PDC 2005: Microsoft gets into the gadget business
Posted by Brad Wardell on 14 September 2005 - 08:59 · 101 comments & 23241 views
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(12 replies)
#1 Posted by Laptop™ on 14 Sep 2005 - 09:12
- "Microsoft Gadgets" is that like http://www.konfabulator.com because if they have thats a total copy, something Microsoft has been doing alot lately.
<snipped> Watch your language.
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#1.2 Posted by Dan C on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:26
- And Apple copied Konfabulator. So why are you picking on Microsoft here? I don't see any differences between DesktopX and Konfabulator. You just need to shut up.
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#1.3 Posted by deepisland on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:38
- Stardocks products are well worth the money. Konfabulator, I mean Yahoo Widgets has nothing on DesktopX.
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#1.4 Posted by shao on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:55
- sorry, but what else have microsoft copied? ultimately you'll see that either
a) the thing you claim they are copied is already a copy of something else
b) microsoft were there first anyway -
#1.5 Posted by coolchan on 14 Sep 2005 - 12:34
- read the damn article!
"The announcement was greeted with jeers from Macintosh advocates who feel that Microsoft is "stealing" the idea from Apple's dashboard while other people say that Dashboard stole its idea from Konfabulator and still others assert that DesktopX preceded them all along with a group that is arguing that desktop accessories from 1984 were the real inspiration." -
#1.6 Posted by Xero on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:03
- I'm sick of people bashing DesktopX and Stardock in general, their programs are by far the best skinning tools on Windows to this date, nothing can do what they can do. Although I do prefer Konfabulator mainly because the artists that create it's widgets seem to be more talented then those for DesktopX, both platforms can do the same if not similar things, although DesktopX can do much more than just Widgets
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#1.7 Posted by aristotle-dude on 14 Sep 2005 - 16:05
- Come on guys. Konfabulator is based on XML and Javascript with a lot of proprietary extensions meaning that you cannot preview in a browser.
It looked to me like these MSFT gadget bear more of a resemblance in terms of technology to Dashboard instead of Konfabulator or Desktop X.
Apparently, MSFT gadgets can be based on HTML/XHTML/DHTML and Javascript which would appear to be closers to Dashboard widgets than either Stardock's product or Konfabulator.
My guess would be that you could preview gadgets in IE similar to how dashboard widgets can be displayed in Safari. -
#1.8 Posted by Daffy_Duck on 14 Sep 2005 - 16:47
- MS may not have stolen the idea of gadgets from Apple but they DID steal the idea of integrating them into the OS from Apple. They are doing a lot of that lately it seems. BTW, I am a longtime MS fan and still only use Windows but lately I've lost a lot of respect for the company...especially after taking a hard look at OSX. BTW, MS needs to hire more/better industrial designers
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#1.9 Posted by threedaysdwn on 14 Sep 2005 - 17:26
- Why is no one mentioning the START.COM Gadgets?
I think those are simply awesome! I think they're planning to put up a new version of Start.com this week to allow you to add them.
The developer page is already up including the Start.com SDK:
http://start.com/developer -
#1.10 Posted by C-Fu on 14 Sep 2005 - 17:58
- If this is indeed true then I bet M$ will introduce another kind of spyware - gadget spyware!
Oh God I've to handle tons of pcs with spyware crap... now this!
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#1.11 Posted by threedaysdwn on 14 Sep 2005 - 18:01
- Didn't Apple's Dashboard already have spyware or at least widgets that could add themselves by tricking the user into clicking a link on a web page?
I know the Gadget team is working hard to make sure their platform is safe and secure. They've put a lot of thought into this and I'm sure they'll get it right. -
#1.12 Posted by brianshapiro on 14 Sep 2005 - 21:02
QUOTE MS may not have stolen the idea of gadgets from Apple but they DID steal the idea of integrating them into the OS from Apple. They are doing a lot of that lately it seems. BTW, I am a longtime MS fan and still only use Windows but lately I've lost a lot of respect for the company...especially after taking a hard look at OSX. BTW, MS needs to hire more/better industrial designers
No they didn't, ActiveDesktop has allowed you to put dhtml/java gadgets on your desktop since Windows 98. You can do that on the version of Windows you're currently running. Of course that implementation was bad, but they were there with the idea that early. Then Microsoft detailed the Longhorn Sidebar, which would have gadgets in the sidebar, before Dashboard was announced as being in Tiger.
The thing is what you're saying is exactly the opposite of what's likely true. Apple used the idea of integrating desktop search, dashboard, and a few other elements in Tiger because of all the hype around Longhorn and what was announced to be in it. Microsoft didn't necessarily invent them either, and its not as if Apple employees didn't think of these things before, but the drive on the market was initiated by Microsoft.
The reason I'm being so persistent in pointing these things out to people, because I think Apple's "Start your photocopiers, Redmond" has been one of the most arrogant and dishonest things I've seen a company do for quite a while, especially since statements like that have come from Steve Jobs, who I don't respect as much anymore.
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#2 Posted by Nissel on 14 Sep 2005 - 09:13
- yet another black microsoft webpage with an informal blog like tone... I LIKE IT!!
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#3 Posted by ziadoz on 14 Sep 2005 - 09:15
- Looks good. I hope there will be an RSS desktop ticker in there, that would be fantastic.
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(1 reply)
#4 Posted by CarlNewton on 14 Sep 2005 - 09:16
- Eugh! Look at that media player gadget! Microsoft really need some better graphics designers. That's always their downfall.
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#4.1 Posted by doorind on 14 Sep 2005 - 18:04
- Actually, I think it looks really nice. the transparent glass look is really well conveyed. MS's problem is that they don't have a theme - they have a bunch of mediocre-to-good artwork that's spread out all over the OS, and they don't have a solid or consistent feel. That's apple's biggest advantage, as far as design.
I personally think apple's success is a matter of having one or two closely working design teams, that are given a lot of creative authority over the look and feel of the products. MS's bad aesthetics wreak of "too many cooks in the kitchen" - too many people (various project managers, people in charge of certain small divisions, this other guy who thinks he's more important than he is) given too much control over look & feel. I'd bet money that apple's designers are much higher on the company totem-pole than the designers are at microsoft.
Last edited by 107710 on 14 Sep 2005 - 18:19
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#5 Posted by Darken on 14 Sep 2005 - 09:28
- Great!!
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#6 Posted by _tux_ on 14 Sep 2005 - 09:37
- go go gadget whatever
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#7 Posted by Syphonic on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:01
- What I want to know is: Is there any point in all these wigets. I don't feel like I'm missing much tbh.
All I would request is that if MS does use them I would like them to implement the dashboard/konfab feature of pressing a shortcut to see the widgets and not having them on screen all the time.
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#8 Posted by NewXStar on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:05
- PDC 2005: Microsoft gets into the gadget business
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#9 Posted by Jon on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:31
- That blog made me grin. They are 'super-excited'. MS people seem to use that phrase a lot. Reminds me of Big-Gay-Al!
I'm sure these comments will deteriorate into Mac phans (sorry, slipping into the super-cool (!) trend of replacing f with ph) banging on about MS copying everything. Deal with it. America has ripped off the UKs innovations for years, because we historically don't support inventors. MS have the power to bring good ideas to the public. It happens, it doesn't really matter as long as globally we move forwards.
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#10 Posted by Chicane-UK on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:31
- Yay for innovation.. and this isn't me supporting Apple cause i'm well aware they stole Dashboard from Konfabulator..
But seriously.. this is what pees me off about Microsoft.. stealing a product which is already developed by one company, and shamelessly stolen and renamed by another?! My god, GET SOME ORIGINAL IDEAS! -
#10.1 Posted by EventHorizon on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:17
- Sounds like you're saying that 'Widgets/gadgets exist with other programs/OSes, therefore widget functionality within Vista should not.'
Just because there are other widget programs out there (like dashboard, konfab and DesktopX) doesnt mean Microsoft cannot develop their own. The concept of 'widgets' is not trademarked to any particular company. Gadgets are neat and useful little proggys, and there is nothing 'wrong' with MS including them in vista; in fact, I think it would be dumb of them not to. -
#10.2 Posted by shao on 14 Sep 2005 - 12:06
- but of course, you've forgotten that it's perfectly okay for certain companies to steal other peoples' ideas (eg, apple), whereas other companies will be burnt at the cross if they do it (microsoft).
alas, you see microsoft pumping far more money in to R&D, and unfortuantely being far more open with their upcoming technologies. Gadgets aren't an example, but microsoft have been publically shafted for talking about some technologies publically before now, and having them quite openly stolen by other companies which got them out of the door first. Apple's spotlight vs microsoft non-msn branded desktop search being a prime example.
to then hear steve jobs mocking ms on stage about the product is particularly annoying as most apple fanatics blindly trust every word that spills from his mouth as gospel, when more often than not, it's not. still, bill has layed the smackdown on steve more than once before now. -
#10.3 Posted by ~*McoreD*~ on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:47
- Seriously it sounds like Chicane-UK is saying that 'Widgets/gadgets exist with other programs/OSes, therefore widget functionality within Vista should not.' That's the most unfair opinion to have.
"Something already exists so something similar cannot be made."
"Unix - an Operating System already exists so no need to make another other one: Mac, Windows."
"C++ - a language is already there, so no need to make another one : VB, Java, C#"
Dont' you think it's a ridiculous opinion to have?
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#10.4 Posted by MaxMonster on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:48
- I agree. We all know how apple fanboys just love to read MS threads.
QUOTE to then hear steve jobs mocking ms on stage about the product is particularly annoying
You won't hear Mr. Gates lowering to this level. They remind me of the french.
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#10.5 Posted by threedaysdwn on 14 Sep 2005 - 15:49
- Umm, the Sidebar with widgets isn't exactly a new thing... It was in some of the earliest Longhorn builds and I believe it's where Desktop Sidebar and Google Desktop got the idea from.
So the only news is that it's been resurrected and will ship in Vista, that the widgets are now called Gadgets, that Start.com has Gadget support, and that Microsoft's Gadget platform no longer requires the Sidebar, but merely uses it as an optional "dock" for them.
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#11 Posted by Jugalator on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:32
QUOTE The announcement was greeted with jeers from Macintosh advocates who feel that Microsoft is "stealing" the idea from Apple's dashboard while other people say that Dashboard stole its idea from Konfabulator and still others assert that DesktopX preceded them all along with a group that is arguing that desktop accessories from 1984 were the real inspiration.
The usual blame game!
I used to be annoyed by these things, but when it goes on like this, I can just laugh.
Yes, Vista will have features in common with other operating systems, but still there are clever changes such as the object oriented command shell, the "show app when hovering task bar", etc. I also consider the sidebar pretty innovative for an OS, but I'm sure someone will complain. :p
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#12 Posted by yayo on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:38
- Looks cheap and tacky.
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#13 Posted by Mathiasdm on 14 Sep 2005 - 10:42
QUOTE The announcement was greeted with jeers from Macintosh advocates who feel that Microsoft is "stealing" the idea from Apple's dashboard while other people say that Dashboard stole its idea from Konfabulator and still others assert that DesktopX preceded them all along with a group that is arguing that desktop accessories from 1984 were the real inspiration.
Well, as Linux user, I must object to this
Linux also has widgets available. Gdesklets, adesklets, superkaramba and others!
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#14 Posted by Cubiz on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:09
QUOTE Have you ever wondered how new technologies get developed in Microsoft? Wonder how a cool idea goes from incubation to release? Well, we’re excited to announce that we’ve started a blog designed to bring you closer to the process with the Gadgets blog and we’re kicking it off at the PDC.
What are Gadgets? Gadgets are a new category of mini-application designed to provide information, useful lookup, or enhance an application or service on your Windows PC or the Web. Examples might include a weather gadget running on your desktop or on your homepage, an RSS Gadget that pulls in your favorite feeds, or an extension of a business application providing just-in-time status on the pulse of your business.
ARGH - it pisses me off how Microsoft make their "ideas" sound like something new and innovative when they are simply catching up with features that have been around for years! Pull your finger out Bill.-
#14.1 Posted by neufuse on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:44
- it's called marketing get use to it, apple does it to... they tired to claim they had fast user switching first a couple years after XP had it
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#14.2 Posted by Cubiz on 14 Sep 2005 - 22:05
- Not true - at WWDC 2003 when Panther was first introduced, Steve Jobs said this:
QUOTE Fast user switching. This is one feature where, I gotta be honest, Windows beat us to this. It's the only feature in Mac OS X that I can think of like that, but this is one. Windows XP has this - we're going to do it much nicer, but they actually beat us to it and we're gonna get there, catch up to them, and do it even nicer.
My point here is that Apple admitted that Windows did this first - they did not claim to have done it first as you can see on the fast user switching page on their website.
Anyway, enough of this - sorry about my rave. I know it's called marketing but when it's something as old as this, "marketing" it as something innovate and new is pathetic (I'm aware of the Dashboard debates, I'm talking here about Konfabulator). -
#14.3 Posted by brianshapiro on 14 Sep 2005 - 22:18
- Cubiz,
When he was introducing Tiger, Steve Jobs pretty much plagarized what you could read off of Longhorn promotion materialls for years bbefore, saying something like "it suddenly hit us that hard drives are growing larger and larger, and yet it was faster to search the web than a harddrive, so we were driven to innovate this new file searching solution in Spotlight" (almost word for word, it was what was written on Microsofts website). Microsoft also detailed Sidebar before Dashboard. I guess its fair game for Steve Jobs to pretend they were innovative when they release the product to market first. Then they put up posters "Start your photocopiers, Microsoft" and act as if Longhorn (Vista) would be copying Tiger. Do you think thats fair Cubiz?
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#14.4 Posted by tRr on 15 Sep 2005 - 01:16
- Cairo was suppose to bring that form of search to its users 10 years ago. Be had it in BFS (I believe Apple hired one if its key developers a couple of years ago to help with Spotlight).
But I am not one that cares who was first or second, I just like computers and playing with new things. Apple is usually far more active in development leaving lots of new stuff to play with, and improving on previous ideas (for instance, with Dashboard actually hiding the widgets in its own layer was the only thing that made it useable to me). On the other hand I feel MS is usually quite reactive with their software. Though, it's obviously working well for them.
The banners are a joke. I believe Steve even mentioned that in the keynote. Whenever he makes a stab he usually starts blabbing about how good a relationship they have, etc. It's for the Mac faithful to laugh at, and probably more importantly, generate buzz. -
#14.5 Posted by brianshapiro on 15 Sep 2005 - 01:34
- tRr,
sometimes Microsoft is reactive, but in most cases (OLE is an example, and now XML, and other technologies) they have been instrumental in pushing the technology in the market, and without Microsoft they wouldn't have been so hig h profile. you could even say that VB development precursored java. Microsoft has worked also have tended to have much more significance from a structural point of view than Apple's technology. for example, OSX's desktop search is just a standard desktop search, Microsoft's planned search has been an object based file system; OSX's display capability improves rendering capability, but Microsoft with XAML is changing the model of program design. Microsoft's point of integrating IE was in adopting HTML as a standard format, while Safari is just a standalone IE. people criticize Microsoft for a lot of these points in saying they're attempts to squash competition and are unnecessary as features, but Microsoft is more pro-active in expanding the development model for third parties and supersetting features, and making them standard.
and I still think Jobs is dishonest about all that stuff, even though he laughs about it at times. a lot of people will believe it, and he knows it, and that will help marketing, and he knows this -
#14.6 Posted by Cubiz on 15 Sep 2005 - 01:51
- Spot on tRr - Apple like having a joke, there's nothing wrong with that.
brianshapiro, I don't know anything about Microsoft's instant search efforts but Apple finished it first and got it into Tiger - like Steve Jobs said; "the other's have been talking about it, we've been doing it". And I don't know what Microsoft had on their website, but Steve said this when he announced Spotlight:
[QUOTE]
We think we are years ahead of Longhorn here, because the other guys have been talking about it: we've been doing it. And we're going to show it to you today, and that is search. [I'll cut out a few things here where he talks about folders]. It's easier to find something from one of a billion websites on the web with Google then it is to find something on your hard drive. So we have to solve this: how do we solve it? We realized we already had solved it - we solved it in iTunes! You can find one song out of thousands or even tens of thousands of songs in a second! [another small snip]. What we had to do was apply this to the entire system, and that's what we have done: the technology we have developed to do that is called Spotlight.
[/QUOTE]
So you can see that Apple didn't really "steal" Microsoft's idea here, they simply took their own solution in iTunes and put it into OS X. Maybe they stole the idea from Cairo, I'm not sure - but they did it first, they did an amazing job with it, and I don't know if the Vista BETA's have instant search in them yet but I haven't seen anything like this from Microsoft.
And again, the Sidebar and Dashboard are two completely different things - the Sidebar is a block on the side of your screen that takes up real estate and seems to have no real purpose (they may have changed in these new BETA's, I don't know) - but Dashboard is a hidden layer that can provide access to virtually any form of information instantly; news, weather, time, RSS, a language translator, a unit converter, the yellow pages, a dictionary, a calculator, notes, the price of petrol in your local area; you name it, Dashboard has it.
Anyway, we are getting WAY off topic here - if you want to continue this conversation, I would be happy to do so via e-mail, IM or PM. -
#14.7 Posted by Cubiz on 15 Sep 2005 - 02:03
- brianshapiro, Spotlight is so much more then a search feature - it is search technology that is built right into the core of Tiger. It's not a program on the top of the OS, it's actually a part of the OS. It's also super powerful - I dunno about Microsoft's search, but Spotlight finds stuff that you could never find with the XP search feature. For example, Spotlight finds text that is in a PDF document - you can create a PDF document with 50000 lines of text and Spotlight will search that text; you can find a sentence, a name, an address, anything at all that is within that PDF. It's much more then just desktop search.
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#14.8 Posted by brianshapiro on 15 Sep 2005 - 02:11
- you can search through PDFs because of plugins, something you can do with other search programs like microsofts. i know its part of the OS, this is also easy to implement in windows since everything is componentized; you would just have to replace the common dialog libraries. its not that significant a technology.
winfs , whenever its released, is a lot more than that just search, but for search, what it allows is for a document's metadata to be self-describing, so you dont need plugins for that, and i dont know how it would manage content, except that microsoft is pushing xml for that also -
#14.9 Posted by Cubiz on 15 Sep 2005 - 02:33
- Spotlgiht also searches in metadata.
I think it's obvious that Spotlight and Microsoft's new search features in Vista are basically the same as each other, and therefore they are both wonderful features. So lets just stop this bloody rave and move on, agreed?
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#15 Posted by pickleman on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:17
- gadgets are useless. All they are are mp3 players, stickies, weather and a few other useless features. I personally never understood gadgets and thier usefulness.
Then again, I hardly ever see my desktop. I always have something else open. -
#15.1 Posted by Jugalator on 14 Sep 2005 - 12:54
- Yes, same here.. Neither gadgets/widgets or a sidebar is exciting me too much.
I just don't feel a need to at every single moment have direct access to some random assorted information. I'm not that obsessed really. -
#15.2 Posted by Ironman273 on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:43
- Well then isn't choice a wonderful thing?
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#16 Posted by neufuse on 14 Sep 2005 - 11:42
- these arnt gadgets or widgets in the sense most people think of them all over their desktop, these are sidebar only things or sideview only (the new hardware ms developed for laptops)
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#17 Posted by shao on 14 Sep 2005 - 12:22
- "a group that is arguing that desktop accessories from 1984 were the real inspiration."
that's funny, because after reading this link the desktop ornaments or accessories sound very much like applets that every os has got, and not like the intelligent widget or gadget or konfab that we see today. Ultimately what you see here is apple users being afraid of ms copying ideas that apple have already copied - not wanting to admit that apple copied them - and thusly acting childish and immature towards someone they dislike. (check the comments here, for proof). it's pathetic really. credit where credit's due, and that credit lies with stardock and konfab. as long as these innovators stay around for years to come then i'll be happy. -
#17.1 Posted by Treefrog on 14 Sep 2005 - 20:37
QUOTE credit where credit's due, and that credit lies with stardock and konfab. as long as these innovators stay around for years to come then i'll be happy.
The problem with that logic is that if MS swallow that market, as it seems they are intent on doing, those innovators will not be around for years to come. They'll be dead.
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#18 Posted by Miran on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:01
- We all need a giant clock in the context menu! Whooo!
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#19 Posted by redwingsmonk on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:02
- WOW! I can't belive how the lot of you are so greedy! if some linux or mac user come in here and make a comment, you guys go ride to flaming them like neowin is for windows users only... but its true MS is copying alot from OSX like the metal tool bar theme in office 12, the minimize and maximize in Vista, the RSS feed in IE7 which actually started with Tiger but hell MS had to have it. It seems alot of you refuse to face the truth but go about browning your noses in microsoft ass and claim Microsoft was there first all along. Its a pity people who say things like that are the ones who have no life outside of computers! When will the OS flame wars end?
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#19.1 Posted by Smigit on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:33
- Your really feeling desperate tonight hey?
Windows XP had a silver Pseudo metalic theme with Windows XP, the office one isn't much more than a variant on that. The interface certainly is not a rip of apples software or shell at all.
RSS feeds are comming into many apps, it's natural progression. Hell firefox had it before Apple did. This along with everything you said isn't originally apples idea, it was stolen by them to if you want to play that whole who stole what game.
seems like you dont want to get your nose out of Apples arse yourself, and pretty much noone here is claiming Microsoft was the first company to implement basically any of these features, infact I see a pretty much overwhelming majority stating that most modern day features have roots spanning back many years.
QUOTE It seems alot of you refuse to face the truth but go about browning your noses in microsoft ass and claim Microsoft was there first all along. Its a pity people who say things like that are the ones who have no life outside of computers! QUOTE When will the OS flame wars end?
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#20 Posted by rpeterclark on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:13
- The naysayers are obsolutely right, only 1 company should be allowed to make gadgets/widgets. In addition, only 1 company should be allowed to make a word-processing application and I'm sick of so many companies making anti-virus software, why can't these people have original ideas?
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#21 Posted by Smigit on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:42
- Seriously who cares who writes what first. Having more companies working on products only pushes the market forward. It's pointless argueing who thought of what first, it doesnt who does what when but who does it better NOW.
I'm also tirred of hearing people say "why dont microsoft innovate". 95% of innovation isnt the creation of new ideas, it's the evolution of under realised already existing ideas. If you think otherwise then you can cease to call the ipod and any of its deriatives innovative, firefox isnt innovative, infact most software of the past decade ceases to be innovative if you are of the belief that the only innovation comes in the form of a 100% from the grounds up new idea. In my oppinion evolution and innovation should go hand in hand.
Besides, how will having one more company making gadget like devices hurt anyone, noones forcing anyone so much as to look at them let alone use them. -
#21.1 Posted by Daffy_Duck on 14 Sep 2005 - 17:02
- Innovation isn't necessarily the creation of features but can also mean the idea to integrate pre-developed features into an existing product. Apple first had the idea of integrating Konfabulator-like widgets into their OS. In a sense, MS is copying Apple's idea of integrating them into Windows. Why didn't Microsoft do this first? It's a company with many more resources than Apple. It's because they are on top in terms of sales so they don't have to spend time coming up with these ideas...they just duplicate them down the road so their users won't feel left out. Apple is more innovative because it has to be.
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#21.2 Posted by mugwhump on 14 Sep 2005 - 17:24
- Which do you think is better though? I mean, yes, Apple might have thought "hey, we have a neat concept, maybe people might like this?" but on the flipside of that, you have Microsoft going "Hey, people seem to like these things...we have the resources to do it right in Windows, should we do it for them?"
I mean...I suppose it depends on how you want to look at it. Are Microsoft supposed to hold back and not put out something that potentially a LOT of people might like just because Apple came out with a similar concept first? Lets be honest here...in the big picture...there aren't a lot of Mac users. There's really not, compared to Windows. Not saying one is better than the other, I'm just stating a fact. And people aren't going to "Switch" just because of Dashboard. So should Microsoft keep a cool concept away from a ton of people just because a minority will view that an idea has been stolen from them? Hell, Microsoft could come right out and say "Here's our new big thing, heavily influenced by a concept first designed by Apple computers." Would that change anything, other than placate some smug egos in that "We had it first, neener-neener". This whole argument seems really childish.
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#22 Posted by Cyranthus on 14 Sep 2005 - 13:56
- *cough* *cough* Desktop Sidebar
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#22.1 Posted by Ghostdraconi on 14 Sep 2005 - 21:49
- You mean that thing based on the Sidebar in Longhorn Alpha
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#23 Posted by Gunbuster on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:01
- This line is a peach:
QUOTE Up till now, the only way to make gadgets on Windows was using Stardock's (which is where my day job is) DesktopX Pro.
The "only" way wow, I'm sure kapsules, konfabulator, samurize or even active desktop might do something similar. -
#23.1 Posted by Frogboy on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:28
- No. Konfabulator, Samurize, Kapsules, etc. make widgets. They aren't stand-alone programs. DesktopX standard also creates widgets. GADGETS are truly stand-alone programs with all the advantages of widgets.
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#23.2 Posted by a^j on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:46
- The term Gadgets used by MS is going to confuse ppl with DX gadgets. MS gadgets are simply widgets. DX gadgets, in the other hand, are DX widgets that get compiled to be stand-alone apps. By saying stand-alone, you don't need DX to make the gadgets work.
I hope this will clear things up a bit -
#23.3 Posted by bangbang023 on 14 Sep 2005 - 15:13
- I don't think they did it to confuse people. It seems as those SD and MS are working together on this.
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#23.4 Posted by Frogboy on 14 Sep 2005 - 19:08
- No AJ,
The difference is that gadgets are self-contained. They don't need a seperate run-time in order to be used.
A Neowin WIDGET would require the user go and download a seperate program to get it to run.
A Neowin GADGET contains all the code need to run on its own. -
#23.5 Posted by mugwhump on 14 Sep 2005 - 19:14
QUOTE It seems as those SD and MS are working together on this.
I really hope not.
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#24 Posted by Laptop™ on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:04
- I knew I was gonna get flamed, but seriously why do we even need widgets and gadgets its just yet another usless features for Vista
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#25 Posted by GwaRGuITaR on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:25
- blah blah blah this place copied that place yadda yadda
who cares? do you work for company x that just had the idea "stolen"? NOPE! you're just the consumer so if you don't like it -- don't use it.
everyone "steals" ideas... that's business. i'm a developer for a company and we borrow ideas from the competition all the time. because it's WHAT THE CONSUMER WANTS!
how many times have any of you complaining gone to some software forum and said "please add feature ___ because software ____ does it" -- yeah, i'm sure you have.
on topic -- good for microsoft. not sure i'd actually use any of it, but i'd be more inclined to without a third party in there.
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#26 Posted by IGx89 on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:39
- So Vista gadgets are compatible with DesktopX gadgets? Very neat .
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#26.1 Posted by threedaysdwn on 14 Sep 2005 - 16:14
- Umm... I suppose that depends on what you mean by "compatible". They aren't the same thing. But you can certainly run them side by side.
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#26.2 Posted by IGx89 on 14 Sep 2005 - 19:21
- Well, why will DesktopGadgets.com "support gadgets created by DesktopX Pro or via Microsoft's tools" if they're not completely compatible with each other? Seems strange that Stardock would list gadgets that only work with a competitor on their own site...
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#27 Posted by a^j on 14 Sep 2005 - 14:49
QUOTE Microsoft's gadgets can be embedded into the recently reincarted Desktop Sidebar which is expected to ship with Windows Vista.
BTW, Frogboy... it's called Windows Sidebar and not Desktop Sidebar. This is Desktop Sidebar LINK
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(2 replies)
#28 Posted by brianshapiro on 14 Sep 2005 - 15:29
- .... remember Windows already supports DHTML gadgets in ActiveDesktop mode .... it was in Windows circa 1998? .... you could download clocks, tickers, and other mini apps .... and wow, look, when you mouse over it it shows the close and menu buttons, just like in Tiger's dashboard .... (this is why I hate people talking about Microsoft 'copying')
Last edited by 8493 on 14 Sep 2005 - 15:45 -
#28.1 Posted by threedaysdwn on 14 Sep 2005 - 16:13
- Some might say that Apple takes our ideas and makes people like them
Google is the latest to try that with their Smart Tag implementation in their toolbar. -
#28.2 Posted by Treefrog on 14 Sep 2005 - 21:14
QUOTE remember Windows already supports DHTML gadgets in ActiveDesktop mode .... it was in Windows circa 1998?
Then again, *nix has had similar standalone and dockable dockapps and gadgets (regardless of what you want to call them) for years before that. Unless this is all about the code it is written with, I fail to see the big deal.
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(7 replies)
#29 Posted by mugwhump on 14 Sep 2005 - 15:46
- 2003 - Microsoft introduces a big weird bar that takes up one side of the screen...doesn't really detail what it does, what it's for, or what will go into it, other than a big clock as some other piddly crap.
2005 - Apple introduce a "feature" into their OS that is shockingly similar to an existing product for their platform (Konfabulator) called "Dashboard". Curiously, it's a big, mostly hidden bar that takes up most of the bottom of the screen that you can fill with widgets. It has a few changes, but it's basically the same thing as Konfabulator. Apple comes out with their snotty "Redmond, Start your photocopiers" campaign.
Mid-2005 - Microsoft comes out and says what the big goofy-looking bar they introduced in 2003 actually is for...and a bunch of Apple fanatics begin their squealing.
Now, it's been argued to death, the whole Konfabulator vs. Dashboard thing. Apple fans will typically side with whatever source of information supports Apple, so as the the actual facts...who knows. daringfireball gets tossed around a bit. Well, a blog is a blog, so whatever. My take on it is this; Apple might have invented the widgets way back when. Good for them. So, 20 years later, they decide to rehash the idea, and Arlos finds out/steals the concept and makes Konfabulator. But this is after DesktopX and all that other associated Stardock cludge is out for Windows (actual stardock products are decent, and I'm using that term liberally...if they could deliver their goods without cludging up my start menu with all that crap or trying to sell me everything else they make every two seconds, maybe I'd consider letting one of their programs be installed somewhere in a 15 mile radius of my systems, until then, no thanks). To my knowledge, Microsoft has never put out any sort of "Widget/Desklet/Gadgets themselves. Then, you can add in Samurize, Kapsules, and all the other bit players...
Now, out of all this mess, we're supposed to determine who copied who? If you want to be childish and pedantic, then everybody remotely involved copied a concept Apple invented back in the stone age. But I argue...widgets today are a tad more advanced than what was out 20 years ago. Just a tad. I like Konfabulator. I actually paid for it for my Macs and have a few purchased copies on my PCs today. No real complaints...and also no real uses. It's just a toy to dink around with so I can look up and see different timezones and make Yoda say some quotes for my son. Real life-changing stuff. Dashboard is much the same in my eyes.
But the largest software manufacturer on the planet is incorporating this concept into their next-generation OS. A company that has versions of their Operating System software on over 90% of all the computers on earth. I could c
Gadgets, like widgets, are mini-applications that typically provide useful information or perform very simple desktop functionality. However, unlike widgets, they do not require a widget enabling program (i.e. such as Konfabulator, DesktopX Standard, Kapsules, etc.). They are stand-alone programs requiring on additional downloads.
Up till now, the only way to make gadgets on Windows was using Stardock's (which is where my day job is) DesktopX Pro. Like DesktopX Pro's gadgets, Microsoft's gadgets can be embedded in other applications. For instance, just as DesktopX Pro gadgets can be put into RightClick and ObjectBar, Microsoft's gadgets can be embedded into the recently reincarted Desktop Sidebar which is expected to ship with Windows Vista.
Microsoft has set up a new site called MicrosoftGadgets.com. The announcement was greeted with jeers from Macintosh advocates who feel that Microsoft is "stealing" the idea from Apple's dashboard while other people say that Dashboard stole its idea from Konfabulator and still others assert that DesktopX preceded them all along with a group that is arguing that desktop accessories from 1984 were the real inspiration.
Regardless of what inspired Microsoft to get into the gadget business, the real winners are consumers and developers who can be assured that there will be ample support for gadget creation in the future.
DesktopGadgets.com, which offically launches next Tuesday is designed to let gadget creators give away or sell their gadgets. It will support gadgets created by DesktopX Pro or via Microsoft's tools.
This story is still developing. Stay tuned..
Windows Vista Starter Edition
- Only sold in emerging markets
- Very feature limited
- Only 3 simultaneous applications running
Windows Vista Home Basic Edition- Equivalent to XP Home
- Includes firewall, parental controls, Security Center, Movie Maker, Photo Library and more
- For first time buyer / budget conscious
Windows Vista Home Premium Edition- Everything from Vista Home Basic
- Adds DVD video authoring, HDTV support, DVD ripping support
- Similar to current XP Media Center edition but with added features
Windows Vista Professional Edition- Aimed at the business consumer
- Can join domain, has IIS web server
- Akin to XP Pro
Windows Vista Small Business Edition- Designed for small businesses without IT staff
- Backup and Shadow Copy support, Castle and server-join networking, and PC fax and scanning utility
- Pre-paid access to the Windows Live! Small Business or Microsoft Office Live! subscription services
Windows Vista Enterprise Edition- Optimized for the enterprise
- Ships with Virtual PC & the multi-language user interface (MUI)
- Aimed at business decision makers, IT managers and decision makers, and information workers/general business users.
Windows Vista Ultimate Edition