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US Supreme Court to Hear P2P Case

Mr magoo   on 11 December 2004 - 16:09 · 47 comments & 3725 views

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The United States Supreme Court announced that it would hear a case on whether P2P companies are responsible for the piracy of their users. The court will hear an appeal to a lower court ruling that concluded that Grokster and StreamCast were not responsible for the activities of their users. The ruling was a blow to music companies and movie studios, both determined to stem piracy online.

The ruling in the previous trial had rested on ruling in a case brought against the movie industry twenty years ago. The movie industry wanted to ban VCR's because they would allow film piracy. They lost the case, with courts ruling that VCR's had substantial other users than piracy. Michael Elkin, a copyright litigator said that "What's at stake is basically the future of a close to $500 billion copyright industry, specifically the music recording, motion picture and video industries which have been completely hammered with the advent of the Internet."

Representatives from the Electronic Frontier Foundation reject this; "The copyright law principles set out in the Sony Betamax case have served innovators, copyright industries, and the public well for 20 years," said Fred von Lohmann, IP lawyer at EFF. "We at EFF look forward to the Supreme Court reaffirming the applicability of Betamax in the 21st century." The Supreme court will hear the case in March of 2005.

View: EFF Commentary | MGM vs Grokster Documents
View: Kazaa | Grokster | MGM


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Post a comment · Send to friend Comments · There are 47 additional comments
(1 reply) #1 webeagle12 on 11 Dec 2004 - 16:59
morons never give up until u stick something in their @$$
#1.1 thexfile on 11 Dec 2004 - 22:53
The Supreme Court will go with the money... where all screwed
(3 replies) #2 TrevorB on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:11
Remember the article clearly saying the P2P has actually helped out artists?
Whatever, I live in Canada, copyright laws don't apply to me (im just kidding for the moron that mistakes this for a serious comment)
#2.1 2xSilverKnight on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:25
yeah , i'm glad that it is legal in Canada
#2.2 Jugalator on 11 Dec 2004 - 22:51
However, don't share stuff, since that's not legal even in Canada.
#2.3 Darkinspiration on 12 Dec 2004 - 00:18
copyright laws apply to us it's just that we are allowed fair use that mean the ability to make copies for backup and for a friend to sample but we are not allow to gainb any advantage buy it ( be it money or otherwise). We are allowed music download via p2p because we pay a tax on cdrom that goes directly to the artists of the music industry (...right just like the gas tax goes to the roads...) but we are not allowed to share mp3 on kazaa for instance (like i would share anything on kazaa )
(3 replies) #3 willvg on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:13
Just wondering what is preventing the music industry and the us supreme court from going after bit torrent. I mean that seems to be more out there than kazaa.
#3.1 nic on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:18
not really. Bit Torrent doesn't really have a face to it like Kazaa does. Bit Torrent is just technology that people are building software around for others to use. Kazaa is run by a company that puts out its own software and has its own server nodes that it ownes and can be liable for.

When they go after Bit Torrent, they will be going after end users. I don't think they can bring that kind of technology down (without taking out the entire internet and starting over from scratch).
#3.2 SonComet on 11 Dec 2004 - 21:12
They are going after bittorrent. A few people in the apartment complex that I live in during school got hit with warnings from colombia pictures, and their internet was shut off for a few days.
#3.3 Samoa on 11 Dec 2004 - 22:40
It's only illegit cause what? the RIAA and Movie industry say so...it's not illegit in my book
(4 replies) #4 nic on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:14
this is all really frustrating. Everyone knows that there are legitimate uses for online P2P networks. The problem is, the users aren't interested in the legitimate uses, as the illegitimate uses are much more enticing.
#4.1 webeagle12 on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:24
we gonna be more interesting if those morons will not charge us $20 per cd
#4.2 xinok on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:38
$20 per cd - Which is why a lot of people buy music online
#4.3 Sawyer12 on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:46
Its why a lot of people pirate music.
#4.4 s0wi on 11 Dec 2004 - 20:08
the internet is an excuse for them.
#5 CAE11 on 11 Dec 2004 - 17:38
Whoops. Seems like the Australian courts have set a precedent, of sorts, in letting something similar go to trial.
(2 replies) #6 Liaqat_ali on 11 Dec 2004 - 18:15
so when is suprnova going to court.
#6.1 chacho on 11 Dec 2004 - 21:49
wtf
#6.2 SquareSoft0 on 12 Dec 2004 - 01:57
They provide .torrent files, they don't seed the torrents, they don't run trackers for the torrents. It's technically 100% legal, so never.
(4 replies) #7 Cyranthus on 11 Dec 2004 - 18:56
they've tried before and failed... so why do they think they can win this time?
#7.1 VB Guy on 11 Dec 2004 - 19:09
It's called an appeal.
#7.2 Cyranthus on 11 Dec 2004 - 20:15
its called desperation
#7.3 Glen on 12 Dec 2004 - 01:14
It's called the Bush Administration.
#7.4 VB Guy on 12 Dec 2004 - 05:50
No, I assure you, it's called an appeal.
(1 reply) #8 Joshie on 11 Dec 2004 - 19:25
I've wondered, if p2p ever really died off enough to make sharing movies near impossible, which would become more successful: a movie-industry sponsored online pay-per-view service, or netflix and ripping.
#8.1 kcbnac on 13 Dec 2004 - 03:57
Netflix and ripping, probably. Or so my friends tell me that it works great...I don't watch many movies anyway...so I don't particularly care about the movie aspect of anything, and I've found cheap, legal music downloads, so I'm happy.
(5 replies) #9 Foub on 11 Dec 2004 - 19:38
Blaming the P2P networks for piracy is like blaming the Post Office for kiddie porn, or the phone company for obscene phone calls.
#9.1 Joshie on 11 Dec 2004 - 19:59
They know that, already. The difference is, the vast majority of post office activity isn't illegal, whereas the vast majority of p2p activity is. We can say till our tonsils bleed that you can legally share Linux, recordings of speeches, etc.. That doesn't change the fact that those transfers are a staggering minority. Keeping that in mind, the entertainment industries are attacking these networks.

I'm sure a lot of people here secretly grin to themselves when they see posts about the legal possibilities of p2p by users who are probably, while they're typing those posts, downloading four or five mp3s/movies/games.

Much like the music industry constantly claims p2p is nothing but damage to artists, while studies have shown that many artists have benefited because of p2p, p2p users constantly shout the legal uses of p2p, while statistics show that most users are pirating. And neither side of this battle is willing to admit that they're both liars and hypocrits.

If the industry can find a way to find a law or support the passing of a law that can punish these networks based on what is primarily enabled by them, or if they can find evidence of the intent behind creating those networks (and you're all deluding yourselves if you think all p2p networks were created with noble intent), they'll push and push and push until they win, or until they're completely annihilated from the effort.
#9.2 SquareSoft0 on 12 Dec 2004 - 02:02
Doesn't matter at all, P2P is perfectly legal and is completely unconstitutional to try to make it illegal. (Freedom of speech does encompass it by which files are being shared.) What SHOULD and only should be fought, as you said, are the liability issues of having piracy running on the P2P company's servers. What I see happening though is P2P becoming illegal, plenty of innocent people being fined/jailed, a movement to legalize it, but the RIAA and cohorts winning because... "They got the cash-money, dollar-dollar bill, y0."
#9.3 Joshie on 12 Dec 2004 - 02:22
Honestly, I love this whole conflict. P2P has been an experiment, and a very interesting one. Piracy had its roots in other places which were always inconvenient. Years ago I think BBSes were the primary way of getting your hands on pirated Epic Megagames and Apogee stuff. :] There's been IRC and usenet also. P2P is just another attempt at a way to distribute files conveniently, and the file sharing movement will learn from it and evolve, if necessary, to find a way to create a p2p network that facilitates piracy but which has no need to fear the law. For now, it'll just keep going back and forth.
#9.4 SquareSoft0 on 12 Dec 2004 - 03:46
There's plenty of P2P programs without core servers, that's why everyone hates Kazaa.
#9.5 kravex on 14 Dec 2004 - 11:12
If they shut down all P2P networks it would make no difference, people just don't buy as much music as they did years ago. There sales won't increase, lets face it someone who has a 1000 songs on their PC hard drive wouldn't be going out and buying them.

People would rather buy DVD's, Console games and Mobile phone's (and credit for them)

I wish they'd just accept there's more competition in the world today.
(2 replies) #10 triad_man on 11 Dec 2004 - 21:12
By that argument VCR’s would be illegal and maybe copy machines. When VCR’s fist hit the market the only real use was to tape shows. (Infringe on intellectual copyrights)

Now there is a Blockbuster on ever other corner. Give the technology time to mature before you legislate it out of existence.

(OOPS this was supposed to be a reply)
#10.1 krono6 on 11 Dec 2004 - 21:58
Yeah, they should make MP3 Players Illegal, CD Players Illegal, even a TV Illegal!! OMG, I'm so Illegal according to the Goverment that I should go to Alcatraz!!
#10.2 Ideas Man on 11 Dec 2004 - 23:20
They have no idea IMO. Almost every everyday device we use to have fun or work can be used for good reasons and illegit reasons. Why not ban the Photocopier? It can certainly be used to infringe copyrights, and I bet 50% of the time it is (Copying info from books etc.) and it can be used to steal sensitive information and you wouldn't know. However, it is very handy if you need something duplicated.
The CD/DVD Burner, the device can be used to make backups of your data, made home videos to send to people, put your digital pictures on, transferr information etc, but it can also be used to burn illegal information.
The DV cameras, they can be used to create movies of your holidays and/or special events, but they can also be used to do illegal activities.
Keyboards can also be used to perform illegal activities. By retyping something and claiming it as your own, you are breeching copyright.
The Internet which holds a vast amount of information, can be used for research, entertainment etc. but it can also be used as the swapping grounds for illegal content.

The point is all devices have their intented uses and they also have the ability to perform other unattended uses. Who is to blame for the actions taken by their users/customers? If I photocopy a book and resell it, is Xerox to be taken to court because their photocopier allowed me to do it? If I copy a CD, does Lite-On get a phone call because i used their hardware to do it?

This case is about as stupid as sueing all the other companies that produce devices such as those I've already specified. It's not going to do any good and people will just flock to the next popular device.
(5 replies) #11 rIaHc3 on 11 Dec 2004 - 21:12
still using mIRC.....the best of the best. Protected by Mr. Bill Clinton!
#11.1 chacho on 11 Dec 2004 - 21:50
IRC + usenet binaries = the best.
#11.2 krono6 on 11 Dec 2004 - 22:00
is DC++ IRC Based?? It seems like it uses the same kind of sharing, little different, but is it also protected by any chance??
(please reply to: krono6@gmail.com)
#11.3 Fubar on 11 Dec 2004 - 23:12
Mirc is just a client that connects to IRC DC++ is also available on irc along with the traditional way of /get if supported on the network you are on and depending on the client you use

p.s its not a good idea putting your email on a public forum that any tom dick or harry can spam not matter what size your inbox can hold
#11.4 MrCobra on 11 Dec 2004 - 23:43
Yeah, posting that email was a little off.
#11.5 VB Guy on 12 Dec 2004 - 05:56
How is IRC protected by Clinton?

"As to the specifics of this dubious disclaimer, President Clinton signed no "Internet Privacy Act" in 1995, and existing federal privacy protections applicable to the world of cyberspace generally govern the collection and dissemination of personal information (such as medical records) via the Internet. Federal privacy laws don't serve to provide those who break laws in the on-line world with protection from prosecution should their illegal cyber-activities be uncovered by law enforcement officials visiting their web sites."

So, unless you're talking about some other imaginary law you might want to curb your ignorance.
(4 replies) #12 altermind on 12 Dec 2004 - 09:51
it's like saying there are plenty of legit reasons for guns.... wait a min.. guns are designed to kill things.. specially people.....

small reason of legit reasons to own one.....


stagering majority of reasons to ban them... yet they wont
#12.1 kronik on 12 Dec 2004 - 13:33
that's America for ya
#12.2 tiwaris on 12 Dec 2004 - 15:41
It's capitalism at its peak.
#12.3 diamonds on 12 Dec 2004 - 15:42
let em try.
#12.4 Hills420 on 16 Dec 2004 - 03:32
good luck...
#13 Gizzmo2k1 on 13 Dec 2004 - 20:00
QUOTE
"What's at stake is basically the future of a close to $500 billion copyright industry, specifically the music recording, motion picture and video industries which have been completely hammered with the advent of the Internet."

Wow, and their still around. I think Mr. Elkin is completely hammered.

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