Symantec Report: Vista Code Contains Security Loopholes

(1 reply) #1 Ruciz on 20 Jul 2006 - 09:59

really though, when has microsoft ever shipped anything out the doors that was secure?? I think that comes after the 4th or 5th service pack. Guaranteed though that the WGA will be thick..

#1.1 dangel on 20 Jul 2006 - 13:40

When has anyone ever shipped a ground-level rewrite of an OS with no flaws?

Sure, MS didn't take security seriously in the past but they're blinking obsessed with it now, so there's a good chance Vista will be safer by design than XP (not that hard..) and that means Symantec can't sell you their super-duper-all-new-security-feature in the next version of NAV to bugger up our PCs.

(6 replies) #2 Foub on 20 Jul 2006 - 10:12

NAV 2006 is nothing more than bloatware.

#2.1 markjensen on 20 Jul 2006 - 11:23

That would have been relevant if this article was about NAV.

#2.2 shmengie on 20 Jul 2006 - 13:05

symantec IS nav, ya knucklehead.

#2.3 PCyr on 20 Jul 2006 - 13:49

http://www.symantec.com/product/index.jsp

Of all ~135 products on that list only 4 are NAV versions. Good job Shmengie, you were less than 3% right. Maybe you shouldn't go around calling people names if you have no idea what you are talking about.

#2.4 neufuse on 20 Jul 2006 - 14:28

Quote - PCyr said @ #2.3

http://www.symantec.com/product/index.jsp

Of all ~135 products on that list only 4 are NAV versions. Good job Shmengie, you were less than 3% right. Maybe you shouldn't go around calling people names if you have no idea what you are talking about.

*scratches head* i found a much higher number then that... all these products made by symantec are anti-virus apps..

Norton AntiVirus 2006
Norton AntiVirus 10.0 for Macintosh
Symantec AntiVirus for Handhelds
Norton SystemWorks 2006 (includes Anti-virus)
Norton SystemWorks 2006 Basic Edition
Symantec Client Security 3.1
Symantec Client Security 3.1 with Groupware Protection
Norton AntiVirus 2006 Small Office Pack
Norton AntiVirus 10.0 for Macintosh
Symantec AntiVirus 10.1 Business Pack
Symantec AntiVirus for Handhelds
Symantec AntiVirus 10.1 with Groupware Protection
Norton SystemWorks 2006 Premier
AntiVirus Corporate Edition
AntiVirus Enterprise Edition
AntiVirus / Filtering for Domino
AntiVirus Gateway Solution
AntiVirus for Caching
AntiVirus for Clearswift
AntiVirus for Handhelds Corporate Edition
AntiVirus for Messaging
AntiVirus for Macintosh
AntiVirus for Microsoft ISA Server 2000
AntiVirus for Microsoft SharePoint
AntiVirus for Network Attached Storage
Mail Security 8100 Series
Mail Security 8200 Series
Mail Security Enterprise Edition
Mail Security for Microsoft Exchange
Mail Security for Domino
Mail Security for SMTP
Scan Engine

ALL of those applications include "Anti-Virus" so that makes up a good near majority of the stuff Symantec does... and it was even more of a majority before they bought Veritas... but NAV and AV are basically the same thing, just with different interfaces... so they sell one of those they are also selling AV with it...

#2.5 markjensen on 20 Jul 2006 - 15:00

Quote - shmengie said @ #2.2

symantec IS nav, ya knucklehead.

My point that the article is on a report citing concern about Vista. Nothing about Symantec products, which the original poster seemed to determined to comment on and voice his/her opinion.

#2.6 PCyr on 21 Jul 2006 - 02:00

Quote - neufuse said @ #2.4

Quote - PCyr said @ #2.3

http://www.symantec.com/product/index.jsp

Of all ~135 products on that list only 4 are NAV versions. Good job Shmengie, you were less than 3% right. Maybe you shouldn't go around calling people names if you have no idea what you are talking about.

*scratches head* i found a much higher number then that... all these products made by symantec are anti-virus apps..

Norton AntiVirus 2006
Norton AntiVirus 10.0 for Macintosh
Symantec AntiVirus for Handhelds
Norton SystemWorks 2006 (includes Anti-virus)
Norton SystemWorks 2006 Basic Edition
Symantec Client Security 3.1
Symantec Client Security 3.1 with Groupware Protection
Norton AntiVirus 2006 Small Office Pack
Norton AntiVirus 10.0 for Macintosh
Symantec AntiVirus 10.1 Business Pack
Symantec AntiVirus for Handhelds
Symantec AntiVirus 10.1 with Groupware Protection
Norton SystemWorks 2006 Premier
AntiVirus Corporate Edition
AntiVirus Enterprise Edition
AntiVirus / Filtering for Domino
AntiVirus Gateway Solution
AntiVirus for Caching
AntiVirus for Clearswift
AntiVirus for Handhelds Corporate Edition
AntiVirus for Messaging
AntiVirus for Macintosh
AntiVirus for Microsoft ISA Server 2000
AntiVirus for Microsoft SharePoint
AntiVirus for Network Attached Storage
Mail Security 8100 Series
Mail Security 8200 Series
Mail Security Enterprise Edition
Mail Security for Microsoft Exchange
Mail Security for Domino
Mail Security for SMTP
Scan Engine

ALL of those applications include "Anti-Virus" so that makes up a good near majority of the stuff Symantec does... and it was even more of a majority before they bought Veritas... but NAV and AV are basically the same thing, just with different interfaces... so they sell one of those they are also selling AV with it...

The OP said NAV as in Norton Antivirus, so I only inlcluded those titles, as Mail Security may have AV protection in it, it likely would not have everything that NAV has.

(5 replies) #3 tsutton on 20 Jul 2006 - 10:13

Whine, whine, it's still beta after all.

Wait until it's final and then whine away if the security issue are still there.

#3.1 markjensen on 20 Jul 2006 - 11:25

I believe that when a product is in beta is the perfect time to point out potential issues. Perhaps Microsoft can work on them and insure that they are locked down and cleaned up as much as possible before product is final and shipped on hundred of thousands of systems to end users.

#3.2 neufuse on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:31

Quote - markjensen said @ #3.1

I believe that when a product is in beta is the perfect time to point out potential issues. Perhaps Microsoft can work on them and insure that they are locked down and cleaned up as much as possible before product is final and shipped on hundred of thousands of systems to end users.

It is the perfect time to point the issues out to Microsoft, not the public... because its going to create a false sense about the product to the public upon release... if issues are still there after the release version is out then scream about it in the public, but when its in a beta? just report it to MS as a problem... beta testers arnt allowed to discuss bugs in public generally, why should symantec be? just my opinnion

#3.3 markjensen on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:46

Sure. And where do you draw the line. Perhaps someone from a smaller company, say Stardock, writes up a review of Vista and points out potential problems. How about an individual blogger?

Shades of gray, here.

#3.4 dangel on 20 Jul 2006 - 13:42

Quote - markjensen said @ #3.3

Sure. And where do you draw the line. Perhaps someone from a smaller company, say Stardock, writes up a review of Vista and points out potential problems. How about an individual blogger?

Shades of gray, here.

Well call me cynical but when it's Symantec they've a vested interest in making lots of noise about how bad Vista's security will be (and then follow it up with how great it is once you've paid for their product). I do agree that raising issues now is a good thing but i just question how objective it all is..

#3.5 markjensen on 20 Jul 2006 - 15:01

Oh, I most certainly question the objectivity of the report, myself.

#4 MMaster23 on 20 Jul 2006 - 10:13

sup with all the double posts ?

#5 kyosuken on 20 Jul 2006 - 10:22

Isn't this FUD ? because if MS succeed in having a very secure OS out of the box (we can always pray for it

) the need for an antivirus may go down drastically (like the way it is on MacOs for example).

#6 javagreen on 20 Jul 2006 - 10:43

Who's reporting this? Symantec? doesn't that say it all

#7 atkoj on 20 Jul 2006 - 10:48

You're kidding?! Symantec says Vista will be less secure than XP and will therefore needs Norton Antivirus installed more than ever? I don't believe it! You'd almost think they were trying to sell more copies of their cash cow....

Groan.

Seriously though, it doesn't matter a jot how many security vulnerabilities there are in Vista. All OSs this complex are riddled with them (yes that includes OSX and Linux, although arguably not to the same degree). But the only thing that matters is how quickly the vulnerabilities are fixed once they are discovered, and how easily your nan can install the patch. I think microsoft has this about right (alright, so they could have been quicker on occasions).

#8 Al on 20 Jul 2006 - 11:04

Obviously it has loopholes, but Symantec is worried about losing the security market to Microsoft, and is making a big fuss out of this now.

#9 sgtLENIN on 20 Jul 2006 - 11:14

Symantec = ****.

#10 Syphonic on 20 Jul 2006 - 11:34

Whatever you think of Symantec products, that doesn't escape the fact that Vista is actually the crap thing here.

#11 Garry on 20 Jul 2006 - 11:36

Exactly. Symantec are probably no more aware of Vista's vulnerablities than any of us, but they're hardly likely to say, "You can stop buying all our anti-virus, firewall, anti-spyware and backup products now, because Vista is an incredible stable and secure OS."

#12 neufuse on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:11

gee you know what SYMANTEC, maybe if you know there are loopholes... tell microsoft BEFORE the product hits RTM... so they can FIX THEM! good gawd... even if they did report them to MS why go around blabbing oh there are holes there are holes! :rollseyes: especially from a company that sells software to defend against stuff... on and by the way did i mention vista is a BETA? it definatly has security holes in it and I bet MS knows it and still is working on them...

Last edited by neufuse on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:29

#13 kravex on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:17

Shock! Something not finished in a Beta, what is the world coming too.... :-/

#14 Z3r0 on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:24

it's ok, America is turning off the internet soon, no need to worry about all of this antivirus bs

#15 Netrack on 20 Jul 2006 - 12:32

im waiting for their brilliant article next week:

Symantec Report: OSX LEPOARD Code Contains Security Loopholes

dont forget to wash the salt out of your mouth

#16 water.hammer on 20 Jul 2006 - 13:13

Would you really trust symantec when it comes to security? Their antivirus products contain multiple unpatched security problems. It McAfee were to make such a claim, I would believe it but not when it comes from Symantec.

#17 dangel on 20 Jul 2006 - 13:34

Perhaps Symantec are just worried that people will use the MS alternatives?

They should be with products like NAV..

(1 reply) #18 C_Guy on 20 Jul 2006 - 15:04

Symantec says Vista isn't secure?

QUICK, get the credit card! I gotta get Symantec's Firewall, Internet Security, Anti-Virus, Anti-Spam, Anti-Attack, Anti-Spyware, Anti-Un-Security, Windows Super Duper Protection program and I dont' care what it costs!

Whew! Now I feel safe running Windows.

#18.1 dangel on 20 Jul 2006 - 15:28

Quote - C_Guy said @ #18

Symantec says Vista isn't secure?

QUICK, get the credit card! I gotta get Symantec's Firewall, Internet Security, Anti-Virus, Anti-Spam, Anti-Attack, Anti-Spyware, Anti-Un-Security, Windows Super Duper Protection program and I dont' care what it costs!

Whew! Now I feel safe running Windows.

very...verrrryyy sllllllooooowwwwwllllyy

#19 disposition21 on 20 Jul 2006 - 15:51

I agree that it is somewhat of a PR move on Symantec's part. But in the same aspect they are somewhat shooting themselves in the foot. Because if they keep the bugs under the rug until Vista comes out then people really will be rushing out to buy their security software.

So in some ways they are helping and hurting themselves. Either way, it doesn't matter, I seriously doubt MS will patch all of the bugs before Vista hits the shelves. What would everyone be doing on that famous Tuesday of every month?

#20 warwagon on 20 Jul 2006 - 17:48

The Day when a new version of Norton doesn't take up 13 process and the install / uninstall actually works, is the day i'll give a crap about what symantec has to say.

#21 RangerLG on 20 Jul 2006 - 19:17

Symantec must be real scared on OneCare!

#22 AdamLC on 21 Jul 2006 - 15:34

Its beta, report to MS not us

I personally think they just want people to pay up for their security software, as they see Vista as a threat to their business

#23 TC17 on 21 Jul 2006 - 21:11

Most likely those "loopholes" were put in there intentionally, Microsoft just didn't intend for someone to discover them so soon. More like "backdoors".

Microsoft likes to cater to "Big brother". And yes, they have admitted many times they like to cooprerate with big brother.

#24 japanesetea on 22 Jul 2006 - 19:36

I think holes exist soley for the purpose of the antivirus companies to continue making money, just like the lobbies in congress right now. tisk tisk...

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