Neowin.net

how is this beating? What Sony has done is unacceptable by any standards.

True, but since it removes the rootkit it could be said that Microsoft is providing a means to allow it's users to circumvent copy protection. It's possible.

But extemely unlikely. After all, Sony broke the Windows EULA by compromising the security of the operating system at a root level and altering Microsoft's proprietary software. Microsoft is attempting to ensure that that doesn't happen as a protection of a) its code and b) it users which it is entitled to do regardless of any "nose-out-of-joint"edness this may cause a third party. And a good thiing too. Any software that alters the fundamental operation should be classified as "Malicious Software", which includes any so-called acceptable ownage by a major corp. in the guise of "protecting the artist" (bollocks)

I'm guessing that Sony have asked Microsoft to do this for them, to try and clean up their mess without to much fuss.

I ment profitwise (Thats automatic)
Console wise (EG: MS is delivering while Sony isnt...)

This IMO is more over the console war....MS just wants to get more and more fans for their console.

Sneaky

What are you talking about? This has nothing -- absolutely NOTHING -- to do with consoles. Sony BMG and Microsoft Windows division are two separate companies from Sony Computer Entertainment and Microsoft Game Studios.

rIaHc3, I hope you're joking because you are hilarious.

To think this has anything to do with the console wars is a little far-fetched IMO.

I believe that there might be a little criminal/civil issue going on here. Would it not be funny, after all the measures which Sony and the music industry took against individuals for copying and then turned around a placed a malicious code onto unsuspecting legal purchasers of their music, if the tables were turned!!!!!!

Is there any on the forum who is a resident of the state of Georgia. Please reply!

Well for me this does apply to consoles. I have always bought sony products but after this stunt I never will again. So they did lose a loyal customer in me and microsoft just gained one.

Yeah, they're screwed!

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Yeah, they're screwed!

Don't know if they are screwed, but at least a damage to their reputation has been done

And I am thinking that their reasoning, "that the rootkit could be used for malware purposes" is a bit weak. After all, the same could be said about ActiveX.

I think it is good that they are providing a removal tool, though. Don't get me wrong.

ActiveX is not hidden. Its possible to detect and remove it.

The copy protection remains on the disk. Removing the software used to run it shouldn't remove the protection.

exactly MS is not bypassing security so they can illegally copy the cds or decrypting anything, so it should be fine

Installing a virus on a computer system is likely also against the law in many countries. Sony is in violation of the law IMO.

Unless Sony cleans up its act and stops its Content division (movies, music) from including this crap and colluding with its electronics division with unfair restrictions (see MiniDisc player for one), then I will continue my Sony boycott. That and they're using increasingly cheap components. Sony stuff for me lasts less as long as other products. Makes me wonder why they charge the Sony premium.

An open-source guy questioning ActiveX...how original!

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And I am thinking that their reasoning, "that the rootkit could be used for malware purposes" is a bit weak. After all, the same could be said about ActiveX.

Now here's someone who clearly doesn't understand the issue. Let's break down your comparison here:

Sony Rootkit

A secretly installed modification to the kernel environment that attempts to deceive the user by hiding the existance of malicious file and registry objects. It uses invisible proxy device drivers to intercept accesses to your CD drive. Attempting to remove it can render your PC unuseable, or leave your CD drive inaccessible.

ActiveX

A publicly documented API for building componentized applications. It was an evolution of the original OLE 2 technologies that were built on COM. A vast majority of Windows applications are built on ActiveX/COM.



Yeah, I could see how you could confused the two

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An open-source guy questioning ActiveX...how original!

Grow up.

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An open-source guy questioning ActiveX...how original!

My post clearly questioned the general blanket reason that was offered for the decision to target and remove the Sony DRM software.

Really, "it could be used for malware" applies to just about everything! I made no questioning nor disparaging remarks in regards to ActiveX, Windows, or Microsoft Corporation.

Now, relax a bit...

Lets try and stay civilized guys...

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My post clearly questioned the general blanket reason that was offered for the decision to target and remove the Sony DRM software.

But you didn't provide any basis for questioning why Microsoft is helping users to remove the rootkit. The original article never said that the reason was "because it could be used for malware purposes." That was added by the Neowin editor who posted the story.

The reason for removing it isn't because it "could be used for malware purposes" - but because it is by its very nature malware.

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The reason for removing it isn't because it "could be used for malware purposes" - but because it is by its very nature malware.

No. The DRM is being used by OTHER people's processes to hide themselves. It is a tool that is being used/abused.

DRM is not malware.

I'm no hater of Microsoft, in fact I'd say I like them somewhat... but isn't that statement going a bit too far?

Believe it or not, many people actually do purchase Windows. If it weren't for people like us, you pirates wouldn't have anything to steal.

Most likely, whatever you consider 10/10 from now on will be DRM encumbered. Good luck not getting this rootkit crap

What's that supposed to mean? Not that it matters but the rootkit itself was developed by a company in England.

Whether it was by Sony or not is irrelevant. The fact that Sony has licensed (which infers knowledge of what this DRM does) the rootkit from First4Internet should be outrageous enough.

For your information, this is a move on the part of Sony BMG, which is under the name of Sony, however remain a seperate branch devoted only to music.

Being anti-DRM is in MS's interest. MS wants Windows PCs to be the center of home entertainment. If companies like Sony cripple PCs with DRM people will start using other platforms and means. Hardware manufacturers are the same way; DVD burner sales, PC multimedia hardware sales would plummet if you weren't able to record DVDs anymore, or play them at full res on PCs.

Then look at the other side of it. Who makes standalone home theater systems, DVD players, etc? Sony. They don't want their hardware becoming obsolete either. You can bet they won't cripple their own hardware if PCs remain fully-functional.

Microsoft is not anti-DRM; that's not why they are removing this. It's only because of the dangerous way this particular software works and the serious risks it opens up.

As far as I'm aware, Microsoft isn't pro-DRM or anti-DRM. Microsoft is about choice. Choice for the content provider, and choice for the consumer.

I think that any disdain for restrictive licensing should be addressed to the content providers (for example, the RIAA), and not Microsoft. That is except of course for Microsoft's own software licensing. But I'd say that's a seperate issue entirely.

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Microsoft is about choice. Choice for the content provider, and choice for the consumer.

Lol, that made me laugh. Thanks.

No, Microsoft is far from being "about choice". That is why they have been sued for anti-trust more than once.

Microsoft is in this for their own self interest. Broken computers, whatever the cause, do not look good for Microsoft. This is especially true if the cause is due to a security hole. The Sony DRM presents a security hole and Microsoft aims to fix it.

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Lol, that made me laugh. Thanks. No, Microsoft is far from being "about choice". That is why they have been sued for anti-trust more than once. Microsoft is in this for their own self interest. Broken computers, whatever the cause, do not look good for Microsoft. This is especially true if the cause is due to a security hole. The Sony DRM presents a security hole and Microsoft aims to fix it.

What does "sued for anti-trust" mean exactly? Yes, 10 years ago Microsoft was found to be a monopoly (not necessarily a bad thing) and was bound by restrictions that prevent Microsoft from directly leveraging that monopoly to manipulate other markets.

But that has nothing to do with Microsoft's position on DRM technology.

You're right about why Microsoft is removing Sony's trash. Because it's good for Microsoft's customers. Because doing things that are good for the customer will only help Microsoft.

However, my comment about Microsoft's position on DRM (that Microsoft supports choice for both content providers and consumers) was in reference to the above 2 commentors who were discussing Microsoft's position on DRM, not the article itself.

And I stand by those comments. Microsoft provides content providers the option of restricting use through DRM. But they don't encourage or discourage them from doing it. Microsoft is also about choice for the consumer. That's why Microsoft's DRM platform can be licensed for use on any device or platform (unlike Apple's FairPlay, for instance).

It's in Microsoft's interest to make their DRM platform as flexible and pro-user as possible (while still appeasing the content providers). It's a difficult balance, since the interests of content providers and users are often not aligned.

I think Samsung has replaced Sony as the leader in quality consumer electronics. And they've certainly got plenty of good competition in other areas (PCs, game consoles, cameras, flash memory, etc).

But it's their media divisions (Sony BMG and Sony Pictures) that worry me. They're both part of industry conglomerates that seem to care very little for their consumers, with little or no competition to challenge them or keep them honest.

I don't own any of those, but that idea is great. Customers should demand it

Go, fanboy, go!

Knowing them, he probably got a promotion..

Hopefully he's still at Sony, heaven forbid he lands somewhere like the MPAA, RIAA or FCC ... /shudder.