Windows XP SP3 to arrive before Longhorn
Posted by Steven Parker on 03 May 2005 - 14:34 · 58 comments & 11262 views
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#1 Posted by .:Neo.X.WinFreak:. on 03 May 2005 - 14:39
- i know
my mate is in the program
-fm
Last edited by 58560 on 03 May 2005 - 18:18
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(10 replies)
#2 Posted by Dukeicon on 03 May 2005 - 14:44
- Can they not actually get any thing right??? you would of thought with all the money in the world (nearly) they would be able to get a OS that doesnt need to be updated all the time. Prohaps if they were to make it open source like linux things like this wouldn't happen as much!
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#2.1 Posted by iZian on 03 May 2005 - 14:56
- Linux has had updates iirc
. And its not often a service pack is released, time between sp1 and 2 was quite long. Perhaps if they made it open source there would be no linux w00t, and no linux fanboys to go with it.
I personally have no objection to MS updating their software so I get a better OS to run my office and games through. -
#2.2 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 15:11
- You clearly do not understand software very well. All software needs to be updated; the question is how well the vendor supports their product with updates. Microsoft is very good at publishing regular updates that are easy to deploy and manage.
“You are an imperfect being created by an imperfect being. Finding your weakness is only a matter of time.” – Borg Queen -
#2.3 Posted by markjensen on 03 May 2005 - 15:13
- I agree with iZian. I am a Linux user, and updates are very frequent. I view updates as a good thing. Some are feature adds, and some are bug fixes. All are good.
Not sure what Dukeicon's point was supposed to be... -
#2.4 Posted by Treefrog on 03 May 2005 - 15:23
QUOTE Microsoft is very good at publishing regular updates that are easy to deploy and manage.
And you're seriously saying this with a straight face after the SP2 fiasco?-
#2.5 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 16:21
- What SP2 fiasco? My organization deployed SP2 on over 3,000 computers without issue. There was one web page we used that stopped working, but I notified the company responsible and they fixed the problem in about 30 minutes (just had to reformat a URL).
I would say the news made a much bigger issue out of SP2 then the patch its self. If you look at all the gloom and doom articles written about SP2 they were all written before its release, and I would have to guess by authors who never even used the public beta. -
#2.6 Posted by Joshie on 03 May 2005 - 17:23
- Last I heard, a ton of the SP2 'problems' were idiots who tried installing it over the beta. I slipstreamed it and installed clean (tho' some might call it tedious, I do yearly formats anyway, so this is the ideal practice to me), and have never had any trouble at all. I look forward to my next format being with either SP3 or Longhorn. :]
And all OSes have updates. If they didn't I'd be worried. How many point releases of MacOS are there? And Linux components update all the freakin' time. Hell, a lot of Linux users think the frequency of their updates are what make it superior to Windows. Bug found? Bug fixed.
Updates are good. They make you feel like you're still using something 'fresh' and 'new', if yanno what I mean. -
#2.7 Posted by finalcut on 03 May 2005 - 19:31
- sorry to disapoint you but linux has updates almost everyday
everybody has to find hole and security flaws -
#2.8 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 19:40
QUOTE Last I heard, a ton of the SP2 'problems' were idiots who tried installing it over the beta. I slipstreamed it and installed clean (tho' some might call it tedious, I do yearly formats anyway, so this is the ideal practice to me),
wow, you must enjoy reinstalling all your stuff. I bought a Dell laptop back in 2001 when XP came out. I have never had to reinstall Windows on it. I even installed the SP2 beta and then installed the full version over it. I told myself I would format and reinstall if I had any problems due to the beta, but I never did.-
#2.9 Posted by Dale on 04 May 2005 - 00:36
- i had minor problems after the beta. a week after SP2 was released i reformatted.. and never did since
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#2.10 Posted by mufdvr3669 on 04 May 2005 - 04:06
- Are you even serious duke? Do you even use Linux? It has plenty of updates along with Apple also. If you don't want to update then don't, use Windows 3.1 for all I care, I will update when it comes out because it'll offer more features and be more secure.
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#3 Posted by SkyyPunk on 03 May 2005 - 14:44
- hmm...well sp3 will be delayed...then lh will be delayed...so...
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#4 Posted by SouthernG on 03 May 2005 - 14:50
- Don't say that!
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#5 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 15:07
- This should not be a shock to anyone. MS normally does a service pack about every year to 18 months. SP2 was delayed because they wanted to add so many new security features.
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#6 Posted by Jon on 03 May 2005 - 15:38
- Neowin news staff REALLY should be checking the F-Secure and Kaspersky blogs every day. They are goldmines of information and ALWAYS on the front lines of AV news for obvious reasons (they are written by the chaps in the virus labs!).
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(2 replies)
#7 Posted by Cyranthus on 03 May 2005 - 16:12
- wow... why is this not a surprise?
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#7.1 Posted by PCyr on 03 May 2005 - 19:56
- Because all companies update, and MS does it about once a year.
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(4 replies)
#8 Posted by pshantxx on 03 May 2005 - 16:28
- I hope they introduce parts of LH like avalon in SP3. I have always wondered why my OS does not utilize the full graphic capabilities of my machine. The games use it to the maximum. Wouldnt it be nice if aero glass can be introcude in XP SP3
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#8.1 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 16:47
- Sorry, not dice. SP3 will be more like other service packs then SP2; by that I mean it will mainly focus on security and bug fixes. Even when they add WinFX to XP (probably SP4, but it could be SP3) the user will not notice a difference. All WinFX will do is allow applications written to use Longhorn’s new features to run correctly on XP.
By the way. XP does accelerate the desktop using your graphics hardware, but MS does not include any fancy effects or easy to use APIs to use it, so most people don't even notice. What proof, just boot your computer in safe mode and see how slow the GUI is. Or, you will notice that many games have a hard to find option to play the game inside a window. Now if a 3D game can be played inside a window (without using overlays) then the desktop is clearly accelerated.
The big thing in Longhorn is that MS is adding APIs to make it really easy to add good looking graphics to your application; they are also improving the desktop acceleration to make it more efficient, but that part is just an improvement, not an all-new feature. -
#8.2 Posted by Skyfrog on 03 May 2005 - 18:34
QUOTE XP does accelerate the desktop using your graphics hardware
I don't think so, it displays the GUI using the same old API as always unless I'm mistaken. It is prettied up quite a bit but 3D acceleration?
QUOTE What proof, just boot your computer in safe mode and see how slow the GUI is.
Isn't that because you are using a vanilla VGA driver? As I recall the Windows 98 GUI was also a bit slower when running in safe mode. Also, Windows Server 2003, the GUI seems just as responsive to me if not more than XP, yet DirectX is completely disabled by default.
QUOTE Or, you will notice that many games have a hard to find option to play the game inside a window.
Just because you can play a 3D game in a window doesn't mean the GUI itself is using 3D acceleration. I can play those same games in a window in Windows 98 or even 95 as well.-
#8.3 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 19:53
- Yes, they are using the same old APIs, that is my point. The big thing about Longhorn is that it is giving you new APIs so that software can use 3D effects without a lot of time on it. The only API I know of in Windows XP that uses your GPU is the transparency effect, for anything else you would have to do your own DirectX coding.
Okay, try this. Install Windows XP on a computer with an old lame PCI graphics accelerator (pre-DirectX 7). Turn the performance settings to "Adjust for best appearance" and then play around. You will quickly notice that some of the fade and transparency effects have a VERY low frame rate. I found this out the hard way when I upgraded my desktop system to XP years go. Apparently my Viper V770 graphics card was not compatible and I had turn off most of the effects until I got a new one.
I am not trying to say that Windows XP has as good of acceleration as OS X 10.2+, but at the same time it is not as if your GPU is completely ideal in Windows either.
PS. I was not talking about little Windows games. I am talking about games like Doom III and Battle for Middle Earth running on the desktop. I don't know which version of Windows they added this in, but I do not think it was 95; perhaps 98. -
#8.4 Posted by PGHammer on 06 May 2005 - 05:20
- SP3 will *primarily* include the crossport of Avalon to XP, IE 7 (and all updates), and, naturally, all the post-SP2 hotfixes. Like SP2, a single CD version will be available to customers for the cost of materials and shipping, and versions of Windows XP with the SP slipstreamed will be made available to OEMs.
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(2 replies)
#9 Posted by xMorpheousx416 on 03 May 2005 - 17:29
- Sphbecker, first off...it's WinFS, not WinFX. Secondly:
QUOTE Microsoft is very good at publishing regular updates that are easy to deploy and manage.
hmmmmm, let's take a look at that comment, and test it against reality.
SP2 took two years.
MS is just now releasing support for the new WiFi security standard....a Year later!
SP1 for W2003 killed SUS.
The list goes on and on...
I will say that the rumors I've heard speculate that SP3 will be nothing but bug fixes. -
#9.1 Posted by DCMonkey on 03 May 2005 - 18:11
QUOTE Sphbecker, first off...it's WinFS, not WinFX
No, it's WinFX
http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/letters/tread20040827/
http://winfx.msdn.microsoft.com/library/-
#9.2 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 20:06
- WinFS and WinFX are two different things; look into it if you care.
Keep in mind that service packs are not the only updates Microsoft releases. During the time before SP2 MS released hot-fixes (as they call them) for any security issues that came up. Those fixes where then rolled into SP2 for those who do not keep auto-update turned on.
As for the new WiFi, what other OS has built-in support for 802.11i? Okay.
Windows 2003 SP1. The fix for this came out something like 3 days after the service pack was released.
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(19 replies)
#10 Posted by ivand67 on 03 May 2005 - 18:21
- Microsoft can rot. They would never get a crowd like Apple got this past Friday for the unveiling of a new OS. They're so much about enterprise and so little about consumer.
OS X 10.4 Tiger is way better than XP already. -
#10.1 Posted by BlueFighter on 03 May 2005 - 18:49
- Wow, An almost 4 year newer OS is better. That was news to me << insult removed >>
Last edited by 36818 on 03 May 2005 - 19:22 -
#10.2 Posted by PCyr on 03 May 2005 - 20:03
QUOTE Microsoft can rot.
There was an article a few days ago about their profits being quiet good.
QUOTE They would never get a crowd like Apple got this past Friday for the unveiling of a new OS.
Not to attack Mac users (as I hope to be one myself when I get $$$), but a lot of Mac users are Mac users because they like Apple. However, I don't believe you did a head count of everyone at Tiger's release, so unless you want to back up that point with references, it's unjustified.
QUOTE OS X 10.4 Tiger is way better than XP already.
This just in: Radeon X800 is better than Radeon 7000! -
#10.3 Posted by ivand67 on 03 May 2005 - 20:06
- Do you work for Microsoft?
I'm just saying, becausea little statement about a company gets you so worked up in quoting me 3 times! Jeez!
If you really believe Microsoft would get a crowd like Apple did this past Friday, you're totally insane and out of touch with reality my friend. And who says Mac users are Mac users because they don't like Apple? That's exactly the point dude!
What a bunch of Microsoft whores!
Last edited by 82487 on 03 May 2005 - 20:17 -
#10.4 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 20:19
- You are right that MS may not draw the crowd of people standing in line at midnight, but I can guarantee you that the first week’s sales of Longhorn will beat the pants off the first week’s sales of 10.4. From what I have seen Apple users are more passionate about there product then Microsoft users. You average Windows users who wants to upgrade is more likely to pre-order from Amazon even if it means waiting a few days for shipping then they would be to stand in line.
Everyone had a right to say their mind. Please do not insult one another when you do not agree with their point. Be polite and more people will respect you. -
#10.5 Posted by PCyr on 03 May 2005 - 23:16
QUOTE Do you work for Microsoft?
Does it matter? No it doesn't. That's called a red herring.
QUOTE I'm just saying, becausea little statement about a company gets you so worked up in quoting me 3 times! Jeez!
You made three points, I addressed them one by one. It's called organization.
QUOTE If you really believe Microsoft would get a crowd like Apple did this past Friday, you're totally insane and out of touch with reality my friend.
So basically, you're saying "I can't prove my point, so I'm going to attack you." That's called a ad hominem.
QUOTE And who says Mac users are Mac users because they don't like Apple? That's exactly the point dude!
Who says? I dunno, I know I didn't. Read what I said again.
QUOTE What a bunch of Microsoft whores!
And that is just a conceited, hypocritcal point of view, which just got you reported.-
#10.6 Posted by SquareSoft0 on 04 May 2005 - 06:42
- I'd like to see the #10 section nuked as a whole, who's with me?
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#10.7 Posted by Sage_Override on 04 May 2005 - 07:07
- For once, I agree with you, Squaresoft. PCyr....dude....let's not apply what you learned in high school english to your posts. Stick with the review, not what fallacies this guy used in his reasoning. Proving flaws in a persons reasoning by breaking it down in sub-sections doesn't prove a whole hell of a lot.
..and you reported the guy for his opinion? Just because you think it's hypocritical, biased, conceited, irrelevant or whatever doesn't give you grounds to report this guy like a wimp who can't deal with anyone directly. People make cracks at others for using Microsoft products all the time then backing Microsoft up and what not and have made many more crass comments than this guy. He made a lot of good points, while some are a little off, he has the right idea. Your response was pretty much a passive insult at his opinions. He didn't really insult you; he just suggested that you might have the wrong idea and him calling some people Microsoft whores was probably just him letting off steam and partially joking. Lighten up. -
#10.8 Posted by PCyr on 04 May 2005 - 22:42
- Actually, it was for making a personal attack. I don't know who you think you are to tell me not to report someone for violating the rules of this site, which they agreed to. When you spend your time and money to run this site, then you can decide if it was reasonable.
QUOTE let's not apply what you learned in high school english to your posts. Stick with the review, not what fallacies this guy used in his reasoning.
QUOTE How about telling me why I'm stupid, you sorry, pathetic waste of space prick. Flaming like a faggot f*ck only proves your true intelligence, pointdexter. How about taking the I-praise-people-like-George-Bush dildo out of your a*s for a minute and calmly, but without the moronic comments, tell me why I am such a moron with free speaking individuality and why you are a puppet?
So I should respond like you do? -
#10.9 Posted by ivand67 on 04 May 2005 - 23:51
- PCyr, Sage_Override proved what a complete hot head you are.
I don't like Microsoft. You seem to love those guys. Get over it. Can we agree to disagree?
And I'm not going to prove to you that Apple has a lot more fans than Microsoft does. They're a tight community, while the majority of Windows users use Windows because it's the only OS they've ever worked on.
I don't look up URLs to prove you wrong. I may post here every once in a while, definitely not every day, but the difference between you and me is I don't want to prove you wrong because I highly disagree with your opinions. -
#10.10 Posted by PCyr on 04 May 2005 - 23:57
- Why not just copy and paste from your first post? It's not that much different, as you didn't bother to actually address any points made, but just went in circles. You're being a Me-Too.
EDIT: oh, and BTW, stop sending messages via PMs. You called me a pussy, yet I post my opinion for all to critisize. -
#10.11 Posted by ivand67 on 05 May 2005 - 00:13
- My initial comment was merely about Microsoft. It doesn't surprise me that they're bringing out SP3 and Longhorn has taken so long.
But anyway back to the point here. Now you're just trying to get back at me. I PM'ed you because it was the right thing to do, instead of calling you out on your B.S. publicly.
And now you're ignoring me through the board (not accepting PMs) and proving to me what I said in my PM was completely right.
I may not be very polite by calling some people Microsoft whores, but I'm the type of person who likes to make fun of myself, often using that same type of words, so I don't mean to create any tension between me and any other member. Obviously, by trying to discredit every one of my sentences, that is not the case with you. And reporting me proved Sage's point - you're a complete wimp. -
#10.12 Posted by PCyr on 05 May 2005 - 02:04
QUOTE My initial comment was merely about Microsoft. It doesn't surprise me that they're bringing out SP3 and Longhorn has taken so long.
Ya but that's not what you said. You said that MS can rot, they don't get crowds like Apple for a new OS, they care a lot about enterprise customers, and not much about consumers, and that Tiger is better than XP.
QUOTE But anyway back to the point here. Now you're just trying to get back at me.
No, I believe my (important) points were as follows:
Your arguement is full of fallacies
You didn't read what I said properly
I'm not trying to get back at you, I'm calling you out for not addressing the real issues.
Out of your four original points, one is moot, two are unsupported, and one is, well just a statement of the obvious.
You replied with red herrings and ad hominems. I pointed them out, and you just started regurgetating what you previously said.
QUOTE I PM'ed you because it was the right thing to do, instead of calling you out on your B.S. publicly.
No, the right thing would have been to address the points here in the thread, where it all started, not PM me a message full of insults, and lacked any sort of arugement. You didn't even try to get a point across in the PM, you just wanted to vent. And now you're trying to act like Mr. Niceguy? Doesn't work when your last post is full of insults.
QUOTE And now you're ignoring me through the board (not accepting PMs) and proving to me what I said in my PM was completely right.
You know, just saying something doesn't make it true. Try even explaining that claim before I even touch it. As I said to you in the PM, I'm not the pussy because I'm posting here for everyone to see and scrutinize what I have to say. You just want to message me a bunch of insults.
QUOTE I may not be very polite by calling some people Microsoft whores, but I'm the type of person who likes to make fun of myself, often using that same type of words, so I don't mean to create any tension between me and any other member.
Riiiight, which is why you PM me a bunch of insults, and end this post with an insult. You are definately a diplomat
QUOTE Obviously, by trying to discredit every one of my sentences, that is not the case with you.
Wait, you mean voicing an non-insulting opinion creates tension? Wow, I wonder what you call what you've been doing.-
#10.13 Posted by Sage_Override on 05 May 2005 - 06:50
QUOTE You know, just saying something doesn't make it true.
Well howdy frickin' do, hillbilly. You just committed a classic case of contradiction. Take some of your own advice and shut up while you still can before you sound like Norman Bates. You're acting like a kid who's hyped up on methamphetamine and caffiene. See, I don't need to use trite examples of fallacies to counter-attack anyone. That's what you call "pseudo-intelligence." You, my dear friend, have the intelligence equivalent of a ten-year-old. Ok, maybe twelve.
Digging up a past comment against someone who had it coming was pretty sad, dude. I am an As*hole. Plain and simple, but I say whats on my mind. You like to break down what someone says and use textbook logic in your reasoning, while not really forming a cogent reasoning-base that necessitates a trace of individuality in your post. Grow up, get some social skills and get laid. Have a nice life.-
#10.14 Posted by PCyr on 05 May 2005 - 20:44
- Ok, I'm going to stop arguing with you. All you seem to do is find excuses for not hitting the quote button and addressing the real points. When you actually want to address all the points I made, and stop selectively picking what comments and points you want to cling to, then I'll reply.
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#10.15 Posted by Sage_Override on 06 May 2005 - 04:38
- You like contradicting yourself, don't you? You do the exact same thing. I rarely do what you do, only when it seems appropriate. Your whole f*cking respose consists of picking comments and picking them apart AND clinging to them, you thick headed moron. Damn, some people are really stupid
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#10.16 Posted by PCyr on 08 May 2005 - 21:34
- Wow, it's like with every reply you make, you address less points, and increase the vulgurness!
I guess it is too hard for you to hit that quote button and address any points. -
#10.17 Posted by Sage_Override on 09 May 2005 - 02:24
- Yeah and your last couple of posts were dripping with ideals. Get back in the box, loser. Only person you're impressing with your hypocratic sarcasm is your mom, who enjoys a good f*cking, so I'm told.
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#10.18 Posted by PCyr on 09 May 2005 - 04:32
- Wow, mom jokes? I'm impressed
Seems I was right, your last post had 49 words, 8% of which were insults, this post had 36 words, and 18% of them were insults.
And for the record, my last few posts didn't have points in them, because they were trying to get you to address the points raised many posts ago.
Are you so small-minded that you can't hit the quote button, but instead have to fill your posts with childish insults? I've been dealing with the facts of the arguement, you've been dealing with words you heard on South Park.
I await another barrage of childish, mediocre insults.
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#10.19 Posted by Sage_Override on 09 May 2005 - 11:08
- Why should I hit anything? So I can act like you? Cater to you? Please. I don't need to dissect comments like you do to get my point across. I do that just fine by making you look foolish in noticing that all you do is repeat yourself with the "hit quote button" bullsh*t. Get real, pal.
By the way, for your mediocre comment: You have some man juice on your chin. Sorry. I like jizzing in your face. It's humorous.
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(2 replies)
#11 Posted by Hankyone on 03 May 2005 - 19:02
- is SP3 supposed to come with WinFS and Aero UI?
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#11.1 Posted by Jugalator on 03 May 2005 - 19:06
- Of course not. Not even Longhorn is supposed to come with WinFS.
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#11.2 Posted by sphbecker on 03 May 2005 - 20:12
- The last I read WinFS was going to be back ported to XP along with the rest of WinFX, but that was before WinFS got push back to Longhorn's SP1, so WinFS may never make it to XP. Aero will not move to XP, but Avalon will.
As we have said 1000 times now, WinFS is not a search; it is not something the user would even notice. For all you know you could have WinFS installed right now and you would not see a difference. WinFS (like everything in WinFX) is strictly for developers to make "Longhorn Era Applications."
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#12 Posted by MtDewCodeRedFreak on 03 May 2005 - 20:48
- Hmm interesting.
I'll wait until Longhorn SP1.
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(1 reply)
#13 Posted by Dale on 04 May 2005 - 00:31
QUOTE Ballmer allegedly also said that IE7 would have anti-phishing technology built in.
what is anti-phishing?
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#14 Posted by MajinDark on 04 May 2005 - 03:15
- Aside from SP2, Win2K/XP Service Packs usually had roughly around a year in between releases, so if SP3 is just going to be a regular Service Pack, wouldn't that mean it would be out WAY before Longhorn anyway? SP2 came out in August 2004, and August of this year is only 3 months away, which would be the predicted release date for SP3 if MS keeps on that yearly schedule. Only thing I'm wondering is if IE 7 will be included in SP3.
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#15 Posted by Sage_Override on 04 May 2005 - 06:54
- ....hmm. Ok, then. Good times.
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#16 Posted by DG55 on 04 May 2005 - 21:22
- Cant they add a new visual style to this service pack? I dont understand why they dont add styles to service packs, refreshing the interface would be nice once in a while.
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#17 Posted by TripleH on 06 May 2005 - 02:59
- Why won't microsoft support my windows 3.1 on soon to be Microsoft upate... I'm so disappointed... What about all my security issues with Aol 2.5? WTF have people forgotten about me... Jesus all you people are Talking SP2, 3.. What happen to service pack 1 for windows 3.1? Gah... I want Opengl support, I want better security, pop up blockers... My FX-55 Won't run its 64 bit extensions on plain old 3.1... I want my service pack dang it.
From
Future Win 3.1 SP1(64x Extensions)
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#18 Posted by TripleH on 06 May 2005 - 03:05
- Opps dual post
Time for bed
A BLOG filing hidden away in the cobwebbed corners of the web suggests that Windows XP SP3 will hit before Longhorn does.
The blog is written by the guys at F-Secure. The information was handed out by Steve Ballmer, and the event was Surfa Lugnt, also known as Swedish National Data Security Day.
Ballmer allegedly also said that IE7 would have anti-phishing technology built in.
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