This article was kindly guest written by David Bennett for Neowin.

Firefox, many would have us believe, is taking over the world. As I write this article, I'm told the browser has been downloaded almost six million times in just over two weeks, and one survey is suggesting Internet Explorer use has dropped to below 90% for the first time in years. Onestat.com's statistics say IE usage has dropped by 5% since May, while Mozilla Browsers have grown by just the same amount. IE6 is being used by just under 81%; IE5 by 4.2% and 5.5 by 3.7%. Firefox usage is sitting around 4.5%.

This has all prompted claims from its advocates that it's going to take over Internet Explorer's crown as the most-used browser on the net. Unfortunately, open-source fans, that just isn't going to happen.

Firefox is a great browser. I won't deny that. I use it myself. But then, I, and indeed most of you who read this article, are far from typical internet users. The typical internet user couldn't even tell you what the word "browser" means. They simply know that if they click on that pretty blue "e" on their desktop, the internet opens up in front of them. They don't care about web standards; open source means nothing to them; and if you use the words "tabbed browsing" in front of them, you might as well be speaking French. This is the group which now uses the internet most-of-all: the don't-cares.

Internet Explorer, we know, got to this point of domination through a variety of tactics, forcing the dominant Netscape out of the market. It's been said this wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the fact that IE4 beat Netscape 4 hands down (it did... I had to use Netscape 4 the other day, it was horrible). But the fact is, it would have happened anyway. For it was around this time that the internet really came into its own. Sure, it had been around for years earlier, but now there were more and more ISPs, easy connection deals and a variety of incentives to sign up and go online for the first time. And, just at this time, an icon appeared on 90% of the computer desktops in the world - handily labelled "Internet Explorer". Whether people know what a browser is or not, there's no doubt in their minds what this program will do.

And we're still in the same position now, a good few years later. We have a net dominated by people who don't know and care even less about how they get to their favourite site. And surely, the only way Firefox - or any other browser, for that matter - is ever going to get the crown back is if Bill Gates has a mild brain tumour, suspends IE and decides to bundle Firefox with every copy of Windows from now on. Think of it... instead of having the big "e" labelled "Internet Explorer", you see a different icon - but the title underneath it reads simply "Internet". That's what most people think of the web as anyway, so there'd still be no doubt over what to click on.

View: OneStat.com - Browser Stats


I feel I should point out that even if computer manufacturers start installing Firefox at their end, it won't make a jot of difference. The techies will be annoyed as it most likely won't be the absolute latest version when it gets to them, and they'll just have to update it anyway. The don't-cares, meantime, will still see their traditional big "e" and instinctively click on that. You could label Firefox "better internet" and it still wouldn't change the fact that people are creatures of habit.

The wonderful people over at spreadfirefox.com have managed to raise enough money for a full-page ad in the New York Times telling everyone of the joys of the browser. Unfortunately, as great as that is, I quite simply can't see it having that much of an effect. Remember the marketing push when Windows 95 came out? There was a massive TV campaign; billboards everywhere; Microsoft even subsidised The Times newspaper for a day, making it free for everyone - on the condition that it came with a special supplement telling of the wonders of this new operating system in terms ordinary people could understand. Firefox, unfortunately, isn't going to get anything like that amount of publicity. Sure, it's attracted a lot more attention than probably any other browser release in history. But think of where this attention has been focused - most, if not all, has been in tech magazines and on tech websites aimed at people who will already have heard of, and for the most part be using - or at least have tried out - Firefox.

So I've come to the conclusion that the only way to get Firefox used by the internet population at large, and to stop all these stupid spyware exploits and viruses clogging up our precious bandwidth every two days, is guerilla tactics. We need to employ our own version of Microsoft's campaign of the '90s, and simply remove any sign of Internet Explorer from their computers. I don't go in for the customising of Firefox to look exactly like Internet Explorer, partly because Firefox with Qute looks 100 times nicer than IE ever could. But this campaign could be very effective. It's simple: go onto your friend/flatmate/work colleague's computer and get rid of the desktop IE icon and any links from the start menu, quick-launch bar and so on. Install Firefox and make icons in exactly the same place as they'll simply go there to launch it anyway. But make sure you rename them to "Internet" - we don't want our dear friends getting confused, after all. This is something I've already tried out a couple of times and it seems pretty effective. If they're tech-savvy enough to notice that something is different, simply say: "Oh, it's a new version" - then show them some of the new features included. Hey, we're not saying they've been included by Microsoft!

This, I am convinced, is the only possible method for getting Firefox usage to account for even 20% of internet surfing. 50%? It's unrealistic, to be honest. But if it even gets to a fifth, that's enough users for web "developers" to stop simply building sites which will only operate in Internet Explorer. Losing around one in 20 customers, as at the moment, is bad enough; losing one in five would, quite simply, be unforgivable.



There are 121 additional comments
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(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #1 Posted by Weasel on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:25
I hereby declare that Firefox shall be renamed...."Internet"!
Quote this comment #1.1 Posted by triune on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:29
I think "teh Intarweb" would be better.
Quote this comment #1.2 Posted by kronik on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:09
and i say "teh interwebnet" any other suggestions?
Quote this comment #1.3 Posted by welshkid on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:58
i recon
" IE teh sux0rz"
Quote this comment #1.4 Posted by kingius on 25 Nov 2004 - 11:40
If anybody gets on my PC and starts deleting shortcuts, they'll lose fingers!
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #2 Posted by xtatic43 on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:28
i completely agree with this article. ignorance is bliss.
Quote this comment #2.1 Posted by Cansokid on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:00
bliss ............
now we know the 5 w's of the wallpaper defaulting in xp
its ignorance!
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #3 Posted by GShapiro on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:29
It all boils down to..."Whatever works".
(5 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #4 Posted by [Fosters] on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:34
I rather see just News on the Neowin Frontpage.
Opinions & Commentary is best moved to a seperate page or to the forums.

Quote this comment #4.1 Posted by Nidonocu on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:38
Hell no, I always like reading intresting articles like these.
Hey.. get a few more and Neowin might have to drop its 'unprofessional' status.
Quote this comment #4.2 Posted by Jon on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:16
I don't like personal opinion on the front page news. I've voiced that before so feel I should backup [fosters]. It annoys me. I come here because I want to cut through the rubbish, and effectively consolidate 20 news sites into one. IMO there should be a seperate forum for these articles. (And I've had more than enough of this neowin-loves-firefox crap. Yes it's a good browser to recommend to your dad. Woopdi do, recommend it and get out more).
Quote this comment #4.3 Posted by Phasma on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:35
I like these kind of articles. Also on the News page. If it was put somewehere in the forums I'de probably wouldn't take the time to read them mostly. Some kind of clear sign that the item is a column or other opionion piece would be nice.
Quote this comment #4.4 Posted by SniperX on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:19
Couldn't agree more and Jon (Above) says it all. Neowin used to be excellent for just visiting the homepage, sifting through the recent news and then deciding whether or not you want to go read the opinions of others.

And yes, the "neowin-loves-firefox crap" is certainly the thing that has made me a less frequent visitor.
Quote this comment #4.5 Posted by Krome on 24 Nov 2004 - 21:31
I read this news post cos it's in the front page news. If it's in the forum, I would not bother reading this. I believe Neowin should have this long time ago. We should have our own news writer.
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #5 Posted by cuttheredwire on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:34
There are lots of those "don't-care" types around. I laugh at thier pop-ups. Then I install FireFox on thier machines. >:] Then they love me because the stupid pop-ups went away. =^.^=

That may change (I here SP2 has a thing to take care of pop-ups), but I'm sure as time goes by there will be other blatant things IE is missing that FireFox will have.
Quote this comment #5.1 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:21
isn't tab-browsing already one of the blatant thing?
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #6 Posted by M2Ys4U on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:34
Nice artcle
(1 reply) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #7 Posted by dbfriends on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:40
Woo, published at last (that'll be me btw )
Quote this comment #7.1 Posted by tiagosilva29 on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:39
Congratulations!
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #8 Posted by Zaic on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:42
great read
we should teach ppl at school - "firefox=friend, google=too"
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #9 Posted by Trajik 2600 on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:43
AOL could start bundling Firefox like they used to use Netscape instead of IE for page rendering... that would really boost the numbers.
Quote this comment #9.1 Posted by PCyr on 24 Nov 2004 - 23:50
Who says sleeping with the devil is bad
Quote this comment #9.2 Posted by lare2 on 25 Nov 2004 - 07:43
^^
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #10 Posted by Cardinal on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:44
Good read. Short and sweet. Most likely on the money.

Sadly, pop ups still push through with SP2 and Firefox.
Quote this comment #10.1 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:22
get a Google toolbar to solve that problem
Quote this comment #10.2 Posted by Dark Warhawk on 25 Nov 2004 - 17:05
please, there pop-ups that already get past the google tool bar
Quote this comment #10.3 Posted by AWBrian on 28 Nov 2004 - 20:27
I have had MSN Toolbar stop popups where Google has not. I just depends on the popup coding.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #11 Posted by Daugirdas on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:46
hes damn fu**** rightf. Lets pray for bill's tumour
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #12 Posted by jwjw1 on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:48
well it only makes sense..that the usage of IE dropped to below 90%...im sure many are testing firefox...its after several months....that the survey would be more meaningful...to see how many actually stayed with firefox...or went back to IE.. and im sure alot just get 'wowed' for the simple fact its new...some just have the mentality to think new is better....ive seen many ruin there OS because they thought updating a 'bios' was better because its newer...same with other fixes.....and im sure as the populatity of Firefox goes up..the attention of hackers will too...then IE can sit back and watch Firefox become the target.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #13 Posted by Aaryn Kasra on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:50
Wow.... that's so strange, cause a few days ago I was fixing my neighbour's old computer and it was so filled with spyware that I ended up reinstalling Windows and to make sure I wouldn't be doing it again soon I took the step of "replacing" IE with Firefox and I actually did the exact same thing in the article.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #14 Posted by doubledragonxz on 24 Nov 2004 - 15:56
I believe Firefox has a tough road ahead, the release of IE7 in 2006 will represent a turning point for the aspirations of any browser, because IE7 will be bundled with Longhorn. So in this year and a half left, Firefox has to make an impact in the public opinion, establish itself as recongnizable option for regular users and keep pushing for better features, only time will tell, but in the meantime Im sure backing every rock David is throwing at Goliath.
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #15 Posted by Cyranthus on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:02
there wont be a IE7... get it straight! jeez! its just going to be an update...

anyways... how many of these "firefox is god" articles do i have to read everyday...? im sick of hearing about it...
Quote this comment #15.1 Posted by dennqis on 24 Nov 2004 - 20:02
Actually you don't have to read any "firefox is god" articles, but you choose to so stop whining.
Quote this comment #15.2 Posted by AWBrian on 28 Nov 2004 - 20:28
Yes, there will be an IE 7
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #16 Posted by Denver_80203 on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:02
MY MOM INSTALLED IT

Need I say more?
Quote this comment #16.1 Posted by Aaryn Kasra on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:07
Either way, it is easier to install IE

(yes I know it's built in, I'm being sarcastic)
Quote this comment #16.2 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:24
good, then she quits the "not-cares" group.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #17 Posted by Cryptic_Night on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:10
I have to say....amazing article.....good work.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #18 Posted by MrTibs on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:10
Although I agree with everything in this article we shouldn't fail to recognize marketing when it doesn't come from MS. Lets face it, for the rest of the world, hype works. This Firefox stuff is hype right now but the difference is that it delivers on its promises. I guess this means that it isn't hype but "buzz". In any case, we geeks shouldn't believe our own press.

Once again, we have GPL people yelling that the sky is falling for MS and MS people discounting everything they are saying. The message here is that there is movement in the computer world. We should all take notice that an open-source project was able to raise money to promote itself. For the first time, mainstream publications that make huge $$ from MS are openly recommending non MS software.

Is Firefox a flash in the pan? I don't think so.

If MS has such a assured position of dominance in the computing world, why are they so paranoid? The key is stated in the article itself, most users simply look for the big "e" to browse the INTERNET. The problem that MS understands is that people can easily "convert" to Firefox by learning to click on the "red and blue thing". In fact, it is easier to move my mom to Firefox than it is for me. That same thing applies to Linux. Yea, I used the "L" word but before you start foaming at the mouth or when you finish rolling you eyes go over to Xandros.com and download their distribution. Trust me, Linux is ready for you mom.

So, lets not believe our own press but you MS loyalists, take a look around, some people are starting to opt for the "red pill".
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #19 Posted by kronik on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:16
honestly people this shouldn't be news.
I said it before, yes guerilla tactic is the only effective method and I have a n00b friends' PC (which was too spyware infected and needed a format) sitting right beside me which I have done exactly that to it; remove all traces of IE and make FF the default. I have done this to all 4 computers in my house too and i'm telling you I have had far less headaches and less formats since.
I have come to the conclusion that not anly am I doing others a favour but I am also "mostly" doing myself one.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #20 Posted by Raum on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:23
Wow, a smuch as I like FF, if I saw anyone doing this to someone's computer without permission, I'd be pissed, egardless of what they're installing.
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #21 Posted by Kushan on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:25
Although I agree that it would be good for firefox to have a greater market share, I believe it's places like school's and businesses that can make the difference.

I downloaded and was using Firefox on my school's computers, shortly after everyone was using it. This was all fine and dandy, when I explained to the admin that it made Working with the internet so much easier, he was willing to let me use it and not ban me for using software that wasn't part of the school's system.

But unfortunately it started conflicting with IE, people who didn't have it installed in their Area wre having problems opening HTM files as firefox associated itself with them. This wasn't my fault, it was because someone who installed it on their own system and didn't know what they were doing accidentally messed up the installation, but still Firefox was soon banned because of the conflict and now I'm stuck to using crappy IE 5.0.
There are about 100 Computers in total in my school, around 60 of which are on the C2K network. If the governent Upgraded these systems to Firefox, you'd probably get several thousand more computers using it.
Quote this comment #21.1 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:28
oh~ you're using IE5.0?!?! I bet my old high school is still using Netscape 4.7 in Win95!

:edit: to think that those comps are from IBM and bundled Win95 even my school purchased them back when Y2k!
Quote this comment #21.2 Posted by AWBrian on 28 Nov 2004 - 20:30
"it made Working with the internet so much easier"

Easier than what??!?!?!
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #22 Posted by Sporkguy on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:28
Good article
(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #23 Posted by cpu on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:29
" and to stop all these stupid spyware exploits and viruses clogging up our precious bandwidth every two days"

are you absolutely sure that this will not happend with Firefox?
Quote this comment #23.1 Posted by tapo on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:35
Firefox does not have ActiveX, which is the cause of all spyware you get from using Internet Explorer. So, you would be safe with firefox.

Note that firefox does have an automatic extensions install, but programs outside of Firefox cannot be effected by an extension. Also, firefox will not allow any random spyware extension to install as easy as IE does. You need to add the spyware site to Firefox's whitelist, then hit install, then wait 5 seconds, then hit okay.

Firefox is very, very, very secure.
Quote this comment #23.2 Posted by xinok on 24 Nov 2004 - 20:35
Programs outside Firefox CAN be affected by an extension. I've installed extensions which drop an EXE into a folder to add extra functionality. This can easily be used to install spyware, viruses, etc.
Quote this comment #23.3 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:35
Agree~ Firefox is basically providing the same functionality (the functionality of having extension "plugins", which what ActiveOCX are) with another standard, but in the same way. The extension plugins are still executables and the plugin, if incorrectly implemented, can be spyware as well. Just because it shows a "Install" button doesn't mean it's more secure, as in old days IE shows a "Yes" button in a warning dialog which ppl tend to ignore.

Firefox maybe bullet-proof in terms of webpage rendering, but when it comes to downloads and installs.... it's certainly not, and not a piece of software with ability to have extension plugins can be bullet-proof, unless the ability of the plugins are strictly limited.
Quote this comment #23.4 Posted by AWBrian on 28 Nov 2004 - 20:32
"Firefox maybe bullet-proof in terms of webpage rendering"

Actually, it's one of the worst web page rendering browsers I have ever used.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #24 Posted by kaffra on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:31
i use spywareblaster, and ive never had a problen with ie, downloading it not much of a hassle to downloading some extensions for firefox. anyway i have both around, no problems, but i dont make it a point to force people to get it.


(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #25 Posted by Azmodan on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:31
weird thing, no Opera zealots complaining or saying anything? or even spamming about "Wow I payed 100$$$ to Opera and still im getting those ads in the main window" heh
Quote this comment #25.1 Posted by Jon on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:34
Maybe because Opera users tend to be a little smarter, and just choose a browser and get on with life.
Quote this comment #25.2 Posted by SniperX on 24 Nov 2004 - 19:05
lol Nice one.
Quote this comment #25.3 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:36
Nicely said.~ I think that reflects what Opera users really think.
(6 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #26 Posted by selphj on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:33
Firefox won't take over anything, because it's really not that different. I used it for several days, and switched back to IE. It didn't run faster. And the tabs just weren't impressive. I've been on the internet since 1991, and firefox is just another browser that people like because it's not the leader. I remember when people hated Netscape just because it had 80% of the market. This too shall pass.
Quote this comment #26.1 Posted by Jens Stampe on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:42
I remember when Netscape was king, but everyone I knew loved it because it was what they all associated with the internet and it was free for students.
Quote this comment #26.2 Posted by Q25 on 24 Nov 2004 - 17:43
I have to agree here. I too found no need to change to Firefox after trying it out.
And yes it looks like another example of the "we like the little guy fighting the evil empire" thingy..
Quote this comment #26.3 Posted by tapo on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:27
Here's why I use firefox:

1. Quicksearches. God, I love quicksearches. All I need to do is type wi panama canal and I have an article, from Wikipedia, on the Panama Canal.

2. Live bookmarks and automatic detection of RSS feeds.

3. Pop-up blocking.

4. ADBLOCK! Adblock absolutely rocks.

5. Weatherfox.

6. Security. No horribly designed ActiveX in there.

7. Tabs. They're great so you can say, read the comments on neowin and have the article load in a backround tab. Just control click on a link.

8. Search bar, to seach Google or anyplace else. Even install new search engines if you want.

9. Unlike IE, it has a regular update schedule. Version 1.1 is coming in February, IE has been at 6 since 2001. All SP2 has is pop-up blocking and a different way of notifying ActiveX installs.

Sure, it has the "underdog effect", but it's also a damn good browser.
Quote this comment #26.4 Posted by Packman on 24 Nov 2004 - 22:01
Tabbed browsing would be much more impressive if you could move the tabs around, split screen them etc. I've gotten used to them in Visual Studio .Net. Now there's how to implement tabs.

And when will Firefox figure out how to display a multiline tooltip?

Still better then IE though.
Quote this comment #26.5 Posted by Twink on 25 Nov 2004 - 03:01
Tab Browser Extensions allows you to drag the tabs around etc, admittedly it isn't as nice as Visual Studio .NET tabs but still its a hell of a lot better then having 20 Internet explorer windows in your taskbar. Split Screen tabs sounds like a fairly interesting idea too like the tab groups in VS.NET again. I guess the firefox guys probably have a RFE forum/bugzilla somewhere
Quote this comment #26.6 Posted by AWBrian on 28 Nov 2004 - 20:34
"Here's why I use firefox:

1. Quicksearches. God, I love quicksearches. All I need to do is type wi panama canal and I have an article, from Wikipedia, on the Panama Canal.

2. Live bookmarks and automatic detection of RSS feeds.

3. Pop-up blocking.

4. ADBLOCK! Adblock absolutely rocks.

5. Weatherfox.

6. Security. No horribly designed ActiveX in there.

7. Tabs. They're great so you can say, read the comments on neowin and have the article load in a backround tab. Just control click on a link.

8. Search bar, to seach Google or anyplace else. Even install new search engines if you want.

9. Unlike IE, it has a regular update schedule. Version 1.1 is coming in February, IE has been at 6 since 2001. All SP2 has is pop-up blocking and a different way of notifying ActiveX installs.

Sure, it has the "underdog effect", but it's also a damn good browser."

Hmm...all the same reasons I use IE.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #27 Posted by Jens Stampe on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:35
This is a great article. I've been doing Mozilla guerrilla warfare for some time, though. My parents use it and Mozilla Mail, as do my sister and brother-in-law and their family. It's the only way to keep them safe, or at least heaps safer than with that leaky condom IE.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #28 Posted by Mx² on 24 Nov 2004 - 16:45
This is a very good article.
(2 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #29 Posted by frazell on 24 Nov 2004 - 17:49
QUOTE
...I, and indeed most of you who read this article, are far from typical internet users. The typical internet user couldn't even tell you what the word "browser" means. They simply know that if they click on that pretty blue "e" on their desktop, the internet opens up in front of them. They don't care about web standards; open source means nothing to them; and if you use the words "tabbed browsing" in front of them, you might as well be speaking French. This is the group which now uses the internet most-of-all: the don't-cares.


I HATE! generalizations...

Not everyone using IE is a mindless dumb net user. FF isnt great for every body end of story...

I agree with the other posters opinionated (and horridly biased) articles should be placed either in the forum or in a new category for them.

People need to stop spreading the false assertations that theres some perfect program for everyone out there. FF is a choice and it should be there, but to put that news article in front of users w/o some kinda warning of its ingrained bias only creates new mindless users on a topic...

Stupid ****ing generalizations....
Quote this comment #29.1 Posted by dbfriends on 25 Nov 2004 - 00:36
I wasn't trying to suggest that everyone who uses IE is a moron. I myself used it for years; I only picked up Firefox about a fortnight ago for the first time and like to think of myself as anything but biased. I've tried loads of browsers, I believe Firefox is the best one I've found for what I need. Nowhere in the article do I say it's the perfect solution for everyone - I was simply trying to suggest that for many people it may be a better option, and unfortunately many of these people will never find out about it.
Quote this comment #29.2 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:45
QUOTE
Stupid ****ing generalizations....


hmm..... I generally hate comments that are not neutral at all.

The article is nowhere saying IE users are dumb. The main point of this article is that no matter how good Firefox is now, Firefox would have hard time getting more than 1/5 of the marketshare simply because of "not-cares" users.

Firefox is indeed the best alternative browser I've found in all these years. I'm not sure if Firefox skins can change how their menus look, but if Firefox get a better look menus like in Office, I would definitely move from IE6, since the only reason I'm still not using Firefox is that it has Netscape-looking menus, which I hate the most!
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #30 Posted by frazell on 24 Nov 2004 - 17:53
QUOTE
So I've come to the conclusion that the only way to get Firefox used by the internet population at large, and to stop all these stupid spyware exploits and viruses clogging up our precious bandwidth every two days, is guerilla tactics. We need to employ our own version of Microsoft's campaign of the '90s, and simply remove any sign of Internet Explorer from their computers. I don't go in for the customising of Firefox to look exactly like Internet Explorer, partly because Firefox with Qute looks 100 times nicer than IE ever could. But this campaign could be very effective. It's simple: go onto your friend/flatmate/work colleague's computer and get rid of the desktop IE icon and any links from the start menu, quick-launch bar and so on. Install Firefox and make icons in exactly the same place as they'll simply go there to launch it anyway. But make sure you rename them to "Internet" - we don't want our dear friends getting confused, after all. This is something I've already tried out a couple of times and it seems pretty effective. If they're tech-savvy enough to notice that something is different, simply say: "Oh, it's a new version" - then show them some of the new features included. Hey, we're not saying they've been included by Microsoft!


Probably the stupidiest thing i have ever read on Neowin... Maybe its getting near time for me to find a new tech site...

Advocating illegal action... It is illegal to modify someones computer without there knowledge...
Quote this comment #30.1 Posted by dbfriends on 25 Nov 2004 - 00:38
It's "their", not "there", for starters. Sorry, had to get that out of the way

This par was written mildly tongue-in-cheek, but I think most of it rings true. There really aren't many other ways to get Firefox much more well-used than at the moment.

And I would suggest that it's very unlikely any legal action would be taken against you for installing a program on a mate's computer...
Quote this comment #30.2 Posted by frazell on 25 Nov 2004 - 04:43
You're not simply installing a program on your mate's computer, You're installing a program and hidding access to other programs on his computer w/o his knowledge or concent.

QUOTE
It's simple: go onto your friend/flatmate/work colleague's computer and get rid of the desktop IE icon and any links from the start menu, quick-launch bar and so on. Install Firefox and make icons in exactly the same place as they'll simply go there to launch it anyway.


Legal action wont result if you don't do it at work (which you also hinted at doing), but it's still illegal and immoral...

Respect people's right to choose and let them pick their browser... Don't go throwing your choice on them because you "think" its better.

Because i quite frankly cant see why FF is that important... Simply a browser...
Quote this comment #30.3 Posted by wildk on 25 Nov 2004 - 11:44
Does not really matter, The act of modifying someones computer or preventing access to programs or data on a system is illegal under the Computer Misuse Act 1990 and to carry out guerilla tactics as suggested by hiding IE in favor of firefox without notifying or with permission of the owner would be in breach of this act.
(certainly in the UK anyway)

Unauthorised Modification under the Computer Misuse Act 1990

Computer Misuse Act

If firefox supporters want to advocate this behaviour then thats fine but be prepared to face the consequences if you are found out, BTW installing it on your school or work network with out the permission of the Network Admins is in breach of this act

Last edited by 16997 on 25 Nov 2004 - 12:36
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #31 Posted by Magallanes on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:15
To plugins or not plugins...

In Iexplorer, it allow to install some plugins in a easyest way, think in flash, you only need to visit a page with flash, it ask for "do you want to install flash plugins".. then wait and you are ready for see flash videos.

Also, in iexplorer it can install some "nasty" plugins (spywares, toolbar...), but if you have property configured iexplorer then you can be secure about it (iexplorer ask for install any stuffs).

In mozilla is different, it cannot install plugins, the nastiest or the goodiest.. you must install manually and this sux! a complete burden!

Quote this comment #31.1 Posted by Jan304 on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:24
QUOTE
In mozilla is different, it cannot install plugins, the nastiest or the goodiest.. you must install manually and this sux! a complete burden!


In place of telling things that were true about 2 years ago you might want to download the lastest version of Firefox and check out the plugin installer. Quick and safe. :-)
Quote this comment #31.2 Posted by tapo on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:31
QUOTE
In mozilla is different, it cannot install plugins, the nastiest or the goodiest.. you must install manually and this sux! a complete burden!


Let's say you install Firefox, and don't have flash. Firefox will say "You may not have the plugins required to display all the media on this page." and you click for more info, Firefox finds out you need flash 7.0. You hit next, agree to the flash EULA, and it installs flash. Then, the stuff that required flash appears.

Sorry to tell you this, but your rant was entirely wrong.
Quote this comment #31.3 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:51
QUOTE
Sorry to tell you this, but your rant was entirely wrong.


nicely said.

QUOTE
but if you have property configured iexplorer then you can be secure about it (iexplorer ask for install any stuffs).


I also agree this statement too, especially in XP SP2 it lets you to choose which ActiveX control to disable, in case you accidentally installed some nasty thing. As long as IE6 in SP2 keeps plugging out the bugs and exploits, it can be secure if used properly..... instead of seeing a fake popup and trying to click on the fake X like many ppl would do when they think they know how to surf the net.
Quote this comment Reply to this comment #32 Posted by spiritualarmy on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:23
good article. realism is the only way to break in.
(3 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #33 Posted by badcompany on 24 Nov 2004 - 18:34
One thing this article didn't account for is this: what happens if the suppliers decide its in the best interests of thier customers to replace IE for Firefox? That's going to make the biggest difference, and it's not even that unlikely - Firefox is undeniably a more resiliant browser than IE.

FireFox needs vendor support, and should get it in my opinion. There's no real advantage to using IE as your primary browser - apart from the 0.5% of websites that insist on it.
Quote this comment #33.1 Posted by dbfriends on 25 Nov 2004 - 00:39
Absolutely, I agree 100%. However, the problem with this is: can you see Microsoft allowing it? Sure, they can't really stop firms installing it along with IE, but as I said, if people see two things labelled "internet" and one of them has that big familiar "e", that's the one they're going to go for every time.
Quote this comment #33.2 Posted by leojei on 25 Nov 2004 - 14:54
I think Firefox now is big enough for MS to make a small move - reopening their IE dev team. Of course MS wouldn't allow it, and will probably slip out a big update once the time is right.

:edit: I just hope MS wouldn't make it less-secure by adding more functionalities into it.
Quote this comment #33.3 Posted by AWBrian on 28 Nov 2004 - 20:38
There is no real advantage to using Firefox...especially when 10% of the sites out there are not properly rendered by Firefox.
(4 replies) Quote this comment Reply to this comment #34 Posted by Lokheed on 24 Nov 2004 - 19:02
This article is shacky at best, held together by used gum and paper clips. David Bennet would have you believe its simply hopeless to fight IE, so we should just lay down our guns and wave the white flag. Before the even get into the fray, we should fold and run for our fox holes, rocking in the fetal position as the bombs fall around us--the chared earth crashing down on our heads.

David's comparison with Windows 95 during it's debut and the article Mozilla is planning to run in New York times, is llike comparing night to day. Windows 95 was a revolutionary step in operating systems. No one has seen anything like it before. Whether or not it was heavily promoted, the new OS put Microsoft on the map because of what it did for us and for what it was, a revolutionary step forward in computer use for the masses. He would like you to believe that promotional funding was the result of it's--Windows--huge success, but we arent talking about some fad like the pet rock here.

Mr. Bennett insults many of his readers in his article by putting Firefox users on a pedestal, effectively claiming that "most of [us] who read this article, are far from typical internet users". I started using Windows NT and could not fathom how the internet worked. "How do they beam the information to you?" I asked, dumbfounded. "Phone lines...they use phone lines" replied my brother. "Oohhh", I muttered, somewhat embarrassed. I started not knowing what a browser was, not knowing how to install evn a program. By David's rational, I should always be this type of "newbie". But I learnt and now I am running Linux and support the movement of open source. I am even starting to program my own applications and have been hacking my KDE--in hopes of customizing it to my liking.

We all start somewhere and granted that not everyone wants to delve into computers as far as I did, but they are certainly gaining knowledge. If you don't know what a browser is and everyone around you is using Firefox and raving about it, as a human being, you are no doubt curious. Firefox can indeed break down barriers, not just on the internet, but in users around the world. Giving up solves nothing and having high hopes, as David would have you believe, is not a bad thing. While he hides under the cloud of so called "realism", he twists facts and offers up nothing but the notion of "quiyting". I find his assumptions "about techies" somewhat lude and devoid any concrete examples. David's arguments are founded on personal beliefs and abstract thought--mere opinion.

I say we should continue to claw our way up to the top. Just because Mr. Bennett is narrow sited and prone to quitting, I see no need for the open source community or the Mozilla foundation to follow suit. A programs weight is not measured in percentages.
Quote this comment #34.1 Posted by dbfriends on 25 Nov 2004 - 00:43
Howdee,

An unfair comparison, perhaps, but I was merely trying to make the point that no matter what FF does it really can't beat IE in the traditional marketing methods. A word-of-mouth campaign, however, is effective - after all, how did Google get to be the biggest search engine?

While I accept some computer users are interesting in finding out more about how things work, I also think there's an increasing percentage who don't. Think of it... most under-25s probably now have a computer, a fair whack of the 26-54 age group too. Who's next? Older surfers and so on. Some will be keen to find out more about what they're using, but the vast majority - I suspect - will turn it on, click on the "e" for the internet and the big envelope for mail, and do nothing else.

The piece was, as you suggest, purely opinion-based... and I certainly don't believe anyone should quit, far from it, I think we all should do our bit to get as many people using FF as possible (on one of my own sites, its usage has hit 25%... quite impressive). I just think we all need to think carefully about how to go about this
Quote this comment #34.2 Posted by Lokheed on 25 Nov 2004 - 05:21
I apprecaite your reply, but everyone in this world as an opinion--there is no questioning that--whether or not you can collect concrete examples and facts to backup your theories is another story altogether.

You so easily sum up the collective efforts of thousands of people involved in the Mozilla project known as Firefox, as being in vain. You reiterate that "most people" simply will no adopt the fox in replacing their "E" but you site your opinion as factual examples.

You frequently make assumptions and site precedant without concrete evidence or even elaborate on why you believe them to be. Why do you believe most people will reach for the "E" and why does Firefox lack the ability to replace it? Its nice to get your opinion on a subject but if you are going to write a piece, then you certainly need to backup your ideas or in the very least illustrate some of your thoughts in more detail. All I keep asking myself is why, how, and what?

I am surprised how contradictory your article is compared to this statement:

"The piece was, as you suggest, purely opinion-based... and I certainly don't believe anyone should quit, far from it, I think we all should do our bit to get as many people using FF as possible (on one of my own sites, its usage has hit 25%... quite impressive). I just think we all need to think carefully about how to go about this"

The suggestion of browser useage also contradicts much of your supportive statistics in your original article...