Neowin.net - The Dark Side of Windows Vista RC1

The Dark Side of Windows Vista RC1

Posted by Steven Parker on 05 September 2006 - 08:10 · 51 comments & 23680 views

This just in from the SuperSite for Windows. In a recent showcase, I highlighted five things I really like about Windows Vista. That's a cute list, and certainly, I could easily come up with another 5, or 10, or 20. And you know, maybe I'll do just that. But first, I'd like to discuss a number of problems I have with Windows Vista. This, to be honest, is a long list. That doesn't mean that Windows Vista is a waste of time, or a product to be reviled. As a friend once noted, "it's good enough to criticize." Well, maybe. It certainly deserves to be criticized.

You see, Windows Vista isn't perfect. It's not even close to perfect. It's better than Windows XP is, of course, but it damn well should be: It benefits from five more years of experience and work. Being better is the minimum requirement. Whether Vista is enough of an improvement over XP to warrant your hard earned money is a subject I'm saving for my eventual review of the final shipping version of the product, but I'll give you a bit of preview now and say the answer may surprise you. In the meantime, let's harp a bit on the things I don't like about Vista as it now stands in RC1 form.

Anti-virus and Anti-spam
Windows Vista's antivirus and anti-spam features are particularly embarrassing because of Microsoft's stated focus on security in Windows Vista. Oh, and because there aren't any. To get this kind of protection, you'll need to pay Microsoft $50 a year for Windows Live OneCare which, while admittedly an excellent product, should also just come free with the OS that caused the problems in the first place. Obviously.

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Full name: Steven Parker
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(3 replies) #1 Posted by Neobond on 05 Sep 2006 - 08:14: I agree with most of the points he made, especially the one I highlighted about Anti-virus and Anti-spam. He has a point, a very valid point.

(2 replies) #2 Posted by oufc_gav on 05 Sep 2006 - 08:21: But of course, if Microsoft dared to bundle an AV product with the OS then they'd be taken to court for abusing their 'monopoly'.

#3 Posted by hinz on 05 Sep 2006 - 08:24: He's made some extremely good points, let's hope they can rectify a few of these issues in a SP1 update maybe?

(1 reply) #4 Posted by AnimaL on 05 Sep 2006 - 08:29: Yeah I agree with most of his points too. On a note about Anti-virus and Anti-spam though - if MS were to include fully fledged versions would they not be in trouble for anti-competative acts?

(1 reply) #5 Posted by REM2000 on 05 Sep 2006 - 08:58: the biggest point in my opinion which he raised was UI consistency, Windows 95 seemed to have it ok, but every version of windows since seems to move further and further away. i do agree that they need a ui team to go through and clean up the UI.

(5 replies) #6 Posted by madkingsoup on 05 Sep 2006 - 09:01: They can still include them. Windows is full of MS applications that could easily be considered anti-competitive (Movie Maker? Paint? ) but because the OS can run without them they aren't an issue. You can use them or obtain alternatives. Antispam and antivirus could so easily have fallen into the same category.

(1 reply) #7 Posted by superhuman on 05 Sep 2006 - 09:08: Paul is just having a mental issue. One day he is so excited about Vista and put it on top of the world, another day he says it bad like hell. Don't understand this!??

A lot of points he made are good but they show extreme frustration. Paul really needs to take a rest.

I do agree on the virus protection. For the sidebar, you can turn it off easily. Plus, if Mircosoft allows to set it off at the setup, no body is gonna complain about it.

(3 replies) #8 Posted by randomnut on 05 Sep 2006 - 09:27: Look at this way. Linux has practically no viruses, because if one was to hit your pc, it can't do any damage without giving it permission to do so. This has eliminated the need for an anti-virus, I see no reason Microsoft can't follow the same security strategy.

If linux can do it, built from the ground up mostly by a community of hobbyists, then there is no reason other than sheer lazyness that the richest company in the world can't do the same.

Last edited by randomnut on 05 Sep 2006 - 09:55

(2 replies) #9 Posted by Julius Caro on 05 Sep 2006 - 09:34: Imo sidebar sucks, and I don't find it uself. If sidebar was better and I had a widescreen monitor, I would consider it. Anything that is annoying at startup should be killed. Upon first boot, there are "start a new backup" icons, the sidebar icon and the security center advert. Plus the network and audio one. I could live without the first three... although I don't mind the security center desperately asking for an antivirus. And why would I want to do a full backup on a clean installation?

Vista has good things. The effects, the shadow transitions... those are the best from areo. Aero is not that bad, but it has a lot of incoherencies.

And I wouldn't mind windows including its own antivirus, but if they do that, mcafee and symantec would jump on MS's back. After all, mcafee and symantec have deals with pc vendors to bundle their crap on new computers. Poor karspersky and nod32. They are the best!

As for the rest of systems security... I'm still skeptical. To me, the two 'basic' security applications are an antivirus and a firewall. Antispyware detection should be one of the antivirus features. Anyway, and antispy would be cool though, but it's just "too much" anti-things.
The firewall would have a log and a list of applications connected to the internet.

In Vista, there's a firewall, but its not much better than the one included in xp sp2. And while I get UAC messages from little stupid things, I still haven't got any firewall prompt asking me if I want to give internet access to certain applications.
But then there ARE inbound/outbound rules of the firewall, but there's a management console thing for that. It's nowhere to be found in the firewall options in the security center.

And windows defender, what does it do exactly? Because the list of programs that are connected to the internet is there. Shouldn't this be a firewall's feature?

It's all a big mess. Too confusing to me.

(2 replies) #10 Posted by mrmckeb on 05 Sep 2006 - 09:50: Notice neowin posts this, but not the sister article on his site about "five great features of vista"...

#11 Posted by osirisX on 05 Sep 2006 - 10:28: I agree with his UI complaints. I just don't get WHY Microsoft is trying to make Windows more Browser-like.

(1 reply) #12 Posted by InsaneNutter on 05 Sep 2006 - 10:32: I think the Vista UI is Disgusting it has nice special effects like transparency but to actually use vista when you have been using xp for 5 years it just get stressful as nothing is where you expect it to be.

Then UAC kicks in every 2 seconds!!! Try making a folder in the start menu as an Admin, go on try it… you have to press continue 4 times to create a folder and give it a name.

In my eyes Vista is a step back from xp... sure some thing like media centre and the security of the os is improved but its not very nice to actually use like xp.

I would dread to see my parents use vista as they have a hard enough time using xp...

#13 Posted by hotdog963al on 05 Sep 2006 - 10:52: Good read, so much truth! I also agree with the "Great Features" Article. Microsoft seem to have things half right at the mo.

#14 Posted by Fourjays on 05 Sep 2006 - 11:27: I agree with most of his points. I haven't tried Vista, but have seen loads and loads of screenshots, and it is very inconsistant. The other thing that has always struck me about Vista, is there is too much transparency. It has taken over what could have been a good UI if they had used it in small amounts. There are some "Vista Styled" web designs and desktop skins that look much better than the real thing!

(1 reply) #15 Posted by danj205 on 05 Sep 2006 - 11:34: I agree with his UI complaints, but the other things felt like we was just having a mood swing.

Take UAC. I don't find it that annoying. If you are a Linux user, you encounter it all the time. It's mainly when you are setting up and installing stuff. I would rather UAC was there than nothing at all. He says that normal people are going to find it annoying, but who is a "normal" person? I think a normal person is someone who surfs the internet for information, checks their emails, does some work on it, play a couple of games. None of those things invokes UAC (unless you do something wrong). A "normal" person probably isn't going to go into their Program Files folder to make more folders, or hack their Windows dlls, or install 5 or so programs a day.

And to Superhuman, there is a link to OneCare Live from the Welcome window.

(1 reply) #16 Posted by innova on 05 Sep 2006 - 12:21: I'm very scared about vista at this point. Since trying longhorn/vista versions from pre-beta1, some things goes OK and some things go WRONG, and I can't believe why this is possible in a RC1.

I share Mr. Thurrott opinion in all points, but some of these points are no so bad for me, but I don't believe to see them in a RC1. Too late to repair these errors (five years was not enought?), some valuables cuts in final version, etc. etc.,

I believe that Windows Vista is a great software, but thanks to Microsoft, is just a great piece of software, not what people are waiting since XP, not what people need, or hardware need, just a great piece of software, not a great software.

Microsoft, again, no listen to the people that use Microsoft software, and this is the greatest mistake.

#17 Posted by Jugalator on 05 Sep 2006 - 12:57: I agree so much about the "Back" button. WHY does it need to work like a browser, and even worse when only a tiny fraction of the dialog box does? That's crazy stuff I thought would go away after the Longhorn Alpha, but they really seem to be serious about it. :-s

I also second his opinion about "sometimes no menus, sometimes hidden menus, sometimes a regular tool bar, sometimes a special black tool bar". Windows XP is *far* more consistent in this area, heck, even Windows 95 is.

Since Microsoft won't give a damn about changing these things until RTM (I don't think they even have time -- much less reopening the code for large-ish changes like these would need), I wonder how much of a problem these UI issues will be for novice users. I think these are beyond nitpicks and real problems with the UI making one feel a bit disoriented at times.

#18 Posted by Jasur on 05 Sep 2006 - 13:58: Simply. I dont like it.

#19 Posted by HEKTIK on 05 Sep 2006 - 14:00: I also agree with a LOT (if not all) of Pauls comments - Actually, I'll even go so far as to say I REALLY wish he was on the development team too! lol

(2 replies) #20 Posted by billyea on 05 Sep 2006 - 15:23: I agree with Paul's comment about the UI, it's disgusting from a usability standpoint. It's bearable, I've learned how to use it over the course of a few days with RC1, still disorenting at first.
Don't agree with the Sidebar/AV/UAC/AS comments. Sidebar boot performance just needs to be improved. And there's actually just 2 steps to disabling the sidebar: turn it off at startup, restart. Anitvirus and Antispam can't be bundled because MS is already in hot water and scared to death even though it's perfectly ok. UAC is fine if you're not a poweruser, and if you are you can turn it off anyway, more like a safety net for novices I bet.

(2 replies) #21 Posted by lurid on 05 Sep 2006 - 16:11: do i speak for everyone or just myself when i say "shut the hell up already!"? seriously, this tool has been ranting about what's good and bad about vista since he got his greasy hands on one of the many pre-release versions eons ago. too bad that what he says doesn't mean jack in the industry right now, considering most people won't adopt vista very quickly anyway unless they're either a) stupid or b) rich, or c) both.

#22 Posted by daniel_rh on 05 Sep 2006 - 17:34: I think this kind of critics are positive, the UI is good but it can be much better.

#23 Posted by Croquant on 05 Sep 2006 - 21:34: He's right about the UAC. Microsoft needs to kill it off.

#24 Posted by redwingsmonk on 05 Sep 2006 - 22:08: Lets all take a Fukitol 1000mg and buy a Mac! w000h000!!! w00t! w00t! :p

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