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Microsoft and Intel Back HD-DVD

stncttr908   on 27 September 2005 - 20:18 · 76 comments & 4637 views

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In the latest chapter of the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD saga, Microsoft and Intel have announced their backing of Toshiba's HD-DVD standard. Stephen Balogh, Intel's director of optical media standards and technologies, stated "We (Intel) wanted to choose the format that has the highest probability of this market taking off." Toshiba plans on releasing HD-DVD players in Japan and the United States later this year.

While the announcement is very big for HD-DVD, it is far from a death knell for Blu-Ray. Major Hollywood studios are supporting Blu-Ray, and Sony will have a very large customer base with the launch of its Playstation 3 video game console next year.

View: Full Article @ Reuters


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Post a comment · Send to friend Comments · There are 76 additional comments
#1 madnuke on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:27
Great two rival formats so much for united content......

(3 replies) #2 Mathiasdm on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:37
Allow me to say... DAMN!
Please let Blu-Ray win! I want my 8-layer 200 GB Blu-Ray disk!
#2.1 Express on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:46
QUOTE
manufacturing Blueray discs will require an estimated US$1.7 million cost per manufacturing line. Per line!

estimated cost of retooling for the HD DVD format ...a DVD mastering system can be upgraded for US$145,000.

Source: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/har...ext-gen-dvd.ars

Looks like going for Bluray would be an expensive transition.
#2.2 IGx89 on 28 Sep 2005 - 03:43
Thanks for that link, Tom's Hardware also has more info, included specific details on the six reasons MS/Intel chose HD-DVD over Blu-ray. Here are a couple of the reasons:
QUOTE
First, and perhaps foremost, is the ability for a consumer to make authorized copies of a legally obtained disc, in order to store the content on a hard drive and stream it to devices around the house. Intel particularly wants this capability for its Viiv home entertainment platform, announced last month. "We think it's a great consumer win, and it's a great industry win, to be able to ensure that with good copy protection, you can have so much functionality for the user," Rivas told us. But when recently questioned about its support for these features, Ribas said, although Blu-ray had appeared supportive at one time, its current stance is now uncommitted.

(...)

The surprise entry in Microsoft's and Intel's list of failures is disc storage capacity. On paper, Blu-ray appears to have the advantage. But the two companies looked beneath the paper: Capacity, said Ribas, "used to be the biggest advantage of Blu-ray, and we believed it. We thought, they'll get 50 GByte BD-ROM discs working, but it's not happening, and it's nowhere in sight. There are not even pilots. It's only in the lab that they are building these discs." With regard to demonstrated capacity, he told us, HD DVD-ROM actually leads BD-ROM by a score of 30 GByte to 25 GByte.

The final entry is interactivity standards. Although Microsoft and Disney jointly developed the iHD interactivity layer, based on XML - which is the glue that holds together the "Vista vision" of Microsoft's future Windows platform - and even though Disney is a Blu-ray proponent, the Association chose instead to endorse BDJ, an implementation of Sun-s Java Mobile Edition. Ribas told us that the major studios - either publicly or quietly - are opposed to BDJ, citing its relative complexity and its lack of compelling new features compared to iHD. An optional commentary track for videos, for example, that superimposes the speaker's image on-screen as well as providing audio, is one key iHD feature that BDJ will support only as an option, maybe. "Which means nobody will use it," said Ribas.
#2.3 dhitb on 28 Sep 2005 - 04:51
QUOTE
We think it's a great consumer win, and it's a great industry win, to be able to ensure that with good copy protection, you can have so much functionality for the user

Silly exec, "copy protection" and functionality do not belong in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence.
(1 reply) #3 MGS3-SS on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:39
Blu-Ray is the way of the future. HD-DVD has to low capacity compared to Blu-Ray discs.
#3.1 HawkMan on 28 Sep 2005 - 01:27
HVD is the way of the future. both of these formats are just a middle stop, and in a cost efficienfycontext HD-DVD wins, hands down.

HD-DVD can also be upgraded to much higher storage capacity.

granted they're ready to make HVD players and disks alrleady today, so in reality neither BR or HD-DVD should be considered.

but too much money have been put into research for these to formats from the inventing corps to let them die unusued, they need them on the market to make back their investment. hence they railroad the HVD alternative wich isn't only better, but hasn't used nearly as much money on research.
(5 replies) #4 neufuse on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:46
the real reason hollywood likes blu-ray, so they can put 15GB of commercials and trailers so you have to watch 2 hours of them before you ever see the darn movie.... that is getting so freaking annoying anymore, I buy a dvd to get the movie not watch 10 trailers plus commercials before i can ever get to the main manu... they even lock the buttons out so you have to watch them now for commercial dvd players... sure computers can skip over them depending on the software you are useing, but a hardware dvd player cant...
#4.1 danzorx on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:48
try stopping and restarting teh dvd during the commercials. works for me, but probably just a random accidental feature i have...ymmv
#4.2 father dagon on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:14
Actually, the greatest determining factor as far as what gets adopted is the porn industry. They pretty much call the shots...so to speak.
#4.3 neufuse on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:33
yeah, they are why betamax failed, sony refused to let porn be distributed on beta tapes, so VHS won
#4.4 Skyfrog on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:38
I'm not sure that's really a determining factor anymore with the internet, DVD's and even VHS still in wide use. Back then, being able to watch pre-recorded material any time you wanted was something very new for home users. There were other reasons too; when Betamax was first introduced the recording time was very short compared to VHS. I think it was only one hour; not even enough to hold a single movie.
#4.5 father dagon on 28 Sep 2005 - 03:05
QUOTE
yeah, they are why betamax failed, sony refused to let porn be distributed on beta tapes, so VHS won


Believe what you want, but it's the truth. A lot of it depends on what format the pornography distributors wish to back. They even mention it in a back-issue of Maximum PC a few months ago.
(1 reply) #5 jerry on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:47
More bad news for Blu-Ray:

QUOTE
China DVD player makers Amoi, Changhong support HD-DVD

Amoi Electronics and Sichuan Changhong Electric, two top manufacturers of DVD players in China, have voiced support for the HD-DVD format for next-generation blue-laser DVD players, according to China-based CCID Consulting as quoted by Taiwanese makers of optical disc drives.

This means that the HD-DVD group, led by Toshiba, has won the first round of competition with Blu-ray, another blue-laser standard being pushed by the Blu-ray Disc (BD) group led by Sony, these Taiwanese makers pointed out. One key selling point of the HD-DVD format is that it was developed from existing DVD formats and therefore should incur lower production costs and product development should take a shorter time to market than Blu-ray, the sources indicated.

Source



#5.1 duhk on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:40
What really matters is the customers, which the companies don't give a crap about. Hopefully people will want quality over standards. So then Sony will get a bigger profit out of it, since they might be the only ones producing Blu-ray DVD's and DVD Players.

Then the rest of the DVD player manufacturers supporting HD-DVD would have a shared customer base.
(9 replies) #6 Kalphegor on 27 Sep 2005 - 20:58
What's AMD position then?
#6.1 jerry on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:03
On the fence.
#6.2 Jeremy1 on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:06
Why would AMD have a position?
#6.3 Skyfrog on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:39
Good question, it has nothing to do with them. It's like asking what Pepsi's position is.
#6.4 roadwarrior on 27 Sep 2005 - 23:24
Well, AMD would have as much reason as Intel to have a position on it. I think that was the point Kalphengor was trying to make.
#6.5 Skyfrog on 27 Sep 2005 - 23:33
Point taken, but...

QUOTE
Stephen Balogh, Intel's director of optical media standards and technologies


Intel is a lot bigger than AMD and they do more things.
#6.6 Jeremy1 on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:10
Intel does much more than just making processors, AMD does not. Skyfrog got it.
#6.7 amrinders87 on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:30
AMD doesnt need to get in this. They are being neutral.
#6.8 Jeremy1 on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:47
They are being neutral the same way Pepsi is being neutral. Neither one of them matters, so who cares?
#6.9 Dodgy on 28 Sep 2005 - 18:01
pepsi may need to use them for coasters, i wanna know thier position!
(4 replies) #7 Colonel_Angus on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:12
LOL @ the xbox 360 fanboys that will have to buy a $99.99 HD-DVD "upgrade" to the 360 to play the games that come out later in the consoles life.
#7.1 DomFel on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:23
Nope, they'll have to buy just an HD (Hard Disk) upgrade if they want to use some advanced features of the upcoming games. It also seems x360s with HD will be faster too.
#7.2 necrosis on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:24
Ahhh what? Adding a HD wont make a DVD drive read HD-DVD.
#7.3 HawkMan on 28 Sep 2005 - 01:31
Must be evidence of the intelligence of a PS3 fanboi...

let's not ever know wat we're talkign about before we talk...
#7.4 Treefrog on 28 Sep 2005 - 20:26
QUOTE
Nope, they'll have to buy just an HD (Hard Disk) upgrade if they want to use some advanced features of the upcoming games. It also seems x360s with HD will be faster too.


Seems that, not only has somebody lost the plot, but that they're not even reading the same book hehe.

I, for one, would have no problem paying an extra $100ish to upgrade to an HD-DVD, but I fear it may be a higher hurdle. We can always hope.
(4 replies) #8 MajinFix on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:15
will x360 have HD-DVD or not :
#8.1 DomFel on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:21
It will.
#8.2 MGS3-SS on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:22
Not from launch. Maybe and Add-On, but I bet that it would be only to see HD-DVD movies, not games.
#8.3 DomFel on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:25
I don't think folks over MS are so stupid to not to include an HD-DVD player on the 360. The console is not out yet, and rumors can be fake too..
#8.4 Treefrog on 28 Sep 2005 - 20:30
Since launch is just a little over a month away, and they're still wrestling with the HD-DVD spec, I would say negatory on that at launch, since I imagine there are likely pallets of 360's already stacked in manufacturers warehouses.
#9 ev0| on 27 Sep 2005 - 21:58
The rumors are that it has only a regular DVD player. But now it's looking HD-DVD all the way.
(1 reply) #10 peterish on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:11
Begun the DVD war has.
#10.1 Treefrog on 28 Sep 2005 - 20:31
OMG!! Look, it's Yoda!
#11 Joshie on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:20
Oh god, I don't even care anymore. I really don't. Any shortcomings of either format will be worked out or compensated for over time by players and innovations. Just let one of them win, and be done with it. Technology wars are supposed to force new ideas and improvements, but neither HD-DVD nor Blu-ray have updated specs to compete with each other. They're just sitting there playing politics.
(1 reply) #12 hardgiant on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:21
Who cares who Intel and microsoft support they will have little to no impact.

Hell Windows XP doesn't support either DVD plus or DVD minus format and that was decided by the consumer and the combo player.
#12.1 TRC on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:32
QUOTE
Who cares who Intel and microsoft support they will have little to no impact.


Welcome to hardgiants dream world, where reality is not as it seems.

QUOTE
Windows XP doesn't support either DVD plus or DVD minus format


Which pretty much means that it does not back up your argument at all. Now if XP had natively supported one or the other, we could have used it as a basis for how much influence they have. As it is though your just talking nonsense. Windows XP doesn't support VHS either so I guess your right, Microsoft has no influence at all.
(3 replies) #13 eilegz on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:23
omg wintel its going with hd-dvd this would make dell and hp backoff supporting blu-ray in the long term with this major studios support blu ray and computers oriented hd-dvd this will be interesting somehow i dun like those two i want a frikin standard format
#13.1 amdew on 27 Sep 2005 - 23:40
Suggestion: Learn a little about punctuation.
#13.2 oblique on 28 Sep 2005 - 03:18
wow great comment, im so glad u pointed out he needs punctuation!!!!
#13.3 mufdvr3669 on 28 Sep 2005 - 06:26
WOW DUDE YOUR COMMENT WAS SO AWESOME OBLIQUE!!! WAY TO GO!!!!
(1 reply) #14 Kushan on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:45
Hmm, is it possible we'll end up with Blu-ray movie players and HD-DVD for data storage?
#14.1 HawkMan on 28 Sep 2005 - 01:33
Most likely it'd end up the other way around in that case.

as HD-DVD actually contrary to what the article indicates, has a slightly bigger part of Hollywood supprting them.
(4 replies) #15 breadfan on 27 Sep 2005 - 22:53
Neither of these are going to last very long. With holographic discs that can store over a terabyte comming out soon, the life of the 30+ gig discs isn't going to be very long.
#15.1 Skyfrog on 27 Sep 2005 - 23:44
Do you really need a terabyte for a movie though? I think there's eventually going to be a split with one format being used for data and the other for movies. Then again it would be nice to get every season of every series of Star Trek on a single disc. Too bad that one disc would probably cost $5000 and if you scratch it, tough luck.
#15.2 rIaHc3 on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:02
QUOTE
With holographic discs that can store over a terabyte coming out soon

Well if you consider 5-10 years soon then I guess so.
OLEDs are coming before these discs (1-2 years) so you can wait on your terabyte discs...
#15.3 jerry on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:20
QUOTE
OLEDs are coming before these discs (1-2 years) so you can wait on your terabyte discs...

OLEDs are already out and Holographic storage format is slated for next year.
#15.4 jmole on 28 Sep 2005 - 02:54
Having terabyte media for TV season boxsets or movie boxsets would be nice. I rather have one disk then multiple disks.
(6 replies) #16 Echelon Left on 27 Sep 2005 - 23:12
Well well; Just when you thought it was safe to buy a blu-ray drive, the WinTel Alliance has to come along and muddy the watters.
And so the Blu-Ray wars continue. Wake me up when we get to a dominant next-gen format, will you please?
#16.1 dj_alex_m on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:31
Good call Echelon. I for one as a consumer, will not purchase either format until there is a clear winner out of all this. In the end, it's all going to hurt the companies selling these products. It will keep prices high until one format has won, and consumers start buying these new drives.

I for one, fell the a company, such as Microsoft, who is in the position they are in, should not be choosing which format to back, but rather support both.
#16.2 Jeremy1 on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:45
Microsoft has just as much right as Sony to pick a side.
#16.3 jerry on 28 Sep 2005 - 01:41
QUOTE
Microsoft has just as much right as Sony to pick a side.

And very few realise that.
#16.4 roadwarrior on 28 Sep 2005 - 12:50
QUOTE
Microsoft has just as much right as Sony to pick a side.


How so? Sony makes computers. Sony makes drives. Sony makes movies (which will eventually be sold on some type of DVD). Microsoft does none of these things.
#16.5 Treefrog on 28 Sep 2005 - 20:38
QUOTE
How so? Sony makes computers. Sony makes drives. Sony makes movies (which will eventually be sold on some type of DVD). Microsoft does none of these things.


Microsoft makes the XBox. Guess that little fact slipped your mind.
#16.6 deiong15 on 01 Oct 2005 - 01:11
honestly who give a load if ms supports it or not. big deal. ms also supports wmv files on dvd (terminator ) you now how well that has gone so far haha
(1 reply) #17 rIaHc3 on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:03
HD-DVD looks like the solid format for the future IMO....
#17.1 IGx89 on 28 Sep 2005 - 03:50
Yes, I agree; with Blu-ray even losing its last advantage (bigger capacity), HD-DVD is definitely looking to be the obvious winner. At least it'll now be harder for people to pirate PS3 games .
#18 eilegz on 28 Sep 2005 - 00:32
i just wondering if this battle of formats its a good thing for consumers??

I personally think that its ridiculous and it only bring confusion to everyone
#19 Sem82 on 28 Sep 2005 - 01:41
which ever is cheapest to make/buy will win
#20 illz55 on 28 Sep 2005 - 02:17
I just read a few articles that talk about the fairly unpublicized features of Blu-Ray discs and boy am I glad to hear that HD-DVD is supported by many big companies; it is really much better in many ways than Blu-Ray. These features include the ability of the discs to change your player's firmware and very strong anti-copying and anti-piracy features that although sound good if you don't read the fine print, actually piss me off. Go HD-DVD!
#21 Nand on 28 Sep 2005 - 04:14
Anyways what they might do is have two different versions of a game, one with HDDVD with extras etc., and one reuglar one. This is if HD DVD does not come with the regular XBOX 360 version.

In addition to that the only clear advantage over Bluray that HDDVD has is the cost in transitioning their equipment. There is debate over anti piracy in Blu ray also, many people will tend to shy away from it.

Many movie companies however support Bluray, a small sign of this is the support of Sony's UMD discs for movies. Sony is making a calculated risk, so is Nintendo (with their controller), and so is Microsoft. Will be there be a winner?
#22 dhitb on 28 Sep 2005 - 04:54
MS was basically forced to go with HD-DVD because it sure as hell isn't going to license the format from its biggest competitor in the console market, no surprise there. Intel OTOH, interesting move from them.

As someone once said, the winner will not be based on the technical superiority, rather whichever format the porn industry adopts.
(3 replies) #23 Dessimat0r on 28 Sep 2005 - 05:45
By the way, with Blu-ray comes a whole load of DRM. This put me off the format completely.
#23.1 Danrarbc641 on 28 Sep 2005 - 06:42
As does HD-DVD. They're both trying to avoid the cracks that happened with DVD.
#23.2 wicker_man on 28 Sep 2005 - 07:43
Did you read the IntelSoft statement? They said they want to leave the option to copy the content to a computer, like Win Media Center.
Crazy DRM features is why Hollywood supports Blu-Ray. They know that Sony will do everything to protect their 'rights' and limit consumers to theirs, because Sony has its feet deep in the entertainment industry, therefore Sony is just like them. They don't give a damn about the fact that consumers would need to buy new Blu-Ray players, etc (which obviously would cost a fortune, no more $29.99 for a cheap Chinese make in Wal-Mart). HD-DVD would offer a much smoother transition in this case. And again, id Blu-Ray wins, we all would end up with a Sony format, and we all know what that means: Sony format would make you buy only Sony (ATRAC, MemoryStick come to mind). This is a big bid for Sony, since none of their above mentioned technologies has gone big, therefore they would do everything to make sure it goes their way now. And for those who want a bigger storage - get yourself a portable HDD (I use my iPod for that).
#23.3 THX1701 on 29 Sep 2005 - 10:51
AGAIN.

Blu-ray is EVERY ELECTRONICS MAKER EXCEPT: Toshiba, NEC, Sanyo.

Sony is one of the biggest.
Articles that make out that Sony is the ONLY thing behind Blu-ray is stupid.
Is Panasonic a little bitty company? Philips?

HD-DVD is a BS format by Toshiba. Vaporware on the order of the Phantom Videogame console. It is a "smoother" transition in the same way having SuperVCD (based on CD technology) instead of DVD.

Anyone who supports HD-DVD over Blu-ray is not reading all the facts.
(2 replies) #24 Dirtie on 28 Sep 2005 - 06:14
I think this really is the death knell for Blu-Ray. Whether we like it or not, a lot of what Microsoft says, goes. Blu-ray will fight, but ultimately it won't take off as much as HD-DVD will.
#24.1 m-head on 28 Sep 2005 - 10:37
You could end up eating your words, unless you're right, in which case PS3 will either convert to HD-DVDs, which will screw up PS3 for a while.

I could have told you 3 months ago that Microsoft were backing HD-DVD....their own console is using it.
#24.2 roadwarrior on 28 Sep 2005 - 12:54
People have been forgetting the biggest thing that may have led Microsoft to back HD-DVD. Apple has already said they would be backing Blu-Ray (several months ago), and of course, Microsoft is going to do exactly the opposite.
(2 replies) #25 Yogurth on 28 Sep 2005 - 13:37
I can only agree that this is death sentence for Blu-Ray. It was clear for almost a year when Microsoft backed HD-DVD that Blu-Ray was going to have tough time. Now with Intel's adoption it's over. It is better this way 1 format only, no matter BR or HDDVD.

....and having a history of Sony's price unfriendly proprietary formats, this is great.
#25.1 THX1701 on 29 Sep 2005 - 10:46
This is a pretty ridiculous statement.

It's NOT Sony's proprietary format.
PANASONIC. HITACHI. JVC. MITSUBISHI. PHILIPS. SAMSUNG. APPLE. HP. DELL. PIONEER. TDK.
Ring a bell? All of these companies (and more) are part of the Blu-ray Disc Association. Most of these are EXCLUSIVE.

The ONLY major electronics makers that support HD-DVD are Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo.
This press rellease is just desperate propaganda on the part of Toshiba who will LOSE any format war. They have almost NO support from the electronics industry.
Intel doesn't make playback hardware. Or software. Microsoft doesn't make hardware.
Do some research before making such statements in public.
#25.2 Yogurth on 29 Sep 2005 - 12:12
Oh You haven't read it all then I guess or otherwise You wouldn't be making *tupid comments.
Intel will present a very important step in Digital Home Media by introducing a platform called VIIV. Also You have not read analysis from Tom's hardware and the real state of Blu-Ray format. I am well aware of who is backing which format, but If You have no1 and no3(wild guess, but close one) company in the world backing certain format it is very, very deceptive how will things evolve in future.

About who is the owner of Blu-Ray read here: http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/18/bluray/index.php?pf=1

small quote from that site: "That draws the battle line—whichever format does the most for consumers will probably win. Sony invented Blu-Ray and supports it not only in electronics but through Sony Pictures, Sony Television, and other properties it owns (including Columbia, Tri-Star, and now MGM Studios). Dell, HP, and now Apple have all thrown their support behind Blu-Ray, and you’ll be able to buy drives not only from Sony but also from a variety of other manufacturers listed above."

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