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(5 replies) #1 Posted by JZolloXP on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:24

What will happen as a result of this daring move by Opera?

Dum Dum Dum!

Find out on the next all exciting episode of The Browser Wars

#1.1 Posted by tapo on 20 Sep 2005 - 11:25

I actually see this as a bad thing.

Not that I don't like Opera, it's a good browser, and I'm posting this from 8.0 since I've been too lazy to upgrade. But last I checked, Opera reports it's UserAgent string as MSIE 6 by default.

Unless this is changed, Opera could undo the marketshare numbers that Firefox and other non-ie browsers fought so hard for.

But that's just my opinion.

#1.2 Posted by d3bruts1d on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:11

Opera change the agent string in 8.10 Preview 2 to identify as Opera by default. For whatever reason 8.50 reverts back to the identify as IE. :/

#1.3 Posted by rseiler on 20 Sep 2005 - 17:19

They're waiting until the seriously revamped v9 to do that, "Merlin," which overhauls the rendering engine and adds rich-text, among many other things.

#1.4 Posted by skinnyjm on 21 Sep 2005 - 00:21

Just go to:
Tools>Preferences>Advanced>Network, and change "Browser Identification" to "Identify as Opera".

#1.5 Posted by tapo on 21 Sep 2005 - 04:48

skinnyjm: That wasn't the issue. I already have my copy of Opera set to identify as Opera, but most users don't and don't know (or care) about the setting. Everyone who downloads Opera 8.50 will unknowingly increase the percieved marketshare of MSIE 6.

rseiler: Thanks for clearing that up, hopefully they'll come out with Opera 9 soon.

#2 Posted by Mando on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:27

This is a good move by Opera.

I like the opera browser a lot and now even more reason to like it now the stupid ad banner has gone.

Way to go Opera Software

Thank god i wasnt daft about it enough to actually pay for it!

(7 replies) #3 Posted by Colin-uk on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:27

Wow... i cant see the paying users being very happy...

#3.1 Posted by wutang01 on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:29

True that! lol ...

#3.2 Posted by Toxicfume on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:20

Opera has given an option to customers who paid in the last 30 days to get a refund if they wish to get their money back. However, they will not get premium support. People who paid will get premium support till Opera 9.

#3.3 Posted by capeche on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:22

I paid for Audiograbber when it cost money--now it's free. I can't say I mind that much, though!

#3.4 Posted by Jugalator on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:06

QUOTE

Opera has given an option to customers who paid in the last 30 days to get a refund if they wish to get their money back. However, they will not get premium support. People who paid will get premium support till Opera 9.

That's a nice initiative and ought to please them.

#3.5 Posted by Yvo on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:32

Winamp at one point costed money (it does again but there are free versions available) and I paid for it about 7 days before it went free back in 98/99.

#3.6 Posted by krono6 on 20 Sep 2005 - 18:10

Funny thing... Try installing the free version, then download the pro "Upgrade" file from the website... I'm not sure if they fixed this yet or not

#3.7 Posted by laz on 20 Sep 2005 - 21:47

krono6, where on the website is the "Upgrade" file?

(4 replies) #4 Posted by Starcom826 on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:29

Although I like the move personally, I question the health of the decision. Microsoft can afford to offer some of its software for free due to its extortion elsewhere. The people developing firefox really don't work for money. Opera on the other hand is a commercial enterprise. Unless they have something pretty special for revenues up their sleeve...

#4.1 Posted by M2Ys4U on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:58

The Mozilla Corperation/Foundation pay their employees...

#4.2 Posted by Smigit on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:05

Firefox has quite a huge operating budget. I mean they don't get money from software sales but they have many corporate backers plus donations plus the millions AOL threw into them. They also produce things for other companies under contracts (ie a browser is in progress for Nokia). Lastly they recently opened up a non non-profit division so they can make money through that.

They do make alot of money and Opera will continue to also through their corporate relations, support, mobile technologies and code licensing ect.

#4.3 Posted by jp10558 on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:30

I too think it's a bad move. The were making money hand over fist before, I can't really see why they changed it. This idea of marketshare at all costs.. what does that really do for a company?

While marketshare is important, it's not directly related to being a successful enterprise. Opera managed to be profitable, and very profitable, for 10 years with a marketshare around 1%.

My local family run grocery has been doing fine forever even though it's not in other towns or a chain. I think it's actually hurtful to the economy to think that every player in a market has to strive for 100% of the market, and is a failure if they don't achieve huge marketshare. Why is it wrong to be a profitable business serving happy customers, even if it's only 1/100 of 1% of the total possible market?

#4.4 Posted by rseiler on 20 Sep 2005 - 17:21

The financial logic is explained here:
http://www.newsweb.no/index.asp?melding_ID=113673

#5 Posted by GibsonSt19 on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:30

I'm a paying user, and you're not wrong there!

#6 Posted by Lys on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:31

From the IRC channel it seems that people in the last 30 days can get a refund, and people who paid early get the premium support thing.

(1 reply) #7 Posted by Deathray on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:34

Wasn't the rendering engine supposedly going to be incredibly enhanced... What happened to that, got to wait until version 9.0?

#7.1 Posted by [X]-bYtE on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:37

Seems so yes.

(1 reply) #8 Posted by dotrock on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:36

Opera browser free for mobile too??? I tried dwlding but it went to YOU DONT HAVE PERMISSION SECTION!

#8.1 Posted by lare2 on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:37

Not free for the mobile one

(1 reply) #9 Posted by nquinnathome1 on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:40

I think it's only the desktop-based Opera that's free; I expect the plan for Opera is to make money out of Opera on mobile devices instead, they seem to be focusing on that area more and more now.

#9.1 Posted by dotrock on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:41

hmm,, Gr8..

(1 reply) #10 Posted by Shining Arcanine on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:41

I wonder how they're going to make money after doing this. Many of their users might not pay for premium support.

#10.1 Posted by jp10558 on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:31

I think the reason they f**ked up their user forums so much was to push people to premium support, cause you used to be able to get all the support you needed via the forums, now they are painful to use...

#11 Posted by Corona on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:54

20th anniversary ? I thought it was 10th anniversary? typo ?

(4 replies) #12 Posted by Toxicfume on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:56

May well be a start of the biggest chapter in the browser era.

Wonder what Asa has to say about this in response to what he said in his last blog about Opera being 1/365th as free as Firefox.

Last edited by 13 on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:02

#12.1 Posted by imtoomuch on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:57

QUOTE

opera being 1/365th as free as Opera

Huh?

Anyway, I think Opera finally realized this is what they needed to do to really be competitive with IE and Firefox.

#12.2 Posted by Toxicfume on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:03

Oops, corrected

#12.3 Posted by d3bruts1d on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:22

QUOTE

Wonder what Asa has to say about this...

Good god... I cannot wait to read his blog today. That should be rather interesting to say the least.

#12.4 Posted by Toxicfume on 21 Sep 2005 - 03:30

And he speaks: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/archives/2005/09/opera_continues.html

Tell me you're not surprised of the tone in his title. He is one reason many people who genuinely like firefox switch to opera, I know this for a fact.

(9 replies) #13 Posted by mauro on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:57

Tried it, but uninstalled it a few minutes later, I can't browse without FF's Adblock extension

#13.1 Posted by carpediem on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:58

There are lots of free alternatives that are much more advanced than adblock. Proxo, Privoxy, etc.

#13.2 Posted by Metshrine on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:10

Or, if you are willing to pay money (GASP) for a program that is superior to ANY ad blocker out there, you could use ad muncher at www.admuncher.com AS IT IS NOT BROWSER SPECIFIC and it is continuously updated and has a server supplied list that is VERY VERY VERY ACCURATE. Plus it works for ALL http enabled ad gathering apps (such as aim, and the older versions of opera (removing its banner ad), and several other applications)

Last edited by 37802 on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:51

#13.3 Posted by Danny Weed on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:13

Google 'Opera adblock CSS'

Not very advanced, but it works

#13.4 Posted by sybs on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:27

Opera has the same adblocking capabilities as Firefox with the adblock plugin. It's very easy to activate. See my post on the Opera forum:

http://my.opera.com/community/forums/findp...t.pl?id=1088845

#13.5 Posted by Jugalator on 20 Sep 2005 - 11:29

Unfortunately, filter.ini isn't nearly as powerful as Adblock (no wildcards), so if you need that power, you're still best of looking for third party addons.

#13.6 Posted by f45 on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:29

I can't stop wonder why ppl insist on the wrong assertion that Opera doesn't have ad-blocking capabilities?! If you don't know it doesn't mean that it's not available.

#13.7 Posted by Metshrine on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:01

Its available, but tell me, how many home users want to search through and edit an ini file just to block ads when there are perfectly good commercial solutions that work across every major browser (not just opera, not just firefox, not just ie). I dont think my father is going to want to have to switch from a program he paid $20 for that blocks 99.9% of ads to having to do it manually. Call me crazy

#13.8 Posted by betasp on 20 Sep 2005 - 14:14

I prefer that sites like Neowin be able to provide me good content for free by having advertisements and on occasion, clicking on them. I don't want to drive more sites to being fee based because everyone starts blocking ads.

#13.9 Posted by Yogurth on 20 Sep 2005 - 14:35

You don't need to edit filter.ini file manually, this little util does it for You and updates ad.site.com's from web http://www.operaadfilter.com/ .

http://www.operaadfilter.com/

#14 Posted by Neobond on 20 Sep 2005 - 08:58

I'm using it now and I really like it.

#15 Posted by Bryan000 on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:00

I hope Opera can pull this off and still be a successful company. Thanks Opera. Love your browser. I still prefer Firefox, but you are making great gains ^__^

(1 reply) #16 Posted by Hani on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:01

Uninstalled FF Installed Opera. I've always been a fan of Opera. Nice move Opera!!

#16.1 Posted by cork1958 on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:03

I wonder how many other Firefox fanboys will do the same now? They all KNOW Opera is way better!!

#17 Posted by Timmah on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:04

Time to try Opera!

(1 reply) #18 Posted by insanekiwi on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:05

heck ,even as opera gave away free codes i still hated the browser layout and usability
this won't be any better then.

#18.1 Posted by mr.roberts on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:20

You don't need free codes. Opera is now absolutely free just like Firefox and IE is. No codes or enter. Just install and you done. But yeah, your opinion if you don't like it.

Anyway. It's wonderful of them to fulfil my dream. I knew they would do this one day.

(1 reply) #19 Posted by carpediem on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:20

Here's some information how to get the tab bar under the address bar (most people seem to prefer that)

http://nontroppo.org/-/media/mainbar.htm

Last edited by 3488 on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:28

#19.1 Posted by Neobond on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:24

Thanks for that man, I did this and bookmarked it.

(1 reply) #20 Posted by Norante on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:21

I know all the virtues of Opera, but I can't stand the interface...

#20.1 Posted by Jugalator on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:03

It supports both Windows native and themed rendering, and is uncluttered especially without the ads.

It's also heavily customizable.

What do you think is wrong with it?

(1 reply) #21 Posted by Neobond on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:24

I downloaded this and really like it

#21.1 Posted by skinnyjm on 21 Sep 2005 - 01:10

You must!
When was the last time you posted three times on a front page news item without having to "warn/remind/correct" anyone?

#22 Posted by NewXStar on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:26

# Yes Fine work Now Opera --------- For Freee

#23 Posted by carpediem on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:29

Very nice to see all the positive feedback. Now if anyone could write greasemonkey for Opera too, and things would be peachy!

If you didn't know, opera can run custom javascript before page is fully loaded, or after. All done with the "userScripts" function.

more information here: http://people.opera.com/rijk/opera/userjs.html

more:
http://people.opera.com/rijk/opera/userjs-...collection.html

(2 replies) #24 Posted by williamhook on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:39

Downloaded it. Haven't installed it. I will only use it sometimes, unless I like it more then Firefox. Still, why did we have to pay for it in the first place??? LOL

#24.1 Posted by YtseJam on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:48

Because unlike Firefox, which is open source or IE that is bundled with your OS (which you either pay for, including for the browser, or just warez it, Opera is a small company that needs income and that income came from the desktop market and the mobile market (and advertising and etc).

A lots of users have supported Opera, which resulted in this, free Opera.
BTW, this was said by the CEO, as quoted in the news post. sigh.

#24.2 Posted by Jugalator on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:01

QUOTE

Still, why did we have to pay for it in the first place???

To support their developer team. Apparently, they're looking elsewhere for that now.

#25 Posted by Rabbai on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:59

Excellent move by Opera! Hopefully their userbase will grow as a result of this!

(3 replies) #26 Posted by carpediem on 20 Sep 2005 - 09:59

Install this userScript and goto Asa Dotzlers blog for a laugh

the custom User Script for opera (found on this page)

http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/operaStuff/us...rafyasa.user.js
Asa's site
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/asa/

#26.1 Posted by Jugalator on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:01

lol

#26.2 Posted by d3bruts1d on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:25

Now, that is a useful UserJS!

#26.3 Posted by rm20010 on 20 Sep 2005 - 14:50

LMAO! Expect another blog about that soon.

#27 Posted by Jugalator on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:00

ZOMG!!1

So, their revenue is coming from... what, now? Hmm, I recall they're trying to move into the mobile / smart phone market, so maybe that's where they're heading as for revenue? They look to have pretty strong products there already, and far ahead of e.g. Mozilla and Minimo.

Anyway, this is certainly a nice deal for a browser with less known open security holes than Firefox.

#28 Posted by REM2000 on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:20

cool news, looks like the presure's really on, with the browsers, which is about time too.

(5 replies) #29 Posted by Beastage on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:30

Tell you exactly what it means, Google are buying Opera = say hello to The Google browser

#29.1 Posted by Rabbai on 20 Sep 2005 - 10:38

That would be awesome =)

#29.2 Posted by Kalphegor on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:49

That will be the best move for Google against Internet Explorer and Microsoft.

But Google is trying to make everything works with Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox, not with Opera.

But maybe, version 9 will be called Google Opera 9.

#29.3 Posted by jp10558 on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:35

That would be the worst thing to happen ever. I'd pretty much have to switch to another browser - maybe IE as FF seems just as happy to spy for google

#29.4 Posted by rseiler on 20 Sep 2005 - 17:34

Worst move? Try best move. Opera would gain marketshare by leaps and bound with Google's brand and distribution behind it, and guess what, Webmasters would suddenly be inclined to support it everywhere.

#29.5 Posted by worbd on 21 Sep 2005 - 15:03

Opera will not be bought.

The company still has the stock majority itself, and the CEO has stated that they refuse to sell the company. So... Nope!

#30 Posted by i like chips on 20 Sep 2005 - 11:07

Wow this thing's come a long way since I last tried it. Which was years ago. I'm gonna try it out for a few days

#31 Posted by shihchiun on 20 Sep 2005 - 11:16

Great, I spent all that time refreshing to get the free code, and now it's free for everyone..

#32 Posted by Packet1009 on 20 Sep 2005 - 11:49

this is quite amazing, really.
i do wonder what made them shift to this free model. but then i'm also glad to just use the browser and be happy with it, without any evangelism

#33 Posted by ViperSnake on 20 Sep 2005 - 11:56

Oh my, the browser wars have finally heated up! All 3 of the big 3 browsers are now free, how will this effect Firefox?

(5 replies) #34 Posted by Yvo on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:33

Biggest quirk about this browser is that it doesn't follow what has sort of become the unwritten code of standard browser shortcuts. Ctrl + T for example for a new tab, under Opera its by default (yes I bet it can be changed, but speaking by default) is save as a new favorite.

#34.1 Posted by Galley on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:23

Ctrl+N opens a new page, (or tab).

#34.2 Posted by fobban on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:56

Or even better, use mouse gestures and just hold down the right mouse button and drag the mouse down a bit.
Mouse gestures ftw.

#34.3 Posted by GreenMartian on 20 Sep 2005 - 14:13

QUOTE

it doesn't follow what has sort of become the unwritten code of standard browser shortcuts

I've been using Opera since waay before FF came around - and for me, the "standard browser shortcut" for new tabs was Ctrl+N. And new windows, at least in newer versions, is Ctrl+Alt+N (I don't use this very much, as opera's tab-handling is far superior than FF).

On the other hand, I still dont see their rationale for using Ctrl-T as "add to bookmarks" though.....

#34.4 Posted by rm20010 on 20 Sep 2005 - 14:54

If by 'standards' you mean CTRL+N for a new tab... I'd question that. Safari uses apple+T for a new tab, not apple+N.

#34.5 Posted by Packet1009 on 20 Sep 2005 - 18:36

you can change/create your own keyboard shortcuts.
opera allows that -> tools -> preferences -> advanced -> shortcuts
if you dont want to do it yourself, you can just apply this keyboard map off the opera site, to get your Ctrl T functionality:
http://portal.opera.com/startup/customize/

offtopic: i'm disturbed by the lack of attempting to explore in a new environment.

#35 Posted by rIaHc3 on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:39

Well I just hope this is a good move financially.....

#36 Posted by LTD on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:45

Good for Opera. Although Opera usage is still miniscule compared to IE and FF.

#37 Posted by f45 on 20 Sep 2005 - 12:46

Wow, great move! It was about time.

Now more users will enjoy this really good browser

#38 Posted by MNS on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:01

love Opera.

best browser on Earth.

this just makes it better.

#39 Posted by ShiFtedReaLity on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:16

ive been using opera since version 6... and its really good... im glad its free.. now i dont hafta borrow a code from my friend lol jk... but anywayz its the only browser i use... didnt really care for firefox (and yes i have tried it) and for all the people that complain about the layout... u can change alomst everything around in the browser just a mater of knowing where to find it Opera is the best

Last edited by 21407 on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:25

(2 replies) #40 Posted by doubledragonxz on 20 Sep 2005 - 13:21

great news, not sure what are they going to do to get the money, but this definatelly will increase their user base. I bet they are relying on the fact that opera IMHO is better with memory than FF and it has similar features.

#40.1 Posted by betasp on 20 Sep 2005 - 14:20

Opera profits from the licensing of their mobile browser technology....yes they actually PROFIT.

#40.2 Posted by worbd on 21 Sep 2005 - 15:04

They'll make even more money now:

http://my.opera.com/haavard/blog/show.dml/22892

#41 Posted by sin™ on 20 Sep 2005 - 17:19

What a knockout blow to most FF fanboys that love spitting out their first responces as to why FF is better than Opera... "It's Free!" Gonna have to come up with something else now.

#42 Posted by fdlazarte on 20 Sep 2005 - 18:03

nice!

(1 reply) #43 Posted by CrisCr0ss on 20 Sep 2005 - 19:38

Man that must really suck for all those people who bought it. I Don't understand why you would pay for a browser in the first place. No matter how good it was it still does what anyother browser does and that is surf the net.

QUOTE

The good feeling that they helped opera reach the point that it could go free

Lol personally i would be pissed off, i'd feel ripped off paying 40$ for something which imo should have been free in the first place. Ya Ya ya firefox and AOL and opera started small but Opera didnt have to start as an enterprise it could have went Open Source like Firefox or various other Open source browsers instead they chose not to...

And I use both FireFox and Opera enjoy both FireFox a little more because of its adblock and various extensions which Opera does not have. But I must admit the UI works much easier in FireFox than that of Opera, For me the search bars do not work even after countless reinstall n formats.

Either way I use FireFox and Opera just depends on which icon i see first.

I just hope no we can stop getting fanboys from either side to stop comparing the two.. because no ones gives a rats ass about which browser you use.

#43.1 Posted by worbd on 21 Sep 2005 - 15:05

QUOTE

Lol personally i would be pissed off, i'd feel ripped off paying 40$ for something which imo should have been free in the first place.

If you are daft enough to pay for something you don't want to pay for... Well what, can I say? You have no right to feel ripped off. All you can do is to f