Microsoft customers and competitors will tell the European Commission within 10 days if the software giant's latest offer to comply with sanctions is acceptable to them, a Commission spokesman said on Friday. "The Commission will decide on whether it considers the proposals from Microsoft are satisfactory or not in light of the reactions in the marketplace," spokesman Jonathan Todd told reporters.
Nearly one year ago the European Commission found Microsoft violated antitrust laws and fined it 497 million euros. It also required Microsoft to offer a version of Windows without audiovisual software and to provide information about protocols so that makers of rival servers can compete. A judge last year rejected Microsoft's attempt to freeze the remedies.
News source: Reuters
Nearly one year ago the European Commission found Microsoft violated antitrust laws and fined it 497 million euros. It also required Microsoft to offer a version of Windows without audiovisual software and to provide information about protocols so that makers of rival servers can compete. A judge last year rejected Microsoft's attempt to freeze the remedies.
News source: Reuters
What's new
- A new selection command “Select Group” – select similar files. E.g. pic001.jpg, pic002.jpg….
- A new command “Command Prompt” in the "Tools" menu. It opens a command prompt for the current folder.
- Multi-Rename Dialog – replace command can replace all occurrences of a string
- A new Multi-Rename Mode. “Insert” insert a string on a specified position in the file name.
- An option to disable the calculation of the folder sizes.
- A new set of quick move commands. (In “Edit” popup menu)
- “Move to tabs” – shows a popup menu to move the selected files to one the folders open by ExplorerXP
- “Move to subfolder” – shows a popup menu to move the selected files to a subfolder of the current folder.
- “Move to groups” – shows a popup menu to move the selected files to a folder from the groups.
- “Move to Parent” - shows a popup menu to move the selected files to the parent folder.
Where do I sign up?
...C_Guy
Then the EC says, "We don't know if this is what we want", so they ask the same consumers to vote and decide???
They are sounding very capricous to me.
You don't need to worry about that.
What does this show about Europe? That um... they have better antitrust enforcement than the US? That they still follow the law once in a while?
Yeah, no kidding, if M$ was a Euro company things would be much different, WMD Bush would be the one screaming bloody murder.
I don't think that's enough. They need to remove IE and the integration of various office products as well. Micro$oft gets an unfair advantage over other developers through this integration with the OS and only a noob judge wouldn't understand the implications of this. M$ got off easy.
Give me a break kid.
What integration of Office products?
Windows was not the first OS to include a web browser.
Just because you think it's "l33t" to complain about "M$" doesn't mean you have to go and ruin Windows for the rest of us.
Last edited by 30311 on 25 Feb 2005 - 21:16
The poll would be a good idea; had they done it during their investigation. Conducting the poll after making the decision jeopardizes (IMO) the confidence and validity of the EC.
There must be a version of OS X without Quicktime and iTunes, or any other media functionality.
They'll also have to round up all the Linux distros that sell boxed copies in stores, since they all include mplayer, xmms, or whatever.
The only thing not optional is the Linux kernel and GNU OS.
As for OSX, they have not been declared (right or wrong) as having abused 'monopoly powers' by the courts, so they don't fall under the same set of laws that are geared to legislate monopilies.
i m a european yet i still don't see whats the problem with windows having Media Player. Yeah maybe u can't choose to NOT install it during setup, but gees, i can install other media players, and DO NOT USE Media Player.
I agree tho that they should have provided more info about how "protocols" (more info on APIs) work but that does not need a 497M euros fine :-/
Anyways on topic...
Alot of people are looking at this from the wrong angle this is not so much about "OS's" carrying Media Player but more "Computers" carrying Media Player. 9x% of all home computers are sold through a vendor such as Dell or HP and 9x% of those computers come with Windows pre-installed, and as such WMP is pre-installed, now companies like HP and Dell are a great market place for many software vendors, from DVD creation software to Antivirus software makers. Companies like Norton make the majority of their sales with OEM's but to make this money they have to compete with McAfee for example to get the contract.
Now just imagine for a second that MS included Antivirus software in the OS and Dell was going through the motions of putting together the new Dimension desktop, to do this they will be in negotiations with hardware and software companies to decide what they are going to include in this machine and in todays world they realise that consumers need Antivirus software, they realise that consumers don't like to shop around themselves and they realise that their customers are not Neowinians who actually know about what products are on offer and whats best, now normally what they would do take in bids from Norton and McAfee and decide which one gets the contract, but wait MS has included it into the OS so there is no point because its more paperwork, it will increase the price of the system and will probably confuse the customer by having two products installed on the system... so niether Norton nor McAfee gets the contract loses money and lays off staff, and thats sad.
But we are talking about Media Players
Yup same theory, there are many companies such as Nullsoft, MusicMatch, Real and Apple that would like to get their software sold with a new Computer but because MS have forced WMP to be sold with the computer there would be little point in an OEM like Dell even bothering to pick up the phone. Now that the EU has forced MS to play fair the big wide world of pre-installation is once again open to companies such as those i have mentioned and as a result chances are those companies will fight tooth and nail to produce the best product so in the end we benefit by getting a great product.
So why is Real more upset than the rest?
Now this is where the iPod analogy comes in and all those that have made comments like "MS bundle WMP because they love us and they do it as a selfless act" look silly. WMP is only a frontend for a massive revenue generating business that MS are betting much of their future on, by this i am talking about the technologies that MS license such as WMA/V and on top of this Media Centre and PMC's not to mention a massive amount of software and devices that use WMA/V such as DVD players and other such entertainment devices. As i have explained 9x% of home users use Windows and as such WMP and as such will be inclinded to use WMA/V much in the same way iPod users are inclined (ok forced) to use iTMS. Real make software that competes directly with this especially on the internet but because their product is not bundled with anything nobody is inclinded to use their product so Real is at a disadvantage.
So what about Linux or Apple?
Well what many people fail to realise is that an OS and a Computer are two different things, no really they are, MS sell a component of a computer that component being the OS, they have to compete with Linux vendors such as Novell and Red Hat to get the contract to have their product pre-installed and sold to consumers and quite frankly they do pretty damn well at that but they should also have to compete to have other components of a computer installed such as the Media Player, the Web browser and other tools, and if their product is good enough and good value i am sure many of their products will be chosen because alot of them excluding the OS actually are. Apple is a different kettle of fish because they are a an OEM just like Dell or HP so what they sell to the consumer is the whole package if MS made the computer aswell it would be more than fair for them to sell the whole MS suit of software with it, and i am sure many of you would buy it but thats not how MS makes money, Apple sell and MS license thats the way the two companies make money.
And as for Linux, i'm tired Mark can explain it if he has time but go look up "Distribution" in the mean time.
And another thing would people please stop saying that iTunes is included in OS X, ITS NOT!!!!! iTunes is part of iLife and as such is available for download but iLife itself may come with a new Mac just as you might get Roxio or Adobe Elements with a new PC and just like a new PC if you want to upgrade to the latest version you have to pay for it becuase iLife ladies and gentlemen is a retail product.
What would be unfair to MS is if the retail version of Windows was cut down because they could sell it as a Distribution like linux and by doing this they are showing their intent with no sneaky bundling.
Last edited by 63624 on 26 Feb 2005 - 02:01
Most retail machines have other media players installed. I challenge you to go to bestbuy or crapUSA and find a retail machine without musicmatch, realplayer. Anything with a true ATI card will have the ATI media center. If the computer has a DVD drive, most OEMs will include a software to play it (winDVD, etc) which all play other media files.
As for antivirus, the only AV that comes pre-bundled with a system is a trial version. The same trial version that is usually available for a free download. Ipso-Facto, OEMs are not giving money to AV vendors.
There is a valid point that pre-bundled software does reduce profits of 3rd party manufacturers, but come on guys! What revenue is truely lost in the media player market? Certainly not any of the revenue based on current business models. Most Media player companies charge for service, not the player.
In closing, as a software developer myself, having some of these things built into the OS is great. I say, the more features they add, the better, and if you don't like the features, either don't use them, or don't use the OS! Nobody has forced you to use windows. Hell WalMart was selling Lindows/Linspire. Software developers develop software. It is up to the consumers to accept is or not. by buying the OS, they have accepted that this kind of integration is OK.
Many thanks for backing up what i said.
Good point about component software, there is alot of competition included in that aswell and something that could vastly deminish if MS bundled software with the OS, for example my nVidia based graphics card came with PowerDVD, being that it was an nVidia based card i assumed i would get nvDVD but no, i got PowerDVD because the manufacturer got a better offer.
Remember what i said about WMP being a frontend for a massive revenue generating scheme, your right the money is in the service not the player, how much money do you think is going to be made in digital media in the coming years? no matter how many services are on offer "through" WMP such as Napster and the rest they all have to pay MS to use WMA and the DRM.
Too true and once that trial has expired who is going to be the company getting the money from further subscription, AV companies want their products preinstalled for the reason that chances are the consumer will normally just pay the for further subscription than go research and buy other software.
Oh i used the AV example as something that may well be an issue in the not too distant future.
Then i sure hope that the type of software you create never gets bundled with Windows because i am sure it would hurt your income, as for consumers accepting software thats the problem, most consumers just except what's put in front of them, just ask an average joe what the best browser or email client to use these days is, they just don't care, not everyone is into computers they just use them as tools to get through their work.
Microsoft customers and competitors will tell the European Commission within 10 days if the software giant's latest offer to comply with sanctions is acceptable to them, a Commission spokesman said on Friday.
What kind of jokers are running things the EC? The competitiors get to decide what is acceptable to include with Windows? Am I the only one who thinks this is a laughable situation?
Last edited by 22443 on 25 Feb 2005 - 21:53
I don't understand why nearly everyone on this forum is so anti-EC?!
EU: They haven't done much other stupid stuff, but 497mil euros was overboard.
MS: And that's a bad thing why?
Last edited by 46870 on 26 Feb 2005 - 04:15
An unsupported claim turned into a generalization
GJ
I don't see why Microsoft should force their applications on us just because we want to use their OS.
This thing is beyond end-users, the ones who are fighting against Microsoft monopoly are companies that are negatively affected by it.
Considering the kind of company microsoft is, I don't think that fine is THAAAAAAAAAAT much
Firstly, don't call him a dumbass, that's inappropriate.
So Mac, BSD, and linux don't exist? MS is not a monopoly.
Do you think MS would be able to push PlaysForSure if they didn't include WMP?
And by your logic, Apple shouldn't include Safari, iTunes, iMovie or other apps on their OS?
How many people do you think would buy Windows if it was just a peice of software to host and execute files and software?
Playforsure is a subliminal slogan to make consumers that don't know better think that they will only be safe using the product with that logo, kinda defeats the object of having an OS that is there to support 100's of different bits of hardware and software not only made by Microsoft.
They don't, except Safari but they do include IE aswell.
9x% of people don't buy Windows as a standalone product, they buy a Computer and Windows is just one component of that system, its up to the system maker to decide what gets preinstalled and what the consumer will most likely use not Microsoft.
No, PFS is a certification to tell consumers that this PFS device works with other PFS devices and media.
Except for PFS goes beyond Windows and into mobile devices as well. MS is trying to make a profit off of mobile devices. By letting customers know that their device works with certain other devices and media, MS made PFS. MS can make money off of PFS, so it would kinda defeat the purpose if Windows wasn't PFS certified.
Yes they do, and even more. When I clean installed Panther on my brother's computer it came with iTunes, and all new Macs ship with iLife, which includes iTunes, iMovie, GarageBand, iPhoto, and iDVD. Take the iMac G5 for example: http://www.apple.com/ca/imac/software.html
Which is why I think MS should not integrate any non-essential apps with Windows, but I still think they should be able to include them.
BTW, thanks for a logical reply, it's a rare thing to see around here
If MS want to start making computers thats fine, they should be able to include anything they want.
I don't think i was replying to you although i actually can't remember who that was aimed at after scrolling back. My point about PFS was that MS will be the only ones deciding which items get branded with the logo and consumers are unfortunate to be in a position where they will be in the dark about real compatability and with MS in control cross platform/device compatability will go out the window creating an iPod esq type situation of their way or the highway.
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