Over a dozen business executives, including Microsoft's Steve Ballmer, Vivendi Universal's Jean-Rene Fourtou and GlaxoSmithKline's Andrew Witty have joined forces to fight piracy in all markets, not just the software sector. Items from DVDs to medicines, toys to car parts, are the focus of this new business alliance. Counterfeit goods are costing companies more than $600 billion and the growth of this market is posing a threat to economic development, experts say.
The alliance is called BASCAP (Business Action to Stop Counterfeiting and Piracy) and is run by the International Chamber of Commerce. Eric Nicoli, chairman of EMI Group said "Piracy remains a real problem for virtually every sector in every country in the world. In the past five years, technology has changed so much that it is now possible to replicate perfectly pretty much any product anywhere in the world".
View: BASCAP Website
View: ICC Website
The alliance is called BASCAP (Business Action to Stop Counterfeiting and Piracy) and is run by the International Chamber of Commerce. Eric Nicoli, chairman of EMI Group said "Piracy remains a real problem for virtually every sector in every country in the world. In the past five years, technology has changed so much that it is now possible to replicate perfectly pretty much any product anywhere in the world".
View: BASCAP Website View: ICC Website
Note: Neowin does not condone piracy. Any comments linking to pirated software/media or suggesting where to obtain it will be removed.
I will pirate until the day I go to Jail.
Steve Ballmer is one bloody WEIRD guy. I showed my dad the dance monkey boy thing and he was shocked by the level of immaturity.
OK, so if the pirates can replicate these items (not software or movies, but physical items) so much cheaper than the original makers, doesn't that say something about the inflated profit margins of these companies? I understand that companies have to recoup development costs, but most companies don't lower prices after those costs have been covered.
Last edited by 43403 on 06 Oct 2005 - 08:19
The reason they can sell them so much cheaper is because unlike the companies that produce these products, pirates do not have to spend money on research and development and marketing and packaging and distribution. They get all that for free, so of course they are going to sell them cheaper. They just have to pay for production, which is a piffle when you use substandard materials and production.
If they actually tried to sell their own original products, they would not have a hope of competing. Their products would be crap, nobody would know about them, and nobody would buy them.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, pirate.
And what's worse is that the end user of a product ends up paying for the product sometimes threefold or more just for the trade-off of conveniance over price. This is because the manufacturer sells it to the retailer at at a markup from the production cost and then the retailer marks it up yet again to make his profit. As opposed to a black market seller producing his own replicas and selling them directly to the consumer. You can see that this has it's advantages.
If you really want to stop pirating, then what you need to do is implement a fast effective distribution method for selling your product directly to the consumers instead of going through retailers. This will go a long way for cutting the prices, even with shipping costs. The only drawback is that the consumer loses the conveniance of being able to just walk into a store the day he/she wants/needs the product. But this isn't that bad if you can speed up the distribution to the individual buyers. Unfortunately we don't live in a society where the technology for this is availible to us.
One solution is to just build your own warehouses wherever you want to distribute, but that's a pretty radical and expensive undertaking, plus it's unfair to companys that don't have the resources to do so, which is why I think there are laws against it.
So yes, this is more complicated and problematic than I originally thought. I should have stopped and really thought about it before posting.
Here's hoping for a brighter future where technology can make distribution extremely fast and cheap on an individual basis.
Or... wait... how about rethinking the massive centralization of production and having more localized production? Gee, that would be a lot better. Why don't we do that?
Last edited by 43403 on 06 Oct 2005 - 11:41
No, but I can assure you it says something about the quality of the counterfeit. Do you really think a knock-off $50 Rolex copy has anything whatsoever in common with the real thing, other than the general look? Precision manufacture and design is not a cheap thing to come by. I, for one, would want a Rolex due to the quality of the product and NOT just to have something that says Rolex on my arm. Course I'm also one of those that actually realizes that the true worth of say, a BMW is in the way it drives, and not seen as a status symbol to show off wealth (probably why I'd be just as happy, if not happier with say, a late '80's model as a new one... '88 M5.. yum).
Haha, Neowin needs a new type of fanboyism.
Seriously though, companies do need to charge quite a bit for their products, but the problem is that they are far overshooting any sane figures. Like with movies, a huge chunk of my 20 dollars (USD-OMG) for the DVD is going into the multi-million dollar paychecks of snooty celebrities. Acting is a JOB, I don't understand the reverence these people receive, but that's for another discussion.
Last edited by 46870 on 07 Oct 2005 - 05:09
Waste of time and money.
(Yes I know its a bad metaphor but still funny)
* waits for the Neowin kiddie piraters to start flaming *
*/Me Pirates <insert Expensive Software>*
I do agree (to an extent) that piracy is right (only because of the cost) but I don't agree is pirate hardware.... Things like fake graphics cards, fakes toy cars etc etc.
Because with software, you know what your getting, with hardware, you don't know what your getting !!!
And please, don't get me wrong, I do not condone piracy at all... But I do believe that the price of things drive people to piracy !
You can't get a better definition of "contradiction", even if you looked it up in the dictionary!
Piracy is wrong. Whether it is downloading MP3s, installing Windows on several PCs, or whatever other scenario is laid out. People use "cost" to justify it, but that is just a cop-out.
Didn't say because he meant it, but to post inflammatory patronism.
I disagree.
Certainly you can come up with a situation where it would be morally correct to pirate a song or software.
I can.
A murderer takes your family hostage and says he will kill them, unless you download a warezed copy of Windows XP Pro for him.
Now that I think of it, it is still wrong. It is just less wrong than the dire theoretical alternative I absurdly presented.
You may ask how I can say this but the simple fact is it was one group that formed the thought of saying this is wrong and thats wrong in their mind. Basicly Religion came into the picture.
I do not follow any mans religion. I walk my own path and deal with the repercussions and joys.
All great empires fall. Society is one of many.
You may ask how I can say this but the simple fact is it was one group that formed the thought of saying this is wrong and thats wrong in their mind. Basicly Religion came into the picture.
I do not follow any mans religion. I walk my own path and deal with the repercussions and joys.
All great empires fall. Society is one of many.
Oh look a philosopher.....
Did you know that audio books are in the same boat as songs and video? A lot of auditory people in college, especially blind students, rely heavily on these. One guy wanted an example of when piracy is appropriate; well, there you go. Believe it or not, companies that produce those audio books require everything but your big toe in order to distribute copies to their students. All these stupid, pointless alliances between companies is a sad attempt to get in the loop of the already failed companies and activists, who are strongly against piracy, and try to make the dent that they never made. F*ck 'em all and tell 'em to snort some carpet fresh.
getting together a few big heads isn't going to solve the problem IMO. I could pick a dozen homeless guys and call it the Homeless Peoples Action to Stop Counterfeiting and Piracy.
I figured you'd instantly dismiss anything I say without consideration, and there was therefore very little point in providing reason. Also note that it was something of a parody on the posts of people on the other side of this argument, particularly your post, where you grouped and labelled all piracy as bad without giving any reason.
First of all, I don't think there are many situations in which piracy is "right", but I don't believe that it's always wrong.
Let me give you some examples, based upon my own experiences of piracy and my philosophy of piracy in general.
There have been several cases where I have downloaded music, movies or software that I've never heard of, and would almost certainly never have heard of, just because the name was interesting/I was bored/insert reason here. I enjoyed them so much, that I decided to go out and purchase the entire library (or a good chunk thereof) of said band/musician/writer/director/developer. By my act of piracy, I had exposed myself to art that I would never have otherwise exposed myself to, and decided that it was worth supporting. Was downloading their stuff a "good" thing to do? Nope, but direct benefit came to the artists involved as a result of my act of piracy.
On the other side of that coin, there's been things in the past (particularly games), that I would have probably bought, and been wildly disappointed with (my purchase of Tribes 2 on the day of release, and subsequent annoyance at how crap it was comes instantly to mind). Was this a good thing for the purveyors of this crap? Absolutely not, it cost them revenue, but saved me some disappointment and a feeling of being burned.
Ultimately, when I "try before I buy", I am doing just that. I try the product, and if I feel that the author deserves my support, then I pay, it's that simple. If I obtain something, the acid test is whether I'd be willing to pay for it if the illicit copy stopped working, and I'm pretty honest with myself in that, not that it's between anyone but me and the author.
I'm sure you can list a bunch of vague and spurious reasons while this is still wrong, but I fail to see anything at all wrong with it, and it's highly unlikely that you'll change my mind.
When content creators/providers get together to come up with anti piracy technologies, it's always the legitimate consumer that pays the price - in terms of increased price to cover the research and licensing of anti piracy technologies, to the inconvenience of online activations, validations, media that won't play in their hardware, and dodgy drivers that crash their systems. The pirates simply circumvent all of this. Now that my friend, is what is wrong.
Last edited by 8585 on 06 Oct 2005 - 14:18
My heart bleeds that some poor CEO will have to settle for a measly $2 million pay raise this year because some mean person made a knock off of their overpriced product. Poor executives will have to settle for a Gulf JetStream 4 private jet instead of the JetStream 5. I mean, come on, the JetStream 4 doesn't even come with a remote for it's DVD surround system.
Some of these people should just be grateful that piracy is their worst problem. The ratio of wealth distribution between rich and poor has historically been far more balanced than this before rich peoples' heads started coming off. Viva la revolution!
It always pisses me off to see articles on things that "cost" business in productivity and profit. It doesn't cost business, it costs some asshat who's already making more in a year than most of us will see in our lifetimes.
I guess i'm on the fence when it comes to piracy, I'm unsure weather to agree, or disagree.... Anyone else like this ? Or is it just me ?
jeje
i mean, i dont mean to lessen the importance of private piracy, but i think corporate piracy is a much larger issue.
And then a army of layers smashes down you door and demands that you pay them money you don't have or they'll do something nasty to your grandmother.
{this has been another episode of Ironic Comment Theatre}
Piracy is done by every type of person.
i bet you atleast 75% of the posts from illiterate inbred morons in this thread are from americans.
Oh wait, that's not only wildly inaccurate, it's a horrible and idiotic thing to say. People like you should be rounded up and put into a hole in the ground, no matter where they come from.
It's just some stupid corporate BS initiative so they can get some more corporate contributions from rich idiots and butt-heads like Mark Jensen who actually are brainwashed enough to buy their corporate BS lines.
They won't stop piracy. This BS figure of a 600 billion dollar loss is just a load of crap made up by some exec after snorting a pile of coke off his mahogany desk with a piece of his $1000 pen used as a quick and handy straw.
They make money off of the exposure they get due to Joe Schmoes copying software because it gets them publicity and exposure. For example: Joe Schmoe illegally copies the software for a friend -- who in turn is witnessed by his working dad/mom/friend etc using this decent software. *let's say it's Office 2003. Then the dad/mom/friend goes to his/her company and says how cool MS Office is. Purchases ensue.
It may seem like an unlikely scenario to nay-sayers. But, it DOES happen.
Just leave the small-time downloaders (who weren't going to pay anyway) alone...
Downloading, making a copy for yourself, etc. is really about as illegal (technically) as taping and keeping a copy of a movie off of HBO or an episode off of TV.
To make ignorant comments like "give up" or "it'll never go away" is like saying that you don't care about the economies of your own countries. The complete inability of the Chinese government to put a stop to this is to blame mostly for this problem. It's a love and hate thing, our countries pay China to create goods because they'll work for like $1.50 a day in factories, but then they turn around and counterfeit things too.
developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers... yes!!
We need to be able to justify the item we buy. Example... Joe Black does not mind spending $299 on a screen card, cause he is an avid gamer....underlying...he is able to justify that money with his purchase, where as Joe Non-Gamer can not justify $299 but opts for a $29 card.
Anyone care to disagree?
See post #2 above.
I beg to differ, a deceased pirate will certainly stop...
If the "Pirates" can use that technology to make duplicates and sell them at a "profit" then obviously the "legitimate" businesses are doing something wrong.
Basically, dont give people a reason to pirate and they wont. Stop overcharging, underpaying, region locking, and other STUPID policies you put in place to make a larger profit... then the pirates wont be able to make money and therefore will STOP pirating.
I agree that its not right but not everyone can afford software, and the ones that can who still pirate have reasons to do so (ie, hates a certain company).
One thing I wish to see stopped is people who SELL pirated copies of things to make profit, now thats wrong on so many levels and just low. Oh well. Life goes on...
Businesses are after too much money, PC's need an underground world, to keep alot of people interested
Piracy sux,
You must be really proud.
Last edited by 108898 on 06 Oct 2005 - 12:23
I use GNU/linux wich is rock solid stable, ofcourse I don't pay for crappy software I even don't want it for free
£45 for a psp game is taking the @@@@!
£30 i can live with but 45 is just extortionate.
Last edited by 12891 on 06 Oct 2005 - 15:22
I'm dang sick of hearing about companies claiming they lost something they never had in the first place.
Last edited by 22064 on 06 Oct 2005 - 14:50
I mean if piracy has gotten mainstream, there is a reason for that. It's a voice and an opinion. Most people who do pirate wouldn't want to unless it offers them something that the paid one can't. It isn't the oh-so-obvious 'free' aspect. Believe me when I say most people have no problem paying for music and movies and whatnot. Look at p2p though, when used properly it a massive distribution system that makes it so easy to retrieve almost any piece of software/music/movie. Yes there are other distribution systems, however some of them only allow you to copy them a certain number of times or distribute them with poorer quality. Why should I be get a lousy copy of a song that can be only stored on three computers? When a pirated version can give me better benefits?
I dislike corporations telling people that they're morally wrong with pirating. I mean, seriously now. Corporations are hardly the righteous entities to dictates my morals to me.
They are just poking a lion with a stick, saying bite me.
The 40% increase will lose a majority of customers, which will result in piracy.
Instead they should decrease prices, and then increasing the ammount of customers.
To stop anything, you stop it at its source.
But of course the greedy companies/corporations dont want to do that, because this gives them publicity, and money, so the corps/comps get more money, while the consumer gets screwed over.
Here is an example of this atm:
An audio cd costs 25$,
Add 10$ to stop piracy, and you end up with a total of 35$
Now they say piracy is on the rise, you can see y why.
When say if they dropped that price of the cd to 15$
Their would not be a need for piracy.
Hence that qoute from apple about raising prices would only encourage piracy.
Now sure you need to make sure the authors are getting profit, so even with say 50c profit, they would sell more and make a bigger profit than if they demanded a 1$ profit.
If you disagree with this, i would like to know y,
And all u kiddies flaming and doing useless posts, no one cares
For example music : In America is quite difficult to have some kind of music, for example in America you cannot listen all European music.. even famous groups in Europe in America are completelly ignored from radios to music stores.. not to say about Korean and Japaneses music. In opposite, you can find Britney Spears everywhere even when she sux!.. With piracy you have a lot of choice of products obtain from everywhere. For example Ringu Movie, the movie is awesome but it was almost impossible to buy a copy of it.. and when it was available, then Hollywood give a ridiculous The Ring movie...
The trouble is not only piracy, also the fact thay they want to "buy THEIR PRODUCTS.. not others.. and no choice!".