Neowin.net

I'll edit it for you, thanks for picking this up

Hope you didn't mind my editing!

Thanks Neobond..

It needs a bit more editing. Read the last sentence.

Powertoys were created by Microsoft by employees in their free time.
It was never really throughly tested or an officially supported product.

After the big security push Microsoft no longer distributes unofficial employee created products on its website.
So Powertoys are dead.

I just want a decent photo resizer. I miss that powertoy.

Are you kidding me?

Kidding about what? You think it's alright for corporations to make blatantly false statements and then just slide off as if nothing is wrong? They basically lied to everyone who bought the Ultimate edition expecting to receive "cutting-edge programs", "innovative services" and "unique publications"? How much of that has turned out to be completely false lies?

Dreamscene and language packs are cutting edge and innovative and worthy of making a fuss?

Methinks somebody's MS-bashing just to be on the bandwagon.

As I've said before, anyone who's bought Ultimate just because of the extras is an idiot. I still stand by that assertion today. Exactly what type of "cutting edge programs" did you expect?

So anybody that bought Vista Ultimate for one of the main advertised features is an idiot? I'm sorry but that is just ridiculous. Microsoft deceived users and people are rightly annoyed. Heck, they release Powertoys for XP and yet they've barely done any better for Ultimate Extra despite hyping it up.

If you didn't notice, I pulled those terms off the Vista marketing materials. I think people expected Microsoft to keep their commitments. I think anyone who lets companies lie and cheat them are weak pushovers. You are always in control in a company/customer relationship, don't let Microsoft dictate the terms. They should be fined for their deceptive marketing practices (to the tune of a few billion dollars) and only then will they begin to realize that their crooked ways are not acceptable.

You both failed to answer my question.

Remember the Plus pack for 95? For XP? I never for one second deluded myself believing those Ultimate "extras" would turn out be anything more than that pointless crap. The announcement of DreamScene way back when only served to confirmed that.

So I'm gonna ask my question again: Exactly what type of "cutting edge programs" did you expect this time around? Y'know, some *must have* feature that won't work on or won't be backported to any other Vista version?

Seriously...do I have to spell it out? If it's a "must have" feature that's actually useful and nobody can live without it and it makes everybody's job easier, there's no way it's gonna be an exclusive. No way. From the get-go, those Extras could only possibly turn out to be fluff.

> I pulled those terms off the Vista marketing materials

So you've been had. Sounds like that was pretty easy.

> I think anyone who lets companies lie and cheat them are weak pushovers

...and I think you need to understand how marketing works. This is nothing new--for Microsoft, or anybody else. Don't confuse marketing material and press releases with binding legal agreements. No offense, but I'll take a guess--you're still in high school, with a twinkle in your eye and ready to change the world for the better, right?

Last edited by _dandy_ on 23 Sep 2007 - 15:28

LOL, damn you, I think you broke my sarcasm detector!

My guess is that at least 63% of all statistics is made up on the spot when they aren't backed by facts.

Yes, it could be 1%, but maybe just as likely 15.32% or 26.71% that saw it as a contributing factor when deciding between the editions instead of just going Business or Home Premium, and then it suddenly becomes much more of a problem here.

Same here & Agreed & Agreed

Well SP1 is due out in early 2008
I suppose MS will call that a xtra

Why can't they? Isn't it their product to decide what to do with? Or does it require Dreamscene to already be installed and doesn't provide an own implementation?

It's been available on my Windows Update dialog since 28th of August the MUI packs.

Ok - I partially agree with you - but I paid a lot of money for a product that doesn't do what it says on the tin.

is M$ going to refund me some cash - dont think so

Who cares about the extras? I do, for starters. I was expecting a lot more than TWO usable extras (Hold'Em and Dreamscene)... language packs? They should be in every version. Bitlocker? It needs a TPM chip (only available on some laptops and as as optional extra on some motherboards). It was hyped, whether rightly or wrongly, as one of the key features of Vista Ultimate - it even states to check back regularly for updates; only geologists would consider 9 months to be regularly.

I somewhat care as the extras was an added extra cost also care that the extras was promised and also the extras was 1 (one) of the ultimate selling points. That being said I feel somewhat Ripped off.

Maybe the fact that nobody cares about the extras is because there are no extras since the initial batch? Certainly nothing of any quality or usefulness.

You got Vista Ultimate for $50? Legally?

yes

Source?

I'm not sure why you feel inclined to say "just" another bullet point. When Microsoft has a product comparison sheet and you compare bullet points, any of them could be a quite important factor. If I need a Remote Desktop server, I can't just use Home Premium, but need Business. That's not "just" a bullet point to me, but an important distinction. Just like the Ultimate Extras was an important, unique, distinction for Ultimate beyond its merge of editions.

Microsoft employee's get a nice discount.

Yea, I said that if it was a selling feature to me, I'd be upset too.

Just because they never promised one extra would move from Beta to Final, doesn't mean they are totally blameless... I mean where are all the other "frequent" extras they led us to believe would be a key selling point of Ultimate?

Face it, Microsoft screwed it's customers.

If they aren't sure they can deliver anything at all by that rough date, they shouldn't go off spouting it in blogs. That'll just end up confusing and annoying their customers, and accounts for poor PR.

All you hear from users is how bad Vista sucks? I can say the same about 64bit, or I can say the same about XP before SP2 came out. Don't even get me started about iMacs. Many more are satisfied with the OS as it is than those who aren't. Those who are happy with Vista, however, don't go about pronouncing their satisfaction.

I'm not sure where you're getting this information. In checking my "Reliability Monitor" I don't see any of these issues where applications are crashing all the time.

The only 'crashes' I'm receiving on Vista x64 is the Beta TF2 client crashing. Otherwise, over the last month it's been the beta Trillian client that's crashing...

Otherwise, the only 'issue' I've found with Vista is that games don't usually have the same FPS as with other versions of Windows. However, with every release of my NVidia graphics driver... It only seems to get better.

The place I work for, we have several customers who have Vista on their boxes and they have all complained (that's about 10 different people there) and then there's my friends/family who have it and hate it. I know about 50 people total who have it and absolutely hate it, including me. I'm getting my information from people who use it, maybe you're not having problems, but plenty of people are. Normal every day users that I talk to, who aren't into computers don't like it.

I'd love to talk to your contacts that hate Vista and have many problems with it. Out of the 100 or so people I've talked to personally about it, only 1 was unhappy, and he was using a bootleg copy, so I didn't care what he thought.

Just throwing this out there; Ever considered it being one of your non-updated or non-vista compatible programs you've installed? Malware that's piled up over the years perhaps?

Interesting. As someone mentioned the fps in games is lower. Except for that Vista works flawlessly here (x64). Never had a program crash.

Vista has been out for years? Wow, I thought it just came out this year.

And yes, I've thought that it could be one of the apps that I've installed (or my friends, family, co-workers). But even on a fresh install, I still have apps like WMP crash out of no where. I'm pretty sure Microsoft makes WMP, don't they?

And what were you doing when it crashed? There's always an explanation

I had just logged in from a fresh install. So tell me how that makes sense?

Amen!

Erm no. The product was marketed with Extras being a key point of the product.

I bet a lot of customers bought Ultimate for the same reason. In all honesty, what else is there in Ultimate that isn't in Home Premium besides the Extras?

Bitlocker

Previous Versions

What is a home consumer going to need to use BitLocker for? That's more of a corporate thing, not a home consumer thing.

The whole point of Ultimate is it's Enterprise + Home Premium. If you're not going to use the Enterprise features, get Home Premium!

Rubbish. In my experience, the tech savvy people are hating it, while the donkeys who've purchased a new computer with it on, can't get enough of the thing, and won't admit how bad it is, probably because they've spent upwards of £500 on a new machine.

I agree mate.

I find Vista great if I ever get problems with it I'm able to fix it.
I'm even running the x64 edition

Funny that I've been having debates with people who think they're "tech savvy" but end up trashing Vista over exaggerated/untrue/FUD points. Maybe if more people actually gave it a chance they would have an opinion on it.

+1

I consider myself a very knowledgeable about computers and I work as a PC Technician. I much prefer Vista to XP after getting used to it since Beta 1. I think the majority of issues people have is because they are not giving it a fair chance and expect it to work the exact same way as XP. If you want an operating system the same as XP, then use XP. Don't expect Vista to be a clone of XP.

Last edited by TCLN Ryster on 21 Sep 2007 - 09:43

There are a few people like that floating around the Neowin forums. They usually refer to themselves as "Pro" or "Power" users.

You are absolutely right. I am a network tech and on all my computers at home and my computer on my desk at work I am running vista. I get no problems on vista what so ever.

it makes their E-PENIS BIGGER

Not everybody. Only the OS department of MS works on Operating systems. that's like 20% of the total MS company.

Chalk and cheese.

What does having write priviliges over system files have to do with "own"ing an OS. Nothing. Except they both use the word "own" but in slightly different contexts.

You claim system files are locked ownership with no workaround. I would like to consider myself a technical user (I've worked in tech support for quite a few years part-time including extensive work in programming and a fair bit of OS "hacking" etc) and so far I've come across no issues with Vista. Yes, you do need to take control of some system files that you may edit, ooooooooh, ONCE? and that 99% of users never should edit and should be actively protected against viral influences?!?!?

Just Google "system file ownership" (http://www.ocmodshop.com/ocmodshop.aspx?a=851 is the top result) and see if that helps.

Anyway, your post seems to imply you won't by an OS from Microsoft, because they still "own" your files -- at least, that's the only interpretation that would justify why you shouldn't by an OS, yet that isn't true because your computer OWNS your own files, right?!

Microsoft don't supply you with the Vista source code either, does that mean you don't "own" it too?

You claim you won't "ever" buy an OS. I find this hard to believe. Already Microsoft are making pirates lives very difficult. With Product Activation and now WGA, and who knows what more is to come, pirated copies of Windows are heavily disabled.

At the end of the day, I use Vista on both my main machines. It's as stable and rock solid as XP, yet I still have many grievances with it... Mainly the fact that there doesn't APPEAR to be much difference between it and XP and you kind of have to wonder what Microsoft had been tinkering with for those 5+ years.

If you're going to knock Vista, have a good reason -- and don't make sweeping statements like you'll never buy an OS!

ROFL, typical answer from "so-full-of-crap" people,...

Pip'