Microsoft unveils Freeze Dry for Windows Vista

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Windows Vista will include a new technology known as Freeze Dry designed to maintain application states and unsaved documents even when patches are automatically applied and PCs are rebooted. Speaking at the Australian Tech Ed conference on the Gold Coast in Queensland this week, senior product manager Amy Stephan offered a preview of the Freeze Dry technology.

Many IT managers plan to automatically install patches and updates on machines during periods when they are inactive, such as overnight or on weekends. However, as some patches require machines to reboot, users who leave documents open and unsaved run the risk of losing that data if the machine is automatically updated. Freeze Dry eliminates that problem by automatically saving application state and documents and then restoring them once the system restarts, Stephan said.

News source: ZDNet AU

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(3 replies) #1 antaris on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:32

Why has this only just made the news section?

#1.1 Simon on 02 Sep 2005 - 12:24

You have the option of submitting news if we haven't covered a story yet

Anyway, very cool idea

#1.2 bucko on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:36

Because the news poster/admin team have lifes!

#1.3 EduardValencia on 02 Sep 2005 - 19:21

lol bucko,that's freakin right

#2 Lasker on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:32

nices tool!

(11 replies) #3 Fubar on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:34

maybe they should concentrate on not making the pc reboot for updates??? theres an idea , you should only really need to reboot your pc if you get a kernel update , anything else shouldnt really need a reboot , maybe MS should work on that part

#3.1 antaris on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:40

Er...they are already doing that part.

#3.2 MrCobra on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:08

^ I don't know about you but 95% every time I update requires a reboot. IMO, fixing a bug in the HTML rendering DLL should not require a system reboot.

#3.3 coolchan on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:14

it all depends on the software and services you are currently running. restart is the safest way to make sure the files are updated.

#3.4 Fubar on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:24

it shouldnt depend on anything like i said you should only need a reboot if your updating the kernel i found that out when i started to use linux along side windows

#3.5 shao on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:57

this is also something they've said they're working on for vista; the amount of instances where a patch will require a reboot is supposedly being cut by 80-90%.

#3.6 PeterF on 02 Sep 2005 - 12:06

That would give you the false impression that you run patched code.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you patch Apache and don't restart it, you will keep being vulnerable for the hole you think you just patched. The code in-memory can't be just replaced, you couldn't guarantee the state it's in.

So patch and reboot gives me more comfort the problem has been solved.

#3.7 Fubar on 02 Sep 2005 - 12:23

but you can restart apache in the services and there for no need to reboot

#3.8 sphbecker on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:42

QUOTE

It seems like a lot of reboots are caused by lazy programming. For the most part all you need to do is restart services, not the entire computer, but developers don't seem to put a high priority on reducing reboots.

Windows 2003 is already much better at reboots then XP, but they are saying Vista/Longhorn will be even better.

#3.9 eilegz on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:36

agree patches in windows means downtime most of the time have to restart a machine o update something its not good this wont happen on most linux machine anyways except kernel updates m$ should focus on that

#3.10 rIaHc3 on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:50

I hate the restarts that FORCE you to restart ("Your PC will shut down in 4:56. Please save all your work"

I will restart when I want.

Plus it needs to patch the correct files, if they are in use they cant be patched. Ive had to update apps and if I leave them open at the end the setup will require a restart. If i close it then I update it, it doesnt complain about anything.

Its up to the user IMO

#3.11 sphbecker on 02 Sep 2005 - 15:15

Plus it needs to patch the correct files, if they are in use they cant be patched.

That is Windows XP talking. Windows 2003 supports shadow copies, which do a number of things. On, is that they allow hot patching of files. It basically replaces the file, but keeps the old version in memory until it is done being used; any new requests against the file (even if they old one is still it use) use the newer version.

This technology is really meant for web servers, but changes are MS will expand on it in Vista/Longhorn to reduce reboots.

(4 replies) #4 Foub on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:35

Wouldn't this just be a resource hog?

#4.1 Dayon on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:30

Unlikely. Hibernation doesn't 'hog' resources. It probably won't even require an additional service.

#4.2 shao on 02 Sep 2005 - 12:01

i'm sure there will be some resources taken up by this, at least during shutdown / reboot from freeze dry. However, which would you prefer, a small drain on system resources (which are incredibly cheap at the moment), or not patching systems and potentially leaving them open to attack because a user doesn't want their machine rebooted?

of course, the technology has other implications beyond allowing patches to be deployed and systems restarted, which i'm sure microsoft will exploit.

#4.3 sphbecker on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:47

This should much more efferent then hibernation. Hibernation basically copies all RAM to the disk, which takes a very long time on computers with a lot of memory. This idea should use fewer resources because it would only be saving what is needed, not useless disk cashes which don't need to be preserved.

#4.4 Jugalator on 02 Sep 2005 - 18:38

I also think it won't use any resources to speak of during use of the OS, rather just some extra work before shutting down so the states are stored properly. But what do you want, a faster shutdown or a more proper shutdown?

#5 child998 on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:47

I new this was coming, but am happy to see it reported on here. I like the new things this OS will have.

#6 Colin-uk on 02 Sep 2005 - 10:50

nice idea

#7 MrStoo on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:16

Very good idea

#8 DJ Prem on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:18

very cool

#9 David R. on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:38

I've wanted this ever since getting SessionSaver on FF. Nice to see MS adding it. Make me like Vista more.

(4 replies) #10 Sietse on 02 Sep 2005 - 11:57

Quite a nice feature I'd say. I hope the implementation will be as good as the story sounds.

#10.1 PeterF on 02 Sep 2005 - 12:08

Maybe they could have it work as well for the odd blue screen case

#10.2 Equinoctial on 02 Sep 2005 - 12:48

That could be a good possibility for the technology. If vista can save all application states in the background every 10 minutes for example, it would then be able to recover back to how you were before a system crash.

#10.3 sphbecker on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:51

Depending on how low level this feature is it might even be able to save the states as the Blue (well, Red now I guess) Screen is being displayed. Current versions of Windows are able to do a memory dump during Blue Screen, it seems like that dumped memory could be analyzed during startup to retrieve the application states.

The auto-save idea is a really good one, it would save your work if the app you are using crashes (which happens MUCH more then the entire system crashing).

#10.4 Equinoctial on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:16

I suppose that is possible but you would probably also want the ability to maybe pick from a few different previous application states. This would improve the chance of recovery depending on what condition caused the crash, as it could have been something that happened a few minutes before the BSOD/RSOD shows.

#11 Packet1009 on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:01

this is a brilliant idea - saving application state ends up making a reboot almost a non-event

#12 xpgeek on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:22

Thats awsome.

(2 replies) #13 bucko on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:38

I'm sure this is availble in Linux, like when you go to reboot you can save what you were doing. Cept the only difference in Vista is for patches.

#13.1 sphbecker on 02 Sep 2005 - 13:55

Most GUIs for Linux do provide an option to save your session when you reboot, but my experience with it is that there is no grantee that your data will be preserved. For example, it might remember you had your photo software opened and what file you were working on, but it doesn't keep your unsaved changes to the image.

#13.2 _Nirvana_ on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:11

I'm pretty sure Mandriva Linux does that, but then again, why wouldn't you save your image periodically, just in case the computer crashes? If your smart like that, then the session save thing in many Linux OS's is a really good tool.

#14 CubanPete on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:07

I hope they integrate this so administrators can log people off without the worry that they have applications open. I work in IT and alot of my time is spent chasing users trying to get them to unlock or log off their workstation because we dont want to upset them by logging them off when they have a 10mb word document they have spent all day on open and they havent saved it (This happens alot!)

(1 reply) #15 Kalphegor on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:27

hibernate?

or maybe, hibernate + reboot

hibernate it's already in Windows XP

they should invent a quick core restart system, without any need for reboot. they should call this 'recore', reloading the windows vista core.

hibernate + recore will be a better solution

btw: recore was present in Windows 98, pressing Shift+Restart button

#15.1 sphbecker on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:34

Hibernate is very slow, it also does actually restart the computer. If you install something which requires an update and then Hibernate it will still not work.

The Windows 95/98 feature you are talking about was not a recore at all, it basically restarted the Windows GUI without restarting the core OS.

You are correct that MS needs to look at ways to reduce reboots.

#16 Spartan_X on 02 Sep 2005 - 14:45

http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=366493&hl=

#17 Quick Reply on 02 Sep 2005 - 15:44

I suggested this as "Remote Hibernate" to Microsoft for Windows Server/what was known at the time as "Longhorn". Saving Application states to be saved to a server and tthen restored on a different workstation. I'm glad they got a simular idea happening. Maybe they will have "Freeze Dry" to server features.

#18 amrinders87 on 02 Sep 2005 - 17:00

Nice feature.

(2 replies) #19 briangw on 02 Sep 2005 - 17:37

Is this anything like the Deep Freeze program that they use in schools?

#19.1 Jeremy1 on 02 Sep 2005 - 17:45

No. Deep Freeze is used to "freeze" a computer's configuration in place, and bring that same configuration back every time the computer is rebooted. Any changes made during a session are lost with Deep Freeze.

#19.2 loc[a]lhost on 02 Sep 2005 - 21:40

I always wondered how does this work. how come it hardly takes any time? deleting files on a FAT partition actually deletes them and not only their table entries and it takes a lot of time.

(1 reply) #20 Vandil on 02 Sep 2005 - 19:02

I wonder if this will store security elements, such as sessions on open Web pages and AD logins.

Something tells me a PC restoring from Freeze Dry will require a re-login in corporate environments.

#20.1 SiDEBURNS on 02 Sep 2005 - 21:48

This would be most useful in corporate environments, so im sure it will work.

#21 Amnesia on 02 Sep 2005 - 19:23

i wouldn't call it a new technology lol.
Just a new action that rather than just rebooting it saves then reboots.

Am I right?

(2 replies) #22 eilegz on 02 Sep 2005 - 21:20

meaning of windows vista

V irus
I nfections
S pyware
T rojans
A ttacks

#22.1 SquareSoft0 on 02 Sep 2005 - 21:42

Useless response to a useless response'd!

#22.2 PCyr on 04 Sep 2005 - 00:08

This has what to do with the article? You are the textbook definition of a troll.

#23 Gary_Player on 04 Sep 2005 - 01:08

That is a really good idea...my only concern would be security issues...if you are editing a protected document, lock your computer for the night, a patch is installed over night...suddenly you have a backup saved on your harddisk, temporary though it may be, someone could easily find a way to exploite that.

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