Microsoft Chief Operating Officer Steve Ballmer on Thursday warned Asian governments that they could face intellectual rights-infringement lawsuits for using rival open-source operating platforms such as Linux.
Ballmer, speaking in Singapore at Microsoft's Asian Government Leaders Forum, said that Linux violated more than 228 patents. He did not provide any detail on the alleged violations, which the Linux community disputes. Singapore's Ministry of Defense last month switched 20,000 personal computers to run on open-source software instead of the Microsoft operating platform.
Ballmer commented that "Someday, for all countries that are entering the WTO (World Trade Organization), somebody will come and look for money owing to the rights for that intellectual property."
The Chinese government, in particular, sees its reliance on Microsoft as a potential threat. Conspiracy buffs believe certain patches in the Windows code might give U.S. authorities the power to access Chinese networks and disable them, possibly during a war over Taiwan.
News source: Reuters
Ballmer, speaking in Singapore at Microsoft's Asian Government Leaders Forum, said that Linux violated more than 228 patents. He did not provide any detail on the alleged violations, which the Linux community disputes. Singapore's Ministry of Defense last month switched 20,000 personal computers to run on open-source software instead of the Microsoft operating platform.
Ballmer commented that "Someday, for all countries that are entering the WTO (World Trade Organization), somebody will come and look for money owing to the rights for that intellectual property."
The Chinese government, in particular, sees its reliance on Microsoft as a potential threat. Conspiracy buffs believe certain patches in the Windows code might give U.S. authorities the power to access Chinese networks and disable them, possibly during a war over Taiwan.
News source: Reuters
Thanks to Hadiz from the forums for the heads up on this article
I want to see Steve Ballmer comes up with more details.
I believe Linux does violate software patents, but Windows XP probably does too (Microsoft has been sued before, IBM and Apple have patents on everything.) and the reason Microsoft won't sue is because IBM will destroy them with their patent arsenal.
As the only way to defend against software patents (which you don't need because copyright already protects your software) is to have others to fight the company back with, I'm absolutely for the abolition of them.
If he would have provided details, maybe his claims would have weight.
BTW, if linux really infringed on even a single patent owned by MSFT (I am not talking about other corporations), they already would have sued the entire linux community. So far as others are considered, I do not know, but I wonder why they are not after linux community if it really infringes on their IP.
linux infringe more than a hundred patents (don't remember the number now),stop being copycats,and do your own software,microsoft simply wait,until there were sufficient infringments,to start wiping out and passing bills to linux wannabes
that's one of the reasons linux will never beat windows
the truth
do not want to start a flame war
These 228 potential infringements are just items that were raised during the Munich Linux migration. These are items that may be similar enough that someone could decide to challenge. Stupid patents are issued all the time (Microsoft has gone after stupid patents before). Stupid patents are frequently invalidated, as well.
Until somone comes up and says this particular item is questionable, these allegations are just heresay.
For you to tout them as "the truth", then call a community "copycats" and tell them to "do their own software" (which is coded by the Open Source community, you should read up on this), plus calling them "wannabes" is quite an invitation to "start a flame war" (which you pretend to not want to do).
Please start stating facts, rather than innuendo and insults that you try to pass off as facts.
SVT
Does this guy ever NOT talk out of his ass?
FAde
but let's not forget the power of people if china adopt linux massively how long do you thing it will be before linux as a truly userfriendly interface ?
You're right on that. But let me tell you what I've noticed.
When I started using Linux about 2-3 years ago, I can't even tell, there was GNOME 1.4, and it was ugly as sin. You couldn't tell when applications were loading, it could feel usable but I still loved rebooting into Windows. GNOME 2 brought a nicer interface and half-broken apps. Fast-forward to GNOME 2.8, and not only is it usable, but the majority of the applications just scream polish. Installing software on my Debian system is as simple as loading Synaptic, hitting "Refresh" and then finding the application's name or category. Updating it is just "Refresh" then "Update". A bunch of friends are amazed, and to quote one: "You got all this for free?".
Linux is absolutely ready to attack the enterprise desktop market, especially after seeing the latest versions of SuSE and Fedora Core (Though I still think RPM sucks).
What it needs is simply hardware autodetection and configuration. Currently handled pretty well by hotplug and discover. After that, marketing will bring the users. With users come drivers.
Considering that Macs definately rule the kingdom of ease of use, and Windows being customization/budget, I sometimes wonder if Windows is going to survive.
i will give weight to my post,i've investigated a bit about this issue to make it clear,in fact of the 283 patents infringed by linux,27 are held by microsoft,and 98 by linux allies (not quite right)
283-98= 185 potential lawsuits
here's the proof
zdnet News
In Ravicher's opinion, 283 patents could be a basis for Linux infringement lawsuits, but that leaves open the question of whether a court would find actual infringement or whether the patent would ruled invalid. Of patents challenged in court, about half are found to be invalid, Ravicher said.
personal opinion... but still no proof! (and no mentioning of REALLY infringed patents)
Last edited by 48041 on 18 Nov 2004 - 16:13
Singapore: 20,000 non-renewals source
That is a quick 34,000 of a few hits on Google.
(EDIT: Funny to see Eduard asking for proof!)
counterattack
Techweb
Your second post is old news. The migration was halted for about a month, I believe, to evaluate the "Patent Threat" discussed elsewhere in these comments. It has since resumed at full rate.
Eweek
you can't rebuff that
next page
Eweek also
Linux became an issue when Combe's Web applications needed a database, and the only option available to the company was one from Oracle Corp.
Those concerns were proved worthwhile two years ago when the ISP gave Combe two weeks' notice that it was closing its doors.
so he was not happy with oracle (which is not open source) and his isp closed down. nothing to do with linux as os.
second one:
"There was a limit set up within the program that said you can only order 'x' amount of products within one transaction," Roy said. "When one of our guests went over the limit, it crashed the whole store.
so he has a poorly coded web application, which crashed. still no reference to linux as os. and the final one:
Such customers may not outweigh the numbers switching to Linux and sticking with it, but Microsoft executives will take any wins they can.
Also, although no numbers are mentioned in the article, one is a webserver, and the other is a single business transaction server. It can't be more than a dozen PCs between them. You need about 33,988 (34,000 - 12) more examples.
u didn't denied that article
the fact is this
linux is apparently cheaper than linux,but as the article said,the large term costs are much greater than Microsoft license fees,these people encontered some incompatibilities and inestabilities when they used linux.
this can be correct and incorrect,because this depends on the needs of the customers.
this point proves,that linux need more evolution,to be a real menace to microsoft,this doesen't mean that microsoft is really concerned,but they are actually following all linux moves to see what happens
As for the need to evolve, both Linux and Microsoft have a constant need to evolve and improve. Linux does it daily, and faster than Windows (look at where they both were back in 1994 - 10 years ago).
source www.computeractive.com.uk
Last edited by 69181 on 18 Nov 2004 - 16:22
It is entirely possible that each of the 283 patents might also be infringed by any other operating system kernel, as none of the patents (and no patent I've ever seen) is limited to software distributed in a certain manner.
Patents only care if software performs a certain function in a certain way, not how it is distributed or licensed. This is why OSRM has stated repeatedly that the risk posed by patents to Foss is no more than that posed to proprietary software.
As you correctly point out, the 283 patents that may cover Linux may also cover Solaris, Windows NT, AIX etc.
He sells insurance for just this "problem" lol What a scam he has going on!
--Mark Twain
--Mark Twain
(I like Mark Twain and think he was wise for his time, just making a joke
Last edited by 36818 on 19 Nov 2004 - 02:29
lol, I found that pretty funny, it could be true.
The rest, typical microsoft
OSGILIATH (Reuters) - Mordor Corp. warned Middle Earth kingdoms on Thursday they could face the wrath of Orc armies for harbouring and aiding Gandalf and his fellowship of hobbits instead of rightfully bowing to the will of Sauron.
The growing popularity of Gandalf - a wise and benevolent wizard who freely aids all in need and is a friend of all free people of Middle Earth - is a thread to the global dominance of Sauron's Dominion Of Evil.
Gandalf's fellowship has illegally kept Sauron's valuables, Mordor's Mouth of Sauron said at the regime's Middle Earth Kingdom Leaders Forum in Osgiliath. He did not provide any details on what exactly the nature of Sauron's valuables which were stolen are, which the Fellowship disputes.
Ex-hobbit Gollum McBride, who claims that "nasty hobbitses stole his preciousss", is suing elves and hobbits alike, including the Shire.
Rohan's Riders of Defense at Gandalf's council last month readied 20,000 horsemen to face the assault of Mordor Corp instead of submitting freely to the evil reign of Sauron.
Other kingdoms in the region are also beginning to rally under one banner. Gondor, Arnor and Erebor this year agreed to jointly combat Sauron's forces at Gandalf's advice.
The kingdom of Gondor, in particular, sees its proximity to Mordor as a potential threat. Conspiracy buffs believe that subliminal messages sent to Denethor from Sauron via his Palantir might drive the steward insane and thus confuse and cripple Gondor's defenses, possibly during a battle in the Pelennor fields.
The Mouth of Sauron said that security fears some rulers had about surrending to Mordor were "overblown".
"We think Sauron will provide far more security than Gandalf ever could. Sauron is a better protector for you lot because he has this awesome Ring which he forged, he fixed and he stands behind. Gandalf doesn't have an awesome Ring," he said.
so what? should china sue the rest of the world for infinging his IP-rights on gunpowder and compasses next?
the war isn't over,the next microsoft generation of Server software is coming,so we will se as expectators what will be going on the next 20 years ,and i know Microsoft will win this battle)
Microsoft belong to U.S
Linux belongs to finland
people of america embrace the things of your country,instead of giving your market to foreigners
windows is a good software,and is becoming cheaper and cheaper to have more access ,millions of jobs will be lost if countries switch to open-source software
Also you do know that Linux although started by a Torvalds does not really belong to anyone.
Yea, but they pay people from India to code Windows.
doesen't matter if there are 1'000'000 indian coders,they are coding american stuff
If so, in which way?
Anyway, Linus has been coding his OS from USA for quite a while now, along with international help of course. Not that I really think it matters which geographical location you're coding from.
doesen't matter if there are 1'000'000 indian coders,they are coding american stuff
that's gotta be the most stupid comment i have seen in ages!! is this guy still talkin? how much facts will be needed to SHUT YOU UP ONCE AND FOR ALL?!?!?!
I wrote this a couple months ago: http://www.silentblue.net/mtarchives/000811.html
"Open Source Risk Management LLC gathers that, while there are no court-tested patents that could be used against Linux, there are 283 untested patents - 60 of them owned by IBM, 27 of them owned by MS - could possibly be used to sue Linux developers. OSRM does urge calm: 'It’s very similar to the result you would get if you investigated any other software program that’s as successful.'
"Dan Ravicher, a patent attorney that works for OSRM and the Public Patent Foundation, does point out that nearly half of all patent infringement suits are won in favour of the defendants, making legal challenges against Linux quite risky."
frankly i agree with him
ref:
but i frankly can't understand how geeks like linux users have no life,how they spens lot's of time sitted in a PC,defending something that will not suceed.
keep it on
Versus what you're doing now of course....
i created a folder to investigate.i will surely be back
cheers
au revoir
They either need to Put UP or Shut Up and prove which patents are being violated, if any.
where is the sugar ....?
sorry for starting this flame war
And all you fanboys need to get together, have a group hug, and admit that each OS has its strong points. I'm a big Linux proponent for servers and for techies who want to learn more about how an OS operates, but I still use Windows farily frequently on the desktop because it just does some things more easily. However, Linux is more secure, more customizable, and, when I feel like dabbling, more fun. I like that I can put Linux on my servers and more or less am able to forget about it for a long time--it just works. It doesn't need babysitting. But when I want to get a new piece of hardware working quickly, for example, or I need my good image editing software, I'll usually boot into Windows on my desktop.
Remember, everyone--different choices are a GOOD thing. We don't want everything to be the same and conformist...certain sci-fi novels of the 80's come to mind. Ballmer says hundreds of patents were violated, Linux groups cry foul, but the truth is probably somewhere in the grey area...it always is.
ROTFLMFAO!
sorry
While I may not agree with your fundamental opinions, and I may question the facts you present, I don't find you to be mean nor irrational.
I think you may continue to fight your side for longer than the facts may justify, but you do look at facts presented and will concede points that are not in your favor. I don't think anyone in this thread was genuinely upset with anyone else, and it can be refreshing to participate in a lively discussion once in a while.
Mark
Please don't spell it M$. It's really stupid sounding.
This is partly true. In the short-term, Microsoft's customers will stay with...well....Microsoft. But as I said in my above post, Linux has extremely rapid development. Microsoft has a serious problem on their hands now when it comes to Linux servers. In 4 or so years, it'll be desktops.
bring it on