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(8 replies) #1 Posted by Ramble™ on 30 Jul 2005 - 11:34

Aye, Zen's are so much better than iPods.

#1.1 Posted by ProgramGeek on 30 Jul 2005 - 11:40

I've been considering getting a Zen. May I ask you, what do you think make Zen alot better then Ipods?

#1.2 Posted by nezermundy on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:02

One thing has to be the removeable bettery and supports mcirsoft outlook, you can snyc reminders and contacts from Ms outlook.

#1.3 Posted by jagedEdge on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:11

Although it can't sync with Address Book or iCal, while the iPod can. You can't say that's a better feature when it's only the same but using a different program.

#1.4 Posted by mzhao on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:29

The Zen Micro has a voice recorder, FM radio + recorder, and a few more features that iPod users have to pay ~$20-30 each for. Plus, the Zen's just that much cooler, in my opinion

#1.5 Posted by deadmonkey on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:13

I bought a Zen Micro at Christmas. It is ok but the battery life is pretty poor (only gets around 8-9 hours not 12 like it says) and the software it uses (both on the player and PC) is very poor.

Using Windows Media Player 10 was ok but the Creative seemed too busy adding new features and forgot about the old ones which still had bugs.

In June I had enough and bought an iPod mini mainly because they bought out the new models with better battery life (18 hours). I have to say I couldn't be happier. The mini has good battery life (17 hours is what I get) and the software on the iPod is excellent. iTunes is good but not as smooth as WMP10. Does a fine job syncing with the iPod though.

The problem with the Zen Micro is that it doesn't feel finished whereas the iPod has an overall great experience. Only the slow UI in iTunes is annoying about the "iPod experience".

#1.6 Posted by mswarts on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:38

Guess what? It looks like a piece of trash! I don't see this square microwave-looking media player ever becoming the hit the iPod is. I don't even own an iPod - I can just see a huge quality drop in the Zen in terms of appearance. Apple is the innovator; Creative isthe imitator.

#1.7 Posted by aristotle-dude on 30 Jul 2005 - 21:57

Better? For PC users who want all those features and have less than 5GB of music perhaps. I have over 6 gigs and I don't have a PC, it does not suit me.

If you have a PC, need those extra features right away, have a small music collection and don't want to use iTMS, then yeah the Zen is great.
YMMV

#1.8 Posted by lodgepole on 01 Aug 2005 - 14:59

QUOTE

So would you buy it over an iPod?

I DID buy it over the iPod. Mostly for the subscription service support it offers and seemed like a better price point over the iPod.

(4 replies) #2 Posted by ProgramGeek on 30 Jul 2005 - 11:36

Neowin likes to review things often because the people behind the scenes get to keep the hardware.

#2.1 Posted by Mr magoo on 30 Jul 2005 - 11:36

Heh, I wish. Just to be clear, PR companies don't let us keep most of the stuff we review - so there is not a bias there - we're not obliged to give a good review, and are not being bought off.

#2.2 Posted by ProgramGeek on 30 Jul 2005 - 11:41

I'm just jealous. Oh, and bias wasn't my problem, it was just because you get press access to test out goodies and sometimes keep them. I want to do that please. programgeek (at) gmail.com if you want the best reviewer in your life.

#2.3 Posted by Byron_Hinson on 30 Jul 2005 - 13:13

Gonna say it doesnt sound like bias, seems a good review. Loads of people will assume sites keep all the hardware they get given, but its rare, good though when it does happen ;o)

#2.4 Posted by Mr magoo on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:19

What a lovely compliment - thanks Byron. Still love visiting Activewin

(13 replies) #3 Posted by kryptonate on 30 Jul 2005 - 11:46

QUOTE

ask any iPod owner whether they've ever had it crash on them, and they'd be lying if they said it didn't happen on a reasonably frequent basis.

I have another experience , mine crashed only once in 6 months, never had any other problems with it.

#3.1 Posted by The_Decryptor on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:07

Same here, in the time i have had my iPod (almost a year) it has never crashed on me, not once.

the only issue i had was after i messed with the firmware, and that was my fault.

Now, before anybody says i'm bias or so forth, i dont care who makes a device, if it has issues, i'll speak about them, if my iPod kept crashing on me, i would be the first to point it out, fact is, i havent had a problem with mine.

#3.2 Posted by GODofPAIN on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:15

no problems here either

#3.3 Posted by Enigma-Penguin on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:19

Mine crashes all the time and apple refuses to replace it

#3.4 Posted by TomAL on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:48

I had my ipod mini for a while now with no crashes.... Infact used a creative iRiver the other day and found the interface to be very irrational, not user friendly at all and the system was very slow (although yes it does have alot of features). You can just tell apple has thought about the ipod, im still amazed at the 20hr battery life!

#3.5 Posted by virtorio on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:48

I've only ever had one problem with my iPod where it wouldn't Update properly. I just disabled and then re-enabled photo synchronization and it all started working again.

#3.6 Posted by Byron_Hinson on 30 Jul 2005 - 13:12

Only problem I've ever had on an ipod is the updating of tracks, but that turned out to be a problem with having an iSight webcam and the ipod plugged in at t he same time. Had the odd crash on the ipod, but its so rare i don't notice. Now a portable media center is where the crashes really show up!

#3.7 Posted by bangbang023 on 30 Jul 2005 - 14:28

QUOTE

Infact used a creative iRiver the other day

Huh? It's one or the other.

#3.8 Posted by theyarecomingforyou on 30 Jul 2005 - 14:56

My iPod would lock, sometimes go silent until the next track, randomly turn off, sometimes the song game database would be missing, would add distortion when using any EQ preset, etc. It was so problematic I just ended up selling it.

Creative don't seem to have those problems, but I've had the headphone socket come loose (causing sound to flip into mono) with the Zen Nomad (requiring it to be returned) and have read about it happening to the Micro as well.

#3.9 Posted by jagedEdge on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:14

Never had a crash or other problem with my iPod mini. I've dropped it numerous times (on concrete) by accident and still have not had a problem with it.

#3.10 Posted by acoustikrage on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:55

mine has only crashed once in the two years i've had it, but that was due to user inexperience when i first got it.

#3.11 Posted by jasondefaoite on 31 Jul 2005 - 01:30

Yup, mine crashed once, within about 1 month of having it. Its been fine from then onwards, have it just over a year now.

#3.12 Posted by psgamer0921 on 31 Jul 2005 - 16:14

Mine crashed a time or two within the first day, but after that I've been fine

#3.13 Posted by Cubiz on 01 Aug 2005 - 06:27

I've had mine since christmas '04 and it's only crashed once.

#4 Posted by vassie on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:06

I love my Zen Micro, my girlfriend borrowed it because the battery on her iPod mini was flat, now she wants one!

#5 Posted by adonai on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:19

Great review man, thanks. I'm glad to see radio coming to many of these players. But when are they going to realize that there are many sports nuts and talk radio addicts that are being ignored by not including AM as well as FM?

That's all that's keeping me from buying one of these.

#6 Posted by LPC on 30 Jul 2005 - 12:26

Yup the wife has had one for a few months. Glad they've fixed the battery headphones problem ... it's a great cheep little MP3 / WMA player .

(1 reply) #7 Posted by SojIrOu on 30 Jul 2005 - 13:18

hmm my friend felt the complete opposite. lol. his zen micro's headphone jack broke and he preferred my mini's aluminum finish. ah well still creative products are great value.

#7.1 Posted by sin™ on 31 Jul 2005 - 17:54

umm yea, im sure folks are going to base their decisions on which headphone is more shiny.

#8 Posted by dragon2611 on 30 Jul 2005 - 13:57

Its worth noting theres 2 different firmware versions for the zen

The normal firmware and then there is 'play for sure' firmware which allows it to play DRM protected content.

both can be downloaded from the creative website

(3 replies) #9 Posted by KzR on 30 Jul 2005 - 14:22

Creative's Zen is superior to iPod, but Creative is still losing market share to Apple. I guess Apple did a superb job in marketing the iPod brand.

#9.1 Posted by Ideas Man on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:01

When you consider the great lengths they've gone to for product placement such as that stupid scene in blade 3 where she says apple, ipod and itunes a few times to get the message across, then they focus on all the gear, it doesn't suprise, nor does it impress me.

#9.2 Posted by mzhao on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:32

Steve Jobs has psychic powers or something. Either that or the bright white plastic finish on Apple's products are sucking n00bs in like crazy

#9.3 Posted by tophat on 31 Jul 2005 - 15:08

It's called Steve's RDF. Look it up on wikipedia - here

#10 Posted by galoosh33 on 30 Jul 2005 - 14:38

my friend has it it's pretty cool.

btw, why does the article say june 09?

(2 replies) #11 Posted by harry4321 on 30 Jul 2005 - 14:43

nice review, i have recommended the zen micro over the iPod mini to my friend.

Does anyone know if this was a US or UK spec? i read somewhere the UK version doesnt come with the charger and the stand/beltclip. Was this an orignal Zen Micro or the new SE version?

Cheers

#11.1 Posted by Jon on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:05

I've just bought one from ebuyer (in the UK), and it did come with the charger and stand/beltclip, however it has a sticker on the front saying "includes accessories worth £29.99 for a limited time period", which means the stand thing I think.

I'm really happy with the little thing, it feels smaller every time I handle it. I've bought some bettter headphones which as really made a difference, and may get the remote control because skipping songs without removing it from your pocket is a bit hit + miss.

And I wish 'previous/back' would actually work when it's in random mode, sometimes I want to hear the same song again, maybe I like it or missed a bit, but instead it seems to well behave randomly. Sometimes it goes back to the last song, sometimes it picks a new one. Odd.

#11.2 Posted by OCedHrt on 01 Aug 2005 - 20:46

I've never used a Zen, but on my player in order to replay the track, you have to press previous/back before the track ends.

(3 replies) #12 Posted by hotdog963al on 30 Jul 2005 - 14:58

They both play Mp3s. They both work. Who cares which one is better. Go for the cheapest one with the most space

#12.1 Posted by Acid on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:09

Because it doesn't matter if your battery dies, the player locks up frequently, the warranty, the formats it plays, the sound quality delivered, personal taste in design, etc.

My ZM rocks. I got one of those Sumajin smart wraps for my buds so the cord wouldn't be all over the place and its so much nicer now too.

#12.2 Posted by jagedEdge on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:21

Right, because in the 10 minutes I tried the Zen Micro, it locked up. The formats it plays? I could care less that it plays WMA if it can't play AAC (what my whole library is in). Sound quality is somewhat better, I'll admit, but it's not noticeable for every day headphone play. Can't take your personal taste in design for you, but I definitely go for the more minimalistic one (the mini). Looks aside, the Zen is fatter than the mini, making it more of a bulge in your pocket. I'd definitely take taller and skinnier over shorter and fatter anyday if it's gonna be in my jeans pocket all the time.

#12.3 Posted by hotdog963al on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:58

Hah, I Have a crappy little 128MB player which cost me 40 quid. Its terrible, always breaks and stuff, but I don't care. As long as it's cheap and it plays Mp3s without locking up most of the time, It's ok for me
Oh and, WTF? Why is this pinned?!?

(2 replies) #13 Posted by tophat on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:24

I've got one of these, and have to admit it's pretty nice. Good features, good form factor.

The one problem I have with this player is that the included software leaves a lot to be desired. On the other hand, you're not locked into one bit of software (e.g. itunes) and can choose between a bunch of different programs to sync. So, the iffy software package isn't such a huge deal. (Still looking for software I like, though.)

There's one thing that this review didn't really mention, which I think is important. When you move files to the ipod, you sync the files to your itunes. Itunes keeps a master list of songs and matches the ipod to that list. So, if you delete a song off your computer, the song gets deleted from your ipod. This is so you can't get songs off of multiple machines. Nor can you move music from your ipod to a machine. (without using some sort of hack)

The zen doesn't do this. Its software treats the zen like an external drive. Assuming I install a driver on every machine, I can move mp3s to the zen from wherever without losing data. And, I can move mp3s from my zen to my other machines.

It looks like a minor issue at first, but it shows the big difference on how the companies view you the end-user. Creative seems to be a bit more user-friendly.

#13.1 Posted by Jon on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:39

If you've ever used Sonys software, you'll find Creatives a pure joy to work with

#13.2 Posted by no_flame on 30 Jul 2005 - 22:15

With the last firmware, you can control the Zen from WMP without any drivers or any Creative software at all.

(3 replies) #14 Posted by Darkinspiration on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:28

I'm still not buying anything creative until they rethink theyre decision of not distributing theyre hardware driver son theyre website.

#14.1 Posted by Smigit on 31 Jul 2005 - 05:16

http://creative.com/language.asp?sDestUrl=/support/downloads

#14.2 Posted by Darkinspiration on 01 Aug 2005 - 02:18

That still gives you only updates. Witch you cannot install unless you have the original CD

#14.3 Posted by OCedHrt on 01 Aug 2005 - 20:49

Its the software that cannot be installed without the original CD. Drivers can be installed just fine w/o the original CD, although when drivers and software are bundled together, it may take some more effort.

(4 replies) #15 Posted by tele-fragd on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:38

Why do all MP3 reviews always involve comparing it to an iPod? I don't see much of a point.

#15.1 Posted by Mr magoo on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:19

The iPod was the first, and remains the market leader by quantity?

#15.2 Posted by Ahnteis on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:02

Ipod was far, far from first.

#15.3 Posted by enzo on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:30

Indeed, Rio audio made the first comsumer mp3 player.

#15.4 Posted by Darkinspiration on 01 Aug 2005 - 02:19

But the Ipod is now the accepted referance. Just like Half-life is the accepted referance in FPS review along with quake 3

(1 reply) #16 Posted by Oogle on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:40

Does the Zen player support the idea of dynamic playlists?

For example, when I listen to songs on my iPod, I like to rate them on-the-fly. I play all songs rated 4-stars or higher. This way, if I get tired of a song, I can just use the player itself to remove the song from the playlist by rating it 3 stars or lower.

Also, I have dynamic playlists that randomly play songs I haven't heard in a month. This way, I can always get fresh new beats I haven't heard in a while.

If the Zen player supports this type of functionality as well, I'll probably consider getting one.

#16.1 Posted by Jon on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:09

It's got a DJ feature which offers most popular, rarely heard, and album of the day.

I'm not sure about this idea of altering the rating of a song from the device itself. I've not looked for it, because I like random to be just that.. random!

(2 replies) #17 Posted by plasticparadox on 30 Jul 2005 - 15:41

QUOTE

Read on for our in-depth look at the Zen Micro.

Didn't even go into software, supported codecs, nothing.

#17.1 Posted by Jon on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:14

Seemed a good review to me, unfortunate that the device provided was pink!

It's worth noting that it does appear to charge when plugged into PC via the USB2 cable, so in theory you don't need the AC adapter.

#17.2 Posted by Manksgloob on 31 Jul 2005 - 07:06

That is correct. I can charge through the USB port.

The first and second shipments of the Zen Micros in the US were sold in the larger boxes and contained both a USB cable as well as an outlet charger, with the latter being a "promotional" item. The newer smaller boxes no longer contain the outlet adapter and rely on just the USB charging method unless the consumer is willing to shell out more money to buy the outlet charger.

#18 Posted by wtaag on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:14

Although I like the Zen Micro, I had to return mine because the unit died on me within a week of purchasing it. When I would boot the device, all I would see would be a 'Creative' logo. Pretty lame none the less and at the time it was $229. I prefer that it supports Napster and Yahoo Music Unlimited (Superior Music Offerings when compared to iTunes), i just convert all my content for my new iPod Mini. I settled down on the Mini for the 3rd Party Accessories mainly. To each there own tho. I'm looking forward to see some flashed based players from Creative and others that will support Napster and Yahoo Music Unlimited.

#19 Posted by sumeet on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:17

thats what i got, and i never been happier

(2 replies) #20 Posted by digistil on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:32

This reviewer is an idiot. IPods crash all the time???? Whateves...clearly a Creative fanboy.

#20.1 Posted by rm20010 on 30 Jul 2005 - 18:19

Go look at yourself in a mirror before calling someone a fanboy.

Those iPods do crash; it's a fact. Same with other MP3 players. The only things that won't ever crash 100% of the time are CD players. OK?

#20.2 Posted by jasondefaoite on 31 Jul 2005 - 07:44

^^ There's a difference between a crash, and crashing "all the time", which is why digistil is calling the reviewer an idiot.

So one of the selling points of the creative, according to the reviewer is coz iPods crash all the time. You're saying all mp3 players crash at some point. So are you agreeing the reviewer is an idiot?

#21 Posted by altezza on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:33

I own a white ZM and proud of it

#22 Posted by Lazy Tiger on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:39

I agree with the review, I brought a Micro after going through three iPods that kept screwing up!

#23 Posted by James_McNab on 30 Jul 2005 - 16:47

People only buy iPods because of the brand and all the marketing. They are actually not that good compared to the Creative alternative.

I don't like apple, plus I think iPods look ugly.

BTW there are some spelling mistakes on the picture link urls that mean you get 404s instead.

(6 replies) #24 Posted by dL on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:18

I must be lying then? My iPod has never crashed. And it's almost 1 year now.

Also, I feel the review is a bit biased, but oh well, this is a "Windows-based" community, of course Micro wins. First off, I haven't see any cons described in this review, which every review out there MUST have. There is no perfection in this world, hence why should a product be perfect? Maybe Magoo forgot it. Secondly, the pink looks very hideous (my opinion). That has nothing to do with the Micro quality, just saying the colours that Zen Micro offers is quite ugly - except black, white, silver etc. Design-wise, well it's all self-opinion, but I think iPod has a much better design than the Micro. Lastly, navigating the Zen Micro is a pain. I've tried it myself and have either went too far, or not enough. I rarely get to go where I wanted to. Not to mention also that the navigation scheme is a direct copy from iPod. I wonder why Apple hasn't sued Creative yet. However, iPod's scroll wheel is simply #1. Well, I guess nobody can copy that idea anymore, that's why.

What about the software? Obviously the iTunes beat the Creative softwares hands down. Again, another CONs.

Packed with many features, does anyone use the recorder on a daily basis? Radio-wise, I thought this was a MP3 player, just like cell phones with Internet access. In addition, iPod has Podcast, and the quality is MUCH better than radio quality. I feel that is very redundant, but I guess companies innovate by adding irrelevant features. I'm not saying the features are useless, they're good, but they're overlooked at. For the audio quality of Zen Micro, I must admit the "number" of db is higher than iPod, but I personally cannot hear any difference. Remember, MP3 Player is for portable, so when you are walking on the street with cars passing by, or standing inside the bus, can you really hear a difference? It's all marketing scheme, in my honest opinions.

Overall, the Zen Micro is one of the most successful / innovative MP3 player Creative has ever created. It will most likely be my 3rd choice of mp3 players, 1st being the iPod, 2nd being the iRiver H10 (Hard-drive based).

dL

Last edited by 28244 on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:25

#24.1 Posted by Jon on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:39

QUOTE

but I guess companies innovate by adding irrelevant features

I have no idea how you can call adding audio features to a portable audio device irrelevent.

#24.2 Posted by enzo on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:28

QUOTE

In addition, iPod has Podcast

podcasting is not limited to the iPod.
Apple developed a common repository through itunes, but podcasts are available for d/l at the individual source websites.
It is a mistake "podcasting" got that name, IMO, because it makes people believe it is only for the iPod.

#24.3 Posted by vacantmind on 30 Jul 2005 - 22:39

Good little doggy. Maybe Jobs will give you recognition some day for blowing him so well.

OR MAYBE NOT! HARHARHARHHAR

#24.4 Posted by Smigit on 31 Jul 2005 - 06:08

QUOTE

Secondly, the pink looks very hideous (my opinion). That has nothing to do with the Micro quality, just saying the colours that Zen Micro offers is quite ugly - except black, white, silver etc. Design-wise, well it's all self-opinion, but I think iPod has a much better design than the Micro. Lastly, navigating the Zen Micro is a pain. I've tried it myself and have either went too far, or not enough. I rarely get to go where I wanted to. Not to mention also that the navigation scheme is a direct copy from iPod. I wonder why Apple hasn't sued Creative yet. However, iPod's scroll wheel is simply #1. Well, I guess nobody can copy that idea anymore, that's why. What about the software? Obviously the iTunes beat the Creative softwares hands down. Again, another CONs. Packed with many features, does anyone use the recorder on a daily basis? Radio-wise, I thought this was a MP3 player, just like cell phones with Internet access. In addition, iPod has Podcast, and the quality is MUCH better than radio quality. I feel that is very redundant, but I guess companies innovate by adding irrelevant features. I'm not saying the features are useless, they're good, but they're overlooked at. For the audio quality of Zen Micro, I must admit the "number" of db is higher than iPod, but I personally cannot hear any difference. Remember, MP3 Player is for portable, so when you are walking on the street with cars passing by, or standing inside the bus, can you really hear a difference? It's all marketing scheme, in my honest opinions.

See that bit I bolded, apply that all the points you made and perhaps your post will be reasobable. That included your oppinion on:
colour
design
navigation
the fact that scroll wheel is number 1
the usefullness of a recorder
radio (no its a Digital Audio Player designed to play audio, how is radio useless).

And your oppinion on MP3. whats that based on? Firstly not everyone is using a player in the street and MP3 naturally produces file sizes alot larger than those produced by most other compression schemes (with better quality sound at the same time). Naturally it also means you can fit more files onto a player. And a podcast is simply a recorded file, of course it sounds better but it isn't live is it? As for irrelevant features, why is Apple adding photo support, tv out (or whatever I think it has, I may be wrong) and they are rumoured to support video soon (inevitably they will probably have radio ect at the same time I bet you also)

#24.5 Posted by aristotle-dude on 01 Aug 2005 - 22:09

QUOTE

I have no idea how you can call adding audio features to a portable audio device irrelevent.

Maybe someone can explain it to you what "most" people use their music "players" for. They use them to "listen" to music, not record lectures. That is a "niche" feature which you can buy and addon for.

I don't know about you but I don't want to pay for feature I would never use.

Also, people who want to listen to FM can either get a really "cheap" FM tuner or buy an addon for that "niche" functionality.

QUOTE

vacantmind wrote: Good little doggy. Maybe Jobs will give you recognition some day for blowing him so well.

Man, you seem to be preoccupied with Steve Jobs and his meat and two veg. I don't think you are his type consider he has a "wife" and children.

#24.6 Posted by mugwhump on 01 Aug 2005 - 23:47

Must break your heart, aristotle.

#25 Posted by NrthnStar5 on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:37

i LOVE my zen

#26 Posted by phkhoury on 30 Jul 2005 - 17:45

QUOTE

A slim, personal media player for the e-generation

Haha, gotta love this description.

(1 reply) #27 Posted by matt546 on 30 Jul 2005 - 18:12

I love my zen micro. Always have. When I first saw this go up on the NomadWorld website, I coudnt wait for it to be released. It has much more features as the news article says over the iPod. I know my friend has owned 3 iPods and 2 Ipod minis which have all crashed and died on him within 2 months of owning (he did have a refund though) and after the 5th crash he decided to try my zen micro and he loved it. He hasnt had a problem since. And compared to the iPod mini (4GB) the zen micro comes in 4GB,5GB, and 6GB sizes and well as many different colors to choose from. I personally have the black one and my friend has the silver one. Its cool at night when it glows a nice blue glow Its really cool. Unlike the iPod the zen micro has a back light - good for when on a road trip at night

@DL - Some people have better luck that others with iPods. My friends had crashed 5 times! Before purchasing a zen micro. Another friend also had a "corrupted file" on his playeer and he coudnt return it. The Cons: the battery life may be a little shorter than the iPod, but its worth it with all the extra features and stuff. I could care less if i got 2 hours less out of it. Besides, who is going to listen for 12 hours straight anyway?
Also. I use the recorder every other day almost when ... I sometimes tape my class sessions for later review (but dont really use it anyway for studying ) Also. The radio is very nice, Ive had no trouble with it. Id prefer radio over podcast. I never liked iTunes. I dont like bulky software. I would rather just have my Zen Micro driver installed and when you plug the USB cord in it automatically creates a seperate drive in "My Computer" and you can transfer that way. Its fast, quick, and easy. No of the iTunes or other software slowing down the process. Of course there will always be different opinions, but you CANT always choose the lead brand. Its like saying which is better: Ford or Chevy? Its all OPINION Based.

Mainly because people always think iPods are better is the advertisiments. People see that as the only commerical on tv.. and oh I MUST GET IT! But there are several other options. Most of the people dont shop around and get what everyone else has. Not smart if I was to do that.

Edit - One extra CON I would like to add: The standard headphones that come with it are a peice of sh*t ... No offense to creative, but they need to include better headphones. I would recommend buying some better headphones for an extra 15-20$.

Last edited by 73646 on 30 Jul 2005 - 18:21

#27.1 Posted by deron dantzler on 31 Jul 2005 - 03:27

FYI: The iPod mini does have a backlight. And speaking about features, what about the great integration that the iPod has with the iTunes software. I frequently use smart playlists and song ratings to assist in my listening preference. BTW: iPod mini comes in 4GB and 6GB. Stop trying to limit it to just 4GB.

(1 reply) #28 Posted by nic on 30 Jul 2005 - 18:31

I got a slightly used 4 gen ipod 20 GB for the same price. The article is correct about the ipod crashing frequently. I probably have one crash every 2 or 3 days. But it boots back up pretty fast and you are listening to your music again. And I also like the fact that this has a removable battery.

#28.1 Posted by Darkinspiration on 01 Aug 2005 - 02:26

Maybe it's time you update your firmware. If it's still unstable i you should try to hard reset it. You can find some relevant info using google

#29 Posted by MonkeyClaw on 30 Jul 2005 - 18:35

that is one of the most biased reviews i have read. i have never had my ipod crash on me, it has served me great. ive used a micro and my ipod feels more substantial and less prone to breaking considering its construction materials. also it has an interface (controls i mean) that beats the zen micro hands down. im not here to be a stereotypical ipod zelous freak, get what you want after you try one, but this review is a load of bs. just cause one persons ipod crashes on them doesnt make all of them...

(5 replies) #30 Posted by AMD60305 on 30 Jul 2005 - 19:44

This is a very biased review, wether you like the iPod or not, it's very biased. Everything written in the review basically compares it with the iPod, this isn't a review but a comparison. A review should show more of the product being reviewed and less of some other product. I think the word zen is used scarcely more than the word iPod in the review. Even the summary has comparison. Anyone calling this a review needs to look in the dictionary or look at a real review of a product. An actual review might end with some comparison, but not throughout the entire review. If I was interested in buying a zen, I definitely would not use this review as a reason for interest. This review doesn't show any pictures of the actual menus in the device and does not go into further detail that I would be interested in.

#30.1 Posted by betasp on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:32

I agree. I think as a review the article stunk. I also think it was a biased comparison. Yes, I know I am a bit biased, but I bought my ipod from the beginning to listen to my mp3s. That is all, and it is really good at it. I have other gadgets for all the other things.

I will admit I will look at the ZM next, but if it costs a dime more than an ipod, I won't get it because the ipod can do what I need it to do.

#30.2 Posted by no_flame on 30 Jul 2005 - 22:12

Would you consider the article to stink if the output was that the ipod is better ??

And the Zen does not cost a dime more than an ipod. It costs way less.

#30.3 Posted by vacantmind on 30 Jul 2005 - 22:36

30.2

Of course they wouldn't think it sucked if the Ipod was "ranked" better. THey're followers and nothing more. THe zen is such a better product but they enjoy jobs' cock in their mouths so they're blind.

#30.4 Posted by betasp on 31 Jul 2005 - 04:19

That is the ytpe of answer I would expect at a site liek this. Again, I can't really expect true journalism here (or mature members). Can you admit, this is no review? Can you also admit is was a biased comparison? If not, then you are menrely ignorant and I can't blame you for that.


BTW. I have yet to see a Neowin review where they throw a product under the bus. Have you? Not every product is great.

#30.5 Posted by AMD60305 on 31 Jul 2005 - 18:07

to vacantmind and no_flame, Obviously you (both) didn't get the objective of my post. The point of a review is to review for that product. Open any magazine and I guarantee you a review won't compare the product to another product especially throughout the entire review. I actually read through the review for the Zen and I could care less how it was rated or how the iPod was rated. What I care about is that a review is actually a review. This is supposed to be unprofessional journalism, but it's worse than that since it can barely be called journalism.

to vacatmind - you seem to be the sage of MP3 players and the knower of all. Thanks for the naive comment about jobs' cock. Seriously, grow up, there are other opinions out there, you don't have to agree, but at least put some thought into your posts.

#31 Posted by nX07 on 30 Jul 2005 - 20:22

Yay for Zen!!!

I have a black one and a silver one, going to sell one of them though and get th