Surprise, surprise. Steve Ballmer isn't exactly a huge fan of Apple's forthcoming iPhone. In an interview with InformationWeek today, the Microsoft CEO bemoaned the phone's $499 price tag, lack of a keyboard and the hype factor that comes solely because of its brand, while noting that many other vendors are doing similar things for less. "I don't think this would be a very interesting announcement if anybody else had announced exactly the same product," Ballmer says. "If you didn't put the Apple name in that equation, I'm not sure how people would assess it."
Ballmer points out that the iPhone " or whatever it will ultimately be called, dependent on the outcome of Apple's battle with Cisco over the iPhone trademark " will start at five times as much as some phones on the market today that have similar features and functionality. "Today, you can buy phones for $100 that do e-mail, browsing, video, Office productivity " those are the Windows Mobile phones," he says. "There's a lot of innovation coming out of companies like Motorola, Samsung, HTC - a good partner of ours in China - [and] Palm at low price, high volume, good quality." Ballmer also specifically pointed to the iPhone's lack of a keyboard as a potential drawback for heavy e-mailers. "If you want to send e-mail, touchscreens are okay," he says. "We have touchscreen-based devices, but I think keyboards are generally preferred for people who do much typing."
View: The full story
News source: Information Week
Ballmer points out that the iPhone " or whatever it will ultimately be called, dependent on the outcome of Apple's battle with Cisco over the iPhone trademark " will start at five times as much as some phones on the market today that have similar features and functionality. "Today, you can buy phones for $100 that do e-mail, browsing, video, Office productivity " those are the Windows Mobile phones," he says. "There's a lot of innovation coming out of companies like Motorola, Samsung, HTC - a good partner of ours in China - [and] Palm at low price, high volume, good quality." Ballmer also specifically pointed to the iPhone's lack of a keyboard as a potential drawback for heavy e-mailers. "If you want to send e-mail, touchscreens are okay," he says. "We have touchscreen-based devices, but I think keyboards are generally preferred for people who do much typing."
View: The full story News source: Information Week
and the Windows mobile OS that they do sell to partners, is in no way thtreathened y the iPhone as it has been demonstrated now.
I'll avoid commenting on the touch screen though as I haven't used a phone with that myself yet. While I can definitely see the problems with a lack of physical keys, I can also see the advantages.
i talked to one of my friends about the iPhone and no sooner had the words left my mouth, he whipped out his Palm and said demonstrated everything the iPhone is touting as revolutionary. the only thing it had trouble with was finger tip usage. he doesn't use the stylus though, just his finger nail.
and so did my other friend with his P910... but he's a fanboy and during what i assumed was keynote-time he called me to say he's buying an iPhone as soon as it's out, hoping someone can unlock it past the Cingular madness.
me? still contented with my Nokia 7270.
Since I blieve the reason they're stuck with cingular is that they use a different phone network system(same as in europe) he would need to physically replace the actual phone stuff in the phone. so ... I do't think that's happenign anytime soon.
Yea the particular network would have to support does things in particular the visual voicemail I think Jobs said that was a special thing that Cingular had to develop along with them..
yea rite!!
he has a very valid point but windows mobile based devices are much much better than iPhone's so called "features"
the only thing i found innovative is the multiple touch sensitivity. everything else is just crap! the address book is not that innovative. loads of phones already have that kind of display.
the other point iPhone showed is detecting phonenumbers and contact details from the email or the SMS which existed even in some of mono colour phones which i have used some time back.
Opera for windows mobile is 1000 times better than safari. wo says opera is not a fully functional browser for mobile devices?
the price tag is just for the sake of the "apple" tag. i completely agree. who wants the censors which detects landscape and portrait modes? play a video in windows media player in small screen mode.., it shows in portrait mode. double click (tap).. widescreen mode. the screensize is not even the standard size for iPhone.
i was eagerly waiting for the iPhone before apple announcing it and the first rumour evolved in the industry but apple has badly disappointed me.
the worst part that i cannot install other applications from third party developers. WTH??? there are loads and loads of applications for windows mobile and loads for free!! the yahoo! stocks widget? the google maps widgets? they are all available for download for windows mobile.
Im happy with my gmail and hotmail account. also my personal site email is hosted by google so i dont really need the imap from yahoo! and i dont care if yahoo! offers it free for iPhone users.
wait... how could i forget the keyboard? Steve discussed this very looong time! windows mobile has the touch screen keyboard i dont really understand how that was innovative from Apple. When Steve compared the so called iPhone with the smart phone, how did he forget the O2 and Xda's? I still prefer to have just a saperate nano i have a very good PDA phone based on windows mobile.
i figure the presentation was geared towards regular phone users as opposed to actual pda/smartphone users. otherwise they would have included more devices for comparison.
like comparing a civic to a 323 instead of a stock skyline or something.
like comparing a civic to a 323 instead of a stock skyline or something.
If the iphone is geared towards the regular phone users, the price tag would have been much lower. atleast by couple of hundreds. Which regular users use the mobile phone for E-mail?
like comparing a civic to a 323 instead of a stock skyline or something.
If the iphone is geared towards the regular phone users, the price tag would have been much lower. atleast by couple of hundreds. Which regular users use the mobile phone for E-mail?
i was refering to the feature set when i talked about regular users. with the e-mail thing, people who usually wouldn't do it now will because they've been exposed to it. as for the price tag, that's just making the customer pay for your r&d (ps3 imho).
Cingular merged into ATT&T
A lack of keyboard? Wait a second... What about the touch screen? And how would anyone know that the keyboards on these phones that are out now will be better than the touch screen keyboard?
It just sounds like jeaously to me...
only MS didn't gimp theirs and say you could only install stuff accepted by them (so they can charge a premium from content developers, and make sur eyou can't install anythign that competes with their own software, like other MP3 players or such)
Arrogant? I'm trying not to be biased here... Also, what about LG's new phone with touch screen? That's pretty damn cool too. Steve Ballmer is just.... moronic and biased.
Yeah and look at all the hype that phone got.
only MS didn't gimp theirs and say you could only install stuff accepted by them (so they can charge a premium from content developers, and make sur eyou can't install anythign that competes with their own software, like other MP3 players or such)
Get your facts righ, MS did not think of it first, IBM demonstrated it in 1992 and released it 1993 Smartphone history
only MS didn't gimp theirs and say you could only install stuff accepted by them (so they can charge a premium from content developers, and make sur eyou can't install anythign that competes with their own software, like other MP3 players or such)
Get your facts righ, MS did not think of it first, IBM demonstrated it in 1992 and released it 1993 Smartphone history
not a smart phone on the same level as windows mobile or even the iPhone.
a smartphone with Widnows mobile is capable of so much more, as would the iPhone have been, with a little less nerfing
And while I don't consider wikipedia a good or especially reliable source for... anythimg you did bring it up so I'll just quote this as well.
wait wait have you ever owned touch screen based phone? I thought not. I own Palm Treo 750v which has touch screen based keyboard and physical keyboard. I always prefer physical keyboard as it is much easier to type with due to tactile feedback and shape of the keys whereas touch screen based keyboard are plain.
that is how the business works and moreover.., after the invention of ipod, if apple states that they are launching another ipod based product then any one will say that it can be a killer app but after the revelation of the product, the hefty price tag and not so innovative ideas built into it, the craze is buried 6 feet under the ground.
Also what about DRM, it only plays itunes stuff right?
I dont see anything wrong with this phone but what exactly does this phone do that other phones dont do that makes it so great?
He also states that if it didn't have Apple in the name, no one would give a shite. But surely, thats the kind of brand recognition Microsoft would like.
If Apple were making cars, they would be Ferrari. Lotus, Aston Martin. If Microsoft were to make cars, errm, Ford, Skoda? LOL.
Now stop comparing computers with cars.
MR2? i see them more like Smart or Scions.
Or he more spot on than he'd like to believe. considering Vista has several SKU's caterign to different markets/buyers
Not that that's a bad thing.
they could have rich parents... like paris hilton. while not a zombie, the girl does seem to demonstratet zombie intellect!
To be fair Apple aren't saying that they're doing something totally different to whats already out there.. they're reinventing it and repackaging it and there is no doubting that they appear to have done a wonderful job of it. But that same sort of functionality has been in MS Smartphones for some time - i've owned a smartphone (Orange SPV C500) and I thought it was a wonderful piece of kit. The only problem was that, in true MS fashion, it did hang a fair bit! Battery out job to get it working again!
Will just have to watch and see how it all plays out when its available. Maybe i'm just jelous because i'll never be able to afford an iPhone
Hopefully that won't be an issue with the iphone as you can't take the battery out!
Hopefully that won't be an issue with the iphone as you can't take the battery out!
well, you cant estimate that the iPhone wont stuck just because it doesnot have a battery facility. most of the windows mobile 2002 and some 2003 based PDA's whose bateries cannot be taken out hang. its just the reset button which works in this case and i hate using the reset. (resets are soft and hard the kind of reset im talking here does not clear your data off the device (soft))
But Ballmer is wrong about the iPhone being nothing special. This thing looks amazing. I have several friends with different smartphones and not one of them comes close to being as incredible as the iPhone (based on Jobs' keynote). I don't think that getting used to an on-screen keyboard will be a walk in the park, but neither was using a mouse for the first time back in the 80's - we will learn to adapt. I can't speak from experience but personally I think the iPhone's keyboard - because of it's larger buttons - looks easier to use than the average smartphone's miniture keyboard.
I only scanned the article after I saw that at the beginning. It would be totally different if Jobs was badmouthing MS
The only thing that I really dislike is the batery life...
Ballmer is just doing what any executive of a competing company would do, release a statement against the competition and for his own company's product.
Last edited by statm1 on 18 Jan 2007 - 12:30
Multitouch gives you the ability to have two fingers on the screen at the same time.. Making the touchscreen keyboard more of a real feel to it and makes it more convenient..
There's several mobile browsers - Opera Mobile is rather nice for example (I run it on my device) as well as Minimo, Netfront etc.. Nothing new there i'm afraid - and I have _choice_ to (not as tho MS locks people out of developing for their mobile platform!
As for touchscreens (i've had 4 touchscreen phones) - why do you think all the other manu's are producing touchscreen phones with hard keys, keypads and/or keyboards? They're much, much easier to use as (quite simply) their tactile.
Ballmer is just doing what any executive of a competing company would do, release a statement against the competition and for his own company's product.
- as said above, opera and internet explorer mobile can do the same, opera is the best mobile browser at the moment.
- outlook on windows mobile can sure read html mails, and can sync with exchange servers. The same goes for blackberry
- multi-touch, meh, overhyped, give me a stylus instead of my fat smudgy finger any day, but if you really want, you can move the scrollbar with a flick of your finger on my htc too
- oh, windows mobile or pocket pc or windows ce whatever device you're using is a full blown os too
Last edited by XerXis on 18 Jan 2007 - 13:07
- outlook on windows mobile can sure read html mails, and can sync with exchange servers. The same goes for blackberry
- multi-touch, meh, overhyped, give me a stylus instead of my fat smudgy finger any day, but if you really want, you can move the scrollbar with a flick of your finger on my htc too
I looked around on google for pictures of the Opera Mobile browser and I didnt find one that showed the actual website.. All I saw was a WAP version of the all the websites. Has anyone that are commenting here actually seen how the Newyork Times website looks on the iPhone?
As for the touchscreen keyboard.. Some people might not have fat fingers or just not have the patience either way. Im sure it will turn into a preference thing. And Im sure if you were going to type a long email wouldnt it be easier to do it on a real PC? I dont thing any phone was made to type out huge emails anyway. So some might like it some might not, to each their own..
http://news.com.com/1601-2-961985.html
picture of some site
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN
acid 2 on opera mobile
http://operawatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2...pera.mobile.gif
http://news.com.com/1601-2-961985.html
picture of some site
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN
acid 2 on opera mobile
http://operawatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2...pera.mobile.gif
Ok so Opera Mobile isnt a WAP browser. BUT, it still changes what the original website looks like.
http://news.com.com/1601-2-961985.html
picture of some site
http://images.google.be/imgres?imgurl=http...6lr%3D%26sa%3DN
acid 2 on opera mobile
http://operawatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2...pera.mobile.gif
Ok so Opera Mobile isnt a WAP browser. BUT, it still changes what the original website looks like.
That is a setting, it can render the entire page. But most of the time that would slow you down on a gprs or umts connection. And it makes it harder to get the relevant information.
you can type efficiently using a a keyboad or a stylus rather than using your fingers on a touch screen.
it gives absolutely zero. You might as well say that all keyboards can be multitouch.
All Apple, All hype
do that on normal hardware keys
Last edited by CoolBits on 18 Jan 2007 - 13:42
Compared to the iPhone, the 8525:
- 30 percent heavier (6.21 vs 4.8 ounces)
- twice as thick (.86 inches thick versus .46 inches)
- has half the screen resolution (320x240 vs 480x320)
- almost an inch smaller screen
- 1/62 internal memory (64MB versus 4GB)
- no wifi
- no ipod
- has same talk time battery life
Of course, the iPhone has a real OS, a full web browser, a rich Mail program, sophisticated sensors, the best Google Maps implementation ever and new touchscreen technology that no one will be able to match for at least a year or two (maybe more -- it's patented). If you haven't seen the demonstration videos, you can't say your current phone's features are comparable, even if they sound similar.
And for you to say, "Who needs all those megapixels, that's what a digital camera is for," is just stupid. The iPhone can replace an iPod, a cellphone, an internet communicator, and a digital camera -- and in one device. At $499 it's a bargain since you won't need those other things with you all the time.
Ballmer isn't jealous; he's scared shitless.
Cingular 8525 does have Wifi it supports 802.11b, 802.11g modes. Cingular 8525 (HTC Hermes) supports UMTS and HSDPA whereas iPod Phone supports the old GPRS. Of course Hermes also supports true push email. What is the point of having HTML email when you can't receive it when it arrives in your mailbox?
We shall see whether iPhone has a real OS or cut down version of Leopard. In either case the fact that its locked means there will never be killer applications for it like Tomtom Navigator, Skype, Slingbox or advanced PIM's like Pocket Informant/Agenda Fusion.
You couldn't be more wrong. Why would Ballmer be scared when their OS is targeted at completely different market to iPod Phone? Microsoft has never tried to market Windows Mobile for average consumers. Every paper, ad and conference I have read shows they target Windows Mobile for Enterprise users.
No surprise here.
And hey, did you see Microsoft take an advertisement for the "iPhone" and set it on fire? Oh, that's right, Microsoft is a group of mature professionals so I guess not.
This discussion is about the iPhone, not the Zune.
So they have taken the basic concept of a phone and merged it with a Nano, slapped an Apple logo on it and suddenly every one is all WOW about it. Why?
Honestly, how valuable is your pocket space if you can't fit an iPod and a phone in it and really need to merge the two devices? I'm happy with my phone as is, and I like my iPod being completely separate. Especially how it locks up some times when watching movies... so that's all I need is for it to lock up on me in the middle of a call and I have to do some weird Vulcan nerve pinch type finger move to reset the damn thing.
1. The device is hugely over hyped, it's only popular because it has the Apple name on it. The device, and the technology are nothing more than a rehash of what already exists on more affordable devices.
2. The hype has nothing to do with special features because as he correctly points out, there are devices that cost 1/3 of what the iPhone will cost that do all the same things (and more). Also due to Apple's choice to lock down the phone in terms of 3rd party apps, the iPhone will be severely limited in terms of customizability. The plethora of Windows Mobile 3rd party apps covers just about any need you could have. Need a feature? download a 3rd party app. This is not the case with the iPhone. Need an app? Maybe Apple will make one, but they will sure as hell charge you for it.
3. The touchscreen really is pretty useless when you consider the fact that you cannot "touch dial" with this phone. The tactile sensation of pushing a button is severely under appreciated and people will see that when they try this full touchscreen.
4. The lack of a replaceable battery is an absolutely idiotic move. Cell phones are not like MP3 players, and this is what Apple fails to grasp. Sure, your iPod dies and you can live without music, but your cell phone cannot die because it is a very important device (to some people). The sad thing is that Apple did this ONLY to screw customers out of more money, and for no other reason. On a similar note, business/corp users will never put up with this idiocy because most of them currently carry at least 1 additional fully charged battery because they expect the standard cell phone battery to die during the day. With the iPhone, you don't have this (obvious) luxury because Apple wants to screw you. That is nice of them huh?
5. The price is also aimed at the wrong market. The price is suitable for business/corp users who might be willing to pay $500 for a phone. However, this is definitely not a business/corp phone due the lack of syncing with Outlook and the lack of support for MS Exchange. Therefore, they must be aiming at "normal" consumers, and a 16 year old kid (for example) is definitely not going to be running out and pay $500 for a phone that is sitting on the shelf right next to a $100 that does all the same things.
The ironic thing (that I mentioned in the beginning) is that Windows Mobile 5 ( and soon to be 6) does everything the iPhone plans to do, except all the nerds are blind to that fact because it doesn't say Apple.
That is just sad.
Last edited by xxdesmus on 18 Jan 2007 - 15:26
I know - it's really not what you expect from Monkey Boy!
The ironic thing (that I mentioned in the beginning) is that Windows Mobile 5 ( and soon to be 6) does everything the iPhone plans to do, except all the nerds are blind to that fact because it doesn't say Apple.
That is just sad.
I agree completely. At first glance, the iPhone seemed like a cool idea - but the lack of 3rd party support and (as you mentioned) the lack of a separate input method will hurt it, and people who say there's "nothing out there that can do what it can" obviously aren't looking that hard... Minus the touchscreen, there are plenty of phones that do what the iPhone can...
And minus the CPU, there are plenty of typewriters that can do what the PC can do. The touchscreen IS the iPhone.
And minus the CPU, there are plenty of typewriters that can do what the PC can do. The touchscreen IS the iPhone.
The touchscreen ISN'T really that useful, so that doesn't exactly speak highly of the device then.
I am currently using a Sony P910i, and have used P9xx series for a while as this is the best phone out of the bunch. I have been trialing the nokia E61 and it is a very good phone. However both the sony and the nokia phone lack cohesion, the ui and the applications (in the p9xx series case) all seemed to have been written by different people in different parts of the world, hardley any of them want to work togeather, and they are still prone to crashing etc.
However both these phones can do everything the iPhone has promised to do, the p910i even uses a touch screen.
So why do i think that the iPhone is 5 years advanced of these phones! it because i know that apple will deliver a polished product with seamless intergration with the hardware and software, between the OS and the apps and between app to app. I know that the phone's camera will work flawlessly with the photo software which in turn will sync with my computer without any hassles. This is why the iPhone is more advanced, it is not what it does, it how it does it. After switching to a mac in i think was 2005 (not a complete switch i still use windows etc..) every apple product i have brought since then has worked really well and has been seamless, without any headaches. Most of these products i have brought (such as an iPod) are not really doing anything new, however what all of apples products do, do, they do well.
I will be purchasing an iPhone when they arrive in europe, i have faith that the iPhone will deliver an outstanding experience.
You said it! What most of the WinFanBoys on here have failed to grasp...
I can understand that the iPhone will be a cool device - but to me it doesn't justify the price tag, and frankly the decision not to support (unapproved) 3rd party apps (if that turns out to stick) is awful... The inability to text in my pocket will be bad too
I wouldn't be worried, either.
Wow, that was an ignorant comment. C_guy=n00b. Less than 5% of all computers sold today are Windows PCs.
Wow, that was an ignorant comment. C_guy=n00b. Less than 5% of all computers sold today are Windows PCs.
Wow, that was an ignorant comment. C_guy=n00b. Less than 5% of all computers sold today are Windows PCs.
Speaking of ignorance DeeJay2 ... ok, but lets look at existing user base? Oh right, 97%
I am still laughing at the fact that you called someone a n00b and yet you're actually trying to be taken seriously, that's just funny.
He is missing the point with the iPhone. It's not revolutionary because of photos, calling, video and music functions. It's revolutionary because of the interface. The iPod wasn't revolutionary because it was just another mp3 player. It was revolutionary because the physical and software interface was clear and easier to use than the competitions.
Also, multi-touch IS NOT just a touchscreen. Trust me, I have to use a touch screen device at work all the time and it is a ROYAL pain in the butt. Seriously, it really does slow down my workflow. If it were multi-touch it wouldn't work against me. At least if it works as previewed.
Personally I think the price is a little high but so was my PowerBook when I bought it and that was the best computer purchase I've made. Old Chinese proverb, "Buy expensive, cry once."
Last edited by QuarterSwede on 18 Jan 2007 - 20:58
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