California is trying to make Microsoft pay--again.
Five state counties and two cities have filed a class-action lawsuit against the software giant for using its monopoly power to deny government agencies free choice in software products and charge high prices. The legal action, filed by the city and county of San Francisco, said that Microsoft's tactics caused harm to government users of its Windows operating system and Word and Excel software.
"It's anticompetitive, it's predatory, and it denies consumers, and in this case taxpayers, the benefits of innovation that a free marketplace should provide," Dennis Herrera, attorney for the city of San Francisco, said in a statement. The lawsuit follows successful class actions against Microsoft in several states, including a $1.1 billion award to California consumers. The same law firm that argued that civil action is representing California counties and cities in the latest legal maneuver. The lawsuit, which could recoup millions of dollars for the California government, also comes as the state took out loans to compensate for a $15 billion budget shortfall.
News source: C|Net News.com
Five state counties and two cities have filed a class-action lawsuit against the software giant for using its monopoly power to deny government agencies free choice in software products and charge high prices. The legal action, filed by the city and county of San Francisco, said that Microsoft's tactics caused harm to government users of its Windows operating system and Word and Excel software.
"It's anticompetitive, it's predatory, and it denies consumers, and in this case taxpayers, the benefits of innovation that a free marketplace should provide," Dennis Herrera, attorney for the city of San Francisco, said in a statement. The lawsuit follows successful class actions against Microsoft in several states, including a $1.1 billion award to California consumers. The same law firm that argued that civil action is representing California counties and cities in the latest legal maneuver. The lawsuit, which could recoup millions of dollars for the California government, also comes as the state took out loans to compensate for a $15 billion budget shortfall.
News source: C|Net News.com
Build 9 24 August 2004
* Version number incremented to 1.1
* Redesigned user interface
* Added right click context menu to profile list on main window
* Added new services to service help (including new XP SP2 services)
* Added colors and minor modications to text window logging to fsasctl
* Added additional support for terminating the desktop (explorer.exe)
* Added running programs filter to programs window
* Added Tools menu option to allow user to set Program Options and launch the Service Manager
* Added Tool Tip help througout the program (can be disabled via Program Options)
* Added abilty to shutdown or restart the computer after fsasctl has finished execution (not available for Windows 9x/ME)
* Fixed bug where Comments embedded in program executables were not being displayed properly in the programs window
More free money is nice.
Ah, ain't it the truth, they have run out of money, instead of doing things right, they sue Microsoft for some money to pay their debts because they can't manage money. I'd love to see the people who proposed this crap agan in jail, this is plain and simple theft.
I'd also be interested to know how exactly MS "deny government agencies free choice in software products". Do they stand next to the purchasing people preventing them from buying other people's software? I very much doubt it. Or is possibly more likely that the agencies in question are just lazy and haven't actually bothered to look around at what else is available? They could always use Open Office or Lotus Notes/123 instead of MS Office, or they could switch to Apple or Linux instead of Windows.
You don't go into a car dealers and say "I really like that car but it's too expensive so I'm going to sue you."
Anyone that uses Windows for work always complained about BSOD, but it took Microsoft almost 10 years to fix this.
Obviously the screen itself has not been the problem. The screen is merely there to halt processes in the event of an error and display what it might be. The real issue here is stability. I think you will easily be able to agree that every single operating system has been plagued by stability issues for several years after it's first incarnation. The mac platform for example, has only reached an acceptable level of stability recently with the nifty upgrades to O.S. Ten. Before that, the stupid contraptions would lock up all the time. Believe me, I know because I went to a school district that for many years had macs and only macs. And I don't even need to talk about how bad linux has been. But it's getting better, just as macs did and windows is doing to a degree of greater maturity.
Progress takes time, and people are so darn impatient because they have been taught by the T.V. that technology is supposed to be instantly cheap, flawless, and revolutionary from almost the moment of it's birth because humans are so smart and cool. I'm sorry, but that's just not the case.
Last edited by 43403 on 30 Aug 2004 - 09:50
Okay, I mostly agree with you Artic, but this sentance is the most useless reply I've ever seen. Don't be like many wannabes here and make an argument on some small detail, but reply to the point of comment. Nothing personal.
But if we talk about stability and you mentioned Linux, look at where it got in 10 years and compare this to Microsoft's 20+ years. But this isn't about Windows vs. Linux or MacOS, but if they have a 95% market share and are 2nd richest company in the world, are they really so dumb they can't hire good coders and organise everything so they can finaly make a stable OS? That's what I call irresponsible. (To fanboys: YES, I know your XP works fine!)
Okay, I mostly agree with you Artic, but this sentance is the most useless reply I've ever seen. Don't be like many wannabes here and make an argument on some small detail, but reply to the point of comment. Nothing personal.
It's Arctic. =p People make that spelling mistake all the time though.
I guess what I was trying to say there is that just the blue screen of death is not a bug as you appeared to refer to it. I was also making the argument that products improve over time, and that one shouldn't expect near flawlessness from them especilly when the competition has a similar record. There's a bit more that I should include though, and here it comes.
But if we talk about stability and you mentioned Linux, look at where it got in 10 years and compare this to Microsoft's 20+ years.
Apple nearly started the gui game (they were the first ones to mass produce and sell computers with a graphical user interface utilizing a mouse) so I would expect their OS to be at a more stable point than anyone else right now, and they are. Microsoft had a late beginning in developing a gui driven operating system. So as I would expect, they are just now getting it pretty darn stable. It doesn't help that since everyone uses their OS, they have massive security concerns that take a considerable ammount of attention away from development, a huge problem Apple and Linux are free from. Linux is far from stable. Sure, it's gotten into the gui game and gotten in there quite well over a much shorter period of time, but that's because it is open source and smart users are able to grab the reigns and take it (more or less) in the directions they want it to go by altering or adding to the coding for any number of it's components.
So, the OS world is where it should be, and I see no reason for anyone to realisticly make the kind of complaint you've made. Am I wrong?
Erh, I do agree though that I don't understand the logic in charging double if the target macine has two cpu's. I still think of it as one whole computer even if it has two main processors instead of one. As far as cost as a whole goes, I can't really say... but my current opinion on that appears in #11.
This is definately NOT some kind of product advocation. I personally enjoy the use of all three products. I do have my favorite, but I won't go into it.
Last edited by 43403 on 30 Aug 2004 - 10:29
Microsoft predatory practices is what killing inovation, good competence and why not Freedom of choice and well its time that someone will stop them.
developer don't develope just for windows it's just that we tend to ignore those who do not
Don't forget that microsoft gets sued overseas all the time too.
I have had enough of this crap. But then again, I feel sorry, them being Americans.
Try looking at a map or atlas sometime, they can be quite useful
I think you're wrong there my friend. Americans in 70% of the cases think of themselves as superior nation. It's more like, well we have this and that and everything comes from USA and so on. Believe me your comment "We..." doesn't reflect the majority of people. I'm not saying you are like others though, and all my personal friends are ok, but that's only because they traveled around the world and seen the rest of the world and what it stands for. I come originally from Europe, and been living here in the US, and I try to be fairly objective. I love this country and love my friends, but the fact remains that the majority of people continues to go to other countries for 7 day vacation and continue to act like pricks, behaving like they are the sh*t and that nobody else can compare to them, you will get hatered towards all Americans (unfortunately).
One question for you... Is ignorance truley bliss?
I could go on about how it's cool to hate us Americans lately, but I won't. Suffice to say that I just want you to know I am offended by your comment as a generalization.
Ignorance is man's worst enemy. If you don't know what's going on in the world, if you don't care, than you have no right to form an opinion on things that you have no knowlegde about, little less get involved in it.
As I said, not all Americans are like that, I like US, I love my friends (Americans) and my intention was not to insult, but to just as objectively as possible, inform you. Just go to your closest neighbor and ask him if they ever left US. If they know where Austria (for example) is on the map, or what's the history of Persian people (again another example). You'd be amazed how many people never left their state, little less the country or have any idea about the history of these thousands and thousands year old nations.
Ignorance is not a bliss, it's a curse, that someone deliberately placed upon you.
To label all Americans as conceited because of a few wealthy travelers or to judge any nation of people based on the actions if it's rogue government actions is simply not acceptable to me. You are obviously an intelligent person and you must see that when you mention 70% of a group of people and then proceed to use phrases like "act like pricks", it is simply an untrue statement. I mean honestly, do you know 70% of the people in the US?
When you speak with your American friends (the ones that you love so much), do you tell them how you think 70% of their national heritage act like pricks? If you have, did they get upset with you and think your blanket statement to be ignorant or are they among the 70% of European immigrants that come to the US and act like pompous and self-righteous jerks?
Last edited by 9264 on 31 Aug 2004 - 00:40
But let me try to answer you about my friends if they get offended when I talk to them about this. No, of course not. There's no reason. Majority of my friends here fully understand my point and know that I do not mean "all" Americans, but large number, and they agree. But then again, most of my friends, travel a lot, they saw most of the world, experience other things beside this system. And when I say large number, I would probably have to say, middle-working class. Fortunately, the situation is improving, unfortunately it took one Sept. 11th and having this president to shake up the system in these terms that I mentioned.
Well I won't write any longer about this, because this is mostly a tech forum and you obviously find my comments insulting, but allow me to just tell you one more thing. Your comments about European immigrants is very much out of place. This country is founded by people like me. You parents or relatives have european or some other heritage, so we are not much different. The only difference is that I came a few years ago and your relatives or grandparents came here maybe 20-30 or 40 years ago. What makes us different? So when you say immigrants as a bad thing, think twice. We "immigrants" pay taxes as you do, pay off student loans or whatever and bring some extra knowledge that makes this country what it is today. The only people who this country truly belongs to are native Americans. But I guess that's part of history and very little people even tries to remember.
If you really want to understand the reasons behind why Americans are not popular in the world (besides the horrible foreign policies that few presidents introduced) please read: "The Unloved American" and you might start to understand some things, or not.
The Unloved American
All the best.
Actually, I couldn't agree with you more and that was the whole point of that comment. It was meant to make you see how your comment, which was essentially the same comment aimed at Americans, is derogatory and incorrect. But I guess my sarcastic parody was lost in translation.
Peace!
same ambulance chasing...low life...lawyers that got rich off the Democrats "FU's" now want ride Micorsoft for more
I'm all for M$ bashing when it is deserved, like a big exploit they choose not to fix because they deem it low risk, untill someone figures out how to cause a lot of grief with it costing companies heaps of money to have fixed and such, But hardly any lawsuits I ever see against MS are realistic. For example, suing them cause they have an internet browser integrated into an Operating System, well umm how about the fact that you operate websites with the broswer, therefore making it essential part of an OPERATING SYSTEM. Especially since pretty much most computers are largely used for internet and without the internet, they big computer boom of the last decade probably would not have happened.
If your going to sue MS for anything sue them for when a bug they choose not to fix, gets exploited and costs companies thousands of dollars to repair instead of all these frivolous excuses.
Anyways "for using its monopoly power to deny government agencies free choice in software products and charge high prices."... say what? Soo what Billy Boy sends enforcers to kidnap the pets of the government software purchesers and threatens to kill their little kitties if they dont buy Windows and Office? Give me a break.
just an example: netscape was charging for their browser yeah when microsoft released ie it was supposed to be "FREE" but lets face it they charge more and more $ for their OS is because of the things included in their OS so its not really free so microsoft makes money of it and netscape went out of business and then microsoft dun feel a need to compete they stop developing ie and the result is now what its happening now u see ie was a very good browser now its just a program with holes and mor holes and some of the bugfixes breaks others and so on. So what i mean is that any action cause a reaction so bundling a browser is actually why windows its so insecure.
As a said before once that u killed all the competition and have a 98% of the market theres its no REAL freedom of choice u have to buy it because u dun have others choice and Microsoft predatory practices is what killing inovation, good competence and why not Freedom of choice and well its time that someone will stop them.
What pisses me off here is that instead of concentrating on a company, an open source group, or whatever to make/build a competing product (read OS or whatever), everybody is bitching and trying to take the easy route to the money. If you don't like MS use something else. Oh, right, you don't have as sophisticated OSs (except OSX) that you can use. Who's fault is that? It certainly ain't Microsofts. They protect their business and keep producing quality software (more or less). Excuse me but when you use a whole suite of Microsoft's products everything works just peachy.
Now, let's take a look at the Longhorn. Now is the moment to build an alternative OS or at least expand Linux to be compatible with Windows applications. This could've been done before, but everyone is bitching that it's too hard to build an OS, it's hard to this and that. Bunch of crap! As I said easy route. If this effort was done years ago, we would have more competing OSs. The same goes for the government. Instead of giving incentives in money to companies that build OSs or whatever, they decide to sue Microsoft for Monopoly.
Today is Microsoft, tomorrow it's gonna be Apple (btw, both companies have similar business practices).
Last edited by 38280 on 30 Aug 2004 - 18:49
Linux? Bah! That's a laugh. It will be a very long time before Linux is ready for mainstream desktops...I'm guessing at least 10-15 years, if at all. Linux is weak, even as a web server. Which server OS gets cracked and intruded upon the most? Yeah.....Linux servers!
So, now Cali is crying foul because their gov't workers used MS products? Who bought the f'ing things? California's government! Perhaps they should put down the pipe for awhile and think about this....they are about to embarass themselves and the State of California - oops, too late!
As for apple product you should check your price list but i havent found a notebook yet that can rivalise with the ibook for price versus size. Apple offer a substantial student discount on all it's product and the emac and imac line are as expensive as buying a hp pavillon.
really i don't mind that some people hate linux or apple (just can't understand why) but please check your fact's before bashing
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