EC Reviews new Complaints Against Microsoft
Posted by malebolgia on 21 September 2005 - 20:04 · 55 comments & 6467 views
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#1 Posted by Gowcra on 21 Sep 2005 - 22:43
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ach well, it bound to happen to ms being so big and all?
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(7 replies)
#2 Posted by flyakite19 on 21 Sep 2005 - 22:52
- How come no one complains about Apple bundling programs? iTunes, iMovie, DVD Player, iPhoto, iSync, and all that other stuff. I have yet to see one story about a complaint to the EC about Apple. I love MS and Apple equally, but why in the hell is it always Microsoft who gets complaints for bundling applications?
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#2.1 Posted by username(); on 21 Sep 2005 - 22:54
- Beacuse Microsoft has the cash to settle almost anything. Its free money for a country to sue them.
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#2.2 Posted by markjensen on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:18
- More accurately, because Microsoft has a history of (and has been convicted of) abusing their near-monopoly in the OS area to illegally influence other markets to favor their own offerings.
But this has been covered ad-nausium, and those who are polarized to one side or another will not be swayed, yadda, yadda, yadda...
As for me, I could care less. The EU had a swipe at them already. Should be enough, I would think, so why do this? -
#2.3 Posted by theyarecomingforyou on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:08
QUOTE The EU had a swipe at them already. Should be enough, I would think, so why do this?
Either because they missed something that should have been punished or something new has come up - either way the EU should review it and then determine its validity. As corrupt as the EU I think this is above board and reasonable because if Microsoft is abusing their powers it is the consumers that lose out.-
#2.4 Posted by Darkinspiration on 22 Sep 2005 - 03:26
- Might i add: You can uninstall the apple provided programs. Since they are all part of ilife a seperate suite. You can't uninstall IE nor WMP. You can uninstall safari (aldo .... it's probably a bad idea) And you can uninstall quicktime.
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#2.6 Posted by mr_demilord on 22 Sep 2005 - 10:30
- Try it and look in the wmp folder wich those files you cannot delete becos windows restores the files, you cannot completly remove wmp becos it is intergrated in the OS, same goes for internet explorer.
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#2.7 Posted by shao on 22 Sep 2005 - 12:14
- WMP has already been unbundled, and if you don't want it you can buy a version of windows without WMP.
QUOTE More accurately, because Microsoft has a history of (and has been convicted of) abusing their near-monopoly in the OS area to illegally influence other markets to favor their own offerings.
the issue with WMP really stems from the fact that it ties into microsoft powered and licensed technology online media stores. In that respect it is exactly the same as apple bundling itunes with mac os.
bundling their technologies to further promote more of their technology and markets.
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(1 reply)
#3 Posted by Deathray on 21 Sep 2005 - 22:56
- This is seriously getting annoying. It's simply getting ridiculous, it's always Microsoft that gets targetted...
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#3.1 Posted by cheesegoduk on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:11
- uh huh - So people that commit crimes again and again are just being "Targeted" and its "annoying"
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(1 reply)
#4 Posted by BBinder on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:17
- how do you make a complaint to the EC i'll happily bring up Apple bundling software
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#5 Posted by Aaronz0rz on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:19
- this is stupid
ms should just ship viruses with they euro versions of their OS and screw them up
are they that greedy that they gotta rip off MS -
#5.1 Posted by flyakite19 on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:24
- While it would never happen, it would be funny if Microsoft just stopped selling products in Europe. Make them find an alternative. Basically a big "Fine, screw you" to the EU. Use OS X or Linux you *******s.
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#5.2 Posted by AJCrowley Esq on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:48
- Although I seriously doubt that this is your intention, this move, while it would upset some people, would be extremely good for the market in general. Maybe then we'd start seeing some developers offering decent *nix support.
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#5.3 Posted by cheesegoduk on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:12
- hahah MS would never pull out of Europe - A market that gives them almost as much(if not more) profit as the USA does. Microsofts share price would fall through the floor if they even scaled back in Europe. Fact is they can afford to pay the fines and STILL make a large profit.
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(1 reply)
#6 Posted by SkyyPunk on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:28
- i never have understood this...apple bundles just as much, if not more, into their OS, dont they? no ones complains about them...you buy a machine with Windows...you buy it with all that comes with windows...dont like it? dont buy it...i dont get what the deal is
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#6.1 Posted by Colonel_Angus on 22 Sep 2005 - 00:23
- Microsoft is in trouble because they forbode OEMs from installing alternative browsers and media players on PCs with Windows pre-installed.
Apple doesn't sell their OS to OEMs. Therefore they can not be guilty of the same crimes MS has.
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(3 replies)
#7 Posted by Noveed on 21 Sep 2005 - 23:57
- Poor M$ .... greey EU... honestly the EU is startng to take the P!$$.... the OS belongs to M$ if is upto them to decide if they want to bundle a media player with it or not... honestly the EU sucks... before anyone goes to flame im from the UK
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#7.1 Posted by Jugalator on 22 Sep 2005 - 00:22
- What part of reviewing complaints don't you understand?
EU isn't doing a thing to MS, they are reviewing some filed complaints. -
#7.2 Posted by LaNcom on 22 Sep 2005 - 02:10
- Okay Noveed, in case you don't understand this game, I'll try to explain:
Let's say you own a bar. I'll visit your bar some day. You didn't invite or anything, the door was open and I got in. I go to your kitchen, smoke a cigar and piss in the kitchen sink, because I'm used to do this at my home. Is this OK by your book?
With Microsoft in the EU, it's pretty much the same. Nobody invited them to do business in the EU, but it's OK if they do their business here if they follow our rules. And even if Windows is their product, and even if they are free to bundle everything and the kitchen sink everywhere else in the world, they are _not_ following _our_ rules right now. Therefore, they have two options: comply with our rules, pay the fine, continue to do business here and everything will be fine and dandy. Either that or just f*ck off and do business elsewhere!
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#7.3 Posted by AJCrowley Esq on 22 Sep 2005 - 11:21
- I'd prefer the latter, no matter how unlikely.
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(7 replies)
#8 Posted by willvg on 22 Sep 2005 - 00:22
- So you dont want Media Player you got it Now What You dont want something else, WELL DONT FREAKIN USE IT OR UNINSTALL IT. Common is it that hard to not use or unistall some of the stuff bundled with windows. I mean If I install OS X it is bundled with Itunes, Quicktime. They just want money from MS
Someone start a petition are something that we can send to the EU
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#8.3 Posted by Jugalator on 22 Sep 2005 - 00:30
- What??
The EU hasn't said they now don't want "something else".
They're just reviewing some complaints.
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#8.4 Posted by LaNcom on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:58
- It seems to be really hard to understand what Microsoft has to do to comply. WMP and IE are pretty minor complaints, the EU wants Microsoft to open their specifications, royalty-free and open-source compatible. That's the main problem, that's what MS tries to prevent - a company using closed specs to protect their monopoly violates EU antitrust laws...
If Microsoft doesn't want to comply, they are free to stop doing business here! -
#8.5 Posted by shao on 22 Sep 2005 - 12:20
- as a european there's two things that annoy me about these kind of news items
- racist americans slating an entire continent off
- people saying microsoft should do one thing, but that that one thing doesn't apply to anyone else
the whole point of anti-monopolistic rules and regulations are to promote fair play, and rules that apply to everyone - yet what we're seeing is one company being targetted and used as a scapegoat. The irony of the situation is it's probably Real, Oracle, Apple or Sun behind the complaints -
#8.6 Posted by Treefrog on 22 Sep 2005 - 13:44
QUOTE Reply by LaNcom on 21 Sep 2005 - 20:58
the EU wants Microsoft to open their specifications, royalty-free and open-source compatible. That's the main problem, that's what MS tries to prevent - a company using closed specs to protect their monopoly violates EU antitrust laws...
*bing bing bing*... We have a winner!
Refreshing to see that someone else actually knows what's going on instead of the usual uninformed misconceptions (IE.. no.. WMP.. no.. Why don't they target Apple.. etc) being flung around like mad.-
#8.7 Posted by Inter_User on 26 Sep 2005 - 02:42
- shao I don't believe that you are that ignorant but "racist Americans"??? Do you even know what racist mean??? Racist is someone that "puts down" other (not its own) races. How that fits this conversation??? As a native person I can tell you about racism and racist europeans in the past and in the present on all continents so don't get me started. Don't generalize because then you should be talking about europeans too (if not mostly), their racism and how their “slate” entire continents. But this is not the subject of this conversation.
This is about MS and EC. I don't think that MS did anything wrong by adding all those extras to their OS. Personally I prefer a clean OS without anything. But people that say that you don't have to use them or you can uninstall them are right. You can uninstall them (those extras) using program called XPLite (I think it's a German software). I used it to "clean" XP on my system and it's a great software. Some of them you can remove manually (google it on the net to see how). If I can do it so can you. Also, just think about it, if you would create an OS why would you tell everybody how you did it? So everyone could copy you, steal from you without paying or giving you any credit for your hard work??? I don't think that you would like it at all. It is their creation and if they don't want to share the source or whatever they should be free to do so. Plus, that just make (or should make) everyone to try to create something better and that is good for competition. If you want someone to open their source so you can have a look into it to make your own product... well... that makes you lazy, incompetent and thief or all of those. If open-source would be used only to make sure that there is full compatibility between programs that would be great and every software should be open-source. But unfortunately that’s not the case. And then there are people that can't afford to buy other or better software so at least they can use the one that came with an OS. So all these stuff with EU and MS is getting pretty old and EU should just shut the heck up. And for the record I do understand that EC is just looking into the accusations in this case but these are just my thoughts in respond to some comments I read here.
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(1 reply)
#9 Posted by theyarecomingforyou on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:14
- Wow... everytime the EU and Microsoft popup you always have people leaping in saying that Microsoft should pull out of Europe, or infect users with viruses, or saying how Microsoft should be able to do what they want or asking why Apple isn't scrutinised. Can't we just put it all in one of the topics and get it out of out of our system?
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#9.1 Posted by Treefrog on 22 Sep 2005 - 13:57
- Ooooh, ooooh, pick me, pick me, I know this one!
Pull out of Europe.. yeah, when they want to lose more than half their user base and revenues they are more than welcome hehe.
Infect users with viruses.. yeah, that's like, not *quite* legal. When they want to lose ALL their user base and revenues they can do that.
Microsoft can do what they want.. well, sure they can, within the bounds of the laws of the countries they do business in... though they like to see how far they can push it, and that kinda ticks people off.. just a wee tad.
Why Apple isn't scrutinized.. well, maybe that's because Apple hasn't done the same thing MS have, not to mention they don't have the market share, and thus the same potential power over the vast majority of users to abuse that market share (not to mention the absolute vigor and desire to do so that has been demonstrated by MS).
Yeah, I know you knew all of this already, but the coffee has given me itchy typing fingers
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(6 replies)
#10 Posted by cheesegoduk on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:15
QUOTE WELL DONT FREAKIN USE IT OR UNINSTALL IT
Pretty hard when theres no uninstaller or removing it will break the OS-
#10.1 Posted by willvg on 22 Sep 2005 - 01:17
- yes for media player go to Add/Remove windows components
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#10.2 Posted by CaKeY on 22 Sep 2005 - 02:19
- All that does is remove the icon from the start menu. <snipped> Watch the personal attacks.
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#10.3 Posted by Fubar on 22 Sep 2005 - 07:31
- is it me or could it be that microsoft is stupid by only removing the start menu and icon after all its supposed to remove the whole product since its in add and remove programs , not add and remove icons and programs from start menu only leaving the whole thing installed
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#10.5 Posted by mr_demilord on 22 Sep 2005 - 10:32
- Well windows brings back the folders and files wich you deleted manualy
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#11 Posted by mr_skrilla on 22 Sep 2005 - 02:53
- man this is bullcrap.
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(2 replies)
#12 Posted by matt74441 on 22 Sep 2005 - 04:30
- Well I know that some people have some interesting views and opinions over what the EU is doing to Microsoft. I for one am not taking sides, but lets try and keep it civil. Plus these are only complaints, and nothing has happened yet.
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#12.1 Posted by Fubar on 22 Sep 2005 - 07:25
- you mean the EU is to blame for companies making complaints against microsoft suerly the EU is just doing its job or should i say the EC is just doing its job and reviewing the complaints and taking appropriate action ???
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#13 Posted by Fubar on 22 Sep 2005 - 07:22
- its amazing how many people dont bother to read the full article , instead they just go on one about microsoft getting a rough deal , the EC is reviewing COMPLAINTS made AGAINST microsoft , some people really should pay attention more
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(3 replies)
#14 Posted by J_R_G on 22 Sep 2005 - 08:23
- The EC must be underbudget again..
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#14.1 Posted by Fubar on 22 Sep 2005 - 08:44
- what part of reviewing complaints dont you understand , companies are complaining not them , they are just doing their job
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#14.2 Posted by mr_demilord on 22 Sep 2005 - 10:36
- If MS did break the law, MS should be punished.
The EC is just investating the complains, nothing more nothing less -
#14.3 Posted by J_R_G on 22 Sep 2005 - 19:56
- So laws like not being allowed to drink on sunday and it being ok for people to duel (mississippi) should be allowed? Sometimes bad laws get passed, obviously. So you can't say "you broke the law, so do the time", you have to look at whether such a law is right for the situation. How can MS be a monopoly when they have FREE competition (linu
. I never heard of no monopoly with FREE competition, how bout you? As far as the guy who said they're only doing their job, how come we only "hear" about them doing their job wrt MS, I'm sure they get 100 complaints a day yet we don't hear about those, seems they're trying to get people ready for action imo.
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#15 Posted by balupton on 22 Sep 2005 - 11:54
- now then uninstalling the products doesnt have anything to do with this.
M$ are getting sued/targetted/whatever because they include these tools on windows installation.
If they were not forced or pushed to install these optional products their would not be a problem to it.
But i still disagree with this, because who decided a OS should be something without software, a OS can be whatever M$ wants it to be, not what some greedy punk thinks it should be, so greedy people can get richer.
They probably wrote their legal documents on XP.
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#15.1 Posted by Treefrog on 22 Sep 2005 - 14:08
QUOTE cheesegoduk, and others - FFS YOU NEWBS, YOU CAN UNINSTALL INTERNET EXPLORER, WMP, WINDOWS MESSENGER
"ADD&REMOVE PROGRAMS->WINDOWS COMPONENTS"
GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH
The same could be said to you, as this does not *actually* uninstall these software packages. If it WAS that easy, there would be no problem. Duh.
Not that that is really the issue at this time. The complaints are mainly centered around the fact that MS does not want to open it's API specs to others, which was another part of the earlier case, and in my mind, the most important part of it (and obviously also to MS, else they wouldn't be dragging their feet as badly).
Maybe YOU should do a little reading on the subject. You are obviously able to access the internet. You would have to be blind (or maybe, blinded by your MS colored glasses) to not see this.
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#16 Posted by k3rny on 22 Sep 2005 - 12:12
- I have two things to point out:
- Some of you really need to read the article: it says the EC is reviewing complaints about Microsoft which is their job.
- Second, some of you are qustioning why Apple doesn't get sued. Lets get thing straight:
Apple MAC OS X does not include any of those apps you are talking about (mail, itunes, quicktime, etc..). Those apps come in iLife which is a sepparate product. The reason that it comes with the macs people buy is because they are sold by Apple, so they can bundle whatever they want. If they licensed their OS X operating system to OEM's, they would be able to sell their products with our without iLife. This is not the case with Microsoft's operating system. The apps are not a sepparate product like iLife that OEM's can opt to include or not, they come pre-installed in the OS and more serious than that, some of them can NOT be removed as someone said here, as they are built deep into the OS.
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#17 Posted by matt74441 on 22 Sep 2005 - 12:35
- Comments Cleaned...again.
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(1 reply)
#18 Posted by xxdesmus on 22 Sep 2005 - 14:09
- The EU really needs to get over themselves. This is ridiculous.
In an interview with the New York Times, Ms Kroes said the competition commission had received a number of informal complaints against Microsoft's bundling of applications since she took office in November 2004.
European Commission spokesperson, Jonathan Todd, confirmed that the competition commission is considering the complaints but said that no decision has been taken on a course of action, adding that the commission does not have to wait for formal complaints to take action against a company it suspects of anti-competitive behavior. Neither Ms Kroes nor Mr Todd revealed any details of the new complaints.
Microsoft is in the process of appealing a record E497.2m ($613m) fine and other remedies imposed by Mario Monti, Ms Kroes' predecessor as EC competition commissioner. In June, Microsoft launched a version of its Windows XP operating system without Windows Media Player, but conforming to other sanctions has not been as smooth.
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