David Heiner, Microsoft's deputy general counsel, said the company has had few takers for Windows XP N and Windows Vista N, noting that "not a single PC manufacturer has chosen to license" the special editions of its operating systems, which are available only in Europe. EU regulators ordered Microsoft to unbundle Media Player from some versions of Windows available for sale in Europe after charging that the bundling gave the company an unfair advantage over media player products created by third-party developers.
Heiner was speaking to FTC officials to urge them to adopt anti-monopoly measures that promote competition rather than restrict consumer choice. The EU's decision to order Microsoft to strip out its own media player technology from some versions of Windows has hurt both Microsoft and its European customers, Heiner said. "Costs have been imposed, but there is little apparent benefit for anyone." In his comments to the FTC, Heiner blasted the EU for inserting itself into talks between Microsoft and third-party product manufacturers. "Whether firms choose to take a license, and what kind of products they build with those licenses, is of course entirely up to them and outside the control of either Microsoft or any antitrust agency."
News source: InformationWeek
Heiner was speaking to FTC officials to urge them to adopt anti-monopoly measures that promote competition rather than restrict consumer choice. The EU's decision to order Microsoft to strip out its own media player technology from some versions of Windows has hurt both Microsoft and its European customers, Heiner said. "Costs have been imposed, but there is little apparent benefit for anyone." In his comments to the FTC, Heiner blasted the EU for inserting itself into talks between Microsoft and third-party product manufacturers. "Whether firms choose to take a license, and what kind of products they build with those licenses, is of course entirely up to them and outside the control of either Microsoft or any antitrust agency."
News source: InformationWeek
If two companies are dumping toxic waist into a river, shouldn't both be charged even though only one is dumping 10 gallons while the other is only dumping 5?
MS wasn't sued for bundling too much stuff.
Keep the immature comments out
Last edited by Chad on 22 May 2007 - 03:18
Last edited by Chad on 22 May 2007 - 03:19
Absolutely insane
Absolutely insane
Not as insane as EU is. Isn't threatening to steal 3 millions $ a day from foreign company completely insane?
I think it's fair that people shoud pay for their government insanity.
If windows comes with a media player, browser, movie maker, paint, backup facility etc etc..I am not bothered, I will choose if I use them or not.
NOT THE E.U.
By US laws it means they can do anything.
Stop trolling.
What are you talking about? Safari's biggest fault is that it's TOO standards compliant. It's much too picky.
NOT THE E.U."
Oh come on, how will the EU make any money off Microsoft with *that* attitude?
/sarcasm
Force Microsoft to separate the OS from it's other main applications too. Main apps like Media Player, Messenger, Internet Explorer, Movie Maker and Windows Mail.
Other software companies would have an immensively greater chance at getting revenue in the browser and media player market, have better software and software in stores. When was the last time you saw a browser software box in a store, and how long will it take before PowerDVD and WinDVD would give up ghost as Vista is capable of playing back CSS enctrypted DVD files?
1. remove and prevent Microsoft from bundling major apps with Windows
2. prevent Microsoft from selling or giving out the software "Free" by either a download link, windows update, or a security update (IE 7)
3. force them to sell the apps at reasonable development cost
You think they should probably get rid of the wallpapers away from Windows too? How about all of the device drivers that come bundled? the task bar? the start menu? surely some other company is losing revenue by not developing these things????
How about this, how about we go back to the world where Microsoft only supplies a command line operating system and then we have to go and find our own window manager and download it somehow (I'm obviously going to have to buy a basic ftp client and a network stack)?
People have to get it into their heads that an operating system includes a Media Player, a Web Browser, Basic Movie manipulation software, a mail client, an instant messaging client - people expect it to be there. To be quite honest, I wish Microsoft would add a very cut down version of the Office toolset in there too.
If you release a compelling product, people will use it - look at iTunes (not my idea of a compelling product but many would choose to disagree with me).
It's no surprise nobody wants a reduced functionality version... is it?
Monopoly or not, it's Microsofts product, they should be able to do with it as they please...
What is the big problem with Microsoft bundling Paint, Wordpad, and WMP? It's their software, why try be to like the EU and boss them around. Why force them to do something that could be detrimental to the comsumer. Who wants to go out when they buy a new OS have to buy 10 or 12 other pieces of software just to make the OS usable. I wouldn't buy it. Atleast if Microsoft bundles it, we know it works.
2. prevent Microsoft from selling or giving out the software "Free" by either a download link, windows update, or a security update (IE 7)
All I can say is WTF. They are not forcing you to download those. Some are highly suggested but they don't force a gun to your head. So you want the consumer to fork out cash to buy what is free?
3. force them to sell the apps at reasonable development cost
And this would be?
In addition, there are things such as localization: do the third-party apps support the language? Accessibility: it's a law in the US that Microsoft takes very seriously and applies high standards, but does the third-party app fully support accessibility to the same level, and in all languages? Security: is Quicktime really more of a threat to the customer than IE? Understand that security holes in Firefox, Quicktime, Real, etc will continue to be found...but Microsoft Update doesn't patch third-party security holes, and those apps are usually already on the next revision by the time the OS ships. Has the app been fully tested with the OS, and who's responsibility is it to test and possibly even fix that app? What happens if the distribution contract runs out or is disputed? What is included on the install disc needs to meet an enormous number of standards.
So, it's not as easy as it would first appear.
BTW, shipping Windows N also is not as easy as it would appear. We can't simply remove the player from the build script and build. We have to pull quite a few people to design, fully test and occasionally fix bugs in the N versions, so it does cost MS in time, resources and money...for which we obviously did not get any kind of return on for doing so.
In addition, there are things such as localization: do the third-party apps support the language? Accessibility: it's a law in the US that Microsoft takes very seriously and applies high standards, but does the third-party app fully support accessibility to the same level, and in all languages? Security: is Quicktime really more of a threat to the customer than IE? Understand that security holes in Firefox, Quicktime, Real, etc will continue to be found...but Microsoft Update doesn't patch third-party security holes, and those apps are usually already on the next revision by the time the OS ships. Has the app been fully tested with the OS, and who's responsibility is it to test and possibly even fix that app? What happens if the distribution contract runs out or is disputed? What is included on the install disc needs to meet an enormous number of standards.
So, it's not as easy as it would first appear.
BTW, shipping Windows N also is not as easy as it would appear. We can't simply remove the player from the build script and build. We have to pull quite a few people to design, fully test and occasionally fix bugs in the N versions, so it does cost MS in time, resources and money...for which we obviously did not get any kind of return on for doing so.
those applications are ussually patched faster than MS does their on problems.
but what makes me think is this , what is in reality an O.S. ?
- yes just the OS . since i never thought an web browser , audio utils , were needed so that we could have an O.S.
Whats the problem of creating a setup were we could tick what we wanted to install ( any util that doesnt have anything to do with an operating system OS instead of just being feed with something we wont or never use.
Be realistic here. MS wont put firefox into the installer as an option and not everyone is buying via dell and even then you need some sort of solution from people reinstalling/buying from scratch/smaller OEM's that may not include additional software.
Remove IE and I'm sure youd hurt other competitors just as much as youd hurt MS simply because unless FFx or Opera comes pre bundled (in many cases it wont), then users need a means to download these alternative programs.
OMFG. It's bad enough that people already voluntarily download and install that invasive crap (Quicktime and Real)!
So if you don't like Windows, don't install it in the first place. If you have to, then bear with it, just like I bear with Linux at work.
What many people don't understand is that there is no sense completely cutting IE from Windows.
Thing that will break: All Help, WMP, Outlook and other mail apps, some Explorer features, ftp,maybe even taskbar toolbars, Virtual Server, and many many not so obvious apps and features. Firefox cannot replace them, because IE is more than browser. It's markup and layout engine used throughout Windows.
What many people don't understand is that there is no sense completely cutting IE from Windows.
Thing that will break: All Help, WMP, Outlook and other mail apps, some Explorer features, ftp,maybe even taskbar toolbars, Virtual Server, and many many not so obvious apps and features. Firefox cannot replace them, because IE is more than browser. It's markup and layout engine used throughout Windows.
the libs could be there , the browser itself couldnt ( optional )
main problem is that ms dev dont wanna - makes them work too much ( last time i checked iexplore was ie
making an advanced setup would take ages for them ( keeping the libs that were needed just for the OS , since their all linked , and not installing the application itself ) ( at least it would keep some ppl happy )
main problem is that ms dev dont wanna - makes them work too much ( last time i checked iexplore was ie
making an advanced setup would take ages for them ( keeping the libs that were needed just for the OS , since their all linked , and not installing the application itself ) ( at least it would keep some ppl happy )
The problem is iexplore.exe is a lib too =) Maybe sometimes it will change.
Also you can go to Control Panel/Add-Remove Programms/Windows Features/ and uncheck the first checkbox - "Internet Explorer".
It removes references to IE from many places.
when i heard that Vista was going to be "componentized", i thought this is what we were going back to (a la OS X) but alas it was not to be. i'm sure that would've satisfied the EU and maybe also cut down on the number of versions of Vista.
e.g. ship one DVD and the product key would install the necessary set of features. just an idea...
When you are in the "Setup Windows" mode you have the choice:
What audio player do you want (Choose as many as you want)?
[_] Windows Media Player
[_] iTunes
[_] Real Media
[_] WinAmp
What browser do you want to install (Choose as many as you want)?
[_] Internet Explorer
[_] Firefox
[_] Opera
[_] Netscape
What Other Programs do you want to install (Choose as many as you want)?
[_] OpenOffice
[_] AVG Free Antivirus
[_] Avast Antivirus
[_] NOD 32
[_] Sygate Free Personal Firewall
[_] ZoneAlarm Free Personal Firewall
Etc. etc. And, like with OS X, you can choose what drivers to install by default ... I used to avoid a thousand and one drivers by only installing my particular printer drivers (HP LaserJet 1020)
Sure, it'll take the install a bit longer, hell, it'll cost a bit more, and will need to be on a DVD, but to me, that's well worth the damn price.
That's like going to Starbucks and having them offer you several brands of coffee that aren't Starbucks.
You forget that Apple, of course, bundles only its own software and drivers, no one else's. (Of course, pre-Safari and OS X days you got Netscape and Microsoft Internet Explorer but that's quite awhile ago)
This would be the responsibility of the manufacturer. However, most prefer to cram their preferences down your throat and bundle what *they* want you to have. When you turn on your computer you get a load of crap-ware, most of which is usually only trial software.
Although your idea is a good one for manufacturers, the real solution is for people to take responsibility for themselves and download/purchase/install whatever program they want.
That's like going to Starbucks and having them offer you several brands of coffee that aren't Starbucks.
You forget that Apple, of course, bundles only its own software and drivers, no one else's. (Of course, pre-Safari and OS X days you got Netscape and Microsoft Internet Explorer but that's quite awhile ago)
This would be the responsibility of the manufacturer. However, most prefer to cram their preferences down your throat and bundle what *they* want you to have. When you turn on your computer you get a load of crap-ware, most of which is usually only trial software.
Although your idea is a good one for manufacturers, the real solution is for people to take responsibility for themselves and download/purchase/install whatever program they want.
here's an idea , put the links not the programs itself ( beside they should always be the last version.
about the QQ from users who dislike it ( A nice ToS or EULA would be perfect
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