Is the PS3 pushing Blu-ray or is Blu-ray pushing the PS3? Right now, I would say that Sony’s PlayStation 3 is pushing Blu-ray. Back in March, in response to a question on whether putting Blu-ray in the PS3 was a sound decision, Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios President Phil Harrison was quoted as saying: “No regrets whatsoever. And it's those kinds of decisions, painful though they were to live through in the last quarter of 2006, those are the decisions that are going to propel PlayStation 3 to be a platform that lasts for ten years, like we've seen with PS1 and PS2. And it will be, I believe, reflected on as the smartest decision we ever made."
I remember the mockery of this statement quite well. “Yeah right! All that Blu-ray has done for the PS3 is made it more expensive and therefore given it less sales!” That may be true, but let’s look at it from a different perspective. Blu-ray seems to be consistently beating HD DVD. Sure, the gap isn’t something to write home about, but nevertheless, despite various set-backs, Blu-ray somehow manages to come out on top in the sales numbers. In August, Paramount and Dreamworks chose HD DVD exclusivity for the next 18 months. From January 1 through September 30, Blu-ray discs amounted to 2.6 million units compared with 1.4 million HD-DVD discs in the U.S. This news was followed by HD DVD Transformers becoming the best-selling first day and first week HD movie ever. Despite no such titles from Blu-ray, that same week ending October 21 Blu-ray still beat HD DVD, albeit by a slim 51% to 49% ratio. Why did Blu-ray still manage to get the upper hand?
A possible answer is the PS3. It’s actually a bit ironic if you think about it. The PlayStation 3 is a gaming console, but it seems that all it has gotten right is the aspect that’s supposed to make it more attractive: Blu-ray. Sony may be beating Toshiba, but Microsoft is happily celebrating. Things might have been different if Microsoft didn’t decide that it would beat Sony with time, by entering the “next-generation” console market a year early, but that is something Sony will have to deal with and not use an excuse. Developers are choosing Microsoft because it already has the user base, which only makes it harder for Sony. It’s a vicious circle, really. The PS3 loses developers, which in turn means less game titles, which in turn means less console sales, which in turn means losing developers and so on.
So what does Sony do? A price drop of course. Too bad Microsoft has the backing to do the same. Ouch. Sony may not reach out to those deciding between the 360 and the PS3, but it should definitely reach out to all those that want a PS3 but aren’t stupid enough to shell out the money equivalent to 2 Wiis and then some. Right? Well, that was the idea. Unfortunately, Sony couldn’t simply cut the price tag: they had to cut the price tag by a little, and release the 40GB model. See, the PS2 user base is the greatest by far, and there are many, many users that want a PS3 primarily because of brand loyalty. They won’t be happy when they learn they can’t just sell their PS2 to save further on the 40GB because the latest SKU lacks PS2 game backwards compatibility. The real thing that is saving Sony's gaming division here is the income from PS2 consoles and games, which continue to sell like hotcakes. Maybe Sony needs to realize that cutting a price should not have to result in cutting features.
But if you’re going to cut something, at least cut Blu-ray out of the equation. I mean, if Toshiba and Microsoft are gearing up to merge HD DVD and 360 into one device, why can’t Sony offer a model with no Blu-ray? I’m sure there are some PS3 gamers out there right now who just want to play games. Oh wait, the games come on Blu-ray discs! Let’s see, is that such a terrible move on Sony’s part? Not if you don't look at the PS3 sales numbers. Whether it’s superior marketing or a larger availability, the fact is Blu-ray is the leader in the HD war. Looking over at blogs and tech forums, you’ll rarely see Blu-ray fans deciding to switch but HD DVD fans seem to be in a state of indecision and mild confusion. As well, threads about how Blu-ray is gaining shelf space at HD DVD’s expense seem to be popping up everywhere. So much for the better and cheaper format – because that’s exactly what HD DVD is in my opinion. However, my opinion, along with the rest of HD DVD supporters, becomes completely irrelevant if Blu-ray wins.
Of course, things aren’t exactly looking grim for HD DVD. Sure, Sony has the 40GB slated for release before the holidays and it still has thousands of companies backing Blu-ray as well as its own movie studio, which will undoubtedly never change. HD DVD has the price advantage and the rumours of Warner Bros. ditching Blu-ray. If Toshiba really wants to win, they should start losing money per device like Sony is doing with the PS3. Who cares if you cut your revenue in half if you sell HD DVD players for $100 and win the HD war? The money would come trickling back, would it not? Yes, I’m aware of the $198 HD DVD player Wal-mart is selling, but I’m not certain it will settle the issue. Surely, the holidays will give us some answers, and if not then, the following year will hopefully choose a single successor to DVD. I’m assuming here, that a winner is possible in this HD war, and that price is the consumer’s number one concern.
This brings me to the $180 HD DVD add-on from Microsoft. It is an excellent idea since many gamers don’t want and don’t bother watching movies in HD, especially if it’s going to affect the price tag of their console. On the other hand, many PS3 owners are thinking that since they already have Blu-ray, why not shell out the extra few dollars for the HD version of the movie? They got a taste of HD, and they want more. Too bad Microsoft has not (to my knowledge, please comment below if you know otherwise) released HD DVD add-on sales numbers. Based on HD movie sales, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there are more PS3s in homes than there are HD DVD add-ons.
One of the main reasons the PS2 sold so well is because of the demand to have a DVD player at home. The PS3 may be pushing Blu-ray now, but Blu-ray could easily end up pushing the PS3. If HD DVD never came out and decided to take on Blu-ray, if more people owned HDTVs and if Sony understood how to apply a proper price cut, the PS3 would indeed be the PS2's successor. It may not look like it now, but what if the PS3 did eventually catch up to the 360? If Toshiba, for whatever reason, gave up on HD DVD, then PS3 sales would skyrocket. Yes, the two are that closely tied. Microsoft may have a huge backing for the 360 now, but Sony built the PS3 for the next ten years, or at least they would want you to think so. If Sony cleans up its act, I would not be surprised if they did end up beating Toshiba and Microsoft, but only in the long term and with huge short term expenses.
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As a side note, I would like to address all those respondents that will surely pop in just to say something along the lines of “Wii FTW!” and continue merrily on their way, enjoying the extra money they saved by not choosing a 360 or a PS3. When was the last time you played your Wii? Reportedly, around two thirds of Wii owners haven’t touched their console recently. It’s really too bad that there aren’t numbers to compare with the PS3. Obviously Halo 3 and Gears of War are keeping 360 owners occupied, but one must remember that the PS3 and the Wii don’t have something equivalent out yet. No, I don’t believe Wii Sports and Resistance: Fall of Man are on the same level. The Wii has basically matched or beaten the 360 in sales numbers, depending on which research company you trust, without releasing a highly-anticipated title. The PS3 was last to join the race and the numbers show it. These trends will soon become outdated. Final Fantasy XIII, Super Mario Galaxy, Gran Turismo, Super Smash Bros. Brawl – Microsoft beware!
Long Live the Playstation 3...
Well written article might i add. ;D keep up the good work.
Sure, Microsoft would get the sales from the H/W. But, there would be a beautiful irony in that PS3 owners could then view HD movies on either format - thanks to MS H/W!!
Choice of HD format is a no-brainer for me. I live in the UK, I rent my movies from Blockbuster - which only has Blu-Ray. I buy my games (when not buying online) from Asda (US people will know it's parent company, Wal-Mart) which has pretty much phased out it's HD-DVD sales.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox3...yer/default.htm
I think the same applies here between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Both can exist and be successful. One is the cheaper general product (HD-DVD) and the other is more expensive high end product (Blu-Ray). And we all know of the dual format players that LG is making, and I'm sure other companies will do the same. They will eventually become cheaper and affordable.
So it doesn't matter what consoles has what HD player, it won't matter.
So it doesn't matter what consoles has what HD player, it won't matter.
Completely true!
Remember your XBOX HD-DVD addon though does work with your PC as well which adds to the value. I hate BD+ it scares me a company like sony could have the power to run any code they want on your pc for any purpose.
No, the reason both will co exist (as above) is because the PS3 has guaranteed a user base and both formats have a strong backing respectively. Neither format will die within the next 12 months as a result. In the long run dual format players (+DVD) will be what floods the market so with neither company disappearing in the short term, in the long term the debate will become redundant as everyone bar early adopters will have hardware that can play both formats. Theres already dual format players and I predict in 12 months or so they may start hitting a price that makes the appealing to average consumers and that that point in time will be far sooner than any company bows out of the format war.
What do you mean by "high end" ? HD-DVD is more than capable of matching the video and audio quality of Blu-Ray, in fact the differences between the two on the same television are not noticeable.
Also lets not forget that while Blu-Ray may be leading in sales of movies now, HD-DVD is leading in the sales of standalone players (ie. not games console drives) at the moment and the gap seems to be widening. Sales of the PS3 have also reached a bit of a plateau now, sure they continue to sell but no-where near the amounts when it was first released (Xbox 360 continues to outsell it month on month despite being a year older). Add to that the fact that Paramount / Dreamworks recently announced an almost exclusive arrangement with HD-DVD (oh and don't forget the porn industry are backing HD-DVD too) and I can't see Blu-Ray continuing to lead on movie sales for much longer.
Yeah I don't want random code running on my machine either, but it's not like the blu-ray disc comes with some EXE file that you double-click on and run. In fact, the BD+ "code" is just an algorithm that is used on the stream in order to decode scrambled content into a picture, think of it like some lossless codec (that's not accurate but it gets the point across). On a BD+ disc, when the machine plays the video, it has to take an extra step to decode it according to a specific way the producer of that movie encoded it. The idea is that you could have a different way of scrambling the content for every movie if you wanted to. Instead of just being able to rip a disc and have perfect video, you'd have to rip the disc and then descramble it according to the algorithm specific to that group of BD+ discs. It's not like you watch a BD+ and some process stays in the background to monitor the program.
No they can deliver machine code. It has been documented as being possible on the slysoft forums and they know their stuff as they are trying to crack BD+
More FUD.
HD DVD doesn't have the bandwidth. Throw on "Flags of Our Fathers" and see the difference when 2 different encodes take advantage of full bandwidth BD (hint: the BD version is both sharper & clearer).
HD-DVD is leading in the sales of standalone players (ie. not games console drives) at the moment and the gap seems to be widening.
Ha. Good one. BD has once again closed the gap. Nor did "Transformers", HD DVD's biggest exclusive title for the year, allow it to win the sales for last week. <snipped - rule 5>
Add to that the fact that Paramount / Dreamworks recently announced an almost exclusive arrangement with HD-DVD (oh and don't forget the porn industry are backing HD-DVD too) and I can't see Blu-Ray continuing to lead on movie sales for much longer.
Porn: doesn't matter. Paramount/Dreamworks: paid off $150 million by the HD DVD group and biggest title fails to outsell Blu-ray. Meanwhile BD heavy hitters Spider-Man 3, Pirates 3, Ratatouille, Cars, Die Hard, Simpsons Movie haven't even been released yet!
XBOX 360 has stronger game titles than the PS3, THAT is why it outsells it. The HD DVD add on hasn't even sold a 10th as well as its parent console.
I hate BD+ it scares me a company like sony could have the power to run any code they want on your pc for any purpose.
BS. BD+ is not designed for that. You neglect to mention it's 20th Century Fox, not Sony, that is currently using it.
It has been documented as being possible on the slysoft forums and they know their stuff as they are trying to crack BD+
Of course they are, as it renders their bread and butter application obsolete.
I think the same applies here between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Both can exist and be successful
All it does is scare consumers into not buying either format. This isn't the games industry. Ma & Pa want one format.
Last edited by PureLegend on 28 Oct 2007 - 17:28
Ha. Good one. BD has once again closed the gap. <snipped - rule 5>
Un-necessary personal insults aside, you are quite wrong. Blu-Ray players were ahead at one point, but HD-DVD players are now taking the lead again. According to September sales stats, HD-DVD had 53%, Blu-Ray had 44% and Dual Format players had 3%. Now since Blu-Ray were ahead but are no longer, then by definition the gap is widenening at the moment. How long that lasts in anybody's guess, but the new models being launched by HD-DVD next month should help things.
Source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6488493.html
<snipped>
Last edited by PureLegend on 28 Oct 2007 - 17:28
Haha good one. Seriously though, if that were the case then every BD player would have to have a compatible CPU. In fact, the BD+ code is interpreted by the media player or BD+ player, it is not run on the bare metal and won't run off into the OS unless it exploits some buffer overrun in the specific software that you are currently using. If it were capable of just running any code on any machine that played BD+, then each machine & OS that can use BD+ would have to support the same binaries and API calls, but quite obviously they don't. How are you going to have a BD+ that works on some blu-ray player, on a windows PC with blu-ray playing software, and on a Mac that has blu-ray playing software, but yet the BD+ has a magic binary on it that infects every machine? Sorry but that just doesn't sound realistic.
and they wouldn't upgrade till one the the new formats drop below $100 US dollars. Even then most
users will stick with there standard DVD player.
On the other hand LG dual format player is a good idea, but has the same issue. People will buy it
if the price is right. I'm going to wait and see who wins.
Most likely a third player in the DVD format war will come out of know wear an crush both formats and
offer something better for under $50 dollars... only time will tell ..
"Around two thirds of Wii owners haven’t touched their console recently."
ORLY? It looks more like speculation + some unsourced facts thrown in. It's a bit hard for me to make something useful out of this.
I think anyone would be a fool to make the decision in the next 3-5 years. Sorry, but I would like to go back to the BETAMAX/VHS war. Again, Sony's attempt to shove a product nobody wants down our throats. Some good things came out of it like the world's first camcorder. However, it ended up eventually becoming Sony vs. The World to which Sony lost.
Will it happen again? Probably not. There are dual format players that will play both HDDVD and Bluray. Bluray also benefits from the fact that it's the format of PS3 consoles. Sony also owns MGM and Columbia Pictures now which gives them more control than it did back in the mid 70's. On the flip side, Universal and Paramount, owned by NBC/GE and CBS respectively, have gone with HD-DVD which evens out the playing field.
All in all, Bluray will fail. Either a better format will arise out of this or Bluray will die off. It would be different if Bluray offered better quality but in reality it's no better or worse than HD-DVD. History has shown that these kinds of formats don't last long.
But it will be a long time before the general public even switches to a format superior to regular DVD. VHS just started to phase out around mid-2006. Yet, still the most popular choice for recording still to this day. DVD has been around for over 10 years and still widely used. Don't expect them to be phased out for a long time either.
It's the same as the computer processor war - both AMD and Intel have been heavily plugging away to put as many cores, cache, and FSB they can on their chips for over a year now and it doesn't show signs of ending soon. Don't buy until at least SOME of the dust as settled and a winner is revealed. Same goes with this format war.
Well, you may want to study your history a bit more.
Sony, Panasonic, JVC, Hitachi, Pioneer, Dell, Apple, Samsung, LG, Sharp, Mitsubishi all support Blu-ray.
So how is it "Sony forcing", or "Sony VS everyone else" again?
Will it happen again? Probably not. There are dual format players that will play both HDDVD and Bluray. Bluray also benefits from the fact that it's the format of PS3 consoles. Sony also owns MGM and Columbia Pictures now which gives them more control than it did back in the mid 70's. On the flip side, Universal and Paramount, owned by NBC/GE and CBS respectively, have gone with HD-DVD which evens out the playing field.
You forget the 800-lb gorilla, the Walt Disney Company, supports Blu-ray exclusively.
You also forget 20th Century Fox. They control the MGM catalog now, not Sony.
but in reality it's no better or worse than HD-DVD
Only because companies like Warner Bros. don't want to do 2 different encodes to take advantage of the much higher bandwidth Blu-ray offers (54 vs 36Mbps). They feel the market is too limited to front the cost. The format war makes this happen by limiting the market.
All HD DVD really is: Microsoft's attempt to destroy pre-recorded media and get everyone to depend on limited time downloads that they control.
Having said that I do want to clear up this misconception of Blu Ray being the high end while HDDVD is the lower end consumer based model. Both formats offer the same resolution and the same audio as well depending on your player. Basically the only difference at this point is the content and Blu Ray has a huge advantage because of Disney, or at least to me=D
If you want to keep adding layers, Blu-Ray has an advantage no matter what because for video, the throughput on Blu-Ray is higher. If you have a higher kbps rate on your video it's going to look better. Blu-ray is 48Mb/sec and HD-DVD is 36.5Mb/sec... so no matter how much space is on the disc, the video, frame-to-frame, will look better on Blu-ray. I don't want to be stuck with a format that looks blocky and has the crappy video artifacts of DVD.
As for the idea that HDDVD is cheaper, I don't know where that comes from because when I go into stores, the movies cost the same for both players. I don't care how much the players cost for each because when they start having a price race we'll end up with $99 players on both sides anyway. Blu-ray has a harder coating than HD-DVD, however, and doesn't scratch or scuff nearly as easily. If you rub a Blu-ray disc with a cloth and compare that to the feeling of doing the same with a DVD, it's a lot easier to get the smudges off on Blu-ray and it feels sturdier, you can rub it with more abraisive materials without leaving tiny marks around (like facial tissues, this leaves marks on DVDs sometimes, but seems fine on blu-ray).
It seems like materials glide easily over the plastic instead of scraping across it... even tried it with a kitchen knife, just dragging the edge across, not pressing or anything. I used demo discs to test so I really didn't care. On a dvd there are permanent marks... nothing that will impede playback. We can copy our DVDs easily and make backups, but with HDDVD and Bluray it's not so simple and are stuck with the originals for now, and I'd rather put my investment in Bluray right now for that reason. Even through normal use, my DVDs have ended up with scratches and scuffs on them, and I take very good care of them. Sometimes it's just the player you use, or if you lend it to someone, or whatever the case, and after a while it starts looking like someone took steel wool to it. With Blu-ray I don't see these incidental marks even happening and I won't have to worry about who I lend it to or using it only in my trusted player or whatever.
As for the "Wii ftw" remark, I have to ask if the editorial poster even owns a Wii. I have to say that I own a Wii, PS3, and XBox 360 and own most games for the Wii. As for the last time I played it, that was yesterday, Metroid Prime 3 & Excite Truck. Other than that I still play RE4 Wii, as they have added a lot of replay value, I still play Super Paper Mario, I still play Wii Sports and Tiger Woods (never would've even thought of buying a golf game on any other system), and I'm going to pick up Zak & Wiki and Mario Galaxy when it comes out. I also can't put down Excite Truck, no other arcade racer on any other system has anything on this one. It's too bad the Wii would never see a Wipeout game, because I'm sure it would rock on the system. I'd have to say out of all of the people in the house, the Wii gets used by people who wouldn't really want to play PS3 or XBox 360, so it gets used even if I'm not around wheras the other consoles seem to sit there unless I want to play a movie or... I dunno what with the 360. I know there are a couple of games I wouldn't want to pass up like Bioshock or Virtua Fighter 5 on the other systems, but if I was stuck with only the Wii, I really wouldn't mind, it has enough to keep me happy as a gamer. Even if I would really miss those other titles, there are gaming experiences that as a gamer I just wouldn't want to miss on the Wii. Maybe that'll change as time goes on but with SSB:B Mario Galaxy and Mario Kart I really don't know.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Jos...s._Reality/1096
Back when they were supporting both High-Def formats, Paramount actually did what these users are demanding. They authored every movie separately for HD DVD and Blu-ray, each maximized to its format's potential. And what were the results? The same movie looked visibly identical on the bit rate maximized Blu-ray as it did on the lower bit rate HD DVD. Once again, the quality of the compression trumped other considerations regarding tech specs or bit rate...
I should mention at this point that at least one working Hollywood sound mixer has voiced his opinion that, when played back on his professional dubbing stage, well-mastered Dolby Digital Plus soundtracks encoded at the high 1509 kb/s bit rate that Paramount uses can be audibly transparent to the studio masters, when tested on movies that he mixed himself and would presumably know better than anyone else....
Last edited by TSThomas on 27 Oct 2007 - 17:32
That's fine according to highdefdigest, and it might be fine for whatever movies Paramount is putting on, but I doubt the issue of blockiness can be eliminated completely unless you don't compress the video at all. I would rather minimize the issue as much as possible by providing as much bandwidth as possible to the video. I've got both HDDVD add-on and Blu-ray because I don't want to miss out on any movies for whatever marketing bull that companies want to pull on their customers and I want to enjoy HD movies right now. I can tell you that there are movies with blocky artifacts and noise patters on both players. Just check out Happy Feet which is encoded at the same bitrate on both formats, there are clearly blocky artifacts in the scene where the penguin is walking through the arctic wind as the wind is blowing snow really quickly across the screen. If that movie had been encoded at a higher bitrate, those artifacts would be lessened or eliminated. I really don't care what some magazine says, but I would like the best experience possible. This is supposed to be high def, we're not supposed to see junk on the screen. Neither of these formats are lossless, and until such a format comes out, I'm more inclined to buy movies encoded at a higher bitrate!
Nor does he have access to the original masters to see how much is being lost, either audio OR video. The HD disc Happy Feet looks TERRIBLE when you see the uncompressed originals. Nor does he know how "Transformers" would sound uncompressed. He doesn't have the original soundtrack to make a direct comparison, seeing as nearly all uncompressed TrueHD/PCM tracks have beaten their compressed DD/DTS counterparts routinely on every other title.
And wtf does "advantage and the rumours of Universal ditching Blu-ray" mean? Uh, the rumors are of Universal sniffing around Blu-Ray and possibly ditching HD-DVD. As of now, they've already technically "dtiched" Blu-ray.
And wtf does "advantage and the rumours of Universal ditching Blu-ray" mean? Uh, the rumors are of Universal sniffing around Blu-Ray and possibly ditching HD-DVD. As of now, they've already technically "dtiched" Blu-ray.
That was supposed to be Warner Bros. - thanks for the heads up!
They hold a chair on the BDA, unlike Paramount/Dreamworks.
One of their formats, BD9, is part of the spec.
Their top brass has said they are still format neutral and their loudest HD DVD voice went to Paramount shortly after they went HD DVD exclusive.
Big titles such as the "300" BD outsold their HD DVD counterparts by more than 2:1 (despite the hyped extra interactive features). Now Warner is going through the expense of re-encoding "T3: Rise of the Machines" for BD release at the beginning of December. Their sister company, New Line Cinema, is releasing several discs that will appear only on Blu-ray first since HD DVD does not have region coding (VERY important to studios). The HD DVD versions will appear only after they are through playing overseas, at least 3-6 months after the BD version hits US store shelves.
Finally, the Paramount deal has Steven Spielberg being able to release his films in both formats. If Paramount wants to release "Indiana Jones" next year on HD DVD, there MUST be a Blu-ray version.
How can you be a fanboy without owning thier product and say that you "would like to beleive".....? Doesn't a fanboy without hesitation beleive in thier product no matter what?
How can you be a fanboy without owning thier product and say that you "would like to beleive".....? Doesn't a fanboy without hesitation beleive in thier product no matter what?
That would describe a "rabid" fanboy.
Traditional fanboys do allow themselves some room for facts.
Few people, if anyone, would be buying a PS3 because they want a Blu-ray player. The general public are probably even confused over the fact that now there are two formats to choose from - an issue that DVD did not have. Sony has a stake in the Blu-ray format, so it's obvious that they'd try to brute-force its market penetration in this manner. Whether it'll turn out to be a win or a loss for them, we'll see. As of now, it's not a negative or positive thing. But when people buy a console, regardless of what they want out of a game, they have to consider the price. If Blu-ray would make the PS3 that much more expensive than other consoles, then it's a handicap against Sony.
As much as I hate anecdotal evidence as opposed to verifiable facts, but both my 40 y/o brother and 67 y/o father bought PS3's just for the Blu-Ray player. Any gaming done on them (mostly by my nieces) is pure bonus.
I believe the Nielsen numbers show about 1/3 of PS3 owners use it as a Blu-Ray player, which means about 1.7 million or so at the moment (worldwide). It's around 500,000 or so in North America alone. For these people, you have to admit that being a Blu-Ray player factored in. That also doesn't take into account the number of people who bought a PS3, but don't have HDTV's, meaning that having Blu-Ray capability would be pointless at the moment, but is something they have considered for the future.
The only way either format is going to succeed is to dethrone DVD and until that happens, both blue-ray and HD-DVD will remain specialty items that cost too much and in a lot of peoples eyes, not really worth it. I personally would love to have one or the other but I'm one of those people that are waiting for a winner and I honestly don't know if there is going to be one. I have a 360 and more than likely I'll buy an HD DVD for it or if Blue Ray wins, I'll wait for MS to release a Blue Ray version. In any case, I'm a gamer. My wife, my parents, and most colleagues at work that don't play games and don't have the slightest interest in the HD battle taking place, it's a silent war. Both camps are not putting even a dent in the market they should be focusing on and that is non-gamers. Gamers or tech related people are the easy sell, we'll buy anything thats new tech but my dad, he has a DVD player but he is still using his VHS.
Sony better realize it can't rely on PS3 to sell Blue-Ray and frankly Microsoft is probably quite pleased that they don't have to deal with this issue, just wait for the winner!
They want the market so marginalized that people will go for downloading them instead.
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