Let me step onto my own personal soapbox for a minute.
I've always been one of those do-it-yourself, "hardcore" PC guys. I believed that the only good desktop PC was one you built yourself, and that's just what I've done for the last 10 years.
Then I found an incredible deal online through Dell last September. I realized that for under $1000 I could spec out and build a machine that would cost me a few hundred more to build myself. At that point I should have remembered the old adage, "if it's too good to be true..."
I've always been one of those do-it-yourself, "hardcore" PC guys. I believed that the only good desktop PC was one you built yourself, and that's just what I've done for the last 10 years.
Then I found an incredible deal online through Dell last September. I realized that for under $1000 I could spec out and build a machine that would cost me a few hundred more to build myself. At that point I should have remembered the old adage, "if it's too good to be true..."
However, being the sucker that I am for a good deal, I ordered the PC. A Dell XPS 410 with Intel Core2Duo E6600 (x64 CPU, this will come into play later), 3GB of RAM, 500GB of HD space, and all the usual other accoutrements. The Dell site stated that the estimated ship date for the item was late September. Great, a 2-week lead-time shouldn't be a problem.
Then came the order detail e-mail. In the e-mail I was told that my order was to be delayed by a month. The earliest ship date was now mid-October. So I e-mailed Dell wondering why their site shows one date, yet their instant Order Confirmed e-mail showed yet another.
The response I received was as follows:
Quote -
"Thank you for contacting Dell Online Customer Care.
I understand from your e-mail that you want to check the credit status of your order I would like to inform you that the order lies in the hold status as the authorization from the dell prefered account is still pending. I would request you to kindly wait for 24 hours so that status will change."
I understand from your e-mail that you want to check the credit status of your order I would like to inform you that the order lies in the hold status as the authorization from the dell prefered account is still pending. I would request you to kindly wait for 24 hours so that status will change."
My question at this point is who is reading my e-mail? I had asked why the site shows one status and the e-mail another. Never did I ask anything regarding my account. I wrote support another e-mail trying to be more clear. Once again I received a somewhat canned reply:
Quote -
"I would like to inform you that I have checked your records and found that your shipping date for this order is Wednesday, October 11, 2006"
Now I'm really wondering if any at Dell Support reads anything before they reply. I already knew the estimated shipping date. My issue was why their site was still giving false dates for shipping newly ordered systems. I wrote Dell a few more times and they ended up giving me a $100 Dell coupon & upgraded my shipping. The system ended up being delayed one last time, but finally shipped on October 13 and arrived on October 18.
Why all the fuss over a simple PC you ask? I test software for multiple companies and needed a testbed for both 32-bit and 64-bit software. To me this was a mission critical PC and Dell was failing to deliver, especially since the XPS line is supposed to be their top end systems.
Now before anyone gets upset and states that I should have ordered from the Dell Small Business site I'd like to point something out. The Dell Dimension 9200 & the Dell XPS 410 are the same machine with a different label on the top. The XPS systems are supposed to have the top-tier support out of all of the Dell systems.
Now flash forward almost 1-year. I haven't had a single issue with this system until August 2007. It seems the DVD-Burner has decided to stop working properly. It randomly drops out of Explorer, and sometimes doesn't show up during POST. I run through the usual diagnostics (checking my connections, changing power leads, etc.) and it still doesn't work.
At this point I decide to call XPS Support and they make me re-run through the diagnostics while I'm on the phone with them. The XPS Support tech thinks a firmware flash will fix the issue. So I do the flash and sure enough, the drive is alive again, for a month.
September is back and it's been almost a full year since I placed my order. I wake up one morning and want to burn a CD for a road trip, and the drive fails and disappears from Explorer, again. I run through my diagnostics again and it's behaving the same way. I call up XPS Support and once again they refuse to replace the drive but insist I re-flash the firmware again. I flash the firmware and sure enough it works again. I tell the tech this is what happened before, but he states it will stay fixed this time. I continue to argue and he tells me that they require 3 calls about the same issue before they can send a replacement. I request a supervisor and the tech hangs up on me.
I decided to be patient and see if he was right, if not it will fail soon enough and I can request a replacement. So another month goes by. I go on a trip to Microsoft in October for a few days. I come home the night of October 13 around 11:30pm and startup my PC. I notice the drive is missing from POST again. I call the Dell XPS Support line, and it turns out that Dell doesn't have 24/7 tech support as they claim. So I go to bed aggravated, and go to sleep intending to call them first thing in the morning.
The next morning I pick up the phone and call the XPS Support line. I wait only a few minutes and then I'm connected with a Support Agent. I detail my issue and he stops me half-way through and lets me know that he will not be able to assist me. I ask why, and he states because I am out of warranty. Sure enough my warranty expired as of 11:59pm on October 13. I was literally 9 hours out of warranty.
I asked the technician if I could purchase a warranty extension and he stated that I could have, but once you are out of warranty you can no longer purchase extensions. I then proceed to argue with the technician for over an hour. After all I had requested a replacement drive multiple times and had been turned down, and the drive had also failed while in warranty. After the end of an hour he finally agrees to setup an exchange. I receive the new drive, and it seems all is well with the world.
One Week Later...
So now I'm thinking everything will be ok. I decide to do some OS testing and validation, and so I do a fresh install of Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition. The install finishes and my system reboots with in-box drivers for almost all of my hardware. The first thing I do is go to the Dell Support site and download drivers, or do I? It seems that Dell has decided to stop supporting all 64-bit editions of Windows, thus nothing to download.
I make a post on their forums asking if anyone knows if it's temporary and I receive this response from a Dell employee:
Quote -
"It cost us in time and money to validate drivers. We built PCs with specific operating systems in mind. That is all we will support."
I mention to the Dell employee that he must be mistaken as that would violate their Vista Logo contract with Microsoft. At this point the Dell employee replied tersely with the following:
Quote -
"Be assured, our legal team is on top of this decision."
At this point I'm stumped and a bit angry. After all the OEM Logo requirements state, "OEMs using x64 implementations must have signed drivers available to end users if shipping a 32-bit version of Windows Vista on the system."
By removing their x64 driver support they have now violated their contract with Microsoft. Any x64-based systems they sell now with the logo are illegal. One can only help but wonder, why would Dell put themselves in this position?
I'll kindly step down from my Soapbox now, but I ask one question to all of you.
Where do we go from here?
View: Windows Logo Program v3.0 FAQ's
News source: In House
Looks like it will be a while yet before it is mainstream. I know quite a few people with x64 PC's who opted to go for an x86 OS instead to cut out the aforementioned problems.
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It's relevant because if Dell drops support for it, less people will upgrade to it and thus driver programmers will be less inclined to program for it, thus causing a problem.
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It seems Dell's lack of support for x64 is more than relevant to the overall lack of support in x64 across the whole industry.
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It seems Dell's lack of support for x64 is more than relevant to the overall lack of support in x64 across the whole industry.
HP has good x64 support. My machine has full x64 drivers and all of their software.....I only have the Core Duo in this laptop instead of the Core 2 Duo, so I can't actually use x64, but my point is that they have all of this on their website available for download.
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It's relevant because if Dell drops support for it, less people will upgrade to it and thus driver programmers will be less inclined to program for it, thus causing a problem.
Christ you make it sound like Dell is the only provider... when in fact they not only fail at consumer end, but also on the business end too. They are about to be seriously dropped from the company I work for, because of militaristic contracts, sub-par support (similar to the above in the article), and ridiculous misc. things I could go into - but I just don't have that much time in the day.
I know there are allot of problems with X64 lines, but the whole articale is about Dell, and not the lack of support for X64
It's relevant because if Dell drops support for it, less people will upgrade to it and thus driver programmers will be less inclined to program for it, thus causing a problem.
Christ you make it sound like Dell is the only provider... when in fact they not only fail at consumer end, but also on the business end too. They are about to be seriously dropped from the company I work for, because of militaristic contracts, sub-par support (similar to the above in the article), and ridiculous misc. things I could go into - but I just don't have that much time in the day.
That doesn't change the fact that they're by far the BIGGEST supplier of PC's out there.
That was the last time I invested in Dell because I was not going to put myself in the position of being screwed over again. Now, all I have to do is avoid being screwed by someone else.
Ubuntu x64 version :
- Full hardware support
- Full performance
- Full x64.
No, Hewlett Packard are now.
We have some Dell machines (both Desktops and Laptops - and not cheap ones either, but business grade machines) at work and they really are some lousy machines.
It's crazy they would cut off x64 support like that. What are they thinking?
alot of people who havent used x64 vista-alot of drivers are available off windows update.
Barney
there dell axim however rocks my socks lol and I've had no problems with there screens... but it's not actually dell who makes both of those
as far as the DVD drive goes, go spend the $30.00 bucks for a new one. and for that matter, you should have gotten the drivers before you reinstalled. Rule #1 when reformatting you're computer. AND, if you do testing for other companies, why haven't you been keeping up on updating your drivers in the first place? You've gone a full year without any driver updates?
This isn't front page news. It's not even an opinionated news piece. It's a rant. Nothing more. x64 supports was mentioned in the very last portion of this rant. Up until then it as nothing but techsupport woes.
I have a 1991 Ford Ranger that's been giving me fit's lately. Do you mind if I post my troubles on the front page?
Last edited by bibutteryboy on 24 Oct 2007 - 11:17
I had the same thought about the DVD drive when reading about it, its $30 freaking bucks for a better DVD drive then the one that came with the Dell.
As for 64bit, what drivers aren't working with the Dell? He didn't even say. And when you run the Vista DVD, it checks for compatibility and let you know before you install it.
Umm, try returning "Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition" before the 30 day return policy runs out. And don't wait 9 hours after it expired to do so. We don't want to see another front page rant about that.
I'm not interested in Blogs, I don't mind a decent editorial on a news site though.
I had the same thought about the DVD drive when reading about it, its $30 freaking bucks for a better DVD drive then the one that came with the Dell.
As for 64bit, what drivers aren't working with the Dell? He didn't even say. And when you run the Vista DVD, it checks for compatibility and let you know before you install it.
Umm, try returning "Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition" before the 30 day return policy runs out. And don't wait 9 hours after it expired to do so. We don't want to see another front page rant about that.
Almost all news can be summed up in a few sentences, that's why you can just skip through what you don't care to read
Also when you're someone who is living on a SEVERELY restricted budget trying to put your wife through college for her second degree you can't always afford $30. Most of the time I can't even afford cheap disposable razors.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
As for 64-bit drivers I posted a bit further down what doesn't work. Essentially if I ever lose my copy of my printer or sound drivers I'm screwed.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.
as far as the DVD drive goes, go spend the $30.00 bucks for a new one. and for that matter, you should have gotten the drivers before you reinstalled. Rule #1 when reformatting you're computer. AND, if you do testing for other companies, why haven't you been keeping up on updating your drivers in the first place? You've gone a full year without any driver updates?
This isn't front page news. It's not even an opinionated news piece. It's a rant. Nothing more. x64 supports was mentioned in the very last portion of this rant. Up until then it as nothing but techsupport woes.
I have a 1991 Ford Ranger that's been giving me fit's lately. Do you mind if I post my troubles on the front page?
Hence why I ended the title of my piece with ...and Other Rants.
I made it clear from the get go that I was going to go off on a rant Dennis Miller style.
Long-winded but in the end the point gets through.
Umm, try returning "Windows Vista Ultimate x64 Edition" before the 30 day return policy runs out. And don't wait 9 hours after it expired to do so. We don't want to see another front page rant about that.
Almost all news can be summed up in a few sentences, that's why you can just skip through what you don't care to read
Also when you're someone who is living on a SEVERELY restricted budget trying to put your wife through college for her second degree you can't always afford $30. Most of the time I can't even afford cheap disposable razors.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
As for 64-bit drivers I posted a bit further down what doesn't work. Essentially if I ever lose my copy of my printer or sound drivers I'm screwed.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.[/quote]
Why would you offer to purchase an extended warranty if $30.00 for a new drive was too much for you to afford?
Because I have a credit account through Dell. Adding another year of warranty would add only a couple of dollars per month to my account.
I do not have $30 dollars outright to spend on a new drive. I can however afford to pay an additional $2 each month for a warranty that is supposed to provide same day on-site repair services, especially since my next payment isn't due for a couple more weeks.
Either way it's a moot point as Dell refused to allow me to extend the warranty in any case.
It's hard to just skip the rant because you put the Vista 64bit part at the end of the article, 90% of the article at the beginning is the rant.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
No, it isn't covered when the warranty is expired. It is not their problem that you didn't buy the extension. If I buy a TV from Best Buy, and when I try to return it on the 31st day, one day after the return policy expired, I don't expect them to take it back either. Now they can be cool about it and cover it for you anyway even though the warranty expired, but they don't have to.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.
I can't even find drivers for Vista 32bit for my printer, never mind Vista 64bit. Dell can't be the only vendor that's not supporting Vista 64bit.
It's hard to just skip the rant because you put the Vista 64bit part at the end of the article, 90% of the article at the beginning is the rant.
Also why should I pay for a hardware compenent to be replaced (regardless of the price) if it was supposed to be covered under warranty? That's what the warranty is for.
No, it isn't covered when the warranty is expired. It is not their problem that you didn't buy the extension. If I buy a TV from Best Buy, and when I try to return it on the 31st day, one day after the return policy expired, I don't expect them to take it back either. Now they can be cool about it and cover it for you anyway even though the warranty expired, but they don't have to.
Also why would I try to return a copy of Ultimate that I received as a gift from Microsoft? Personally I feel that Dell should keep up with their legal obligations and provide the drivers that their contract states they MUST provide.
I can't even find drivers for Vista 32bit for my printer, never mind Vista 64bit. Dell can't be the only vendor that's not supporting Vista 64bit.
On a legality basis you are very far off in terms of warranty support.
If I purchase an item that fails repeatedly within the warranty period and they refuse me service because of a 3 strikes policy they have they are still legally required to replace the item upon the third failure.
That drive had already failed twice and they had been notified. Legally they had an obligation to replace that item since the original failure and notification of that failure happened within the warranty period.
Now if it had been a first failure I would agree with you and so would the law.
Also the post was re-formatted by the staff in a way that I approve of. They added the bolding down below at the one week later part. That makes it much easier to know that a new part of the story starts there.
But if I purchased a system supplied by Dell with Windows Vista 64 bit and they pulled the drivers from their site I would be very upset too. What a stupid thing for Dell to do. They could at least leave the old drivers there for download.
When you get a Dell PC they give you the Windows CD but also a CD with all drivers for the system as well. This will not be the updated drivers but at least it will work the same as when the unit was shipped. also most drivers can be downloaded from the makers site. An example might be intel network drivers can be downloaded from intel direct. I often update drivers directly from the maker as Dell often is many months behind.
Hope you get your system up and running or it looks like you will need to get Vista 32bit installed.
again, I may be just lucky, but my experience with Dell in the last 24 months was excellent. I built my PCs for a while before that, because a couple years ago I had similar problems with Dell that you experienced. For me they got better. Hope it will change for you as well, just in case you ever buy from them again.
tgd
And why isn't this marked with an 'Editorial' tag? I clicked this expecting to read news, not just a long-winded personal rant.
Last edited by phantasmorph on 24 Oct 2007 - 12:03
And I fail to see how this is relevant at all, considering they sell systems that ship with Vista x64, such as the Precision Workstation 690, which has 64-bit drivers available for download. So they've not dropped support for anything of the sort.
And I fail to see how this is relevant at all, considering they sell systems that ship with Vista x64, such as the Precision Workstation 690, which has 64-bit drivers available for download. So they've not dropped support for anything of the sort.
Phantasamorph, maybe I didn't make it clear enough in the original editorial.
Part of the Vista Logo Requirements is that you MUST (yes that is in the contract, MUST) supply x64 drivers for all systems sold that have x64 hardware, even if they ship with Vista 32-bit out of the box.
Dell already had those drivers up and posted. They chose to remove them within the last week after having updates coming for almost a year.
I wouldn't have cared so much if they didn't update the drivers, but now they have completely pulled the plug on systems they were still selling as of last week.
As for what drivers they pulled that are important to me?
As of last week there was a Vista 64-bit version of the driver for my A922 All-In-One Dell Printer. This week? Gone
How about my sound card drivers to enable more than just basic "stereo" sound? Gone
There's also my wifes PC. I now cannot upgrade her to Vista 64 because of Dell pulling the support from their website. She has a Dimension E520 that we bought for her to use as both a rendering machine and for her own personal use. I had intended to upgrade her to 8GB of RAM for her birthday this weekend. Now what do I do?
(Wow, sounds like tv spot... or scientology....)
This is a bit of an interesting predicament though and it really seems like big vendors like Dell are starting to rebel against Microsoft. Its easy enough to rail against them for not providing drivers but then from a support point of view the 64bit / 32bit mashup must be an absolute NIGHTMARE if you have ma and pa 'new user' being guided through driver downloads and updates over the phone.
You can see why folks like Apple are making such huge profits in recent years. With a sealed box, with a single version of the operating system, support is going to be FAR less complicated.
Will be interested to see where it goes from here.
Sure, as long as you don't mind throwing the computer out and buying a new one when you want to upgrade something.
When you have to support about 3 different setups, it's not much of a feat to get good 64-bit drivers going.
I can't comment on idiots having problems installing OS X. And 17,000 odd posts out of several million users (and multiple posts by a few users) is hardly representative. I'm sure there are far more people having Windows installation problems, or Vista problems, if this is the issue you're trying to point out. I've always inserted DVD, gotten a cup of coffee and 10 minutes later OS X Tiger is installed. I'm sure Leopard will be the same.
However, your post doesn't even mention the issue brought up in parent thread or my post. OS X Leopard supports 64-bit right out of the box. No device driver problems. No support issues. Nothing. No new software to install, no breakage of many popular apps. Nothing.
Feel or react however you wish. I use OS X and Windows. OS X does have some problems but OSes are complex enough anyways that they're bound to have problems wether its one company that makes it or open source. My daily use of OS X is far less frustrating than my 15 years of Windows use.
i agree with the point chicane uk made about apple. i'm so frustrated with trying to get even the most simple things working with vista (and i'm talking about 32 bit drivers) that i can see why more people are buying an apple computer.
i'd personally find it very difficult moving over to apple, not just because of learning a whole new way of doing things, but the cost of having to buy all new software, such as a decent office suite, but that said, if i was buying a new computer for the first time, i'd buy apple.
I'd recommend VMWare Fusion over Parallels, these days. Regardless, the point is that modern Apple systems are fast enough that you can virtualize with barely a performance hit. Unless you're a hard-core gamer or have certain specialized needs, virtualizing will let you slowly transition without losing any functionality. If my desktop system were faster, I'd probably have transitioned it fully to Linux doing a similar method.
Both she and I were quite upset to say the least! I used to love IBM's tech support for the two Thinkpads that I've had. I've always thought that they were top-notch, until they sold out to Lenovo. Maybe all consumer PC companies are that bad these days.... I don't know.
I'm lately turning into the do-it-yourself type. In fact I just ordered parts to build anther PC myself.
I do have 32bit Vista on my HTPC but I prefer 64bit. It just feels more robust, faster and more stable.
I do have 32bit Vista on my HTPC but I prefer 64bit. It just feels more robust, faster and more stable.
Yep same here been running Vista Ultimate x64 since the betas and nevr had a issue really.
Sure the MB AC97 sound driver was crap until about may....but it did still work. And after all MS isn't to blame for poor driver support....how long did these hardware vendors know vista was coming for ????
Vista x64 rox my socks
Yes I am working with my contacts at Microsoft to hopefully set Dell straight on this.
Dell can write their own contracts.
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Odd, I will have my Dell Rep verify again for me as well as my software vendor telling me the same thing.
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Odd, I will have my Dell Rep verify again for me as well as my software vendor telling me the same thing.
From what I'm hearing you won't get a response from your Dell Rep other than they no longer have to provide drivers.
That's only partially correct. They have dropped themselves from the Vista Logo program with new PC's it seems, but they are still obligated to provide the support for PC's that they already shipped as part of the Logo Program.
Dell can write their own contracts.
No they can't.
The OEM guidelines are quite clear. In order to use the Vista Logo you have to comply with the Program Requirements.
One of those is that you MUST supply an x64 driver for any x64 hardware you sell, even if you only ship it with a 32-bit OS.
It's all in the link I provided in my editorial.
Odd, I will have my Dell Rep verify again for me as well as my software vendor telling me the same thing.
From what I'm hearing you won't get a response from your Dell Rep other than they no longer have to provide drivers.
That's only partially correct. They have dropped themselves from the Vista Logo program with new PC's it seems, but they are still obligated to provide the support for PC's that they already shipped as part of the Logo Program.
It's too bad that the regular customers don't understand what it entails that the Dell computers don't have the vista certification logo.
I completely agree.
That's part of why I felt it was important to get this story out there.
Last week I spilt sprite on my keyboard on an airplane. I got online with dell online chat the next day and had a replacement arrive 1 1/2 days later at no cost to my self.
Dell will not support any operating system the machine does not ship with, FYI. Though I don't know if you customized your drivers based on your machine. If indeed Dell did stop supporting x64 I think that is a bad decision as well.
You experience with purchasing through dell vs building your own computer though sounds novice. You didn't think to extend your warranty. If you had built your own you would have had to pay for your DVD drive your self anyway. Instead dell replaced your drive for free.
On the other hand dell has always offered poor driver support. My XPS M1710 only has very old drivers listed on their website for x32 bit.
DELL must point direct links to original drivers if available and drop to wrap everything into DELL executables. Because DELL just wasting money and resources. For example there is no need to wrap nVidia or ATI desktop video drivers. They can provide direct links to "Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility" or "Toshiba Bluetooth Stack" (http://aps2.toshiba-tro.de/bluetooth/pages/download.php) which works on Dell notebooks too.
DELL must point direct links to original drivers if available and drop to wrap everything into DELL executables. Because DELL just wasting money and resources. For example there is no need to wrap nVidia or ATI desktop video drivers. They can provide direct links to "Intel Chipset Software Installation Utility" or "Toshiba Bluetooth Stack" (http://aps2.toshiba-tro.de/bluetooth/pages/download.php) which works on Dell notebooks too.
That's a bad idea. Dell, like HP and any responsible vendor, needs to test the drivers before actually deploying them and having to support any issues which could crop up. This is what leads to different systems potentially having different versions of the same drivers. What was released was fully tested on that system.
Unless Dell could also push the support of issues back to intel/ATI/nVidia ... what you're suggesting won't happen.
And it's not Dell's fault the drive broke and you called 9 hours after the warranty vanished.. Yeah it sucks but you should keep track of that stuff... Outlook works wonders.
And it's not Dell's fault the drive broke and you called 9 hours after the warranty vanished.. Yeah it sucks but you should keep track of that stuff... Outlook works wonders.
Did you not read the story?
It was the 3rd time that drive had failed. Dell had refused to replace it on 2 prior occasions.
I also was out of town at a conference on the Microsoft Campus for several days.
I didn't get back home until after the XPS Support Line had closed.
My only option was to call them first thing in the morning, which I did.
Also of course it isn't Dell's fault the drive broke, it's the manufacturers fault. However Dell supplies the warranty on that part. The reason why they ended up giving it to me was they couldn't argue the fact that I had indeed attempted to replace it twice already during the warranty period.
Also, just as an FYI, I do keep track of things very well.
I have a PocketPC Phone (Samsung SCH-i730) and a PocketPC (Dell Axim X5)
Everything is synchronized via Exchange on my server so that I know when things are going on.
I had the warranty dates in my calendar, but when you're gone for nearly a week and you come back and it's not working what can you do?
That's pretty sad as it looks like we'll have to wait for the next version of Windows (at least) b4 we start seeing x64 support that's not a complete joke and pain in the arse...
Oh believe me I'm fully aware of that lol.
That's what I wrote this editorial and am trying to deal with Microsoft on this.
So do I know own an "illegal" product??? And can I get money out of this??
So do I know own an "illegal" product??? And can I get money out of this??
For me it's not about money, it's about what's right.
They have violated the Logo Requirements. They need to make it right.
Right, but my Dell printer and my onboard sound aren't going to get up and grow their own drivers
That means most systems had the 64-bit drivers pulled.
From my previous knowledge you can use 64-bit drivers from other systems, considering that Dell tends to use similar components from time to time. The drivers may not be visible but they may exist, please search the file library at http://support.dell.com/
That means most systems had the 64-bit drivers pulled.
From my previous knowledge you can use 64-bit drivers from other systems, considering that Dell tends to use similar components from time to time. The drivers may not be visible but they may exist, please search the file library at http://support.dell.com/
If the systems were not validated then why do they contain the Vista Logo?
Part of the OEM Requirements for the Vista Logo states that you MUST supply an x64 driver to the end-user for any x64 hardware sold.
That means most systems had the 64-bit drivers pulled.
From my previous knowledge you can use 64-bit drivers from other systems, considering that Dell tends to use similar components from time to time. The drivers may not be visible but they may exist, please search the file library at http://support.dell.com/
If the systems were not validated then why do they contain the Vista Logo?
Part of the OEM Requirements for the Vista Logo states that you MUST supply an x64 driver to the end-user for any x64 hardware sold.
I am not sure why they pulled it when it was available before.
But one thing I do notice is that they no longer put the Vista logo on any of their systems.
That means most systems had the 64-bit drivers pulled.
From my previous knowledge you can use 64-bit drivers from other systems, considering that Dell tends to use similar components from time to time. The drivers may not be visible but they may exist, please search the file library at http://support.dell.com/
If the systems were not validated then why do they contain the Vista Logo?
Part of the OEM Requirements for the Vista Logo states that you MUST supply an x64 driver to the end-user for any x64 hardware sold.
I am not sure why they pulled it when it was available before.
But one thing I do notice is that they no longer put the Vista logo on any of their systems.
Going forward that may be all well and good, but for systems that shipped containing that logo they are legally required to provide the drivers.
It's a shame really
Good luck man.
What video card do you have? I may know of some drivers that would support your card
Good luck man.
What video card do you have? I may know of some drivers that would support your card
Nvidia gForce Go 7900 GS. Email me them if you do. Its megarain.x@gmail.com
drive isn't working, connect to online tech support... chat with the guy for about 5 minutes... he will tell you to do a bunch of different crap, after you are done, tell him the drive still isn't working... taaa-daaa, new drive on your doorstep next business day(assuming you purchased the appropriate warranty, which i would if i considered a PC to be "critical"
although there is a certain irony, as their driver site is down right now... lol, gg dell
drive isn't working, connect to online tech support... chat with the guy for about 5 minutes... he will tell you to do a bunch of different crap, after you are done, tell him the drive still isn't working... taaa-daaa, new drive on your doorstep next business day(assuming you purchased the appropriate warranty, which i would if i considered a PC to be "critical"
although there is a certain irony, as their driver site is down right now... lol, gg dell
XPS support is supposed to be their cream of the crop support tier.
It's supposed to even trump their business support as we pay a large premium to be XPS customers.
Here's another piece of irony for you.
I just went back to their driver download site and the OS option now is completely blank for every model of PC and printer that once had x64 support.
I think that means they may have realized that I made a very good point and by getting the word out to the community backed them into a corner.
It depends on the laptop. I will say that I have an Inspiron 6000 that has done me a lot of good over the last few years. I recently gave it to my wife for her schooling. I figured she could use a laptop that's just hers since she's working on that second degree.
I've been having a back and forth conversation with someone from Dell who claims that I am violating the ToS of my account with Dell by posting my negative views of the company and that I could be permanently banned from the Dell Community.
Here's what they said to say about the systems I own from Dell:
My reply:
Those processors contain EM64T technology. I should know. I've run Vista 64-bit on both of them.
So tell me how I could have ran Vista Ultimate x64 on a system that didn't have a 64-bit processor?
My system as well as my wife's both have the Vista logos on them, that means that Dell is contractually bound to provide support.
The Dell Reply To That:
So an official Dell employee doesn't even know WHAT hardware they ship in their systems (and no this is not one of the support agents) and on top of that claims t hat they don't have drivers.
Where did the drivers go? Did they magically disappear into some great big could in the sky?
I smell fear.
Support for more memory of course is one as you mentioned.
You can run applications designed with x64 support in mind, which means faster apps.
You also gain performance when compressing/uncompressing, encrypting/decrypting, encoding/decoding
The primary reason being there are more registers in 64-bit than in 32-bit.
Also the 64-bit version of Vista is more secure due to PatchGuard, Signed Driver Requirements, and various other low level code improvements.
Linux as the host with vmware and vista x64 and x32 run in VMWAre and driver hell is over
Supposedly they 64 bit version still can't see more than 3 GB its a hardware issue I think from Intel.
If dell keeps it up they will continue to lose customers.
I just received this reply from Dell regarding this issue:
This is what I got today -
Dell does provide both 32-bit and 64-bit Vista drivers for the XPS 410. Checking our website it appears that the option for XP and Vista 64 are missing, I can get those added back. Luckily most of the drivers posted for Vista 32-bit also cover Vista 64. Some of the drivers like the network driver and most of the applications are limited to 32. For those exceptions, the drivers are available on the Resource DVD and you can locate the drivers using the search feature (a difficult procedure at the moment, I’m afraid). Andy and I will work on getting the 64-bit OS selection added back.
Chalk up a win for the little guy who wasn't afraid to stand up to the multi-billion dollar corporation.
Want a great Pc at a good price and frgigen great customer support, try DigitalStormOnline.
These guys truely rock. Check the forums out before ya make the decision.
And as for Vista64. Runs great. All HW seen and working. At the begining I do believe the HW compaines droped the ball on haviong drivers out there. But now its pretty good. Its even ran all the Game demos I can throw at it.
Wouldn't go back.
As for your warranty issues, next time you need a system don't be a cheapo. I have a 5 year (yes, 5 YEAR!
To sum it up: Don't buy a consumer product and expect enterprise support for your "mission critical" application. If your job truely was mission critical, your mission would have a higher budget to get the best.
As for your warranty issues, next time you need a system don't be a cheapo. I have a 5 year (yes, 5 YEAR!
To sum it up: Don't buy a consumer product and expect enterprise support for your "mission critical" application. If your job truely was mission critical, your mission would have a higher budget to get the best.
Wow you can tell who did, and didn't read the article.
My system is an XPS 410. The XPS 410 receives Dell XPS Support (known as the gold tier for enterprises)
I even offered to pay for a warranty extension and they refused
XPS Support is handled in America, just like your enterprise. They are typically supposed to just fix the issue, but they tried to screw me for the last 2 months since I was close to being out of warranty.
Also I recommend you try putting your wife through college for a second degree since her first college screwed her out of a proper bachelors, which means also buying a new PC for her as well. Then we'll see just how far your paycheck goes.
Add onto that Dell has caved and have stated that they will re-instate the x64 support by the end of the business day.
So why would you state that they have no consumer support for x64? It's legally required and I made such a solid case that they were forced to re-instate it.
So tell me where at all I was wrong?
I do apoligize if I came off a bit harsh. I do understand your frustration and I do not agree with the way that Dell treats its small spending customers. Do note that the 670 set my company back over $11k and we all know that money talks.
Congrats on getting Dell back to supporting x64 on all lines! That's awesome, and a win/win for all of us.
Now if only Apple would support x64 on bootcamp so my Macbook Pro would see all 4GB RAM on the Windows side.
I do apoligize if I came off a bit harsh. I do understand your frustration and I do not agree with the way that Dell treats its small spending customers. Do note that the 670 set my company back over $11k and we all know that money talks.
Congrats on getting Dell back to supporting x64 on all lines! That's awesome, and a win/win for all of us.
Now if only Apple would support x64 on bootcamp so my Macbook Pro would see all 4GB RAM on the Windows side.
That would be a dream wouldn't it?
I told my wife that since I gave her my old laptop that our next purchase would be a top of the line MacBook Pro as soon as we can afford one.
That would be nice wouldn't it?
You're right on a few things.
I could get updated drivers for my chipset from Intel.
I could get updated network drivers from Intel
I can't however get my audio drivers since it's onboard audio, unless it's from Dell
I can't get drivers for my Dell A922 All-In-One Printer, unless it's from Dell.
It's not a fairly moot point though. Dell has caved and will be supplying the drivers once more.
Also not every Tom, Dick, & Harry knows where to go to find the drivers.
They just want to use the Dell site and download everything.
I know the point will be made that most of those will be running Vista x86, but the occasional newbie or hardcore tech guy like us runs Vista x64, and by law Dell had to support those end-users per their contract for the Vista Logo Requirements. I had an undeniable case and they had to follow-through.
They just don't expect their users to make them follow the law.
That would be nice wouldn't it?
You're right on a few things.
I could get updated drivers for my chipset from Intel.
I could get updated network drivers from Intel
I can't however get my audio drivers since it's onboard audio, unless it's from Dell
I can't get drivers for my Dell A922 All-In-One Printer, unless it's from Dell.
It's not a fairly moot point though. Dell has caved and will be supplying the drivers once more.
Also not every Tom, Dick, & Harry knows where to go to find the drivers.
They just want to use the Dell site and download everything.
I know the point will be made that most of those will be running Vista x86, but the occasional newbie or hardcore tech guy like us runs Vista x64, and by law Dell had to support those end-users per their contract for the Vista Logo Requirements. I had an undeniable case and they had to follow-through.
They just don't expect their users to make them follow the law.
Arnt all Dell's onboard audio drivers SimaTel HD? I got the drivers for it perfectly fine from their site now dell printers thats another story
The XPS 410 and Dimension E520 (both my desktop systems) use the SigmaTel HD audio, you are correct.
Currently they do have a package up that contains both the 32-bit and 64-bit versions of the driver.
What would happen after the next update though? If they thought they no longer had to support x64 then the next driver would most likely be a 32-bit only package.
This forces them to at least mantain driver packages for x64 systems.
Also for my printer I don't have the nicety of a package that contains both x64 & x86 drivers.
Both packages were very clearly separated so with it pulled I'd have no means of re-installing if I lost the system and my backups.
There's also my Media Card Reader. It requires x64 specific drivers. Right now the drivers contain both bits, but in the future if they dropped x64 support what would I do for drivers?
Edit-Also this is the 100th comment on my first newspost every for Neowin. Woohoo
The drivers were not fully pulled - they are just not visible, they are downloadable however
After all that, even if flashing or anything else worked, you should have flat out lied to them and said, "No, none of the troubleshooting steps worked. This drive needs to be replaced." Dell would have then said, "Okay, we'll send out a replacement."
I have gotten many things replaced/serviced this way from Dell and other companies. You have to know how to work the system. One way is through lying. Try it. It works!
After all that, even if flashing or anything else worked, you should have flat out lied to them and said, "No, none of the troubleshooting steps worked. This drive needs to be replaced." Dell would have then said, "Okay, we'll send out a replacement."
I have gotten many things replaced/serviced this way from Dell and other companies. You have to know how to work the system. One way is through lying. Try it. It works!
Congratulations, you do realize that theft and fraud are what lead to higher prices right?
I tend to be honest and think people who just lie are scum.
I merely submitted the news. It was up to the staff to decide if it was front-page worthy.
They decided it was so, so I won't argue
The third option?
I'm an XP user primarily, but I really have no desire to move to Vista, unless SP1 turns out to be nothing less than a miraculous turnaround. Microsoft still has thousands of bugs to fix in Vista, some of them rather serious, like the driver-deactivation problem. Who wants to go through repeated activations on the phone? This is getting ridiculous.
The third option?
I'm an XP user primarily, but I really have no desire to move to Vista, unless SP1 turns out to be nothing less than a miraculous turnaround. Microsoft still has thousands of bugs to fix in Vista, some of them rather serious, like the driver-deactivation problem. Who wants to go through repeated activations on the phone? This is getting ridiculous.
Everyone throws in Linux, but it's honestly not a viable option.
Show me Halo 2 or GoW on a Linux machine and you just might have me.
Everyone throws in Linux, but it's honestly not a viable option.
Show me Halo 2 or GoW on a Linux machine and you just might have me.[/quote]
I mean in the next couple of years. I think Linux development is going to accelerate significantly because so many countries are starting to support it. 64bit Linux means you could install 16GB of RAM, and run Windows (and other OSes) in a virtual machine like it was any other app. The future is all about virtualization, because we're all standardizing on the same hardware so drivers will no longer be problem.
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