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The Neowin Gadget, can gadgets trump widgets?

Cordelia   on 20 July 2005 - 21:06 · 37 comments & 5462 views

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For the past couple of years, we've heard a lot about widgets. Widgets are clever mini-applications that reside on users desktops. Programs such as DesktopX, Konfabulator, Kapsules, Samurize, amongst others have helped popularize putting this expanded content on users desktops.

Widgets have some nice advantages over traditional programs - they're small in file size, light on system resources, and visually cool looking. But they had disadvantages too -- they requiring downloading and installing the enabling program it was made for (DesktopX, Konfabulator, etc.). This has put a road-block in terms of getting widgets more mainstream and certainly has put a damper on their commercial distribution.

Stardock, the developer, has a solution: Gadgets. Gadgets are the same as widgets except that they don't require any additional downloads. They remain small in size, small in memory use, but can be used by anyone.

For example, the Neowin gadget is a full RSS monitor for Neowin created by Timan and Stardock. If it were a widget, users would first have to download a 10+ megabyte third party program to allow it to run (and most widget enablers aren't free either). But because it's a gadget, it requires no additional download. It also is less than a megabyte in size and uses only a couple megabytes in memory.

Gadgets are created with DesktopX Pro. Widget makers can export their creations as gadgets and then distribute it to anyone. Users can then download and use it without needing any additional third-party program.

View: Will Gadgets trump widgets?
Download: Neowin Gadget


You handle the "buggy" sides of things on the Firefox team. For those members who don't know how to correctly pinpoint bugs and to report them, what is the best way to go about doing that?

The best way to get involved is to use Firefox a lot and think about the things that aren't working for you when you use. If it's a web page that's not working, you can tell us with the new "Reporter" tool included in the Deer Park releases Help menu. If you're savvy with the languages of the web and you'd like to go a step further with reporting a problem site, you can check to see if it's already reported in Bugzilla and if it's not, file a bug with a simplified testcase that demonstrates the failure. If you find issues elsewhere in Firefox that aren't working for you, you can report those to the Mozillazine Bugs forums where a friendly community of Mozilla folks will help you determine if it's a bug or a reasonable feature request. If it belongs in Bugzilla, they'll help you get recorded there.

With the new "report a broken website" feature built into the upcoming Firefox 1.1, how will the problems be properly addressed?

I'm very excited about this tool. We haven't determined yet whether or not it will be in the final release but I think we'll definitely keep shipping it in our nightly testing builds and our alpha and beta releases. With this tool, we can aggregate data from literally hundreds of thousands of users about what sites aren't working. Then our QA team can analyze the highest visibility problems to determine if they are caused by bugs in Firefox, in which case we'll file bug reports and work to fix them, or if they're bugs in the website, in which case we'll contact the site and work with them to resolve the issue.

What kind of accessibility features does the Mozilla Foundation plan to incorporate into Firefox 1.1 and future Firefox releases?

Aaron Leventhal has been heading up the efforts to bring better accessibility support for the next Firefox release. The efforts are focused around basic keyboard accessibility as well as screen reader support. We're making great progress and I'm very much looking forward to shipping these improvements with the next release.

Where do you think the Firefox project is heading in the future?

That's such a broad question. I think Firefox is headed to the mainstream. We're going to continue to make inroads on the desktops of "regular people" all across the world. I think we're going to see increased corporate adoption as the Firefox experience,power and ease of use, trickle down from IT workers and sysadmins who are using it now to office desktops where the real numbers are. I think we're going to continue to improve on what is already an amazing web platform capable of supporting an exciting and user friendly new generation of web applications. And finally, I think that we are going to continue to improve our product so that it is more powerful and easier to deploy, and more accessible and friendly to use.

When switching over to FireFox from Netscape, what made you and the rest of the team choose the Gecko engine instead of another Browser engine such as KHTML or Presto?

We were Mozilla people and we'd been working with the Mozilla rendering engine and toolkit for years. Firefox was not just about making a better browser, it was about building a world class browser on the Mozilla platform -- one that would appeal to tens or hundreds of millions of people. Gecko was considerably more mature than KHTML, capable of rendering a much larger swath of the web, and the XUL toolkit was a powerful and easy to use platform for building the Firefox application. There was never any consideration of using one of the other, less capable, rendering engines for Firefox.

With a new update system coming to FireFox what big changes can we expect to see and when can we see expect to see them?

Well, we've already implemented the basics of this new system which include a robust notification, download, and installation mechanism for getting new releases of Firefox. I'm using this now to update Firefox each day to the latest testing build. The new system features pause and resume, background downloading, and a simpler user interface. Next in line will be the incremental update system which will allow us to deliver smaller patches to users rather than a new 4 MB download. The incremental update will make it possible for us to deliver updates much faster and more reliably than the current system. After that, we're looking at options for what we're tentatively calling "update channels". You could, for example, subscribe to "security updates only" or if you were daring, you might subscribe to "alpha and beta updates." For the Mozilla testing community, they could subscribe to "daily updates" and get the 200K patch that covers the changes between yesterday's build and today's.

The Opera browser has some nice "eye candy" to it that makes some users grasp it more, can we expect to see some new "eye candy" in Firefox in the future?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "eye candy" but we're certainly working hard to streamline features and make them easier for users to grasp. When you reach an audience of tens of millions, you're beyond just the power users and bleeding edge so you really have to focus on making things digestible to "regular people." It's not like the old days of the Mozilla 1.x Application Suite when we had one or two percent market share and we could pile on new features knowing that most of our audience would understand. We take a lot of care in building a powerful browser that tens or even hundreds of millions of users would be completely comfortable using.

What are your reactions to the recent comments of Opera's CEO,Jon von Tetzchner, in an interview with ZDNet UK?

"A lot of people don't like our ads, which is sad as we don't have a rich sugar daddy like the Mozilla Foundation. They [the Mozilla Firefox team] don't have to think about money as they're being funded. We're not being funded," said von Tetzchner

"Sadly the statistics are undercounting Opera and overcounting Firefox. Opera has a better caching mechanism so it doesn't access Web sites as often as other browsers. Firefox has added a pre-loading feature that Google has made use of. This inflates the numbers on the statistics," von Tetzchner said.


I'd rather not get into this kind of "he said, she said" with Jon. Opera is a fine niche browser with a very loyal user base and there's just no value in responding to remarks that I suspect he'd take back if he could. I will say, however, that I'm very, very happy to be working for an organization that puts the user first and money second. We have a product that's loved by tens of millions of users and we don't have to sacrifice our user experience in any way in order to remain a viable organization.

Can we expect to see more Firefox publicity in the near future such as, commercials and more magazine ads?

We're working on a major overhaul to the Spread Firefox community marketing platform and we certainly have plans for more community activities promoting Firefox. I think we're going to focus on more creative ways to spend money than commercials or magazine ads, though. We've got a very excited and very smart community of about 115,000 users at Spread Firefox and you can bet that they're capable of making Firefox publicity happen in novel and powerful ways :-)

And Lastly, what are your top 5 favourite FireFox extensions?

I'm, believe it or not, not a heavy extension user. I love extensions and I've tested just about every one available. In the end I disable or uninstall most of them because Firefox "just works" for me without any serious modifications. I do like the Resizable Text area extension which makes posting at my blog and in Bugzilla a bit easier. I also like Feedview which makes it easy to take a quick look at an RSS feed before I save it as a Live Bookmark or subscribe in Thunderbird. Until recently I was also using the miniT extension which lets you drag and drop reorder your tabs. Now that we've added that as a standard behavior, I don't need it any more. That's about it for what I use with any regularity.

Thank you for your time Asa.

Thank you!

Post a comment · Send to friend Comments · There are 37 additional comments
#1 m0rpheen on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:16
very cool
(7 replies) #2 Makeshift Hammer on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:17
I really don't see thew purpose of these things. You need to be online for them to function, you need to open your browser if you want more detail etc......just visit the page?

Blah blah blah.........to me it's like having a different t.v for each channel available, kinda pointless.
#2.1 Mascrin on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:19
It's just an example of a widget/gadget. It could be anything you might want to make.
#2.2 Makeshift Hammer on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:21
I know. But i've seen clocks etc too (and the people still have their sys tray clock showing ) I dunno. I'm sure plenty of people find them very useful and i'm just not an imaginative person.
#2.3 Frogboy on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:30
That's the whole point of gadgets though. With widgets, you end up with tons of clocks and other piddly things because as another poster points out, what developer wants to make something really cool only to then point users to go buy some other program in order to use it?

That is what makes gadgets worthwhile. Now people can focus on creating more advanced things. The technology of widgets is fantastic. What kills them, what makes people end up making countless clocks and RSS readers is that no one wants to put too much time into something where they're at the mercy of some other program to even function.
#2.4 Ned on 20 Jul 2005 - 23:39
What's the lowest price for gas in your area?

I have a widget that tells me that. I also have cpu usage and a calendar

Last edited by 76077 on 21 Jul 2005 - 00:03
#2.5 Xcursion on 20 Jul 2005 - 23:50
QUOTE
That's the whole point of gadgets though. With widgets, you end up with tons of clocks and other piddly things because as another poster points out, what developer wants to make something really cool only to then point users to go buy some other program in order to use it?

You can use Samurize for widgets and it is a free program. Why would a developer want to pay to make these gadgets while they could make widgets for free?

On the DesktopX Professional purchase page, it says that to buy the Pro version, you have to pay $499. 499 dollars to be able to make gadgets? I am sorry, I'd rather pay the 10 or 20 dollars to be able to use widgets or even the free option and make widgets instead of paying 499 dollars to be able to make them.

Unless of course you mean mean DesktopX Pro(purchase page) which says it is $69.95 which is also more than the programs that run widgets.

On a side note, I would like to suggest you sort out those two products. People can get confused easily.
#2.6 Frogboy on 21 Jul 2005 - 02:45
I don't think you're understanding the point: Gadgets don't require ANY third party program to be involved for users.

Let's say I choose Samurize (or Kapsules) to make a kick-ass little applet. Before someone can use my widget, I have to tell users to go and download and install Samurize. With DesktopX Pro the developer can export it as a stand-alone program. And to any serious developer, $70 is insignificant.
#2.7 mugwhump on 22 Jul 2005 - 00:40
As long as I don't personally have to install any Stardock cludge on my system, I'm all for gadgets. That would make or break the deal for me.
#3 camsoft on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:18
Now that is cool!
#4 b0m8er on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:20
Very nice! Thanks!
#5 Mascrin on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:20
I love it! I've toyed with the idea of making widgets in the past but why should I spend massive hours making something really sweet only to have to tell my users that they have to go and download some other program, and pay THEM, to use my program?

In some ways, widgets are the modern-day version of VBRun.dll. The gadget path is a much better solution imho.
#6 hotdog963al on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:54
<BIG HUG>
What I REALLY want to see-
-A neater more together Forum page
-A refresh button
= no more refreshing the main page for new forum posts!
#7 kinetix63 on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:55
Blasted thing doesn't work for me Neowin Gadget just freezes when I open it!
#8 Lee69 on 20 Jul 2005 - 21:59
Cheers.
(5 replies) #9 mastermik on 20 Jul 2005 - 22:35
why does the darned in-widget browser redirect to IE?? dont you see that we're tryin to avoid that curse of a browser here...
#9.1 rm20010 on 21 Jul 2005 - 02:20
Well it uses the IE ActiveX.

If you can suggest some similar technology that is powered by Gecko (or some engine), by all means, go for it.
#9.2 The_Decryptor on 21 Jul 2005 - 06:36
there is a Gecko ActiveX control, it has the exact same properties and mehods as the IE one.

Might not work if you make assuptions about the IE control though.
#9.3 ghos on 21 Jul 2005 - 20:47
I only tried it briefly, but when I clicked on an article to read it opened right in Firefox for me which I was happy about.
#9.4 NeoTrunks on 21 Jul 2005 - 20:55
Yup. The articles just open up a new tab in Firefox for me. You just have to make sure your default browser is set to whatever you want the links to open in.
#9.5 rm20010 on 22 Jul 2005 - 17:01
Not really. Yes, if you click on the article link it will open in your default browser (IE, Firefox, Opera, Netscape, whatever). But try viewing it in the built in browser (click beneath the link) and then click one of the links inside the browser. It launches IE.
#10 jimbo11883 on 20 Jul 2005 - 23:23
Bugs:
Crash after changing settings.
&amp; in urls cause problems with forums.
&amp; and other HTML entities showing up in display.

Last edited by 3202 on 20 Jul 2005 - 23:52
#11 rm20010 on 21 Jul 2005 - 02:23
The gadget works well, however I'm still sticking with the RSSRead widget I found on Wincustomize.

Both of them suffer an identical problem: clicking on an entry for forums doesn't work.
#12 Sage_Override on 21 Jul 2005 - 03:00
"Fine then. Let's just say we're making widgets."
"What's a widget?"
"It's a fictional product; it doesn't matter."
(3 replies) #13 Neomac v6 on 21 Jul 2005 - 03:09
I know this is a Win-centric site, but I'll state the obvious: Mac OS X Tiger already runs widgets without the need to install a third-party application. They zoom out over your workspace via Dashboard, then zoom back out of the way when you're finished with them. There are nearly 1000 widgets currently downloadable via the Apple site.

Windows will inevitably include a similar feature, but it won't be implemented as well (Apple has patented the Dashboard paradigm).

I realize some widgets have little more than novelty value, but some are really useful for quickly acquiring info without having to navigate the website (eg. eBay item tracking, package tracking, language translator, currency conversion, stock prices, TV guide, weather readings etc). Especially if they fetch info from multiple places and bring it together.

Last edited by 119298 on 21 Jul 2005 - 04:02
#13.1 Frogboy on 21 Jul 2005 - 03:46
You consider Dashboard a good implementation of widgets? Maybe when you add amnesty but without it, it's pretty flawed.

BTW, Windows users had widgets first. DesktopX was released in 2000.
#13.2 Neomac v6 on 21 Jul 2005 - 04:06
I haven't seen Amnesty in action, but Dashboard seems like the best way to access widgets quickly then get them outta the way again.

I know Apple isn't always first with new technology, but when they get there they usually do it right.
#13.3 rm20010 on 22 Jul 2005 - 17:03
QUOTE
Windows will inevitably include a similar feature, but it won't be implemented as well (Apple has patented the Dashboard paradigm).


Typical Apple and their legal team backing them up

QUOTE
I know Apple isn't always first with new technology, but when they get there they usually do it right.


Yeah, at least they got the UI right. It's nice and streamlined.
#14 imtoomuch on 21 Jul 2005 - 04:37
So basically a "gadget" is just a small application...
#15 Arckon on 21 Jul 2005 - 04:50
I just tried the neowin gadget and want to see some more gadgets! Where else can I find them?
(1 reply) #16 Artz on 21 Jul 2005 - 07:04
Fix the link to the Gadget and news to www.wincustomize.org
#16.1 ghos on 21 Jul 2005 - 20:52
.org? its linked correctly ;-)
#17 Moe Szyslak on 21 Jul 2005 - 15:43
links from the widget in the forum section give topic does not exist error.
(1 reply) #18 Fubar on 21 Jul 2005 - 19:26
only thing i dont like about this gadget is the fact i cant set the colour to black lol plus it has trouble getting the links in the forum bit
#18.1 ghos on 21 Jul 2005 - 20:55
I'm sure if you own DX you can make these customizations yourself. However I should think it would be possible to include it in the gadget itself as well. It just wasn't implemented for this first version. I'd like to be able to resize it as well. Also I don't like the Forum tab, needs more information I think.
However its a good start and I'm glad that gadgets are here finally.
#19 galoosh33 on 21 Jul 2005 - 20:45
Cool stuff! I'm looking forward to seeing more of these gadgets soon!
#20 BigCheese on 23 Jul 2005 - 13:18
I like the way that I can use this without installing a full widget application liek DesktopX.

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