The "Wall Street Journal" has obtained a confidential document sent from European Union (EU) antitrust regulators to Microsoft last month, warning the software giant that a release of its Windows source code would not meet the EU's requirements. Last week, you may recall, Microsoft announced with great fanfare that it would release portions of its Windows source code in a bid to meet its overdue EU antitrust requirements. Microsoft general console called the move "a bold stroke" when it was announced.
The Windows "source code was never asked for nor indeed welcomed," a British computer scientist wrote in a report describing Microsoft's botched attempt to meet European antitrust demands. You may recall that EU antitrust commissioner Neelie Kroes said she was "surprised" that Microsoft made the source code offer last week. Given this revelation, her comments can be put in perspective: She's surprised because the EU specifically told the company that a source code release would not meet its requirements.
News source: Wininformant
By doing that, they would create a major public uproar and maybe the courts would back down. I am getting sick and tired of this whole thing. If there is a better product, then come out. If not, let MS rule.
*political view - UK keep as much as your independancre as possible but still trade with europe
my only concern is that it will only helps pirated windows surface.
I really can't believe how iliterate some people are, not to mention biased and with total lack of common sense. So if a fanboy's company ignores justice system and this is okay, why do we have a justice system anyway then? I especially like the most retarded comment ever: "MS should stop selling products to EU". Kids, most money every country makes is from export. Simple. Europe is the largest market, so moving out of Europe means end of Microsoft. Simple. Well, since there is a rising OSS move going on Europe, MS moving out would only hurt themselves, competitive software is mostly on same or better level than MS products anyway. Simple. And if you don't believe me how important EU is, go look in history books why and when US got so rich, when did the rise begin. Little hints: WWII, Ford, hyperproduction, ... Less games, more reading, kids.
It is rather ridiculous to say Europe was the reason behind US's rise to power and domination. It is through the capitalist engine and economic imperialism that US got miles ahead of most of the world, at a time when Europe was trying to piece itself together after WWII.
Importance of EU as a trading block in the world context, well, remains a debatable issue, especially with the rise of Asian economies. But well, I digress.
456,953,258 people doesn't count? The EU is a growing market for Microsoft.
A large company such as Microsoft can not pull out of EU without digging its own grave.
They would have to fire thousands of employees and their profits would disappear.
Instant death... the US stockmarket would not be happy.
Why don't you stop trading with EU and China while you're at it?
The treaty under which China took control of Panama is full of holes so we can refuse to acknowledge and demand for fair bidding to be done on the canal unlike the one that happened a few years back where it was impossible for any company that was not Chinese to win and that would further cut of China's ability to raise an army.
don't mean to be petty but his made me lol.
They don't have to make a complete withdraw from the market. If the EU has a problem with their Windows OS, then they can simply not provide to the EU market. It may be crazy enough to work to get EU off their back and allow them to continue selling their software the way they want to make it.
But it is certainly a gamble. I'm sure they've considered this a number of times.
Shadrack: is MS takes out their OS, they can also take the rest, since all their products require Windows OS. Dumb idea, huh? And another thing...all the thinking like "EU would then back off...", do you REALLY think any country or union would let being blackmailed by some company, that is also being sued? Get real, any such attempt could get MS even banned. Not all courts let some lobbies and wealthy people control them.
So, this has nothing to do with Microsoft being anti-competitive and breaking business laws in the EU? It should be obvious by the amount of legal action in the US against Microsoft that they don't play by the rules and yet everyone decides to bash the EU when they decide to do something, which seems to be the "in" thing to do at the moment. I'd much rather Microsoft was liable for its actions than to be able to get away with anything, as seems to be the case in the US.
This isn't about the EU making money... this is about Microsoft making money unfairly. I'd have thought people would have realised that by now.
And what's the level playing field you're talking about anyway. Laws are there to ensure levelling, once MS broke them there's no fair competence anymore.
If this was about nothing but money, they would not have already granted MS several extensions. They have had reason for many months now to go ahead with the levy, and they would have money (and lots of it).
This of this scenario, MS pulls out of the EU and Bans the use if MS products and the Operating system itself in the EU. For every user caught using MS products after a certaing date the EU, not the offender, is charged 500 Million dollars. You really think piracy would come into the equation if the price of being caught was so high? not likely.
If you think for 2 seconds this isnt about money your a fool. This is about US companies trying to peddle their ****ty software in the EU and realizing that with MS dominating they have no chance. Its about market share people, Realplayer had none, so have the EU sue. Netscape had none, Sue. See the trend?
Doesnt take much to figure out that this is about money and nothing else. Telling yourself otherwise is damn stupid.
From what I understand, the European Union is rather strapped for cash at the moment.
There will be such a huge public uproar (I think), that the anti-trust will have to be withdrawn and MS will not end up losing anything. Plus get to keeps its dignity.
Oh my god it would be sooo fun to watch that.
Politicians are so well know for losing face well so they'll just agree with MS immediately.
</sarcasm>
Personally I couldn't care less to see MS leave the european market, good riddance I'd say.
Please Microsoft!
Right?
"*political view - UK keep as much as your independancre as possible but still trade with europe"
Political view: As other EU citizen (not UK) i would say that all of 25 members states are so small alone, that your "independece" is your path to becoming obsolete. We need block to defend our rights and our ways of living against huge economies such as USA and rising ones in east.
Where in Europe are you from? I'm living the Spanish dream at the moment (if there is such a thing), but from the UK originally. Europe rocks!
As one of these "ignorant and arrogant" Americans you are talking about, I must say that you ought not to stereotype and categorize a whole continent/country into a category, then proceed to use insulting and derogatory terms to refer to them.
->
Did not mean americans as whole, but ones sharing thease extremecapitalist views and try to degrade europes right to conrol its own markets.
Consolidating and defending are the key words in your original post, consolidate not expand. Keep doing that, and see EU get reduced to an inconsiderable pulp of a wanna-be power, economic and otherwise. It is clear who holds the reins of the world economy at this point in time. It is through legislations like these that EU wants to assert it's "power" and "influence". Jeez.
Yes, unfortunately MS was able to pretty much buy the officials deciding the case. The whole thing was basically a sham, what with them getting away with using doctored evidence and such. I hope the EU has better luck getting them to comply.
What impulses you to comment about things you dont know ??
Somebody should tell these people the difference between "source code" and "protocol documentation" ...
Just my 2p
What next, suing Epson or Canon coz you can't fit an HP cartridge in one of their printers? :-S
Unless MS are funding one of the above or Bill Gates is really America's No #1 most wanted leave them too it. There are better products out there that get used by people with enough sense to find them. For those users or companies who dont use something else thats their problem WTF does it have to do with the EU?
Anti trust my ass more like easy money.....
That's really insignificant. *sarcasm*
Everything has a price, that's why most cases like these are solved by bribes in US courts.
Pulling out of the EU would be a major blow to Microsoft. The EU is a huge market and they would lose it. Therefore, they will never pull out.
No, seriously: it is hard to believe they are not all the same.
1. if it wasnt for us you would be speaking German, TWICE!!.
Pretty damn good for something huh?
http://icadc.cordis.lu/fep-cgi/srchidadb?C...EN_RCN_ID:25039
according to this it'll take europe 50 years to catch up to the US of A :p
Last edited by seta-san on 03 Feb 2006 - 16:11
Anyway, what all this has to do with anything? I just said that this huge amount of arrogance is coming out of my ears.
Last edited by inkogn on 03 Feb 2006 - 20:47
Well, I don't know about you, but I can certainly deduce that anybody that gets within 100ft of said source would be under a strict, NDA. This is what MS wants. The API protocols wanted, OTOH, would not give anyone pause, nor MS any chance or excuse to be able to say 'Hey! You looked at our source! You can't use that code you're writing, cause we're sure there's some code like it somewhere in what you saw, and we're sure that's where you got it from!". Do you really not realize that seeing the source would be the exact opposite of having API documentation, in that one you can use, the other you can't due to NDA? With this, MS try to prevent people from writing software using the same protocols, which is actually the opposite of what the EU wants. Come on people, think instead of just reacting.
Just to say it out straight, plain and simple...
source code != API documentation.
Microsoft delivering the API documentation, as was originally requested, is the best solution.
And USA (or any country) can ask for full specification of european products? (for example the full data about Nokia... chineses bootlegs will be happy in put the hand over it).
Okay really? Microsoft's trampling through a rose garden. Sure, it smells great, lovely scene, and all the pretty flowers for the plucking, but watch those thorns!!
Ever since the introduction of the Euro most of your everyday items have increased in cost. Health care and social services are declining. The “strong” Euro is causing trade outside the EU to become increasingly harder on exports.
Germany alone has been cited with so many scandals on repackaged and remarked meat after its expiration date recently
France has had Riots all over citing police brutality
AEG Striking in Neurnberg
Today
Eur/$ 1,2147
New (fake) EU Law for comparison
"It is now Illegal for Men that do not wear glasses born on Dec 22 1960 at 13:00 GMT in Antarctica to own and drive a car."
I think most of you would agree that this would be insane law to pass but this is what they are doing ot MS. Now if they made EVERY company with network protocols to provide all the documentation this would be perfectly legal and fair albeit still a bit on the silly side
a rehash of my previous fake law
"It is Illegal for person who needs corrective lens to drive a vehicle without said corrective lens if they are required due to impairments in his or her ability to safely operate said vehicle" this should make a hell of a lot more sense to most of you for obvious reasons (albeit perhaps not the correct technical legal terms)
I am not saying everything is bad in the EU but they are not infallible. I am not going to claim the EU is anti American but they are taking a Enourmous amount of money from Microsoft by making laws that seem only to pertain to MS. Inasmuch it would appear that they are doing it only for the Money.
Tell me that the last EU ruling had more than a 1% impact on Windows XP purchases without the Media Player bundled. There is almsot NO ONE in europe asking for the version without and OEMs dont want to sell it either. Passing that law was really in the intrest of Joerge Consumer I tell you just be glad EU that you at least got money out of that deal too and caused MS to lose money forcing them to make a product that not even 1/5 of 1% of the population wants or cared about. Sounds like fraud waste and abuse to me any book of the day.
eX
p.s. I will not respond to any flames so personally attacking me in the aspirations of trying to upset is worthless but if you wish to waste your time go ahead. You are entitled to your opinion but I choose to ignore you. Please excuse any spelling errors or Gramtical errors. If I see them, I will attempt to fix them at my own leisure.
Edit fixed a spelling mistake only
Last edited by eXtermia on 01 Feb 2006 - 13:47
Looks like despising the EU is the cool thing to do nowadays, specially now that it's trying to stop you beloved Microsoft's (like it or not) unfair practices.
Guess what: Microsoft is abusing their near-monopoly in it's own contry too, which breaks US law. This isn't about an EU law specially crafted to pick on MS, it's just that out of the US and the EU, the latter is the only one that has what it takes to enforce the law.
Is this your whole argument? Ignoring the rant, it looks like it is. Well, it all boils down to the fact that *everyone else does*. I know of no other software company who knowingly wants to make their operating system less interoperable with other manufacturers software through the use of obfuscated API's.
The money that the EU wants is only symbolic for them.
By the way... the incidents in Germany and France are NOT the EU's fault, it's the domestic politics that's screwed.
MS bribes the US Government? Prove it. Link me a source that sais it happened because if you cant, then it didnt happen.
Talking **** is one thing but making **** up to make yourself look smart is pretty damn stupid.
Would sure like some links to resepctable sources that prove anything you pleople say.
MS bribes the US Government? Prove it. Link me a source that sais it happened because if you cant, then it didnt happen.
Talking **** is one thing but making **** up to make yourself look smart is pretty damn stupid."
Whats a "pleople"?
You know, it's pretty hard to find hard, fast evidence about things like this, like, things MS and the gov would prefer to keep in the dark. But regardless, I'm old enough to have lived through the whole MS story. I've also been a pretty hardcore geek for the last 20+ years, my best friends wife works for MS (and let me tell you, some of the stories she tells.. wow.. you just have no clue). I actually remember all this happening, and how outraged I was about it at the time. Judging by your responses, you are too young to remember the hoopla.
Oh, no, excuse me.. actually it was MS exercising its right of free speech by contributing lots of "unrestricted soft money" to the Republican party :/. Right.. whatever hehe.
Then again, their contributions did eclipse those of Enron's. I rekon they had a pretty good reason though
You ever stop to think that maybe you don't know every thing there is to know? Methinks your blinders are on too tightly.