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WinFS To Be Available on Windows XP

Brad Wardell   on 06 March 2005 - 22:11 · 56 comments & 1072 views

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While no one knows for sure when, how, and if Microsoft's next generation file system technology will manifest itself, Microsoft officials do plan to bring WinFS in some form to Windows XP.

Just as Microsoft is currently doing with it's next-gen display technology, Avalon, WinFS apparently will be able to be used by Windows XP users as well.

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Taking much of its inspiration from the PC game Doom 3, the film will take place in a paramilitary research facility on Mars, where things go awry and hell is literally raised. Some theories say that the Rock is actually Satan in disguise, which would tie in to the film and game's devilish setting.

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Doom 3 was released on the PC last August, and an Xbox version will hit shelves April 3.

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(4 replies) #1 markjensen on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:14
It seems to me, that if they back-port too many Longhorn features to XP, then wouldn't that reduce the need some people see in upgrading to Longhorn?
#1.1 chacho on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:46
duh
#1.2 sphbecker on 07 Mar 2005 - 14:54
All the things being back porting are to ensure that Application developers can start writing Longhorn/WinFX style apps without worrying about compatibility with existing Windows XP base. The features they are talking about back-porting are all developer orientated. Longhorn will have a host of new user features and GUI enhancements that you will not see moved to XP.

From a user’s point of view XP will continue to be XP, but it will magically be able to run applications that are designed for Longhorn.

I think this is a great idea. Longhorn has a lot of really neat new application features and APIs that I am really looking forward to seeing used in mainstream applications. In the past the features of a new OS were not used until it was many years old and had full market penetration. Now Windows XP will have full WinFX support, so developers will not have to wait until Windows XP has been replaced, they will just need to say they request Service Pack 3/4 which ever adds WinFX.
#1.3 mattisking on 07 Mar 2005 - 18:04
Microsoft is losing ground to Linux and Mac. Whether it's seen in the numbers or not, the other options are beginning to proliferate and are developing at a FAR faster pace than Windows. I think this is Microsoft's plan to stem what could become a flood of people leaving Windows because of the huge amount of time between new releases (XP and Longhorn).
#1.4 Knight' on 07 Mar 2005 - 18:24
I'm a Linux user myself, but I don't see this backport anything to do with Microsoft trying to prevent possible switchers. It's got more to do with application support

If you guys want to see what the Linux guys are doing with regards to desktop search and stuff check this project out:

http://www.gnome.org/projects/beagle/
(5 replies) #2 sundayx on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:17
the way i see it, is that theyre just porting everything that was supposely longhorn's selling point, to xp, making xp more secure and user friendly, sp3? reducing the need for longhorn, possibly delaying the longhorn release as well.
#2.1 ev0| on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:30
everyones gonna move to longhorn for the eyecandy. Hell apple sold an entire OS on that fact when OSX first came out even though it was not ready and was slow as sin (10.0)
#2.2 markjensen on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:25
OSX wasn't just 'eye candy'. It was a platform shift from Apple's in-house MacOS to a BSD-based OS.
#2.3 ev0| on 07 Mar 2005 - 02:06
yeah but that's not what sold people on it.
#2.4 Solarix on 07 Mar 2005 - 08:13
the 130 buck price did
#2.5 TwoTailedFox on 07 Mar 2005 - 11:49
I still don't see what the temptation is for previous Mac users to upgrade to Mac OS X. As has been said, it was a fundamental code base shift from their own code, to BSD Unix Code. As such, there was Zero Backwards Compatablity with existing software.

The Mac community keeps telling us PC users to throw our PC's in the Skip, and Go Buy a Mac. I have a better idea; Release a version of MacOS X for the x86 platform, and then we'll try it.
(5 replies) #3 Jason on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:19
There is so much more going in to Longhorn than just Avalon, WinFS, Indigo etc all Microsoft are doing is ramping up support for the main pillers by giving XP and 2003 Server a version of each although limited in use.
#3.1 Jugalator on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:20
Where does it say how/if these will be limited in use?

Source please, when you make these kind of statements

Also, I haven't seen many *huge* things going on besides these, and it would be interesting to hear about these as well, if you or anyone else know of them. Please skip the obvious one though (the UI / Aero). By the way, WinFX is also going in XP/2003, right?

Last edited by 21023 on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:25
#3.2 Jason on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:29
Its obvious these features will only be part of XP so that Longhorn developed applications work, Same goes for IE7 it won't get the stuff IE7 in Longhorn will have either.

Aero doesn't interest me, I am more interested in features like new printing sub system, new driver model, new command console etc. Looks don't bother me much.

Heres a few documents to look through

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/driver/ldk/default.mspx
#3.3 Jugalator on 07 Mar 2005 - 03:32
OK, thanks for the link

Although I'll likely skip the boring parts; as mostly an end-user of Longhorn and no driver developer, the details of the particular driver model doesn't say much to me.

QUOTE
Its obvious these features will only be part of XP so that Longhorn developed applications work,

If it's to help XP developers use the technologies, and to make Longhorn apps work on XP, what would then be cut down? I mean; they need enough features in the backported versions to make the Longhorn apps work, and that seems to say they must be pretty full fledged. It's hard to give XP users some severly cut down technologies and still have Longhorn stuff work on it, right? And again, I haven't seen any official word from Microsoft about cutting down any backported technologies..

I agree the new command console looks interesting though, although I doubt I'll use it much. Maybe for some existing script someone wrote, but it really need to take off far better than the Windows Scripting Host to be very useful.
#3.4 Jugalator on 07 Mar 2005 - 03:35
Haha, now that's weird... My new reply to your post there appeared right under the first post in this thread. *scratches head* Now the post times look weird.
#3.5 andyandy on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:31
Also you can find some information about other Longhorn technologies by reading the WinHEC 2005 Session list. Still there's a lot of good reasons to upgrade to Longhorn
(3 replies) #4 )(RockerBoy on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:20
will it requires users to install SP2?
#4.1 Jason on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:22
Hopefully.
#4.2 scaife on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:16
Well, that's kind of moot seeing as everyone is going to be forced to upgrade to SP2 in the near future anyway.
#4.3 SquareSoft0 on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:46
Christ on a cracker, read the comments section. They are DISABLING A "FIX" THEY SENT OUT which allowed people to keep auto-update on without getting SP2. NOW people with auto-update turned on will... here it comes.... big surprise... automatically update!
#5 Nelsinho on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:51
hmm, I think in different manner, I remember in the begining of last year what already see something in slashdot and here too make sense because Microsoft need test winfs and another applications a lot of times before release the next o.s. into Longhorn and older versions <2000, XP & 2003 > also because not everyone go to buy the new o.s. first because your price, second because many many people's prefer wait a lot of time before made upgrade <wait them fix bugs first remember new model of car hehe>; therefore Microsoft really can release several new features for any developer or common users what have interest on it as one example see Microsoft Antispyware and probably Microsoft AV soon too, when then them can finally feel secure to release this new version of operating system I hope what new os come with as & av embedded at least, so I'm ready to collaborate more one time with my 50 cents
(1 reply) #6 Hankyone on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:54
this have been said a long time ago, aswell with aero
#6.1 Ideas Man on 06 Mar 2005 - 23:44
No, not aero, aero is Longhorn only. Avalon is being backported.
#7 thenay on 06 Mar 2005 - 22:55
Longhorn will have more than WinFS and Avalon
Also, it says "it will bring it in some form to xp" which means not full out.
It will give you a feel for what it is but not the full experience i'm sure

#8 Simon Thulbourn on 06 Mar 2005 - 23:28
Wow, this is rather old news...
#9 nX07 on 06 Mar 2005 - 23:35
I want Longhorn next year!
Harrrr'

But, if I cant get that, I am happy w/ this
#10 bucko on 06 Mar 2005 - 23:50
Don't want it ¬_¬
(1 reply) #11 nic on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:03
I'm glad that Microsoft is committed to enhancing the features of windows xp.
#11.1 ThunderRiver on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:31
Same here
(1 reply) #12 xMorpheousx416 on 07 Mar 2005 - 00:50
If this feature is part of "service pack 3" of a sorts...hopefully it will be slipstreamable...then a good refresh of the system, we'll be off and running again. I know some people may have converted their FAT32's by the command line option to NTFS....but I never did. So, for people like me, the WinFS format would be a better option to use from the get go.

#12.1 SquareSoft0 on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:07
Well, "so far" WinFS hasn't been a new file-system, but just a layer of operations that works over NTFS. If they continue working on it the way they have been then NTFS will be required to use WinFS.
(10 replies) #13 Hills420 on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:08
I hope we can convert NTFS to WINFS...
#13.1 PanicButton on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:44
convert c: /fs:winfs
#13.2 jagedEdge on 07 Mar 2005 - 03:32
WinFS isn't a file system. It's a service in the background that runs on top of NTFS, providing extra features to NTFS. Why they didn't make it a file system is beyond me, but it's not the best way for Microsoft to go. NTFS is really lacking in comparison HFS+ and other file systems.
#13.3 SquareSoft0 on 07 Mar 2005 - 04:07
Nobody knows if they will make it into a filesystem or not, unless you're a psychic.
#13.4 y_notm on 07 Mar 2005 - 04:44
well seeing as microsoft said that (at least in the Longhorn-era) WinFS would be a collection of services on top of NTFS instead of a new file system, I'd say he's probably right
#13.5 hornetfighter on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:01
.2 - "NTFS is really lacking in comparison HFS+ and other file systems"

OK you've made an assertion, but do you have anything to support it?
#13.6 andyandy on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:37
Earlier WinFS was a service which monitored some folders (like My Documents). Maybe that has changed, but I doubt that.
#13.7 SquareSoft0 on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:44
Earlier as in 3 years ago?
#13.8 TwoTailedFox on 07 Mar 2005 - 11:37
About NTFS....



NTFS was *based* on the HPFS file system used in OS/2. It's a self-repairing file system, with support for Encryption and Compression on the fly, as well as native support for File Permissions. And, like Ext3, it's a Journalising File System, keeping logs of all write operations to revert back to the previous state of a file.

Compare this to FAT, FAT32, HPFS, Ext2, and even Ext3. Unless you want case-sensitive file systems a la Unix, with no space character support... NTFS is the best choice.

WinFS, as has already been pointed out, is laid on top of NTFS. It's designed to cross-link all NTFS Master File Table Entries in an SQL database, based on MS's next-gen Yukon SQL technology. The idea is a faster, more flexible search system (as well as the ability to display the file contents on-the-fly, as an extension to what XP already does with Thumbnails).
#13.9 andyandy on 07 Mar 2005 - 15:03
QUOTE
Unless you want case-sensitive file systems a la Unix, with no space character support... NTFS is the best choice.

Just a small mistake there. NTFS can be set to be case sensitive too See Q100625 - Filenames are Case Sensitive on NTFS Volumes for example. There is some registry key you can set to turn NTFS completely case sensitive, which they ask you about during SFU setup...
#13.10 TwoTailedFox on 07 Mar 2005 - 17:38
• Microsoft Windows NT Advanced Server 3.1
• Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 3.1

I can see this feature existed in the original NTFS v1.3, but does it still exist in NTFS v3.1?
(3 replies) #14 prodigyblue on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:19
am I the only one that thinks adding features to XP is not a good idea. They should leave new features for their new OS only. I only want bug / security fixes for my service packs. If servicepack3 is not a fix of servicepack2 then it's not touching my computer.
#14.1 spotter33 on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:28
Do you seriously think they'd release a service pack without any fixes??
#14.2 Skyfrog on 07 Mar 2005 - 08:16
QUOTE
am I the only one that thinks adding features to XP is not a good idea


I certainly hope so; that's just dumb.
#14.3 TwoTailedFox on 07 Mar 2005 - 11:38
If an Service Pack does not include any hotfixes, it is referred to as a Feature Pack.
#15 Cube on 07 Mar 2005 - 01:43
I think im still gonna wait for longhorn before purchasing a laptop
#16 Ficman on 07 Mar 2005 - 02:15
Isn't this old news?
#17 goatsniffer on 07 Mar 2005 - 03:50
If they release this in a service pack, then it will be a year at the very least until we hear about betas for it.

It will probably come in the same form as avalon; a download on microsoft.com
#18 gohankid77 on 07 Mar 2005 - 06:27
QUOTE
It seems to me, that if they back-port too many Longhorn features to XP, then wouldn't that reduce the need some people see in upgrading to Longhorn?


QUOTE
Microsoft officials do plan to bring WinFS in some form to Windows XP.

This means that it may have more features in Longhorn and wouldn't really take away from the hype too much.
(1 reply) #19 welshkid on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:17
windows xp = longhorn ?

#19.1 [DGS] on 07 Mar 2005 - 07:27
If you try SwitchNT (or whatever the name of the program was) on Longhorn, you get XP Longhorn 2004...
#20 barcode on 07 Mar 2005 - 11:39
This is some really great news. Of course, Longhorn wiill still be worth it, but till I can afford it I can stick with XP. (Oh, and it does seem like this is an excuse to delay Longhorn again, but if it needs delaying then it would be better to hold it back to add features/fix bugs than to release it unfinished).
#21 goatsniffer on 07 Mar 2005 - 21:55
I had thought WinFS wasn't suppossed to be in the initial LH release, but they were delaying that to LH SP1.

Am I wrong?
#22 X-vtm on 10 Mar 2005 - 00:48
aha.maybe it's just a joke from M$!?

Check out here:Microsoft Uncertain About WinFS for XP

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