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Judge Gives Green Light to Monopolization Suit Against Apple

malebolgia   on 10 February 2006 - 19:47 · 54 comments & 4498 views

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With all the hoopla of the video iPod and speculation that Apple was going to release a media center-style PC and switch to Intel chips, it seems that the media last September inadvertently – or knowingly – forgot to post the news (via Tera Patricks ) that Judge James Ware, of the U.S. District Court of Northern California, has found the plaintiff, Thomas Slattery, as having "met all requirements for asserting [Apple's iTunes + iPod] tying claim.

Noting that the complaint alleges Apple has an 80 percent share of the market for legal digital music files and more than 90 percent of the market for portable hard-drive digital music players." Moreover, Judge Ware has given the green light to Slattery to proceed with his monopolization claim under the federal Sherman Antitrust Act.

View: September 2005 Ruling
News source: eHomeUpgrade




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#1 s0nic69 on 10 Feb 2006 - 20:18
wow, i didnt think that their share of the music files and portable devices where that high.
(2 replies) #2 thetman on 10 Feb 2006 - 21:22
i dont understand how its a monopoly, there are competeing products for both the ipod and the itunes music store.

if its a monopoly because iTMS is the only download store that works with the ipod isnt that apple's choice to be selective

their so called closed system , in my opinion is better, when dealing with other stores such as napster, wlamart so on, you have to make sure your mp3 player supports "plays for sure"

if i'm missing something please help me understand what monopoly they are bringing up here.
#2.1 sphbecker on 14 Feb 2006 - 12:49
There is nothing wrong with having a monopoly. There problem is when you try to use your monopoly (or near monopoly in this case) to force your products on users or to lock uses into using only your products. The iPod only supports Apple's iTunes software and Apple's music store, and iTunes' DRM is only supported by the iPod.

So what that means is that if I start buying music on iTunes I am locked into only ever buying an iPod if I want to be able to use what I have bought. However, I am forced to buy from iTunes if I have an iPod.

This is very similar to Microsoft trying to force Windows users to use Internet Explorer a decade ago.

Yes, you are right, you have other choices, but when something becomes as popular as the iPod it is time to start playing far. Apple needs to allow companies like Napster and Microsoft to incorporate FarPlay into their music stores so they will work with the iPod and allow other manufactures like Creative and Sony to put FarPlay in their players so they would support iTunes bought music.. It would be nice if Apple just made the iPod "plays for sure" compatible, but that is probably too much to ask from Apple.
#2.2 JrDZ13 on 16 Feb 2006 - 23:33
^great post!
(4 replies) #3 XeroByte on 10 Feb 2006 - 22:33
same with Windows... like 80% market share(Desktop PCs) and Windows doesn't run on Macs and washing machines. Microsoft dropped WMP for Mac etc. *yawn*
#3.1 HawkMan on 11 Feb 2006 - 08:45
No, it's not the same.

MS does not sell computer hardware, nor is regular computers locked to only working on Windows.

and even if they where the comparison wouldn't work, as windows isn't a store you're locked too anyway, it's a one time purchase,

whereas:

buy and iPod? then you can only buy music from iTMS

buy music from iTMS? then you can only ever play it on an iPod


and how is that system better than Plays for Sure? if you buy music form any of the other stores, you can play it on ANY plays for sure MP3 player(the iPod could play Plays for sure music, Apple said so).

and if you buy a plays for sure MP3 player, you can buy music form any of the non iTMS stores.

in other words, with plays for sure you can choose between brans, you don't have a single mp3 player with low quality audio components to choose from. and you can buy music form any store and even mix.

so plays for sure gives you more options, and more competition amongs the hardware manufacturers.
#3.2 brianshapiro on 11 Feb 2006 - 23:55
do you even know the legal reasoning behind the monopoly suits for both Microsoft and Apple?

hint: it has nothing to do with who sells the hardware and who doesn't. so people should stop repeating that argument.
#3.3 fubarshibby on 12 Feb 2006 - 07:58
@HawkMan: No, you're not tied to iTMS if you purchase an iPod. You can purchase from anywhere else, import those downloaded files into iTunes, and you're good to go. You even refuted your own claim later on in your post as well.
#3.4 PacificAk on 15 Feb 2006 - 18:30
@fubarshibby: wow...!!! u r a real techie..!!

if u buy a protected (as in DRM'ed) song then u cannot import it into iTunes... & thus u r not good to go...
(2 replies) #4 Blackice on 11 Feb 2006 - 01:00
Well of course they want to break apple's slice of the pie. I find it strange though, because you could see the iPod as a portable iTunes extension. It's very clear that the iPod only takes AAC (and unprotected) audio files, from the specifications Apple publish.
#4.1 Jstphish on 11 Feb 2006 - 19:27
It plays unprotected mp3's as well.
#4.2 Darkinspiration on 12 Feb 2006 - 21:25
And itune can convert a wide range of format to mp3 and acc.

No really it's not much of an antitrust case.

(2 replies) #5 Leddy on 11 Feb 2006 - 04:59
This is exactly the same as Microsoft. I wonder why people don't see apple as having a monopoly, but they see Microsoft as having one.

It's the same concept- and if anything, the iPod is an even worse monopoly than Windows is.
#5.1 xxdesmus on 11 Feb 2006 - 22:30
How right you are about the iPod my friend ...down with Apple
#5.2 Miran on 12 Feb 2006 - 03:17
As soon as Apple starts giving iPods away for free, than they will be like Microsoft.
(2 replies) #6 aristotle-dude on 11 Feb 2006 - 05:51
So how do I purchase/play/sync DRMed WMA songs between my mac and some other device? I cannot because MSFT has refused to provide an interface for mac users so I was "forced" by MSFT to purchase an iPod.

Seriously, nobody forced me to buy an iPod and I bought one long before iTMS became available in the US let alone in my country of Canada.

If anything, MSFT encouraged a monopoly for Apple because they were trying so damn hard to keep everyone on windows by tying their services to windows alone.

Monopolies are not illegal. What is illegal is to attempt to maintain that monopoly through illegal means. Apple is not doing anything illegal and all they are doing is creating a product that people obviously want to buy.

Windows users have a choice. Maybe mac users should sue MSFT for shutting them out.

As a Canadian, I'd like to sue all the Americans making these lawsuits and the American educational system for turning out so many morons.
#6.1 HawkMan on 11 Feb 2006 - 08:47
plays for sure/WMA DRM is fully licensable, unlike certain other DRM's...

So why should MS make a player that works for you? Apple is fully capable of licensing WMA DRM and making a player capable of playing DRM'ed WMA files without having MS make it for them. MS doesn't have an obligation to make WMA players for all other OS' out there.
#6.2 aristotle-dude on 12 Feb 2006 - 04:01
Licensing does not create an obligation for Apple to support competing stores and technology. These WMA stores are exclusively windows. It up to the vendor or vendor's partners to provide support for any platform they would wish to compete on. It was stupid to not maximize your potential market. Apple did that by supporting windows in addition to OSX but MSFT missed out on an opportunity to compete head to head on both platforms.

If one looks at the early history of the market, you can see that mac users were more likely to purchase music through an online store. The initial sales to US mac users gave iTMS momentum to leap ahead.
(1 reply) #7 lammmetak on 11 Feb 2006 - 11:29
why is it monopying? Microsoft abuses there position. Apple does not. They just own every other company
#7.1 eilegz on 12 Feb 2006 - 05:12
agree its not that apple its killng competition with unfair tactics like Micro$oft
#8 Jstphish on 11 Feb 2006 - 19:31
I can see the issue: If I buy an iPod than the only protected music I can play is from the iTMS.
#9 aristotle-dude on 11 Feb 2006 - 19:53
I can also see the issue that if I bought music from MSN at work, I would only be able to use that music on my work PC and not my iPod or mac.

All issues go away for any store if you are able to burn to an audio CD.
#10 peacemf on 11 Feb 2006 - 20:39
fair enough that you cant use any other software etc, and the inability to play the music on or using other devices....
BUT

the only reason to why apple has the market is because they did the mp3 and the software well, while everybody is couldnt get the balance right (and still cant)...

i dont think that apple is abusing the market.....

(P.S. - im not an apple fan, i own creative, iriver mp3 players, hate apple! but you have to give them credit were its due!
#11 wulfshayde on 11 Feb 2006 - 23:20
Why are MSN, iTMS, Napster the only online music stores people seem to see.... or any other major American Corporate Whoredom shop. There are other alternatives out there that are much cheaper and work with all MP3 players.

Don't sue Apple because you're too much of a lazy turd to do your homework.
#12 DKAngel on 12 Feb 2006 - 03:43
if ya dont like it dont buy it, its the consumers choise , nobody forced u to do it
#13 cswadner on 12 Feb 2006 - 17:29
Oh here we go again...
(2 replies) #14 clotz2000 on 12 Feb 2006 - 17:58
I have an Idea. To stop Apple from controlling the digital music industry is to make a better product. If you fail to make better or more innovative products, then you will lose the market plain and simple. So until then quit crying about it and threatening Apple with gay lawsuits that you know you are going to lose.

~Clotz2000~
#14.1 MrCobra on 13 Feb 2006 - 10:56
The same could be said about companies complaining about MS. That's all it ever is these days...I can't compete with the big boys so we need to sue. I swear that most companies around today exist only to sue other to make money.
#14.2 roadwarrior on 14 Feb 2006 - 03:30
Unfortunately, MrCobra, you are wrong (as usual). Microsoft used illegal tactics (such as not allowing OEM's to ship competing products on their systems) to get where it is, this has been shown over and over again.
#15 thenewbf on 13 Feb 2006 - 02:52
Need money? Don't want to work? Sue!
(1 reply) #16 yudi_lks on 13 Feb 2006 - 05:17
Hahahhaa.. That was a good one
#16.1 Glassed Silver on 13 Feb 2006 - 13:24
and so true...
many people and companies do that...
i can tell you stories... omg

-fm
(1 reply) #17 necrosis on 13 Feb 2006 - 13:55
Don't like that you can only use your iPod with iTMS? Then don't buy a iPod.

Don't like that you can only play music you downloaded from iTMS in iTunes or a iPod? Then don't buy from iTMS.

ZOMG! I can't take my corvette off-road! Im gonna sue Chevrolet! This is the exact thing your saying if you 'demand' that iPod play WMA and other DRM formats. The unit was never designed to play other DRM's. IIRC Apple said early on it woulden't play DRM WMA. So why on earth did you go out and buy a iPod then bitch it won't play other DRM's?

Why is this so hard to understand? Also, Apple runs iTMS, and Apple owns iPod. They can damn well do whatever the hell they want with it!

I love how Apple becomes a "monopoly" just because they were the first ones to make a easy to use portable audio player and a easy to use online music store. The verry people that like Apple's iTMS and iPod are the ones sueing Apple over being "monopoly" are also the ones that "caused" the "monopoly".
#17.1 sphbecker on 14 Feb 2006 - 13:07
It is for those reasons I have not bought an iPod or music from iTMS. However, when you have a product as popular as the iPod it isn't good enough to say "well don't buy it if you don't like our methods." People buy the iPod because its a good player; you can't expect the average user to understand how DRM works before they buy their first player. All of those iPod owners shouldn’t be bound to buy music from iTMS, they probably didn't understand that limitation when they bought their player.

What would you say if Microsoft released an update for Windows that prevented the use of any media player other then theirs (or prevented OEMs from preinstalling any browser other then IE, hmm that sounds familiar)? Would you be saying “its their stuff, they can do as the please with it?” Or what if Apple announced that they would be dropping Windows support for iTunes and the iPod and that if you wanted to keep using your player and iTMS songs you should buy a Mac? Those two examples are no different then what Apple is currently doing.

I’m not saying Apple needs to embrace Microsoft’s DRM and playsforsure, they simply need to open up FarPlay and allow other companies to work with it if they wish (it would probably even be okay from them to charge a reasonable royalty for using it), and separate the iPod drivers from the iTunes software so that they could be install separately and work with any media center software.
(1 reply) #18 daveoc64 on 13 Feb 2006 - 14:21
To me this seems silly.

So it's illegal to have a successful product now?
#18.1 Fanon on 14 Feb 2006 - 02:14
Yep. It's been this way for a while. Everyone and their dog sues Microsoft; might as well sue Apple as well.
#19 shadowchaos on 13 Feb 2006 - 16:17
If you're not Microsoft.



Burrrn


Anyway, I think it's really silly to sue Apple because their products "only" work with the iTunes music store.

( I mean, if you're so desperate, just "acquire" mp3s using a different method or something. >:


Oh well, I'm off to sue Burgerking for making me fat and not putting a warning on their burgers that says they will indeed, make you fat.
(1 reply) #20 BGraceTFaith on 13 Feb 2006 - 18:23
For those who dont know, you can buy an iPod and never install iTunes and still have FULL functionality. You're not tied to the iTMS.

I use J River Media Center 11 and there latest update has added functionality for the iPod Video. About the only thing missing thus far is thumbnail support for videos. Outside of that, any files you buy from any store will import into Media Center 11 and will also auto-convert based on your settings whenever you sync your iPod with your library.

Not only that, but you can set it up to look and function almost identical to iTunes, only without that gawd awful iTunes skin.

So youre not bound to iTunes and iTMS.
#20.1 sphbecker on 14 Feb 2006 - 12:50
Yeah, and Apple tries to brake that with each new version of the iPod software.
(2 replies) #21 Galley on 13 Feb 2006 - 22:25
Tracks purchased from the RealPlayer Music Store will transfer to the iPod without any loss of quality.
#21.1 frogworm on 15 Feb 2006 - 20:20
any person with half a conscience would not buy anything from Real Media Inc.
#21.2 b_pizzle on 15 Feb 2006 - 21:04
@frogworm: lol nice! burn'd!
(1 reply) #22 Shadrack on 14 Feb 2006 - 15:47
Just because something is really popular doesn't mean it is a monopoly. A monopoly has to be able to control the market and the means of goods to the consumer. Apple has no way of controlling what its competitors put out nor can it limit what its competitors do or put out.
#22.1 sphbecker on 15 Feb 2006 - 00:12
I think you are missing the point. The point is that in the US it isn't legal to use a near monopoly potion with one product to coerce users to buy related products from you exclusively. This is very similar to the MS IE case years ago where MS tried to use its Windows monopoly to push IE on users. Apple is using its popular iPod to push the iTMS on people, or vice-versa.
#23 gabalicious on 16 Feb 2006 - 03:48
I personally would want itunes to have a couple of music stores like wmp. also if apple would support plays for sure that would be great so i cant simply pay monthly fee to napster and get all the songs i want. Another reason this would be good is that people wouldnt have to throw out there acc DRM songs if they get an mp3 player thats not ipod. i think this is a big issue since if someone buys thousands of songs from itunes they will have to buy ipods if they wanna keep their music library.

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