Microsoft Threatens to Pull Windows From South Korea
Posted by dw2003 on 28 October 2005 - 14:24 · 69 comments & 24512 views
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#1 Posted by bucko on 28 Oct 2005 - 14:30
- Then if they do that people wonder why piracy is so bad.
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#2 Posted by IGx89 on 28 Oct 2005 - 14:35
- Considering all the piracy, it'd probably be cheaper just to drop Korean support than devote legal and programming resources
[edit] I posted 6 minutes after Eduard... [/edit]
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(1 reply)
#3 Posted by EduardValencia on 28 Oct 2005 - 14:38
- here we go again,why that jealousy against MS?
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#3.1 Posted by mr_demilord on 28 Oct 2005 - 18:38
- are you?
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(2 replies)
#4 Posted by jwjw1 on 28 Oct 2005 - 14:46
- it does make sense...why should MS rewrite Windows Code just for any country..(Costing Millions to rewrite and Manufacture,for sales that won't probably break even...since Asia is the Main Pirates of Software)when you have the option of uninstalling Messenger and also not using Media Player....install something else like the majority probably do..with yahoo,ICQ,AOL.
Thats like Tire Companies refusing to make anymore tires unless GM,Ford,Chysler start selling Cars without Tires...so they all can compete for the Sale of Tires.
Last edited by 5417 on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:05 -
#4.1 Posted by Treefrog on 30 Oct 2005 - 05:32
QUOTE Thats like Tire Companies refusing to make anymore tires unless GM,Ford,Chysler start selling Cars without Tires...so they all can compete for the Sale of Tires.
Gads. I guess there is a generation of bad analogy makers out there. Hmmm. So when exactly, does WMP wear out so that people have to research which replacement media player to get? Oh, that's right.. it doesn't. Therefore most people never research media players because they already have one that comes with their "cpu". (Note, for those of you that want to point out to me that a computer loaded with an OS is not a "cpu", please review the definition of sarcasm)-
#4.2 Posted by MasterSpy on 30 Oct 2005 - 22:06
- Possibly the wrong analogy - but the correct approach. Why should Microsoft stop shipping Windows Media Player with Windows Media Player in EU countries? If I wanted to use Quicktime, I would download it. Most media players are free as it is, and Windows Media Player is far superior to anything Real Networks and Apple have to offer.
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#5 Posted by paddy_dalton on 28 Oct 2005 - 14:58
- yeah i suppose it makes sense, this is microsoft's own product it doesnt belong to anyone else, MS dont have an obligation to sell the software! they can either buy the software or go somewhere else.
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(3 replies)
#6 Posted by SoNiCfReAk on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:02
- Please do, please promote Linux as the only legal big name OS in the country where the PC is popular culture!
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#6.1 Posted by Hottoast on 28 Oct 2005 - 18:15
- even if microsoft did pull windows, Linux would not pop up in its place.
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#6.2 Posted by mr_demilord on 28 Oct 2005 - 18:40
- Linux aint Windows.
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(1 reply)
#7 Posted by balupton on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:09
- Would serve the those greedy people right, if they abuse it, they lose it! - haha so true.
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(4 replies)
#8 Posted by WinMacLin on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:05
- Good in fact if I was MS I would withdraw Windows from South Korea even before the ruling is announced to stop anyone else getting bright ideas then the country will blame the people who brought the lawsuit up.
Fore Shame! - Go Microsoft -
#8.1 Posted by Darkinspiration on 28 Oct 2005 - 19:06
- you give way to much credit to microsoft. You know mankind can live without windows, they did it before, they can do it again.
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#8.2 Posted by Manksgloob on 28 Oct 2005 - 21:53
- @8.1:
And computers, and electronics, and guns, and cars, and other vehicles, and movies, and tvs, and microwaves, and refridgerators, and massive food processing plants, and waste management, and municipal water processing plants, and electricity, and --
Mankind lived without all of these things. They certainly could do it all again, how far back do you want to go?
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#8.3 Posted by Darkinspiration on 29 Oct 2005 - 16:04
- only as far as a viable alternative
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#8.4 Posted by NeoReader on 31 Oct 2005 - 04:07
- We lived without windows before but we won't be able to do it again. It is used so much in so many ways that removing windows is like that comercial about living without plastic.
We have come to a point that yeah we could live without all these things IF we had some kind of tragic event that would get rid of it like the "Day after tomorrow" but as for us saying "ok no more windows as of 2006". . . .I'll see you re-installing it 3 days later . . . .
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(1 reply)
#9 Posted by Shadrack on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:14
- so much of that countries tax dollars waisted on such bureaucratic non-sense. I'm glad Microsoft is taking a stand on this rubbish. I wish they would have taken a stand in the European market as well... but alas, there are too many profits to be had.
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#9.1 Posted by Darkinspiration on 28 Oct 2005 - 19:09
- it's not sense for a gouvernement ot regulate trade. It's infact one of it's functions.
If microsoft was found violating a trade law it's not the gouvernement fault, it's microsoft. That's the way it is.
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(2 replies)
#10 Posted by Mathiasdm on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:23
- Wooh, pull it!
Finally, 'the year of desktop Linux' would come :-D
Market share of Apple and Linux would rise even quicker
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#10.1 Posted by The Grasshopper on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:32
- you wish..
horray for MS.
about time they told 'em to kiss thier @ss.
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#11 Posted by uceboyx on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:31
- well.. a smart move from M$
but,
not smart enough...
South Korea will manage to support Linux, which most of the MMORPGs will probably move to Linux instead of Windows also
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#12 Posted by Nexus on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:36
It almost sounds as though Korea wants a settlement like the EU got (650 million). I mean, all of a sudden after years on Windows being in the Korean market now they want to scream foul play.
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(4 replies)
#13 Posted by TC17 on 28 Oct 2005 - 15:47
- Not too bright for Microsoft to do. Guess who will become the new warez haven for Microsoft products, and they will give the same attitude back to Microsoft when they come crying because of the warez.
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#13.1 Posted by dj_alex_m on 28 Oct 2005 - 16:04
- Not if they completly drop the Korean language all together, then they will have no need to pirate the software.
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#13.2 Posted by spongaweb on 28 Oct 2005 - 16:18
- I think we should be saying now is "Guess who will become the new english learning haven for Microsoft products,..."
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#13.4 Posted by Darkinspiration on 28 Oct 2005 - 19:10
- If theyre is a market other's will take it. The consumer will not learn english if he dosent have to. Have no fear.
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#14 Posted by Capt.Curran on 28 Oct 2005 - 16:36
- Wow thats a lot of windows. How they gonna stop the rain getting in?
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(1 reply)
#15 Posted by Colonel_Angus on 28 Oct 2005 - 17:12
- 1. Pull software product from foreign market.
2. Foreign government legalizes piracy of your software.
3. ???
4. Profit!!!
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(7 replies)
#16 Posted by Spitfire_x86 on 28 Oct 2005 - 17:43
- Why don't MS let users choose what to install and what not to install during setup? Does Windows break if users don't install WMP, Windows Messenger? (from nLite expereince, we know it doesn't)
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#16.1 Posted by mr_demilord on 28 Oct 2005 - 18:44
- Because MS is greedy and wants to be a monopolist in everything, OS, browser, media player ,messenger everything!
If you can't beat them sue them if you can't sue them buy them. -
#16.2 Posted by karmakillernz on 28 Oct 2005 - 21:48
- Lots of applications use the built-in services for the base of their software. If they were removed from Windows, those applications would stop working.
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#16.3 Posted by Ideas Man on 29 Oct 2005 - 00:16
- Exactly, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Windows provides code libraries for others to use, the IE engine, WMP engine are code libraries for other developers to use so they don't need to write nothing more than wrappers. IE and WMP are simply front-ends to the code libraries. For instance, the IE engine is shared between HTML Help, Help and Support, Windows Explorer among other things, plus it allows other developers to embrace the web w/o writing their own browser, so Microsoft Office can now browse the web, along with lots of other programs (which isn't too hard to find, but some I cannot name here).
WMP is the same, why should you write the audio/video plumbing for each and every program you need, it would add hours to the development costs and defeats the idea that Windows is very easy to develop for (which it is). Proof of this lies when it broke A/V in word, Microsoft removed it all and it broke, but the EU then bounced back and effectively asked them to put some of it back.
That's why they don't remove them, why provide all the plumbing and no way of using it? That's IE and WMP.
As for Windows Messenger, it was never designed for the consumer, sure it can connect to the MSN Messenger network, but it's a CORPORATE IM client, I don't use it, and about 99% of my contacts don't use it, so in otherwords, either the south korean government is considerably stupid (bit like the EU) or they are greedy, take your pick.
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#16.4 Posted by eilegz on 29 Oct 2005 - 02:53
- that its a pretty bad excuse if developers develops something platform free (or no integrated into any windows middleware) this thing wont be a issue, its laziness and bad programing im pretty sure that windows messenger or msn messenger can be removed for south korea so theres no issues on there, no more lawsuits they save money, and they can tell the competition to STFU.
Again microsoft can just give "CHOICE" to everyone yeah its their OS but let me remove what i dont want. If they really want to play fair they give us an option to choose but that wont happen, and its true, i want to use firefox but i have to stay with ie, i want to use ICQ, but i have to stay with windows messenger or msn messenger, I want winamp or media player classic but i cant remove wmp.
basically they are not promoting a free market, free choice, free competition, using a monopoly to gain marketshare on another market its abusing their status power, its unfair and ilegal.
As usual we all pay for useless feature like windows messenger, wmp, oe, ie that makes windows expensive. thx to this bundling theres no competition and microsoft got lazy big example its ie that if its not because of firefox they wont even mind to make a new release.
Competition its good and microsoft dont want any so they can govern everything and people have no future choice if competition its destroyed ilegally -
#16.5 Posted by Ideas Man on 29 Oct 2005 - 14:45
- Yeah, because it's sooooo hard to install another one, and these days, having them installed takes up such a noticable portion of HDD space</sarcasm>
I hardly realise I have Windows Messenger installed, and I actively CHOOSE to use MSN Messenger, hell, I had ICQ and chose to use MSN Messenger when they first released it. -
#16.6 Posted by karmakillernz on 29 Oct 2005 - 21:41
- eilegz, I have the feeling you're not a developer. Reusing code and others' services isn't lazy - it's smart. Microsoft have known from the beginning that they had to make it easy to develop for Windows, and they've succeeded in that.
Having built-in services such as IE and WMP does not stop you from installing your own software. Users have always been able to install their own software and take over the associations so the appropriate files will always load in their software of choice.
Anyway, how exactly would you download Firefox without IE being installed? Would you use the built-in ftp.exe program? No, because that should be removed too, right? It's harming the ability to use another FTP client... right?
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#16.7 Posted by eilegz on 30 Oct 2005 - 23:00
- its easy to give choice and option to OEM anyways most computers now include many things because companies got deal with OEM but thanks to microsoft other companies cant take advantage of this, who its gonna sell a browser or media player when the one included in windows works, yeah of course u can download it and install otehr application but what if i dont want ie or wmp, let me choose what i can install and what not, its very simple and im pretty sure that people that use n-lite dont have any problems with many applications y services its just mere excuse as i said before.
From a consumer point of view its somehow good that everything comes with out of box but that promotes ignorance too, people dont want to try something else and others companies cant compete with this kind of degree. Also when competition its death microsoft just sit back and dun work and inovate on that software since they are the leader
Antitrust laws exist to protect choice and competition in the end we will suffer if everything becomes just microsoft and theres no other IM since msn or microsoft controls everything. in my case i just cant use icq when everyones use that crappy useless and worthless msn messenger.
Im not against making things easier but make it right make it optional, and dont force anyone to stick with their programs even if we dont want it..
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(1 reply)
#17 Posted by Hottoast on 28 Oct 2005 - 18:08
- Good for Microsoft, I hope they pull it.
Its Microsoft's OS, they should be able to do what ever they want to it, with out haveing some big group bitch and moan about it.
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#18 Posted by mr_demilord on 28 Oct 2005 - 18:45
- MS p0wnz.
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#19 Posted by DJ Specs on 28 Oct 2005 - 20:34
- I do think the solution to all this, would be to give users the option when installing, to install these various components. Easy fix.
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#20 Posted by MOGua on 28 Oct 2005 - 20:50
- Sheds some new light on MS vs. Google:
MS pulls out of a country, and the people go "WTF, now I gotta pirate Linux? What the hell is that?"
Google pulls out of a country, and the people simply sing: "Yahoooooooo!"
Google still got a long way to go; the amount of influence Google has on people's lives world-wide is abysmal. The only impact Google will have if they dissappear overnight is on its stock-holders.
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(1 reply)
#21 Posted by NetRyder on 28 Oct 2005 - 21:28
- About time they took a strong stand and told these antitrust commissions to shove it.
Everyone knows how successful Windows XP "N" was in the EU. Nobody needs more time and resources to go into yet another useless effort because some random organization feels the need to throw its weight around. -
#21.1 Posted by Manksgloob on 28 Oct 2005 - 21:55
- Indeed.
(For those who don't know: http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?Edi...itorialsID=6972)
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(1 reply)
#22 Posted by AgentOrange on 28 Oct 2005 - 21:36
- Microsoft develops Windows, therefore they can stick whatever they want into the OS. If you don't like it, dont f***ing by it. Simple as that. Let them all go Linux, after a week of that crap they will be begging M$ to come back.
Don't believe me? Try installing any decent Linux Distro on a SATA RAID, you will make love to your XP CD after that. -
#22.1 Posted by Xerxes on 29 Oct 2005 - 02:22
- I agree, it is MS's OS and they can do whatever they want with it...if you don't want it don't buy it But with the rampant piracy in South Korea (going by what others are saying in previous posts) even if MS did agree to the Koreans demands most of the people there will still pirate it anyway...unless the Koreans can seriously crack down on piracy..MS should just pull out entirely...
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#23 Posted by Quick Reply on 29 Oct 2005 - 00:30
- What's the point when the majority in South Korea already pirate Windows, and there would be more pirates if there is a feeling that they get less if they get it legally. South Korea isn't in such a position to make these demands like the EU is unless they effectively tackle piracy.
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#24 Posted by eilegz on 29 Oct 2005 - 02:56
- i think that m$ should pull windows out fromn south korea its not a big market also people there dont care they just go and download and pirate windows that would be a good thing for koreans at least...
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(1 reply)
#25 Posted by metro on 29 Oct 2005 - 04:36
- Eh, the funny thing is I don't see really how IE, WMP, or Windows Messenger makes it hard for companies to compete. People either use it, or they don't. What ever happened to the ability to decide what you do and do not want to use?
The South Korea market isn't anything for MS to worry about losing. I do know one thing, I wish I could stab the person in the face with a rusty icepick who invented and started using "M$" because it is so damn stupid and pointless. -
#25.1 Posted by SquareSoft0 on 29 Oct 2005 - 06:51
- I find that post offensive for mocking others' religions.
Just kidding, I hope.
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(2 replies)
#26 Posted by rIaHc3 on 29 Oct 2005 - 07:27
- Bill Gates should send a damn e-penis to all these organizations with a little Microsoft Powerpoint presentation saying "Blow Us"
Dont like Bill Gates' stock/money? Then invent something better yourself. -
#26.1 Posted by mr_demilord on 29 Oct 2005 - 08:34
- Exactly what I was thinking,
But I also think ms shoots in their own feet, becuse if they can't buy it they will get a pirated copy.
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(1 reply)
#27 Posted by balupton on 29 Oct 2005 - 13:06
- All the people saying that they would just go and use another OS, that would cost millions and millions of dollars to convert their software/databases etc to work, and training the employees.
M$ could probably get sued for another thing for doing that but hey its a smart move, as long as they have good lawyers.
And if Korea did start using other OSs the they would eventually sue those OSs as well, and then those manufacturers would do M$s step and withdraw and they end up with only pirated or overseas copies of OSs.
Would be interesting to see.
And all the people saying if they cant get it, theyll just get a pirated copy.
Seeing that 90+% of windows installations are pirated, and that M$ are having to pay billions of dollars it would actually be more cost efficient if they did cut windows from korea.
Yer I fully support the idea, abuse it and lose it.
And back to the monopoly issues, i dont really see how including WMP inside windows makes Real have a disadvantage, if the people like Real they'll use Real, if they dont they'll use something else, its not like windows is saying you cant install any other media player.
They should be gratefull they are making millions/billions of dollars from software that M$ allows them to create for their platform -
#27.1 Posted by eilegz on 30 Oct 2005 - 23:05
- well it does because some people wont even know what its real when wmp can do everything, yeah with that in place how its gonna real and others compete i cant find the answer even opera quit selling its browser because theres no profit in it the only one making profit of each market areas its microsoft since they sell windows with ie, and everything of course if they remove it and sell it cheaper that would be a good choice for customers and competition will be restored
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#28 Posted by Webgraph on 29 Oct 2005 - 15:55
- Why does Micros*it have to act like a bunch of whiny babies? But hey, Apple's Mac OS X includes QuickTime, Safari, and iChat by default, among other things. However, I haven't seen the actual installation process of Mac OS X, so I couldn't judge that. Had Apple let other computer vendors such as Dell include OS X with their computers, Micros*it would really be forced to improve their software or risk losing out completely! Then again, as balupton said, that would only result in South Korea in ganging up against Apple as well!
But yes, I agree that Micros*it should be forced to include options on uninstalling Windows Messenger (you need an external command to do this in XP), Internet Explorer, and Windows Media Player. So my hat's to the South Koreans on this one.
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(1 reply)
#29 Posted by Darkinspiration on 29 Oct 2005 - 16:29
- on a mac you can choose to uninstall quicktime, ichat, safari, and they stay uninstalled. same for any linux distro. you can remouve stuff you don't want. for some reason you can't on windows. the uninstall command only hide application.
Hek msn messenger dosen't even call firefox witch is the default browser, it call IE even do it's uninstalled.
microsoft apps are not playing well with the competition. You can't even use windows update with another browser. (Yes i know about autoupdate)
Like it or not having a monopoly gives microsoft some responsability other do not have. and as log as microsoft does not understand this gouvenements sue
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(1 reply)
#30 Posted by balupton on 29 Oct 2005 - 17:07
- Webgraph ->
"on uninstalling Windows Messenger"
you can uninstall messenger, ie, and wmp (through add/remove windows components) but ur still left with the api because it is used by thousands of applications out there.
And about apple, i think they are a serious monopoly (if i believed in monopoly), because if you want a mac, u have to buy it from apple, if you want to upgrade or customize your computer you just cant go to your local computer shop and buy a new mb, hd, etc etc (correct me if im wrong)
The lack of API for apple related products eg. the iPod.
As far as i can see apple is horrible for developers, as for m$ they document everything, and support developers - MSDN
(yer im not bashing mac or windows, but i do believe that most people who use one OS bash the other one(s) because they dont know how to do something)
Darkinspiration->
"Hek msn messenger dosen't even call firefox witch is the default browser, it call IE even do it's uninstalled. "
Actually for the mail it calls up ur default mail client and for me its gmail inside firefox.
"You can't even use windows update with another browser. "
That is not m$s fault, it is the others browsers fault as they cant run the required controls needed for the update. And then you would have newbs ringing up m$ saying autoupdate doesnt work etc etc.
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(1 reply)
#31 Posted by Neomac v6 on 30 Oct 2005 - 01:44
- The South Korean standard of living would instantly rise if Windoze was pulled!
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#32 Posted by Adequate on 30 Oct 2005 - 19:41
- To 31.1: Don't finger-point em either!
The comments come as Korea's Fair Trade Commission prepares to rule whether Redmond, Washington-based Microsoft's inclusion of its Media Player and MSN Messenger programs into Windows unfairly makes it difficult for rivals to compete. A ruling is due by this year, according to the antitrust watchdog.
If regulators order "Microsoft to remove code or redesign Windows uniquely for the Korean market, it might be necessary to withdraw Windows from the Korean market or delay offering new versions,'' Microsoft said in its earnings report yesterday.
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