then their software/website/online store should be!
Quote this comment #15.1 Posted by DrunkenMaster on 25 Aug 2004 - 02:40
And look at iTunes. For a long time it was a Mac only service. Windows customers are the majority and provide the largest market share. They're better to build their market on Windows first and then expand then to start small and go big .... which was Apple's BIG mistake.
Quote this comment #15.2 Posted by tRr on 25 Aug 2004 - 03:00
Apple never advertised "Freedom" when it was Mac only.
Quote this comment #15.3 Posted by oik on 25 Aug 2004 - 03:06
agreed.

and for a website called freedom of music choice... why is everything about apple?

not one message about drm'ed wma's on osx or anything else.

if you want open mindedness or freedom, real isn't the company to look at.
Quote this comment #15.4 Posted by tomaras on 25 Aug 2004 - 17:51
What that message really says is that it only works on probably 95% of the computers out there. I guess they will have to work to get that all important and extremely profitable last five percent!
Quote this comment #15.5 Posted by dp123 on 25 Aug 2004 - 20:31
There are over 2.5 million iPod owners, half of which use Macs. If you wanted to claim only a small percentage of Mac Users would use Real, let's say 25% of 20 million users... (This is quite conservative) That's 5 million potential users.

Real has 550,000 subscribers... 1/10th the size of the Mac user base. And, yes, it is a profitable user base.
Quote this comment #15.6 Posted by tomaras on 26 Aug 2004 - 18:44
There's a problem with your math because you wrongly assume that most of the purchased music that get's downloaded ends up on a portable player.
Quote this comment #15.7 Posted by dp123 on 26 Aug 2004 - 21:21
No, nothing wrong with my math... Real's marketshare is 1/10 of those who own iPods. 1/40th of those who own Macs. So... for everyone claiming that Real should focus on Windows because the Mac market is too small are just deluding themselves. Real would DIE to have the marketshare that Macs have. Doesn't matter where the downloads end up... just that the market is orders of magnitude greater than the existing Real market.

Last edited by 9953 on 26 Aug 2004 - 23:23
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #16 Posted by eilegz on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:20
well lets wait microsoft to kill apple and real with their msn music store included with windows media player 10
Quote this comment #16.1 Posted by AV0X on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:30
That's going to hurt Apple BADLY, almost everyone will upgrade to WMP10 and they'll see the MSN music store when they click on "Music Store".
Quote this comment #16.2 Posted by aristotle-dude on 24 Aug 2004 - 23:41
eilegz, do you ever get tired of being a fan boy? It's not the techology stupid, it's the licencing terms and user experience. If the MSN store is not easy to use and if they have the same crappy licensing DRM terms which are inconsistent between songs/albums, it will fail to topple Apple's iTMSjust as other WMA based stores have.

People like have consistent licensing terms for the tracks they buy, that is why iTMS has been a success with both windows and mac users. They don't give a flying rats ass if the store uses Apple or MS technology as long as it works with the mp3 player they use and the majority of users have iPods which works with *gasp* the iTMS but not DRMed WMA.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #17 Posted by nX07 on 25 Aug 2004 - 00:13
I agree with aristole-dude, even though I do not use nor plan to use the iTMS, I would hate for the current DRM system to be implimented into their store system. Hell, I have a hard enough time using other online stores thru DRM's.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #18 Posted by Mr Mialo on 25 Aug 2004 - 00:40
Now if only fuel prices could get cheaper instead of more expensive!

(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #19 Posted by phkhoury on 25 Aug 2004 - 02:16
For those who still don't know, AllofMp3 is the best

allofmp3
Quote this comment #19.1 Posted by plasticparadox on 25 Aug 2004 - 03:55
Yeah, seems kinda dodgy to me. I don't wanna turn my credit card info over to some shady russian website, thanks.
Quote this comment #19.2 Posted by bogd on 25 Aug 2004 - 03:59
you can use paypal instead

that's if you trust paypal
Quote this comment #19.3 Posted by tkyoshi on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:06
Interesting, i did some research and they have been featured on TechTV as well and there are no fraud complaints as far as i can see.

SMH
TechTV
Museekster

Pretty interesting, it is probably illegal for use here in N.America but since when can you always follow the law exactly.

And if you don't want to use credit card then you can use paypal, unfortunately Paypal is temp unavailable on their site.

TechTV Board - Allofmp3

Last edited by 11767 on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:13
Quote this comment #19.4 Posted by aristotle-dude on 25 Aug 2004 - 04:45
Allofmp3 is only legal within the borders of Russia due to their differing copyright laws. They do not pay any money to the artists or labels. It is no better than paying for Kazza.

That site makes no claim to follow any other laws other than those of russia and if you read the fine print, they tell international users to use it at your own risk. In other words, you are not safe from prosecution for copyright infringement if you use their service and are a citizen of any other country than russia. Get it?
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #20 Posted by aboi on 25 Aug 2004 - 06:06
well to tell you the truth i support real on this one. altho i dont use their store. i think a little compitition is a good thing.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #21 Posted by belto on 25 Aug 2004 - 08:58
i am about to cancel my subscription with realplayer.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #22 Posted by ACTIONpack on 25 Aug 2004 - 13:27
I can't believe apple users start a partion to stop Real to offer AAC songs for ipod to download. They always says they want choices but when some other companies it that is not Apple it's bad and wrong. That's why Apple will never compete with Microsoft or any other company. They say one thing and do the complete opposite. Just like the Apple commerical what was shown on SuperBowl.

Anyway back to want I was going to type about. I was talking to a apple website writer about how Real sold 650,000 songs in the first week. I mess up it was really 1million but back to my point. And he said it does not matter when songs goes back up to there normal price people will not using it and go back to iTunes because it's better and the company has loss money when doing this thing. What this does not gets me that every company that start something will loss money in the beginning but other time they will get it back. Real will loss custmers when the price goes to 99 or 88 cents. What ever the normal will be but people will stay with Real and iTunes will loss money because of Real.
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #23 Posted by Judge Roy Bean on 25 Aug 2004 - 19:40
(Rather than stick two or three replies into the middle of several rants, I'll just hit it all at once, here.)

Easy to see that none of you are business people. A few of you have actually hit close to the head of the nail by stating, "it's the licensing fees", but that's still off-base by a little bit more than you realize.

Having seen this very kind of thing in my former life, I can tell you that there are costs, and then there are costs. First topic up for inspection is, where did that $0.70 per track come from? Sounds to me like it was PFA (Plucked From Air). Any reliable sources for that figure?

Second, why wouldn't there be volume discounting? Nobody engaged in commerce over the last 100 years has done any business without that magical lure of discounts for volume purchases, thus making even bigger profits possible.

Third, who says that the online stores are reporting accurate figures?! This is where I have a bit more knowledge than the average Joe about what goes on in the real world (pun definitely not intended). It should go without saying that no one, repeat - no one - can access the true sales figures unless the seller gets a huge dose of honesty. To put it politely, keeping more than one set of books, particularly where download logs from the server are involved, is just too attractive an option to resist. You know the old saying, "It's only wrong if you get caught."

So much for business, now to address other concerns, small as they are.

Like some of you, I don't give a rip about who's who. As far as I'm concerned, a rotten apple is still a rotten apple, no matter how many fan-boys defend it - that just proves that their taste buds have atrophied beyond repair. And I wasn't picking on Apple, the corporation - at least, not exclusively.

In my former life, I had to give people the benefit of the doubt as much as possible, so I'm willing to cut Real some slack here. Why? Easy. Ask yourselves "Why do I hate Real so much?" The answer to that is easy, too. You hate them because they put out crappy software, at first for free, then they had the balls to charge for it, even though it was still crappy. And to top it all off, they invaded your privacy. You may also have issues with their beguiling the Justice Department, vis-a-vis Microsoft's position as the BMOC, but that's small potatoes.

So why not let them metamorphose into something else, say.... an online music store. If they can fairly kick butt there, then I say, more power to them. If they get caught with their knickers down around their ankles, then too bad for 'em.

And last but not least, anybody wanna hazard a guess as to how many Mac's there are in the world, versus how many iPods? Any business majors out there who can outline in 50 words or less why the Mac isn't supported, and why it probably won't be, unless by accident? Freedom of choice doesn't mean "universal freedom" for the tiniest willy-nilly fraction of the market, no matter how vocal that vast minority might be. Freedom of choice simply means "there is at least one alternative", and that's all it means. At least, that's all it means in the English language. I can't be held responsible for how non-English speakers feel about any translations into their native tongues.

My summary judgement is that you should all re-read Reply 2.2 (by digistil). Question everything you read/see/hear/smell/touch. Then question it again.

So decrees.....


Da Judge

Quote this comment #23.1 Posted by dp123 on 25 Aug 2004 - 20:53
Please, you don't seem to know much about business at all.

In the music copyright business, it is very standard to have a percentage or set number of "points" on the dollar of all sales. This does not lower as the volume increases. This is how music copyrights work. Plain and Simple. Britney Spears royalties do not decrease when she sells a greater volume. Hence, no volume discounts to the stores.

There are numerous reliable resources for my .70 figure. Do some research.

As for your retarded theory that publicly traded companies are keeping two sets of books... well, thanks for proving you know nothing about business.

Yes, I don't trust their figures, but not because they are lying... Simply because the figures are parts of larger divisions, costs are spread across line items (marketing), etc... But you clearly don't know business.

And, Apple has stated the iTMS makes a small profit, they have disclosed download figures, they clearly enumerate untis and revenue and profit on the iPod. Real only claims subscribers, no download numbers, claim a margin on tracks, but also acknowledges they've never been profitable and lose 4 million a quarter.

And last but not least 20 million, last time I checked, was 4000% greater than Real's existing marketshare. It also makes more sense to compete in a market where there is 1 competitor instead of 40 also rans... So, let's not claim it's infeasible or impractical for them to produce a product for Mac users, particularly when they are claiming they are providing choice and have a better product than Apple.

Quote this comment #23.2 Posted by Judge Roy Bean on 27 Aug 2004 - 04:27
dp123,

You're welcome. No insult intended, just "you're welcome".

Now, while it may be obvious to you how the music business is run, you should carefully consider two things. One, my name. I earned that one, before I retired. The wealth of experieces I've gained are mine to command, at least until Alheizmer's sets in. That said, Number Two, I sat in judgment on more than a few cases where business practices, and in particular, financial accounting practices, were called into question. Speaking of which, here's a question for you, which gets to the heart of this point: Why do you suppose the IRS goes after a business in the first place, hummm? It sure ain't because they liked the books they were presented by the accountants/bookkeepers of the firm.

As usual, the IRS gets wind of hanky-panky most often via a former/disgruntled employee. At that point, no matter how good the books look, there will be a lot of hard questions to answer before the whole thing is done. Most often, when the bankers are brought in, it will be found that they got different financial data than the Feds, and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down. Can you spell E-N-R-O-N? I knew you could.

As for asking me to do your research, I must refer you to Point One above. I render judgment on what others have researched, not the other way around. But a passing glance at the 'Net shows no hard and factual data in reference to the 70 cents per track, only a helluva lot of innuendo. Care to brief me?

I agree with the rest of your message, except that I don't think we're on the same page in the last paragraph. I was refering to the fact that Real doesn't make a Mac version of Rhapsody (yet) because the number of iPod's far outweighs the number of Mac's, thus (ironically) stressing the point that the far greater majority of iPod owners are Windows users. (Even Apple admits to this. They brought out a Windows version what... 9 or 10 months ago? And look at what that did for their numbers.)

No doubt about it, that's a cross pollenization in which Apple can take pride. But we're still facing the problem of "profitable expenditure of resources" - one simply cannot expect the same return on investment for bringing out a program for the Mac as one can expect for doing the same program for the Windows environment. That's sheer arithmetic, and nothing more. Since Real's stated goal is to sell music (preferably by subscription), and since it is more profitable to sell it to the "lowest common denominator" (the Windows platform), that's what they are doing. Same argument, different software company. Commerce as usual. Ho hum.

You all know, I just realized something. The Rhapsody service was available only on Windows boxes long before the AAC format was added. It even did QuickTime, so Apple should not have been surprised. When Real bought the product from Listen.com, it already supported just about every format out there. There's a "Freedom of Choice" for you all to ponder. So the question uppermost in my mind becomes: Why is it only now that furor has arisen? iPods have been around much longer than Rhapsody's incorporation of the AAC format, so where was everybody hiding, down at the ball game or something?

Court is in recess, pending dp123's submission of briefs in rebuttal.


Da Judge
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