Although it has been discussed to death here, some official coverage on the front page is needed. Thanks to Ambiance for posting a direct response from Microsoft about the issue.
Unlike with the Windows XP Upgrade CD, with Windows Vista users are forced to have a valid install of Windows XP Home or Professional on their machines before upgrading with a Vista Upgrade DVD. This typically isnt a big deal for the majority of users on the first install of Vista; but think about the necessary steps if you already have Vista installed or no operating system on the computer:
News source: DailyTech (Thanks RAID 0)
Unlike with the Windows XP Upgrade CD, with Windows Vista users are forced to have a valid install of Windows XP Home or Professional on their machines before upgrading with a Vista Upgrade DVD. This typically isnt a big deal for the majority of users on the first install of Vista; but think about the necessary steps if you already have Vista installed or no operating system on the computer:
- Install a genuine copy of Windows XP Home/Professional
- Activate Windows XP through Microsoft
- Upgrade to Windows Vista from within Windows XP
News source: DailyTech (Thanks RAID 0)
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http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=352&a...xpert&pid=4
-Rich-
How many non-tech people would even buy and install a new OS? (Though, from the looks of it, it's almost exactly the same as activating XP after you run out of online activations.)
Right. Burglars are going to break into your house anyway, so why bother locking it up at all and causing yourself all the inconvenience of having to unlock your house every time you come home?
And while you're at it, why not just leave all your valuables in plain sight in the living room so the burglars don't have to strain themselves trying to find them? Maybe a big red neon arrow pointing at your cash would also help!
Right. Burglars are going to break into your house anyway, so why bother locking it up at all and causing yourself all the inconvenience of having to unlock your house every time you come home?
And while you're at it, why not just leave all your valuables in plain sight in the living room so the burglars don't have to strain themselves trying to find them? Maybe a big red neon arrow pointing at your cash would also help!
So i should make my family climb down the chimney to get in the house? I think think your fanboi shirt is showing. Come up with a reasonable argument. I tell the doctor i have a wart on my big toe does he remove the foot?? Idiot.
Right. Burglars are going to break into your house anyway, so why bother locking it up at all and causing yourself all the inconvenience of having to unlock your house every time you come home?
And while you're at it, why not just leave all your valuables in plain sight in the living room so the burglars don't have to strain themselves trying to find them? Maybe a big red neon arrow pointing at your cash would also help!
So i should make my family climb down the chimney to get in the house? I think think your fanboi shirt is showing. Come up with a reasonable argument. I tell the doctor i have a wart on my big toe does he remove the foot?? Idiot.
No, you let your family in through the front door, what are you some kind of idiot? *I just had to say it since you seem to think throwing insults around is cute*
You're coming up with scenarios that don't even compare.
People don't seem to understand.
OEM or Full version copies work just like they always did.
The only difference is with an Upgrade copy they actually require you to prove that you are eligible.
Just admit it, you're a pirate and that's why you have to insult Microsoft, you're a freeloader who's ****ed that your free ride is over.
Why don't you just grow up.
Fanboi? Yes, I'm a fanboy of intellectual honesty rather than self-serving deception and spin.
You are the one with the unreasonable argument: that Microsoft should not inconvenience its paying customers by protecting its intellectual property because the scumbags are going to steal it anyway. Well that is exactly analogous to leaving the house open to everyone because burglars are going to come in anyway.
And don't say activation is tantamount to making your "family climb down the chimney to get in the house." It's more like you having to pass through an extra-secure door the first time you enter the house. After that, your family can enter using a simple key (password).
If people depended on the honor system instead of locks to protect their valuables, they'd soon enough not have any because there's no shortage of dishonest individuals willing to steal them.
This philosophy applies whether or not Microsoft is involved. One doesn't need to be a Microsoft fanboy to approve of any company or individual taking whatever steps are necessary to protect their property from thieves.
Just admit it, you're a pirate and that's why you have to insult Microsoft, you're a freeloader who's ****ed that your free ride is over.
Why don't you just grow up.[/quote]
Nice troll you accuse me of pirating. I own my copy of Vista. Try reading what i was talking about then reply.
Ms has plenty of protection without the need of calling home every 6 months or having to call ms to put it on a new pc. And yes the chimney does work using your key to go in the front door isnt enough anymore. Your more for corporations than the user, which is a shameful attitude. Heres your scenario, Bad people use guns so to protect the police from getting shot we are going to take away guns. You dont need a gun unless your a bad "pirate" person. Bad guys still have guns though........
Does that mean you can't perform CLEAN installs from within xp?
Actually it makes perfect sense. The whole point behind this is that it would be next to impossible to verify your XP cd as legal or not if you didn't have to install it and activate it first. Making people first install XP and activate it before allowing an upgrade is simply a way to verify you are not updating a pirated copy of XP, thereby fraudulently getting upgrade prices.
Actually it makes perfect sense. The whole point behind this is that it would be next to impossible to verify your XP cd as legal or not if you didn't have to install it and activate it first. Making people first install XP and activate it before allowing an upgrade is simply a way to verify you are not updating a pirated copy of XP, thereby fraudulently getting upgrade prices.
1. I have Vista Ultimate Edition (Full), so I kinda don't care
2. I would never upgrade my system, a clean install is most oftenly (if not always) better
3. If you can't afford Vista, stick with XP
4. If you can afford Vista, you will obviously have the brain capacity to go with option 2
5. If none of this applies to you, still go with option 2
Edit: ok there is one reason to use the upgrade, if the buggy Vista setup gives you BSODs when you boot from it
With XP upgrade cd's you CAN do a clean install. The 'upgrade' was more a reference in that you are upgrading your license or something. You have the option to do an install over the previous OS to retain settings OR do a full clean install. You also didnt need the previous OS to be installed at the time, just the disk and cd key.
I think I won't install Vista until they come out with a new installer / DVD for the upgrade edition.
I think I won't install Vista until they come out with a new installer / DVD for the upgrade edition.
Then you will never install Vista! The only way for Microsoft to verify your XP is legal is to make you install it and activate it first, then running the upgrade. It is impossible to tell just by scanning your XP cd during the setup.
I think I won't install Vista until they come out with a new installer / DVD for the upgrade edition.
Then you will never install Vista! The only way for Microsoft to verify your XP is legal is to make you install it and activate it first, then running the upgrade. It is impossible to tell just by scanning your XP cd during the setup.
Maybe they should have thought ahead a bit more. Why not just have them check the serial number on their fancy authentication servers after Vista is installed (since it needs a Network connection)? since they have all the lockout features in Vista, they can disable your connection if you can't put your XP serial and your Vista one within a certain number of days. Heck they should be happy that their customers are upgrading from their previous OSes.
Which is pretty stupid.
They should've just had it double-check the XP key and the upgrade key (and possibly the XP CD in the drive) instead. It would save a lot of time.
How does that help?
It makes sense if you CAN perform the clean install... but microsoft should have thought of another way of checking for legit XP copies...
The title says no boot clean installs. I will assume they mean no booting with the Vista disk and installing on a clean HDD. The title isn't misleading.
i work in retail and i have been confused even more with this upgrade issue.
and since the upgrade ultiamte will contain 32-bit and 64-bit in hte box- does the key only work with one type? or can the 64bit be also used in the future with the same key?
which version is vista pro?
After all these changes, I think I'll be going with the OEM version of Vista down the road. It really seems like the past few years MS has really changed it's tactics. I'm not too sure if the changes are for the better. I know a lot of people complain about the validation process, although I've never had a problem with it. I do see it can really be a PITA for some. I guess we'll see how things pan out over the next few months. GOD SPEED!
Guess that scenario isn't on MS's list of valid methods of upgrading to Vista.
You can upgrade from your current edition of Microsoft Windows XP or Windows 2000 to a corresponding or better edition of Windows Vista by purchasing and installing an upgrade copy of Windows Vista. Depending on which edition of Windows you are running and the edition of Windows Vista you would like to install, you have two options for the installation process:
In-place upgrade
You can upgrade in-place, which means you can install Windows Vista and retain your applications, files, and settings as they were in your previous edition of Windows.
Clean install
Upgrading to Windows Vista with a clean install means that you should use Windows Easy Transfer to automatically copy all your files and settings to an extra hard drive or other storage device, and then install Windows Vista. After the installation is complete, Windows Easy Transfer will reload your files and settings on your upgraded PC. You will then need to reinstall your applications.
You can still do a clean install with the upgrade edition people.
OEM for me it is
-Rich-
I am purchasing an upgrade version and was planning to do a clean install from within windows and all of a sudden that is not possible.
I am glad I skimmed through the article to find you can do a clean install with an upgrade copy, you just have to do it through the windows environment.
What this article should say is you can't do a boot time installation with an upgrade, but you can do a clean install. It just requires the windows environment.
Thanks Deihmos.
God, somebody please edit this news title!!!
If that Microsoft page is right...
You CAN perform a clean install if you start the installer from within XP. The title of the news suggests that you can't perform a clean install AT ALL.
Can people just make a difference between INSTALLING IT FROM BOOT UP and INSTALLING IT FROM WINDOWS?
What microsoft has changed is the "insert a CD of the previous version of windows you own". Now, since they don't want you to be eligible for a vista upgrade (let's say "upgrade discount cause we know you are good customer that spent many dollars in a previous version of windows) if you had a pirated version of XP, they require now that you install it from an activated copy of XP.
The ability of performing clean installs is still there, I suppose. If that "upgrade planning" page is correct.
I know having to install xp before vista anytime is a pain down *there* , but God you can still have your shiny clean install !! The title of this news suggests: upgrade versions means your installation will ALWAYS be a windowsxp "upgraded".
1. Clean installs from XP... POSSIBLE!
2. Clean installs with an UPGRADE key by booting the disc. NOT POSSIBLE.
You know what's funny? This "direct response from microsoft" doesn't even SUGGEST the idea of not being able to perform a clean install.
Last edited by Julius Caro on 29 Jan 2007 - 00:17
God, somebody please edit this news title!!!
If that Microsoft page is right...
You CAN perform a clean install if you start the installer from within XP. The title of the news suggests that you can't perform a clean install AT ALL.
Clean to me means there's nothing on the disc. If you start the "clean" install from within XP, files are written to the disc you're installing onto, just like when you do it in 2000 going to XP. You don't get the choice to format the disc, and those files are still there.
What happens with the next version of Windows when I want to upgrade from my Vista upgrade? Am I going to have to install Windows XP, then Windows Vista Upgrade, and then Windows bull**** edition?
Why not just ask a legit Windows XP key AND Windows Vista key during installation of Vista Upgrade version?
Again, an example of anti-piracy measures as the ultimate way to **** consumers off
Again, an example of anti-piracy measures as the ultimate way to **** consumers off
Legit copy = legit license key.
edit: also the thing is: boot clean installation can STILL check for your "legit" copy of windows xp. Hell, there are MANY ways to have BOTH boot clean installation PLUS checking "legit" windows copy. M$ is deliberately crippling legit users.
Well, I didn't (my XP Pro is legit, MSDNAA) - i installed it, and then 'upgraded' clean install to vista business, not installing anything (no lan drivers - no activation) and it didn't complain.
BTW I still think this is stupid, i want to be able to dvd boot, format and then install vista, but my u/g copy is free, so i'll make do for the sake of £300!
Thanks
APPLIES TO
Windows Vista Home Premium
Windows Vista Home Basic
Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit edition
Windows Vista Home Basic 64-bit edition
Windows Vista Starter
NOT Ultimate or Business upgrade.!!!!
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/930985/en-us
Especially those who got their Power Together promotion Vista Business edition..
No, that a horrible reason to avoid vista
A better reason would be that it sucks, and will crush your PC.
A better reason would be that it sucks, and will crush your PC.
Hmm, my pc is in fact not crushed yet. My copy of Vista must be broken.