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Appeals promised against Microsoft's word XML patent

malebolgia   on 10 May 2005 - 21:26 · 23 comments & 2904 views

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The Intellectual Property Office of New Zealand has granted Microsoft its controversial patent over the use of XML in word processing documents, but the chair of the Open Source Society, Peter Harrison, says he will be lodging an appeal as soon as possible. An Auckland man, Michael Seadon, also says he has prior art that may prove the use of XML in word processing documents has been going on long before Microsoft asked for its patent to be granted.

“On the very day the W3C ratified XML 1.0 I sent well over 10,000 word-processor documents to a UK pharmaceutical company using XML.” Seadon says he will also be lodging an appeal against the patent. However, Harrison says he doesn’t believe Seadon’s find qualifies as prior art in this case. “The patent is quite specifically about Microsoft’s XML schema for word processing and unfortunately it’s not likely that [Seadon’s] documents meet that criterion.” Harrison says Microsoft’s attempt to patent an XML schema flies in the face of the reason XML was created.

News source: Computerworld


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(1 reply) #1 b0b on 10 May 2005 - 21:41
I don't understand. Is MS trying to patent XML or XML with MS Office? I know Bill wouldn't even think about patenting XML, as if some fuctard at MS decided to, he would fire them on the spot. Whats MS trying to patent?
#1.1 sphbecker on 11 May 2005 - 14:54
The use of XML with word-processing documents.
(6 replies) #2 MikeN on 10 May 2005 - 21:53
My (somewhat limited) understanding is that Microsoft is basically trying to patent the use of XML as a word processing file format. That is, how the XML file is used, not the XML file format itself. If approved, this would mean that something like the OpenOffice.org Writer file format would fall under Microsoft's patent. Another example of big business patent madness...
#2.1 markjensen on 10 May 2005 - 22:00
Agreed. The XML standard was created with the purpose to aid information interchange, not hinder it.
#2.2 HawkMan on 10 May 2005 - 22:31
They're patenting the use of a specific schema though.
#2.3 markjensen on 10 May 2005 - 22:42
Let me put up a few quotes from the linked-to article:
XML was designed to increase interoperability between systems and Microsoft’s attempt to patent one process undermines the reason XML was introduced in the first place.
and
"A patent must be specific enough to implement and Microsoft hasn’t given that level of detail in its application.” Harrison says the application lists the elements Microsoft uses but doesn’t say what they actually do.

It seems that Microsoft is positioning themselves for a "proprietary" standard.
#2.4 Mattimeo on 11 May 2005 - 00:06
All Microsoft is doing is trying to patent their schema, not the entire XML standard as people like to blow this as. Since it's their schema as they designed it, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to patent it.
#2.5 dp123 on 11 May 2005 - 00:37
Because, Mattimeo, whether or not another company uses their schema simply transforming your own schema to their's (the entire purpose of XML) may be patent-infringement, it may require license fees. Is this perfectly legal? Yes. Does it make the use of XML schemas to provide interoperability 100% useless? Possibly. Does it negate what many of us has said was bullsh!t in the first place, that Microsoft is supporting Open Standards so that others can cooperate with them more easily? Yes, absolutely.

Also, their patent application is so vague it does not necessarily just cover THEIR schema. The patent itself may swallow up whole or in part many OTHER schemas without the application being thoroughly vetted.
#2.6 Mattimeo on 11 May 2005 - 01:07
Well dp123, I guess I guess I see it differently. The big thrust of my argument is that they put time and money into designing this schema, and although it may be based off of an open standard they changed it (as that is allowed and done) and want to profit from this. If people find value in this then I really don't see an issue. If people don't, they simply won't use it and Microsoft will drop it. As for the application issue, if it is vague and trying to cover more then their schema, then I would agree with you and say they may be stepping over the line...but after all the litigation they have been through, I sure hope they know not to do that.
(1 reply) #3 Express on 10 May 2005 - 21:59
Microsoft like IBM files defensive patents.
That means that Microsoft doesn't use its patents to sue anyone.
Instead if you sue Microsoft they could use their patent portfolio to sue you back.
So I am more than happy to see any software patents under Microsoft's belt rather than some sue-happy lawyer firm.
#3.1 b0b on 10 May 2005 - 22:46
Now I get it. So how long before SCO decides to try Microsoft?
#4 toadeater on 10 May 2005 - 22:47
XML has been used in Wordprocessing long before M$ copied the idea. This patent is a farce and whoever in New Zealand allowed it to pass obviously doesn't know the computer industry very well.
(2 replies) #5 nic on 10 May 2005 - 23:01
QUOTE
“The patent is quite specifically about Microsoft’s XML schema for word processing and unfortunately it’s not likely that Seadon’s documents meet that criterion.”


I think the article could be a little more obvious, but I believe that the patent is actually over the Word XML Schema which is also known as Word Markup Language, or WordML. In this case I can see why Microsoft would submit a patent for a schema they invented. This would mean that programs that utilize their schema (and promote their compatibility with Word) would have to pay royalties to Microsoft (right?). Anyway, there are schema's that have been produces from everything to image information, sound, and 3d modelling in XML... I don't see why the authors of such schemas wouldn't be able to protect their works.

I hope this doesn't mean that they submitted a patent that would make any Word Processing program that utilizes XML (regardless of schema) would fall under their patent. Because that is just wrong. HTML, for example, is a subset of XML and has been used in a lot of different word processors for awhile now.
#5.1 Stef Nighthawk on 11 May 2005 - 11:42
shouldn't those schema's that produce image information, sound and 3D modelling in XML be protected by copyrights instead of patents?
#5.2 nic on 11 May 2005 - 18:13
hehe..i wasn't sure, that is why I left this line:
QUOTE
I don't see why the authors of such schemas wouldn't be able to protect their works.


vague...
#6 waz on 10 May 2005 - 23:04
All good things...
(3 replies) #7 Azadre on 10 May 2005 - 23:24
As a new user of Open Office (I believe piracy to be immoral), I feel that the interchange between word processers should allow for something typed on Word to be opened in OO and others.
#7.1 davs on 10 May 2005 - 23:36
what were you using before open office? notepad? wordpad? cmon.
#7.2 Azadre on 11 May 2005 - 00:03
I own Word 2002, but I have to install MS Works, which sucks. Plus PDF is a great feature that Word is missing.
#7.3 jon86 on 11 May 2005 - 14:42
You can install Word 2002 without installing Works. My older brother did so.
(2 replies) #8 SlakeT on 11 May 2005 - 00:58
IMO open office really blows. I tried it for a month. Such a pain. The latest office is the best handsdown.
#8.1 Mathiasdm on 11 May 2005 - 11:36
Well, that's your opinion. You're entitled to it.

However, you should give the Beta version of OpenOffice 2 a try.
It handles .doc files almost perfectly (about as good as the different office versions handles each others .doc files) and loads much faster (Okay, still 10 seconds, that sucks compared to word, but it's much faster than OpenOffice 1).
#8.2 HawkMan on 11 May 2005 - 22:55
hmm id handles doc files almost perfecty, it does ?

really. well then why is it when a project report that has sever numbered sections in it is loaded, OpenOffice actually "removes" large parts of the document by removign and rearranging the numbered sections to how it likes it.

yeah... almost perfectly... OO is usable. but if you have Access or can afford MS Office, there's no doubt wich you should go to.

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