Dell No Longer Supports Vista x64...and Other Rants
Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 October 2007 - 10:05 · 118 comments & 68339 views
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(9 replies)
#1 Posted by Neobond on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:12
- All this makes it so much harder for people like me to go fully x64. I hear too many complaints mainly due to poor driver support.
Looks like it will be a while yet before it is mainstream. I know quite a few people with x64 PC's who opted to go for an x86 OS instead to cut out the aforementioned problems. -
#1.1 Posted by Boogiman on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:39
- Uhm.... relevant!?
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64 -
#1.2 Posted by Kushan on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:29
- Quote - (Boogiman said @ #1.1)Uhm.... relevant!?
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It's relevant because if Dell drops support for it, less people will upgrade to it and thus driver programmers will be less inclined to program for it, thus causing a problem. -
#1.3 Posted by +TCLN Ryster on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:49
- Quote - (Boogiman said @ #1.1)Uhm.... relevant!?
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It seems Dell's lack of support for x64 is more than relevant to the overall lack of support in x64 across the whole industry. -
#1.4 Posted by MioTheGreat on 24 Oct 2007 - 14:47
- Quote - (TCLN Ryster said @ #1.3)Quote - (Boogiman said @ #1.1)Uhm.... relevant!?
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It seems Dell's lack of support for x64 is more than relevant to the overall lack of support in x64 across the whole industry.
HP has good x64 support. My machine has full x64 drivers and all of their software.....I only have the Core Duo in this laptop instead of the Core 2 Duo, so I can't actually use x64, but my point is that they have all of this on their website available for download. -
#1.5 Posted by Amodin on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:03
- Quote - (Kushan said @ #1.2)Quote - (Boogiman said @ #1.1)Uhm.... relevant!?
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It's relevant because if Dell drops support for it, less people will upgrade to it and thus driver programmers will be less inclined to program for it, thus causing a problem.
Christ you make it sound like Dell is the only provider... when in fact they not only fail at consumer end, but also on the business end too. They are about to be seriously dropped from the company I work for, because of militaristic contracts, sub-par support (similar to the above in the article), and ridiculous misc. things I could go into - but I just don't have that much time in the day. -
#1.6 Posted by Kushan on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:42
- Quote - (Amodin said @ #1.5)Quote - (Kushan said @ #1.2)Quote - (Boogiman said @ #1.1)Uhm.... relevant!?
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It's relevant because if Dell drops support for it, less people will upgrade to it and thus driver programmers will be less inclined to program for it, thus causing a problem.
Christ you make it sound like Dell is the only provider... when in fact they not only fail at consumer end, but also on the business end too. They are about to be seriously dropped from the company I work for, because of militaristic contracts, sub-par support (similar to the above in the article), and ridiculous misc. things I could go into - but I just don't have that much time in the day.
That doesn't change the fact that they're by far the BIGGEST supplier of PC's out there. -
#1.7 Posted by NPGMBR on 24 Oct 2007 - 16:35
- I gave up on Dell a few years ago when they decided to give up on the entire DJ line and just told customers to deal with it.
That was the last time I invested in Dell because I was not going to put myself in the position of being screwed over again. Now, all I have to do is avoid being screwed by someone else. -
#1.8 Posted by Ricmacas on 24 Oct 2007 - 18:46
- I have full x64 support, with all hardware working. No downloads needed. How ? Ask for a Ubuntu x64 cd, install, and you're now fully x64
.
Ubuntu x64 version :
- Full hardware support
- Full performance
- Full x64.
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(1 reply)
#2 Posted by RichardK on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:14
- None of the Dell systems (OptiPlex and Latitudes) we have gotten lately have a Windows Vista logo on them. They all have Windows XP logos, and mention nothing of Windows Vista.
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#3 Posted by virtorio on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:21
- An interesting read for sure, not so sure it belongs on the front page, but interesting none the less.
We have some Dell machines (both Desktops and Laptops - and not cheap ones either, but business grade machines) at work and they really are some lousy machines.
It's crazy they would cut off x64 support like that. What are they thinking?
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#4 Posted by hcsprakers on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:25
- I've found that Dell's support has fallen off the last couple of years, I bought my first Dell about 10 years ago and at that time there was no problems, but about five years later when Windows Me came out the service had really gone down, and the last time I talked to dell rep I cut the conversation off and sought help elsewhere. Needless to say I've probably bought my last Dell.
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#5 Posted by markstock on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:29
- I did notice x64 drivers were missing at Dell. I have a Optiplex 745 with Vista Ultimate x64 and have had no problems for the last year. I also have a Dell 5100cn color laser printers and I noticed the x64 drivers were gone luckily I got the latest drivers before they stabbed us in the back. Sad to say, but I think Dell is going down the tubes, removing x64 support is outrageous and short sighted. On another note it all started with Kevin Rollins and the CFO who both should be in jail, but like most executives they are allowed to get off scot free and retain their millions will the workers and customers have to suffer for their cheating/corrupt ways. I have been a loyal Dell customer for over 10 years and have bought many systems for both home and work, plus all the Dell recommendations to my fellow co-workers and friends, but I am not sure if I can trust Dell anymore. Home Server is coming out soon and HP is looking good, plus the fact I have not heard one word from Dell on their Home Server plans.
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(1 reply)
#6 Posted by Elite_graphix on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:39
- Its a good job i purchased a HP laptop-which was vista based -and when i jumped ship to x64 vista-i found a full-i mean full set of x64 drivers on hp's website.
alot of people who havent used x64 vista-alot of drivers are available off windows update.
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#7 Posted by Barney on 24 Oct 2007 - 10:40
- I use Vista x64 Business on one of my own-built desktops and have not had any issues with it, or driver support, as it will run some 32-bit drivers and programs with out issues. IMHO, I believe that 64-bit will eventually catch on and become the next generation of computing, but with decisions like this, it is going to take longer to adopt.
Barney
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#8 Posted by altermind on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:01
- welcome to dell. my first and last system I got from them had a faulty psu. then another.... THEN ANOTHER. at that point I got a full refund after waiting a month.
there dell axim however rocks my socks lol and I've had no problems with there screens... but it's not actually dell who makes both of those
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(8 replies)
#9 Posted by bibutteryboy on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:06
- How is this front page news anyway? It's one persons's experience with Dell Support. I
as far as the DVD drive goes, go spend the $30.00 bucks for a new one. and for that matter, you should have gotten the drivers before you reinstalled. Rule #1 when reformatting you're computer. AND, if you do testing for other companies, why haven't you been keeping up on updating your drivers in the first place? You've gone a full year without any driver updates?
This isn't front page news. It's not even an opinionated news piece. It's a rant. Nothing more. x64 supports was mentioned in the very last portion of this rant. Up until then it as nothing but techsupport woes.
I have a 1991 Ford Ranger that's been giving me fit's lately. Do you mind if I post my troubles on the front page?
Last edited by bibutteryboy on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:17 -
#9.1 Posted by mayamaniac on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:58
- I agree, this piece belongs on a blog, not front page news. He could've sum up the whole article in a few sentences and delete 90% of the rant on Dell tech support.
I had the same thought about the DVD drive when reading about it, its $30 freaking bucks for a better DVD drive then the one that came with the Dell.
As for 64bit, what drivers aren't working with the Dell? He didn't even say. And when you run the Vista DVD, it checks for compatibility and let you know before you install it.Quote -Where do we go from here?
Umm, try returning "Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition" before the 30 day return policy runs out. And don't wait 9 hours after it expired to do so. We don't want to see another front page rant about that.
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#9.2 Posted by HawkMan on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:21
- bah blogs this and blogs that.
I'm not interested in Blogs, I don't mind a decent editorial on a news site though. -
#9.3 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:21
- Quote - (mayamaniac said @ #9.1)I agree, this piece belongs on a blog, not front page news. He could've sum up the whole article in a few sentences and delete 90% of the rant on Dell tech support.
I had the same thought about the DVD drive when reading about it, its $30 freaking bucks for a better DVD drive then the one that came with the Dell.
As for 64bit, what drivers aren't working with the Dell? He didn't even say. And when you run the Vista DVD, it checks for compatibility and let you know before you install it.Quote -Where do we go from here?
Umm, try returning "Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition" before the 30 day return policy runs out. And don't wait 9 hours after it expired to do so. We don't want to see another front page rant about that.
Almost all news can be summed up in a few sentences, that's why you can just skip through what you don't care to read
Also when you're someone who is living on a SEVERELY restricted budget trying to put your wife through college for her second degree you can't always afford $30. Most of the time I can't even afford cheap disposable razors.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
As for 64-bit drivers I posted a bit further down what doesn't work. Essentially if I ever lose my copy of my printer or sound drivers I'm screwed.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide. -
#9.4 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:47
- Quote - (bibutteryboy said @ #9)How is this front page news anyway? It's one persons's experience with Dell Support. I
as far as the DVD drive goes, go spend the $30.00 bucks for a new one. and for that matter, you should have gotten the drivers before you reinstalled. Rule #1 when reformatting you're computer. AND, if you do testing for other companies, why haven't you been keeping up on updating your drivers in the first place? You've gone a full year without any driver updates?
This isn't front page news. It's not even an opinionated news piece. It's a rant. Nothing more. x64 supports was mentioned in the very last portion of this rant. Up until then it as nothing but techsupport woes.
I have a 1991 Ford Ranger that's been giving me fit's lately. Do you mind if I post my troubles on the front page?
Hence why I ended the title of my piece with ...and Other Rants.
I made it clear from the get go that I was going to go off on a rant Dennis Miller style.
Long-winded but in the end the point gets through. -
#9.5 Posted by hotrod on 25 Oct 2007 - 03:03
- [quote]Where do we go from here?[/quote]
Umm, try returning "Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition" before the 30 day return policy runs out. And don't wait 9 hours after it expired to do so. We don't want to see another front page rant about that.[/quote]
Almost all news can be summed up in a few sentences, that's why you can just skip through what you don't care to read
Also when you're someone who is living on a SEVERELY restricted budget trying to put your wife through college for her second degree you can't always afford $30. Most of the time I can't even afford cheap disposable razors.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
As for 64-bit drivers I posted a bit further down what doesn't work. Essentially if I ever lose my copy of my printer or sound drivers I'm screwed.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.[/quote]
Why would you offer to purchase an extended warranty if $30.00 for a new drive was too much for you to afford? -
#9.6 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 25 Oct 2007 - 07:22
- Quote - (hotrod said @ #9.5)Why would you offer to purchase an extended warranty if $30.00 for a new drive was too much for you to afford?
Because I have a credit account through Dell. Adding another year of warranty would add only a couple of dollars per month to my account.
I do not have $30 dollars outright to spend on a new drive. I can however afford to pay an additional $2 each month for a warranty that is supposed to provide same day on-site repair services, especially since my next payment isn't due for a couple more weeks.
Either way it's a moot point as Dell refused to allow me to extend the warranty in any case. -
#9.7 Posted by mayamaniac on 25 Oct 2007 - 11:04
- Quote - (Morpheus Phreak said @ #9.3)Almost all news can be summed up in a few sentences, that's why you can just skip through what you don't care to read
It's hard to just skip the rant because you put the Vista 64bit part at the end of the article, 90% of the article at the beginning is the rant.Quote -Also when you're someone who is living on a SEVERELY restricted budget trying to put your wife through college for her second degree you can't always afford $30. Most of the time I can't even afford cheap disposable razors.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
No, it isn't covered when the warranty is expired. It is not their problem that you didn't buy the extension. If I buy a TV from Best Buy, and when I try to return it on the 31st day, one day after the return policy expired, I don't expect them to take it back either. Now they can be cool about it and cover it for you anyway even though the warranty expired, but they don't have to.Quote -As for 64-bit drivers I posted a bit further down what doesn't work. Essentially if I ever lose my copy of my printer or sound drivers I'm screwed.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.
I can't even find drivers for Vista 32bit for my printer, never mind Vista 64bit. Dell can't be the only vendor that's not supporting Vista 64bit. -
#9.8 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 25 Oct 2007 - 21:11
- Quote - (mayamaniac said @ #9.7)Quote - (Morpheus Phreak said @ #9.3)Almost all news can be summed up in a few sentences, that's why you can just skip through what you don't care to read
It's hard to just skip the rant because you put the Vista 64bit part at the end of the article, 90% of the article at the beginning is the rant.Quote -Also when you're someone who is living on a SEVERELY restricted budget trying to put your wife through college for her second degree you can't always afford $30. Most of the time I can't even afford cheap disposable razors.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
No, it isn't covered when the warranty is expired. It is not their problem that you didn't buy the extension. If I buy a TV from Best Buy, and when I try to return it on the 31st day, one day after the return policy expired, I don't expect them to take it back either. Now they can be cool about it and cover it for you anyway even though the warranty expired, but they don't have to.Quote -As for 64-bit drivers I posted a bit further down what doesn't work. Essentially if I ever lose my copy of my printer or sound drivers I'm screwed.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.
I can't even find drivers for Vista 32bit for my printer, never mind Vista 64bit. Dell can't be the only vendor that's not supporting Vista 64bit.
On a legality basis you are very far off in terms of warranty support.
If I purchase an item that fails repeatedly within the warranty period and they refuse me service because of a 3 strikes policy they have they are still legally required to replace the item upon the third failure.
That drive had already failed twice and they had been notified. Legally they had an obligation to replace that item since the original failure and notification of that failure happened within the warranty period.
Now if it had been a first failure I would agree with you and so would the law.
Also the post was re-formatted by the staff in a way that I approve of. They added the bolding down below at the one week later part. That makes it much easier to know that a new part of the story starts there.
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#10 Posted by spotts on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:38
- Man thats harsh. My experience with Dell Notebooks over the last year has been nothing but excellent.
But if I purchased a system supplied by Dell with Windows Vista 64 bit and they pulled the drivers from their site I would be very upset too. What a stupid thing for Dell to do. They could at least leave the old drivers there for download.
When you get a Dell PC they give you the Windows CD but also a CD with all drivers for the system as well. This will not be the updated drivers but at least it will work the same as when the unit was shipped. also most drivers can be downloaded from the makers site. An example might be intel network drivers can be downloaded from intel direct. I often update drivers directly from the maker as Dell often is many months behind.
Hope you get your system up and running or it looks like you will need to get Vista 32bit installed.
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#11 Posted by starless.bible.black on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:42
- I must have been really lucky with the last two Dell purchases. I had some problems with my desktop PC, including power supply and hard drive. But, whenever I called them I did not wait longer than 5 min each, called even past midnight. I told them about the symptoms and what I had done to narrow down the cause. I always called when I knew exactly what I needed, e.g. a replacement for my psu. there was no problem to convince the techrep about the loud noise of the psu. Yes, they did run me through the diagnostics with the hdd. But at the end of each call they gave me a confirmation number for the shipment of the replacement. The replacements arrived no later than 3 days after the call (DHL). Same with my notebook for which I asked for os disks and later a battery problem.
again, I may be just lucky, but my experience with Dell in the last 24 months was excellent. I built my PCs for a while before that, because a couple years ago I had similar problems with Dell that you experienced. For me they got better. Hope it will change for you as well, just in case you ever buy from them again.
tgd
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(3 replies)
#12 Posted by phantasmorph on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:51
- I've never had a problem with any of the...5 Dell systems I've owned, one of which I'm posting this on right now, and it's a *gasp* XPS 410, running Vista 32-bit. Then again, I never decided to throw a bitch-fit because a company wouldn't support some decision I made outside of the original shipped purchase. x64 wasn't an option when you originally purchased the system, so what exactly leads you to believe they'd supply you with drivers? And not only that, but why can't you do a little investigation on your part and download the drivers from the original part makers? The only thing you might have a problem with is the onboard sound. Motherboard and RAID controller all work just peachy with standard current Intel drivers, as does the ethernet. In fact, the *only* driver I use that is Dell supplied is the onboard audio driver, and we have the exact same system. So what exactly are you having a problem with?
And why isn't this marked with an 'Editorial' tag? I clicked this expecting to read news, not just a long-winded personal rant.
Last edited by phantasmorph on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:03 -
#12.1 Posted by colinbo on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:07
- To run along the same logic line then they shouldn't provide me an option to put in 3GB or more of RAM since it really can't be effectively used under a 32-bit operating system. We are planning to upgrade our OptiPlex-based development workstations to 64-bit and this puts a wrench in the plan. Sure you can grab the drivers from elsewhere, but what happens when they refuse to troubleshoot hardware problems because you are running an unsupported OS (that was previously supported)? It's not an unlikely scenario indeed as anyone who has dealt with vendor support might have experienced. Most companies are forced to phase out support over time to help existing customers make a transition. Dropping support for x64 without any notice is irresponsible and leaves customers like us up the creek without a paddle. It's also more than just the Audio driver as well, it's the OpenManage client, the BIOS update process (are they going to drop support for running the BIOS update under 64-bit too while they are at it?), and the possibility of seeing a number of issues that cannot be resolved without some degree of x64 support.
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#12.2 Posted by phantasmorph on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:19
- As far as I'm aware, Vista x64 was never an option for the XPS line, hence there were never any 64-bit drivers available for it. Would it be just as fair for me to throw a fit because Dell doesn't supply me with their own drivers for linux if/when I boot into that OS?
And I fail to see how this is relevant at all, considering they sell systems that ship with Vista x64, such as the Precision Workstation 690, which has 64-bit drivers available for download. So they've not dropped support for anything of the sort. -
#12.3 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:11
- Quote - (phantasmorph said @ #12.2)As far as I'm aware, Vista x64 was never an option for the XPS line, hence there were never any 64-bit drivers available for it. Would it be just as fair for me to throw a fit because Dell doesn't supply me with their own drivers for linux if/when I boot into that OS?
And I fail to see how this is relevant at all, considering they sell systems that ship with Vista x64, such as the Precision Workstation 690, which has 64-bit drivers available for download. So they've not dropped support for anything of the sort.
Phantasamorph, maybe I didn't make it clear enough in the original editorial.
Part of the Vista Logo Requirements is that you MUST (yes that is in the contract, MUST) supply x64 drivers for all systems sold that have x64 hardware, even if they ship with Vista 32-bit out of the box.
Dell already had those drivers up and posted. They chose to remove them within the last week after having updates coming for almost a year.
I wouldn't have cared so much if they didn't update the drivers, but now they have completely pulled the plug on systems they were still selling as of last week.
As for what drivers they pulled that are important to me?
As of last week there was a Vista 64-bit version of the driver for my A922 All-In-One Dell Printer. This week? Gone
How about my sound card drivers to enable more than just basic "stereo" sound? Gone
There's also my wifes PC. I now cannot upgrade her to Vista 64 because of Dell pulling the support from their website. She has a Dimension E520 that we bought for her to use as both a rendering machine and for her own personal use. I had intended to upgrade her to 8GB of RAM for her birthday this weekend. Now what do I do?
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#13 Posted by Islander on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:09
- Well, I never bought anything from Dell, and seeing this article, I never will. If everyone does so, then some people end up understanding that it's not only about selling, but also about quality and support. I went away from HP because of a similar reason, and they can build the best and cheapest and most amazing printer or scanner or whatever, I am not going to buy a single piece from them anymore. I'm the one who decides who to give my money to. So are you, drop Dell, get anything else. Make this world a better place
(Wow, sounds like tv spot... or scientology....)
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(5 replies)
#14 Posted by Chicane-UK on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:16
- I remeber in my last job, we had Dell come in to try and sell us some servers. When they said "You've never experienced computing till you've experienced Dell" I knew I never wanted to deal with them again!
This is a bit of an interesting predicament though and it really seems like big vendors like Dell are starting to rebel against Microsoft. Its easy enough to rail against them for not providing drivers but then from a support point of view the 64bit / 32bit mashup must be an absolute NIGHTMARE if you have ma and pa 'new user' being guided through driver downloads and updates over the phone.
You can see why folks like Apple are making such huge profits in recent years. With a sealed box, with a single version of the operating system, support is going to be FAR less complicated.
Will be interested to see where it goes from here. -
#14.1 Posted by +DrunkenMaster on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:28
- You forgot to add, Leopard is fully 64-bit out of the box and device driver support to boot.
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#14.2 Posted by phantasmorph on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:30
- I dunno, I think 17,772 topics in just the OS X 10.4 Installation and Setup forum speaks volumes for that theory. Guess there are people all over that can't figure out how to install an OS properly...
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#14.3 Posted by +GreyWolfSC on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:46
- Quote - (DrunkenMaster said @ #14.1)You forgot to add, Leopard is fully 64-bit out of the box and device driver support to boot.
Sure, as long as you don't mind throwing the computer out and buying a new one when you want to upgrade something. -
#14.4 Posted by MioTheGreat on 24 Oct 2007 - 14:49
- Quote - (DrunkenMaster said @ #14.1)You forgot to add, Leopard is fully 64-bit out of the box and device driver support to boot.
When you have to support about 3 different setups, it's not much of a feat to get good 64-bit drivers going. -
#14.5 Posted by +DrunkenMaster on 25 Oct 2007 - 00:59
- Quote - (phantasmorph said @ #14.2)I dunno, I think 17,772 topics in just the OS X 10.4 Installation and Setup forum speaks volumes for that theory. Guess there are people all over that can't figure out how to install an OS properly...
I can't comment on idiots having problems installing OS X. And 17,000 odd posts out of several million users (and multiple posts by a few users) is hardly representative. I'm sure there are far more people having Windows installation problems, or Vista problems, if this is the issue you're trying to point out. I've always inserted DVD, gotten a cup of coffee and 10 minutes later OS X Tiger is installed. I'm sure Leopard will be the same.
However, your post doesn't even mention the issue brought up in parent thread or my post. OS X Leopard supports 64-bit right out of the box. No device driver problems. No support issues. Nothing. No new software to install, no breakage of many popular apps. Nothing.
Feel or react however you wish. I use OS X and Windows. OS X does have some problems but OSes are complex enough anyways that they're bound to have problems wether its one company that makes it or open source. My daily use of OS X is far less frustrating than my 15 years of Windows use.
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#15 Posted by bucko on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:26
- lol Dell is annoying with all the software crap they put on anyway, I built my new computer, running XP x64 and Vista x32 side by side no problems yet
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(1 reply)
#16 Posted by Victor Hugo on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:32
- I think it is an entirely legitimate request on the part of the customer that if a vendor is selling a box with 64bit innards, they should at the very least supply the 64bit drivers whether or not they choose to support it is another matter, but they should make them available for the hardcore users out there. it seems a bit of a waste to flog a box with a 64 bit cpu which can never be fully utilised. just flog 32bit and be done with it if not.
i agree with the point chicane uk made about apple. i'm so frustrated with trying to get even the most simple things working with vista (and i'm talking about 32 bit drivers) that i can see why more people are buying an apple computer.
i'd personally find it very difficult moving over to apple, not just because of learning a whole new way of doing things, but the cost of having to buy all new software, such as a decent office suite, but that said, if i was buying a new computer for the first time, i'd buy apple. -
#16.1 Posted by Ledgem on 24 Oct 2007 - 17:50
- I recently received a Macbook Pro, and felt the same way you did. A computer is a tool, and the OS is nothing more than a table to work on. The hardware on this system is very nice, and I considered using Bootcamp, figuring I'd stay in Windows most of the time. I also bought Parallels. For my first week with the system, I must have been using Windows XP through Parallels 90% of the time. Then I started finding alternatives to my software on the Mac OS side. It's been a week or two since I last used Windows through this system.
I'd recommend VMWare Fusion over Parallels, these days. Regardless, the point is that modern Apple systems are fast enough that you can virtualize with barely a performance hit. Unless you're a hard-core gamer or have certain specialized needs, virtualizing will let you slowly transition without losing any functionality. If my desktop system were faster, I'd probably have transitioned it fully to Linux doing a similar method.
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#17 Posted by msmcougar on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:37
- The same warranty issue happened to my wife and her ThinkPad T42. The power adapter brick had worn loose and there were exposed raw wires coming out. She called Lenovo (not IBM anymore). The tech informed her that even thought the problem as something we had seen for a few days, because she called 7 hours after the 3-year warranty expired, she would not be able to get a replacement under the warranty. That's a sure-fire way to lose long-time customer loyalty.
Both she and I were quite upset to say the least! I used to love IBM's tech support for the two Thinkpads that I've had. I've always thought that they were top-notch, until they sold out to Lenovo. Maybe all consumer PC companies are that bad these days.... I don't know.
I'm lately turning into the do-it-yourself type. In fact I just ordered parts to build anther PC myself.
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#18 Posted by cloudstrife13 on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:59
- This is why I want Windows Seven to be 64bit only that way we will have driver support... That was Microsofts plan but they think to many people with 32bit systems will buy into it so they want to sell more. Most computers in the last few years have 64bit and 2-3 years from now I don't see it that hard to have a 64bit OS, the people with 32bit CPUs probably will want to run XP or Vista anyways...
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#19 Posted by xMorpheousx416 on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:07
- Believe it... I've helped a few with Dell's. They truly have just as many support horror stories as the rest of them do, though they have a ways to go to catch up with Gateway.
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#20 Posted by Croquant on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:12
- At least his incompetent tech support team spoke understandable English. Nothing like not being able to understand your incompetent tech support person. Don't you hate it when that happens?
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(1 reply)
#21 Posted by archer75 on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:14
- I have been running Vista x64 since release. I have no issues with drivers. Anytime 32bit drivers come out so do 64bit drivers.
I do have 32bit Vista on my HTPC but I prefer 64bit. It just feels more robust, faster and more stable. -
#21.1 Posted by Baked on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:24
- Quote - (archer75 said @ #21)I have been running Vista x64 since release. I have no issues with drivers. Anytime 32bit drivers come out so do 64bit drivers.
I do have 32bit Vista on my HTPC but I prefer 64bit. It just feels more robust, faster and more stable.
Yep same here been running Vista Ultimate x64 since the betas and nevr had a issue really.
Sure the MB AC97 sound driver was crap until about may....but it did still work. And after all MS isn't to blame for poor driver support....how long did these hardware vendors know vista was coming for ????
Vista x64 rox my socks
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#22 Posted by +GreyWolfSC on 24 Oct 2007 - 13:43
- All of the quoted e-mails from support that are listed look like they were written with English as a second language. The first e-mail that didn't make sense and had nothing to do with my question would have been answered with an immediate order cancellation.
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(7 replies)
#23 Posted by Foub on 24 Oct 2007 - 14:13
- Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
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#23.1 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:14
- Quote - (Foub said @ #23)Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
Yes I am working with my contacts at Microsoft to hopefully set Dell straight on this. -
#23.2 Posted by Amodin on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:31
- Quote - (Foub said @ #23)Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
Dell can write their own contracts. -
#23.3 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:35
- Quote - (Amodin said @ #23.2)Quote - (Foub said @ #23)Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial. -
#23.4 Posted by Amodin on 24 Oct 2007 - 17:13
- Quote - (Morpheus Phreak said @ #23.3)Quote - (Amodin said @ #23.2)Quote - (Foub said @ #23)Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Odd, I will have my Dell Rep verify again for me as well as my software vendor telling me the same thing. -
#23.5 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 17:28
- Quote - (Amodin said @ #23.4)Quote - (Morpheus Phreak said @ #23.3)Quote - (Amodin said @ #23.2)Quote - (Foub said @ #23)Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Odd, I will have my Dell Rep verify again for me as well as my software vendor telling me the same thing.
From what I'm hearing you won't get a response from your Dell Rep other than they no longer have to provide drivers.
That's only partially correct. They have dropped themselves from the Vista Logo program with new PC's it seems, but they are still obligated to provide the support for PC's that they already shipped as part of the Logo Program. -
#23.6 Posted by HawkMan on 24 Oct 2007 - 18:37
- Quote - (Morpheus Phreak said @ #23.5)Quote - (Amodin said @ #23.4)Quote - (Morpheus Phreak said @ #23.3)Quote - (Amodin said @ #23.2)Quote - (Foub said @ #23)Did you inform Microsoft that Dell was in violation of their contract?
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Odd, I will have my Dell Rep verify again for me as well as my software vendor telling me the same thing.
From what I'm hearing you won't get a response from your Dell Rep other than they no longer have to provide drivers.
That's only partially correct. They have dropped themselves from the Vista Logo program with new PC's it seems, but they are still obligated to provide the support for PC's that they already shipped as part of the Logo Program.
It's too bad that the regular customers don't understand what it entails that the Dell computers don't have the vista certification logo. -
#23.7 Posted by Morpheus Phreak on 24 Oct 2007 - 18:51
- Quote - (HawkMan said @ #23.6)It's too bad that the regular customers don't understand what it entails that the Dell computers don't have the vista certification logo.
I completely agree.
That's part of why I felt it was important to get this story out there.
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(1 reply)
#24 Posted by daniel_rh on 24 Oct 2007 - 14:29
- Dell is good for the pre-sale not the post-sale
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#25 Posted by Masters on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:16
- I used dell for 2 years while working as a Network Admin for a school district in California. I never had a problem with Dell Support. We actually DROPPED HP because of shipping delays and poor support.
Last week I spilt sprite on my keyboard on an airplane. I got online with dell online chat the next day and had a replacement arrive 1 1/2 days later at no cost to my self.
Dell will not support any operating system the machine does not ship with, FYI. Though I don't know if you customized your drivers based on your machine. If indeed Dell did stop supporting x64 I think that is a bad decision as well.
You experience with purchasing through dell vs building your own computer though sounds novice. You didn't think to extend your warranty. If you had built your own you would have had to pay for your DVD drive your self anyway. Instead dell replaced your drive for free.
On the other hand dell has always offered poor driver support. My XPS M1710 only has very old drivers listed on their website for x32 bit.
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#26 Posted by markstock on 24 Oct 2007 - 15:19
- Don't you have to wonder why Dell is doing this? Are they trying to save money? x64 drivers is a small piece of their total expenses, plus now you are going to lose some business because of this. If they are trying to save money this way they are in rough shape. It is amazing how far Dell has fallen. HP is eating their lunch and Carly has to be smiling because she has to get some credit for HP's turn around because of the some of the decisions she made, some good some maybe bad. And given the fact x64 will be the norm at some point mak
I've always been one of those do-it-yourself, "hardcore" PC guys. I believed that the only good desktop PC was one you built yourself, and that's just what I've done for the last 10 years.
Then I found an incredible deal online through Dell last September. I realized that for under $1000 I could spec out and build a machine that would cost me a few hundred more to build myself. At that point I should have remembered the old adage, "if it's too good to be true..."
However, being the sucker that I am for a good deal, I ordered the PC. A Dell XPS 410 with Intel Core2Duo E6600 (x64 CPU, this will come into play later), 3GB of RAM, 500GB of HD space, and all the usual other accoutrements. The Dell site stated that the estimated ship date for the item was late September. Great, a 2-week lead-time shouldn't be a problem.
Then came the order detail e-mail. In the e-mail I was told that my order was to be delayed by a month. The earliest ship date was now mid-October. So I e-mailed Dell wondering why their site shows one date, yet their instant Order Confirmed e-mail showed yet another.
The response I received was as follows:
I understand from your e-mail that you want to check the credit status of your order I would like to inform you that the order lies in the hold status as the authorization from the dell prefered account is still pending. I would request you to kindly wait for 24 hours so that status will change."
My question at this point is who is reading my e-mail? I had asked why the site shows one status and the e-mail another. Never did I ask anything regarding my account. I wrote support another e-mail trying to be more clear. Once again I received a somewhat canned reply:
Now I'm really wondering if any at Dell Support reads anything before they reply. I already knew the estimated shipping date. My issue was why their site was still giving false dates for shipping newly ordered systems. I wrote Dell a few more times and they ended up giving me a $100 Dell coupon & upgraded my shipping. The system ended up being delayed one last time, but finally shipped on October 13 and arrived on October 18.
Why all the fuss over a simple PC you ask? I test software for multiple companies and needed a testbed for both 32-bit and 64-bit software. To me this was a mission critical PC and Dell was failing to deliver, especially since the XPS line is supposed to be their top end systems.
Now before anyone gets upset and states that I should have ordered from the Dell Small Business site I'd like to point something out. The Dell Dimension 9200 & the Dell XPS 410 are the same machine with a different label on the top. The XPS systems are supposed to have the top-tier support out of all of the Dell systems.
Now flash forward almost 1-year. I haven't had a single issue with this system until August 2007. It seems the DVD-Burner has decided to stop working properly. It randomly drops out of Explorer, and sometimes doesn't show up during POST. I run through the usual diagnostics (checking my connections, changing power leads, etc.) and it still doesn't work.
At this point I decide to call XPS Support and they make me re-run through the diagnostics while I'm on the phone with them. The XPS Support tech thinks a firmware flash will fix the issue. So I do the flash and sure enough, the drive is alive again, for a month.
September is back and it's been almost a full year since I placed my order. I wake up one morning and want to burn a CD for a road trip, and the drive fails and disappears from Explorer, again. I run through my diagnostics again and it's behaving the same way. I call up XPS Support and once again they refuse to replace the drive but insist I re-flash the firmware again. I flash the firmware and sure enough it works again. I tell the tech this is what happened before, but he states it will stay fixed this time. I continue to argue and he tells me that they require 3 calls about the same issue before they can send a replacement. I request a supervisor and the tech hangs up on me.
I decided to be patient and see if he was right, if not it will fail soon enough and I can request a replacement. So another month goes by. I go on a trip to Microsoft in October for a few days. I come home the night of October 13 around 11:30pm and startup my PC. I notice the drive is missing from POST again. I call the Dell XPS Support line, and it turns out that Dell doesn't have 24/7 tech support as they claim. So I go to bed aggravated, and go to sleep intending to call them first thing in the morning.
The next morning I pick up the phone and call the XPS Support line. I wait only a few minutes and then I'm connected with a Support Agent. I detail my issue and he stops me half-way through and lets me know that he will not be able to assist me. I ask why, and he states because I am out of warranty. Sure enough my warranty expired as of 11:59pm on October 13. I was literally 9 hours out of warranty.
I asked the technician if I could purchase a warranty extension and he stated that I could have, but once you are out of warranty you can no longer purchase extensions. I then proceed to argue with the technician for over an hour. After all I had requested a replacement drive multiple times and had been turned down, and the drive had also failed while in warranty. After the end of an hour he finally agrees to setup an exchange. I receive the new drive, and it seems all is well with the world.
One Week Later...
So now I'm thinking everything will be ok. I decide to do some OS testing and validation, and so I do a fresh install of Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition. The install finishes and my system reboots with in-box drivers for almost all of my hardware. The first thing I do is go to the Dell Support site and download drivers, or do I? It seems that Dell has decided to stop supporting all 64-bit editions of Windows, thus nothing to download.
I make a post on their forums asking if anyone knows if it's temporary and I receive this response from a Dell employee:
I mention to the Dell employee that he must be mistaken as that would violate their Vista Logo contract with Microsoft. At this point the Dell employee replied tersely with the following:
At this point I'm stumped and a bit angry. After all the OEM Logo requirements state, "OEMs using x64 implementations must have signed drivers available to end users if shipping a 32-bit version of Windows Vista on the system."
By removing their x64 driver support they have now violated their contract with Microsoft. Any x64-based systems they sell now with the logo are illegal. One can only help but wonder, why would Dell put themselves in this position?
I'll kindly step down from my Soapbox now, but I ask one question to all of you.
Where do we go from here?