Lexmark denies spyware allegations
Posted by malebolgia on 16 November 2004 - 06:01 · 43 comments & 2375 views
Lexmark has firmly denied installing spyware on its customers' computers, after allegations appeared on a Usenet newsgroup that its printers install software that sends personal information back to the company. The poster, calling himself Commander, writes on the comp.periphs.printers Usenet newsgroup, that while he was installing a new Lexmark printer, he noticed that a program called Lx_CATS had been added to the program files directory. He determined that it was programmed to collect data on his printing and scanning habits and send it to a domain owned by Lexmark at 30 day intervals. He added: "Furthermore, it is embedded into the system registry, so average users would likely never know it was there and active."

He states that Lexmark did not ask his permission to install the program, or to gather this information at any time during the installation. He adds that when he called Lexmark to complain, the company originally denied all knowledge of the program, only to cough to it when confronted with his evidence. Lexmark UK has issued a statement in response to the allegations: "Lexmark Connect is a voluntary program that is fully disclosed to all users during the installation process for a new printer. During this process, a registration screen will appear that will allow the user to choose to participate, or not participate in this program. A user MUST review this page and click "continue", or the registration process will not install the program or the printer."

News source: The Register

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There are 43 additional comments
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(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #1 Posted by memodude on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:08
*cough*BS*cough*

Seriously, why do these companies do these things? It screws up their reputations and lowers sales.
Quote this comment #1.1 Posted by Geo on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:10
they want more money
Quote this comment #1.2 Posted by ecvogel on 16 Nov 2004 - 21:05
HP asks you if you would like to. DJ 5740 & DJ 6840 so any new printer as of 9/1/04. At least it asks you after the drivers are installed and it is not a most. The printer will still print.
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #2 Posted by Quick Reply on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:16
A user MUST review this page and click "continue", or the registration process will not install the program or the printer."

Sounds fair to me! buy a brand new printer and you are only allowed to use the drivers to use it if you agree to spyware too!
Quote this comment #2.1 Posted by Iluvatar on 16 Nov 2004 - 15:28
hmm doesnt sound like you read the article. You can select Yes or No and continue with the installation with either choice. They are asking for your permission not saying that you cant use the printer if you dont.



Last edited by 23627 on 16 Nov 2004 - 15:38
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #3 Posted by leesmithg on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:19
I was going to buy a Lexmark printer in the sales, I am sure I am not stupid enough to install 'spyware' components, I am pee'd off they would even consider putting in the installation software, for that alone my monies are going on something else now.
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #4 Posted by QuantumTrickery on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:23
Sounds like another guy out to get his 15 minutes and a pocketful of money from a big company. Its not like the company is getting any information on what it is he's printing.
Quote this comment #4.1 Posted by macrosslover on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:41
we don't know that it doesn't send info back and so far they guy isn't asking for any money, so it looks like it's just a matter of principle.
Quote this comment #4.2 Posted by MrCobra on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:07
Any company that does this should go out of business. They'll never get another penny of my money.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #5 Posted by electic102 on 16 Nov 2004 - 06:44
Not buying a Lexmark that is for sure. I don't even want the option of having spyware installed and for them to think about doing something like this is just plain mind blowing to me. Lexmark is off my xmas list
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #6 Posted by frazell on 16 Nov 2004 - 07:01
Dosent suprise me since Lexmark is garbage anyways...
(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #7 Posted by pixel26 on 16 Nov 2004 - 07:10
Lexmark isn't even good anyway. Look at either HP or Canon if you're going for printers/scanners/whatever. The other stuff can just suck my left toe.
Quote this comment #7.1 Posted by Jugalator on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:26
HP

http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=JxkVb.44255%249U5.1853835%40news20.bellglobal.com

Quote this comment #7.2 Posted by pixel26 on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:46
Well, I just checked my Scheduled Tasks and didn't find anything of the sort, nor did I find the associated exe file in the mentioned directory, and I have an HP PSC 1350. Looks like somebody didn't know what she was doing when she installed the software.
Quote this comment #7.3 Posted by fergiej on 16 Nov 2004 - 14:09
Considering the article is about"LEXMARK" printers and not HP printers, there you have your answer...
Quote this comment #7.4 Posted by Ned on 16 Nov 2004 - 19:57
fergiej - read the link (7.1 - Jug) posted above.

Last edited by 76077 on 16 Nov 2004 - 20:05
(5 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #8 Posted by Jugalator on 16 Nov 2004 - 07:15
I don't see any problem with this, and can understand if they want to know how people use their printers to market future products petter, but I do believe they should have this thing separately after the install is done with a simple Yes/No question.
Quote this comment #8.1 Posted by MrCobra on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:10
Then they should mail out surveys. If I bought a product and I liked it, I would fill out a survey to better help improve my customer experience next time around. They have no business installing anything like that on someones pc.
Quote this comment #8.2 Posted by Jugalator on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:15
"They have no business installing anything like that on someones pc."

Why not?

If they present you with a dialog box at the end of install saying:

We're conducting a survey over time that sends data to us every month.
It sends printer usage information to us and no personal data is collected.
Do you wish to let us do this?

Yes / No

Then what's the problem?

The problem is that a survey you fill in won't do the job as they wouldn't be able to get reliable usage data as a paper survey would be a one-time job.
Quote this comment #8.3 Posted by scaife on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:23
Perhaps, but that's not how this works. If you read the article, "During this process, a registration screen will appear that will allow the user to choose to participate, or not participate in this program. A user MUST review this page and click "continue", or the registration process will not install the program or the printer."

So they either install the program, or they don't. But if they don't, then they don't get a working printer either, so essentially there is no choice.

Last edited by 37017 on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:32
Quote this comment #8.4 Posted by Jugalator on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:27
QUOTE
That's not how it works. If you read the article, "During this process, a registration screen will appear that will allow the user to choose to participate, or not participate in this program. A user MUST review this page and click "continue", or the registration process will not install the program or the printer."

Did I say it's how it works?

It was my answer to the comment above, which in turn was an answer to me saying

"I do believe they should have this thing separately after the install is done with a simple Yes/No question."

I just explained further what I meant since the person seemed to not think even a dialog box after install would be good enough and I couldn't see why.
Quote this comment #8.5 Posted by scaife on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:34
Ah I see now, my bad.
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #9 Posted by QuantumTrickery on 16 Nov 2004 - 07:18
Lexmark and HP are practically the same garbage, as its lexmarx that designed all their cartridges for them. Canon is absolutely worse printerwise, and the print quality is way off. Stick with epson if you want things to come out looking right. No matter what happens, the average consumer doesn't give a damn that their printer information is being watched, for the purpose of making better future products.
Quote this comment #9.1 Posted by jasondefaoite on 16 Nov 2004 - 15:32
hang on, lexmark design all HP cartridges for them? What are you smoking!!?

Perhaps you are confusing HP with DELL. DELL printers are rebadged Lexmarks... if you really did mean HP, damn you are awaaaaay off.
Quote this comment #9.2 Posted by kitchenutensils on 16 Nov 2004 - 17:20
and epson have some of the worst printers too - what the hell are you smoking? canons rock... shame no linux drivers tho
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #10 Posted by TGD on 16 Nov 2004 - 07:18
So it sends some data back to Lexmark. Is this really a big deal? Personally I wouldn't mind them getting some data showing them how stupidly hard it can be to get a Lexmark installed properly on my computer

So long as they're not taking your web habits and selling it to advertisers, I don't see what the problem is.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #11 Posted by conna on 16 Nov 2004 - 08:16
So what. Disable it.
(5 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #12 Posted by imtoomuch on 16 Nov 2004 - 08:18
Some people are just paranoid. I doubt this is harmul spyware.
Quote this comment #12.1 Posted by MrCobra on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:12
Being paranoid has nothing to do with it. If it was or is harmeless then why did they deny it in the first place? You only lie about something to protect yourself.
Quote this comment #12.2 Posted by scaife on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:18
Can I stick a little GPS device to someone's car so I can track it & see where it is at any time? That's not harmful, either.
The point is, this isn't about whether it's harmful or not. There's this little thing called 'integrity'...
Quote this comment #12.3 Posted by Jugalator on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:18
"If it was or is harmeless then why did they deny it in the first place?"

Because it didn't meet their definition of spyware since they weren't selling this info to advertisers or collecting personal info? And they seem to tell the users about it too so it's not like they sneak it in. The only problem I see is that you must (?!) install it to proceed with the install... That's of course beyond stupid.
Quote this comment #12.4 Posted by jhSellars on 16 Nov 2004 - 13:22
You guys are reading it completely wrong.

For one it says it's voluntary, which therefore means it's either a "Yes I want to particpate" "No, not at this time" - Just because it says "You MUST review the page and click continue" doesn't mean you're agreeing to have the Lx_CATS installed. You are clicking Continue to tell the review page whether or not you are volunteering.

This registration process probably occurs before the installation screen where if you try to avoid it, you'll just end up closing out your chance to install the drivers...

QUOTE
Can I stick a little GPS device to someone's car so I can track it & see where it is at any time?


Sure, if you ask first, which is what Lexmark is doing. But if the person walks away, then you won't be able to install the GPS and use it. : )

Last edited by 25219 on 16 Nov 2004 - 13:59
Quote this comment #12.5 Posted by cdcase on 17 Nov 2004 - 02:28
thats an oxymoron
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #13 Posted by DJ Specs on 16 Nov 2004 - 08:45
This is why Lexmark sales have been declining over the last few years. THEY SUCK! And now even more! Buy Canon. I threw my Lexmark out 5 months ago.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #14 Posted by affy1977 on 16 Nov 2004 - 08:47
Lexmark are T%""ers, did they think they could keep the spyware program a secret for ever!!!.... Dont think im gona be gettin one and will activly discourage ppl from gettin one. Spyware is a big problem, it infests peoples pc's with s$%t, slows them down and causes a headach for people that have to fix them. Hope lexmark take note of this forum, am definatly sendin the link to them
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #15 Posted by Weasel on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:20
Lexmark printers are shat anyway. Just get an HP.
Quote this comment #15.1 Posted by Jugalator on 16 Nov 2004 - 09:31
See my post above for an example of HP spyware
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #16 Posted by Randall_Lind on 16 Nov 2004 - 14:58
Logitech tries to trick people in to spam also with the desktop manager. But Logitech gives you the option not to install it but it is spam no less.

Adware,Spybot etc all detect it as spam. Why would a legit company like lexmark and Logitech team up with spammers? This is beyond my understanding.

Why would Lexmark need or care what you print or scan? Lexmark needs to be looked into. if you print a bank statement does that mean your account # is sent to lexmark? Or if you scan CD/DVD covers do they tell RIAA or MPAA? What is going on with the Information?
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #17 Posted by Iluvatar on 16 Nov 2004 - 15:34
This is not spyware. It is an optional survey program that is no different then the Microsoft User Survey that they place in the Office Suite or in MSN Messenger. It is NOT detected by any spyware program. People should really learn to read before they get their panties in a twist and make an ASSumption that is completely unfounded.
Quote this comment #17.1 Posted by jhSellars on 16 Nov 2004 - 16:56
Ha ha. Yeah... I figured the same a couple of posts up.
Quote this comment #17.2 Posted by kitchenutensils on 16 Nov 2004 - 17:22
agreed
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #18 Posted by AXiao on 16 Nov 2004 - 16:57
lexmark? spyware? dude, are you guys high or something?
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #19 Posted by rafter109 on 16 Nov 2004 - 18:50
Many companies that I know of uses some sort of marketing techniques in their product installation or registration. This is not a new concept, nor is it spyware because it is not installed without your direct consent. These programs are not gathering personal information, rather information about how much you print and what type of printing you do beit document or photo printing. These practices are meant to be beneficial to the consumer as the manufacturers get direct information about what consumers are doing most. This allows them to create products and services that are geared more to your needs. I personally am not a huge fan of Lexmark due to their high cost per page compared to some other inkjet manufacturers, but that does not mean that they deserve to be bashed for the same marketing that many other reputable companies engage in. Wise up guys, this is capitalism at its finest.
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