Windows Vista Beta 2 Delayed?
Posted by Hurmoth on 10 November 2005 - 23:10 · 69 comments & 30694 views
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#1 Posted by Lasker on 10 Nov 2005 - 23:59
- I will say again, Microsoft development process sucks
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(2 replies)
#2 Posted by mohan_168 on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:08
- time constraint = skip one RC build = gold version having lots of known issues / bugs <nothappy>
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#2.1 Posted by theyarecomingforyou on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:17
- Exactly... Microsoft operating systems are always great for the first year or so and then spiral out of control as they become exploited - anything that removes a quality check will result in a greater chance of another Blaster. Hopefully the new features they put in will make up for the 'potential' of it being an insecure/unstable product.
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#2.2 Posted by threedaysdwn on 11 Nov 2005 - 05:17
- They won't release Vista until it's ready. This isn't bad news for the quality of Vista (to some extent, it's good news. Since many thought that reaching "Beta 2" quality in December wasn't going to happen).
But it's not a good sign for the (unannounced) release date.
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(9 replies)
#3 Posted by
voidunknown on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:13
- Well, thats fine with me. Take your time Microsoft. Do it right. Don't rush it out the door like ALL of your other software. I can wait a few more months for a MUCH better/stable product.
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#3.1 Posted by Mr. Dee on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:18
- Agreed! If this is true, I say all the better, rushing it won't help make it a great release. The Community Technology Previews each month should suffice for the time being.
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#3.2 Posted by Hurmoth on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:21
- I think Vista will be the best OS Microsoft has ever put out because of the CTPs. The more people that is able to see the product before the general public does, the more bugs that will be found and fixed. I think Microsoft has done a great job by doing this and it will be appreciated in the end!
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#3.3 Posted by voidunknown on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:25
- I totaly agree with you. I was just saying I don't want them to rush it. If they take their time, they can get it right. It's not like Vista is going to solve world hunger or poverty. There is no reason to rush it.
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#3.4 Posted by leojei on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:28
- while I'm perfectly okay about the push back Beta2 is getting, but I'm concerned about the skipping 1 RC part. As I recall, there are RC0 and RC1 planned, if one of them is gone then we're gonna have 1 RC only?!?!?~ I personally don't think that's a good plan.
I agree that monthly issue CTPs are good, instead it's outstanding. At the testers get to use the latest bits with bugs fixed and such (instead of reporting bugs that are known for months and are well-known). -
#3.5 Posted by voidunknown on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:31
- Good point. They shouldn't leave out an RC. That can be bad.
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#3.6 Posted by boogerjones on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:47
- Has history taught you guys nothing? MS could delay Vista for 10 years and there would still be bugs and security holes for long after it is released. They need to be confident that what they release is solid, but to suggest this will reduce the number of holes/bugs in the final product is off the mark.
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#3.7 Posted by Harper on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:02
- "Take your time, Microsoft?"......it'll be 5 years, and more likely 6 between XP and Vista. That's a little (I really mean alot) too long. Billions of dollars at their beckoned call, tons of great? developers, and, it takes them THIS long to get it out the door? And now, this delay.....Geeez Louise.
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#3.8 Posted by Boz on 11 Nov 2005 - 03:25
QUOTE I think Vista will be the best OS Microsoft has ever put out because of the CTPs. The more people that is able to see the product before the general public does, the more bugs that will be found and fixed. I think Microsoft has done a great job by doing this and it will be appreciated in the end!
I agree with you that code quality and the new project organization will definitely improve Vista. Before they coded pieces then merged them and then we had Beta releases and RCs. When you have one big pile of code it's hard to spot all bugs, this new workflow will definitely make sure that there are less bugs even if we don't have all of the scheduled RCs.
I just think that Vista will be better no matter what. Anything is better then Windows right now. Windows XP works great when you have a limited amount of applications installed. Once you install a lot of apps that's where the hell with memory management, registry and dlls begins.-
#3.9 Posted by Jugalator on 11 Nov 2005 - 07:43
QUOTE MS could delay Vista for 10 years and there would still be bugs and security holes for long after it is released. They need to be confident that what they release is solid, but to suggest this will reduce the number of holes/bugs in the final product is off the mark.
Just because a release would have flaws at release, doesn't mean a release 10 years later than another wouldn't have less, and less serious flaws. What you're saying, that it won't reduce the number of bugs, doesn't make sense. Assuming they spend this time fixing their bugs, of course.
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(13 replies)
#4 Posted by Zolk on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:17
- Another freakin' delay? I'm glad I switched to a Mac.
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#4.2 Posted by voidunknown on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:22
- You switched to a Mac? And you are complaining about Windows Delays? Bass Ackwords much? Apple puts out a new OS once a decade.
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#4.3 Posted by leojei on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:29
QUOTE Apple puts out a new OS once a decade
watch ppl will argue that Panther and Tiger are new OS
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#4.4 Posted by aristotle-dude on 11 Nov 2005 - 01:08
- Neither is Vista. It has plenty of legacy in it including support for Win32.
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#4.6 Posted by Harper on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:09
- Me, too. I was/kinda still am a Windows fan, but, guys Apple is where it's at right now. No spyware, trojans, viri, etc. That was why I finally had to make the switch and buy an iBook. Until MS can put out a stable product, I have no choice....Still am a Windows/MS fan....
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#4.7 Posted by RobertH on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:38
- Good point, Apple didnt need to release an entirley 'new' product to get features that Windows will get sometime 2000-and-never. I wonder how long it will be before Vista's release and the first Service Pack.
I read the post about Visual Studio and the buggyness therein. I hope this does not happen to Vista.. although i should cos it would be funny and aparentley if you own a Mac your a 'FanBoi'
When Vista arrives to match 'Tiger', Apple will be ready with Leopard to make it look ancient.
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#4.8 Posted by mufdvr3669 on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:43
- Wow, sign me up for a mac. I mean, I too want to overpay for average hardware while being able to play macs new games 2 years after they come out on a pc.
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#4.9 Posted by Smigit on 11 Nov 2005 - 04:54
QUOTE guys Apple is where it's at right now. No spyware, trojans, viri, etc 
I mean, its nice you guys like your Mac but its alot easier to develop software when your the only company producing the hardware ect. Windows is a whole different field and thay have to deal wit hthe fact there is 100's of companies making hardware for the platform. As for security, anyone with common sense can secure windows. It has its problems but more often than not the problem is the person opperating the keyboard (not really an excuse since the user shouldnt be able to poo up their system but thats how it is)-
#4.10 Posted by LTD on 11 Nov 2005 - 06:11
- Just for future reference, the plural for "virus" is "viruses", not "viri."
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#4.11 Posted by RobertH on 11 Nov 2005 - 17:36
- Yes mufdvr3669, because people who buy Power Mac G5 Quad's do so just to play Doom and Quake
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#4.12 Posted by sphbecker on 11 Nov 2005 - 20:15
QUOTE Apple didnt need to release an entirley 'new' product to get features that Windows will get sometime 2000-and-never
I actually feel the same way about Apple. Yes, they have a few novelty features that Windows XP does not, but nothing substantial from my point of few. (I am administrate computers for a large corporation so my point of few is a little different then the average home user). To the contrary, I have a Mac running OS 10.3 and find it in many ways primitive when compared to XP. Granted, I use a computer differently then some, but from my point of view Apple's OS is behind Windows in more impotent ways then Windows is behind Apple.-
#4.13 Posted by kronix2 on 15 Nov 2005 - 11:22
QUOTE Apple puts out a new OS once a decade.
I don't like to defend Apple, but I need to point out two things:
1) Each OSX release is equivalent to a new Windows release.
2) Using your logic, by the time Microsoft release Vista, it will have been 7 years since they've released a new OS. Windows 2000/XP/2003 are based around the same code.
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(3 replies)
#5 Posted by parhamreza on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:26
- Microsoft should take its time, but it amazes me that it has taken it so long considering all of the resources Microsoft has. This Vista better be pretty damn revolutionary.
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#5.1 Posted by leojei on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:31
- well, if I'm right, MS took a major detour of what they should build into Vista for like a year. They dumped the entire 4xxx alpha build series and start with 5xxx ones early this year. It's like they had no line of sights before and things get more clearer now. It's a good sign~
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#5.2 Posted by TRC on 11 Nov 2005 - 03:40
- Microsoft does have a lot of resources, but that might be part of the problem. There's an old saying, something about too many chefs in the kitchen...
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#5.3 Posted by sphbecker on 11 Nov 2005 - 20:38
- People almost seem to forget about WinFX!
Vista represents two big changes, an updated UI and WinFX; out of the two WinFX is MUCH bigger, however something that end-users will not see right away. WinFX is a new platform which will change the way programs are written for the next 10 years. It is Microsoft's major goal in Vista; they want to get the UI right, but that is the 2nd priority.
If WinFX is successful then users will enjoy a new generation of WinFX era applications which are basically better in every way. WinFX puts more power in the developer's hand and at the same time makes it easier and faster to produce quality products. Whatever they end up calling Windows 6.1 (the minor point release after Vista) will probably blow you away when it comes to UI. This will be the release where MS goes back to brings the full power of WinFX to the desktop in the form of advanced end-user tools and features.
PS, as for the delays, remember what happened back in 2003. Longhorn was originally going to be Windows 5.3 with Blackcome being the big 6.0. Windows 5.3 basically got scrapped in favor of XP SP2. MS got hit hard by the Blaster and put all efforts into fixing the problems that allowed that to happen.
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#6 Posted by Kushan on 11 Nov 2005 - 00:28
- Well this is good, I can't wait to install Vista now, only to find I have to patch it right away because it's full of a bunch of bugs that should have been fixed.
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#7 Posted by neostyle on 11 Nov 2005 - 01:23
- hahahahaha .........
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(2 replies)
#8 Posted by dp123 on 11 Nov 2005 - 01:48
QUOTE “We are on schedule and committed to...
No, you're not.-
#8.1 Posted by mram on 11 Nov 2005 - 14:57
- You are missing the context.
"We are on schedule to release on the same day we were and committed to..."
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(2 replies)
#9 Posted by h3kt1c on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:06
- Thurrott is a dumbass, take his words with a grain of salt.
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#9.1 Posted by Hurmoth on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:26
- What are you talking about? What has he been wrong about concerning Vista?
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#9.2 Posted by Lamerz4391 on 11 Nov 2005 - 23:33
- P3nis envy? You seem quite bitter about Thurrott. Actually, I've found that he gets quite a bit right. There's no denying he has good access within MS.
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(3 replies)
#10 Posted by pickleman on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:07
- you ppl complaining make me laugh.
What's it matter? Are you hurting that much that you need Vista right now?
If you have that many issues with Xp maybe it's time you switched OS's and quit the complaining -
#10.1 Posted by mufdvr3669 on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:45
- No, no problems with XP trollie mctroll. Nobody said anything about having problems with XP, not a single one, I go days without rebooting, crashing, and months between spyware or viruses. Just cause you don't have any problems doesn't mean you can't wish or want more.
Last edited by 10676 on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:52 -
#10.2 Posted by TRC on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:54
- Wow pickleman, imagine people on a Windows enthusiast site looking forward to the first new version of Windows in four years, and being disappointed about the repeated delays. I guess their XP computers must all be broken like you say. It couldn't have anything to do with them just being eager for a new version of Windows. Switching OS's sure sounds like the answer though. Oh wait, isn't that why we're waiting for Vista?
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(10 replies)
#11 Posted by warwagon on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:51
- everyone that is having a female dog fit about this delay, I just ask, uh...... what exactly is wrong with Windows XP
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#11.1 Posted by mufdvr3669 on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:53
- nothing
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#11.2 Posted by TRC on 11 Nov 2005 - 02:59
QUOTE I just ask, uh...... what exactly is wrong with Windows XP
Oh my god, you're right! There isn't anything wrong with XP! Have you let Microsoft know about this? You've got to contact them right away so they can cancel Vista. There is obviously no need or demand for it. Thank goodness, it's just too bad you didn't come along sooner. There was probably no need for Windows 95 either.-
#11.3 Posted by altecxp on 11 Nov 2005 - 03:13
- Personaly I just want Vista for security, if you want a new OS just fro eye candy go to OSX, I prefer a OS that has functionality b4 form.
TRC: name one huge impact that Vista will accomplisht that is not in some form capable in XP? Not realy anything. -
#11.4 Posted by TRC on 11 Nov 2005 - 03:19
- Name one huge impact that Windows 98 accomplished that was not possible in 95. Name a major advancement in XP that couldn't have been just as easily added to Windows 2000. Microsoft is a software company, they can't stick with one product forever. Just because people are looking forward to Vista doesn't mean they think XP is garbage. Vista will have a lot of nice new features, it's a big upgrade over XP and of course there is the much improved security. You might call that nothing but I wouldn't.
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#11.5 Posted by dagamer34 on 11 Nov 2005 - 04:07
- Umm.. Windows XP is pretty darn stable. The thing about Windows getting all the viruses is simply because people are stupid enough to click on random links and download obvious spyware.
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#11.6 Posted by TRC on 11 Nov 2005 - 04:28
- When did anyone say XP wasn't stable? Once again, just because people are looking forward to Vista, that doesn't mean they think XP isn't any good.
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#11.7 Posted by warwagon on 11 Nov 2005 - 05:30
- I don't think anything isd wrong with XP I was just wondeing why some people are moaning and groaning about the delay, its out when its out, whats the rush
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#11.8 Posted by TRC on 11 Nov 2005 - 05:37
- Like I said, some of us are really into this type of thing and look forward to each release. To some a computer is just a tool to do work with. Me, I install operating systems for fun. Linux, OS/2, Solaris, BeOS...I try every one I can get my hands on. So I'm very eager to see Vista released.
After so many years and delays one can't help but get impatient.
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#11.9 Posted by Jugalator on 11 Nov 2005 - 07:35
QUOTE Name one huge impact that Windows 98 accomplished that was not possible in 95
- Internet Connection Sharing. Suddenly easy NAT'ing for home users came to Windows, something we today take for granted when settings up home networks.
Some more important ones:
- DVD playback.
- Improved AGP support.
- Superior USB drivers.
- Support for multiple monitors.
QUOTE Name a major advancement in XP that couldn't have been just as easily added to Windows 2000.
Well there's for example P4 HyperThreading support, but the biggest one is probably a tweaked WoW (Windows on Windows) layer for much better application backwards compatibility and e.g. game support than Windows 2000.-
#11.10 Posted by TRC on 12 Nov 2005 - 02:21
- Are you really trying to say they couldn't have added these features to Windows 95 and 2000 through service packs? Because they certainly could have, but it wouldn't have been good business. But if you are going to quote new features to support your opinion then look at all the new features Vista is going to have. Case closed.
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#12 Posted by mayamaniac on 11 Nov 2005 - 04:04
- Like any OS, the first version will suck. And then the next update will make it stable and usable. OSX is a good example of that, 10.0 sucked, 10.1 stable. And Vista has a lot of new features and surely not everything will work propertly on the first release. But the sooner they put it on store shelves, the sooner people can buy it and then bitch about all the things wrong with it so that MS can fix it.
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#13 Posted by Andy13 on 11 Nov 2005 - 04:29
- I think Microsoft is making a smart move - Dec 7th is too soon to work into all the supposed "goodies" and the interface isn't close to completion, from what I've heard.
I just hope Microsoft won't postpone the delivery of the final Windows Vista.
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#14 Posted by cold-peak on 11 Nov 2005 - 06:40
- once again, not supprised
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#15 Posted by xxhiroshi21xx on 11 Nov 2005 - 07:22
- Aw..damnit..there goes Paul again, pulling information out of his ass.
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#16 Posted by ChaosBlade on 11 Nov 2005 - 10:06
- I think MS are on the right track here. We will get a better beta2 with more issues fixed and more stable features. I dont mind waiting a few months more or less to get a product that wasnt rushed through the door.
On a side note, Paul has always been correct throughout his longhornvista articles. I dont see why it should be different now, But lets just wait and see.
Vista is going to be an awesome operating system, from all accounts. People bashing me might need to read on the technology behind and not the glass UI you can see from screenshots.
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#17 Posted by indiehead on 11 Nov 2005 - 10:34
- god, all this talk, 'troll', 'fanboy', etc. etc. etc.
lighten up people, it's only a bloody piece of software and by the sound of it most people don't like it anyway, alas as the company you work for probably runs it you've got no choice.
please calm down you lot, you'll burst a blood vessel too soon.
as a closing comment, i'm running XP (work) and OSX (home), there's reasons i did this and it's just to make my life easier, you can do a lot in XP but when your back from work OSX is quicker to get jobs done if you've got only one eye open.
I'm also supporting stuff with Linux, 98 SE (still!), ME, 3.11 (why?) and god knows what else for my friends, it's sometimes hell but always rewarding.
have fun people, i'm off to the slopes.
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#18 Posted by indiehead on 11 Nov 2005 - 10:36
- ...and if anyone gives me a blackberry for christmas i'll staple them to the floor and hurl on the screen
i just want a cookbook, an ample supply of groceries, a cooker and time to make something truly iffy.
then order take-out and claim i made it, ;-)
Last edited by 69948 on 11 Nov 2005 - 10:43
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(2 replies)
#19 Posted by MellonCollie on 11 Nov 2005 - 10:39
- Someone wake me up when Vista's released; I'm going back to bed.
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#19.2 Posted by Lamerz4391 on 11 Nov 2005 - 23:35
- Good, less comments of this ilk to pour through ...
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(1 reply)
#20 Posted by Ryster092 on 11 Nov 2005 - 12:06
- Guys, please read the details of the article. They are not delaying the release of vista. They are merely putting back one of the internal testing milestones by a month or two. The testing time is not being reduced, they are merely shifting around internal milestones. Try not to sensationalise this "rumour" any further please.
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#21 Posted by MMaster23 on 12 Nov 2005 - 08:57
- People shouldn't whine so much about the release date. I think it's a good thing that Microsoft is taking it's time. The company I work at is an system builder (yes, Microsoft Partner) and I don't want 10000 people coming back with their PC because internet explorer can't download files (Windows Longhorn Beta anyone?)
Well offcourse that was beta but it's only an example. I don't want any major flaws in the brand new OS. Microsoft is doing great with their shedule. Other companies are messing it up big time and ppl keep yelling at MS ?? Anyone remember Gabe Newell of Valve?
Btw whining Mac users: Go f*ck yourself (no offence). Apple hardly ever update their OS. They put in an search field at the right top of your screen. Call it great, show off with their launch show and ask people around 50USD for an upgrade. I don't know about you but I find 50 dollars for an search box a bit much. Google Desktop/MSN Desktop search anyone ?? TCO around 0 dollar ?
They admitted Mac OS X runs 10x better on an Intel CPU then an PowerPC one. Go figure. All this time they were messing it up on the IBM stuff.
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#22 Posted by gliscameria on 15 Nov 2005 - 16:40
- I hope they put it off for years.
I like having the version of windows they actually support. =)
Thurrott’s sources also noted that the company is still on track for shipping Vista late 2006 stating, “We are on schedule and committed to shipping on time and ensuring a high-quality product. Microsoft sets internal targets for the development team around milestones, but these are not commitments to specific dates. We do not comment on these internal milestones and we have not announced a specific timeframe for our next major Windows Vista milestone.”
There is no current information whether the delay will affect related products, expected to be released around the same time as Windows Vista Beta 2, Internet Explorer (IE) 7 Beta 2 and Windows Media Player 11 Beta 1, both of which were originally scheduled for a December 7 public release.
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