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Feature-rich Leopard will wow Mac users

Slimy   on 02 November 2007 - 03:53 · 66 comments & 30887 views

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People new to the Mac and existing users alike will be wowed by many of the reportedly 300 new features built into Apple’s latest update to its OS X operating system, Leopard. These include a no-brainer backup system, a screen utility that turns a single Mac screen into virtually several screens at once, and improvements to the iChat video chat program that makes it easy to share pictures or a PowerPoint presentation with a friend or coworker in another office or in another country as if you were sitting right next to each other. But like any OS that gets an update, Leopard is not without a few glitches, albeit mostly minor ones.

The changes existing users will notice first include the semi-transparent menu at the top of the screen and the glass-like Dock — the floating band of icons used to launch applications. The menu is both nice and not-so-nice, depending on how you look at it; a dark desktop picture makes the menu hard to see, while a bright desktop picture lightens it up. An option to adjust or turn off transparency altogether would be nice.

View: Full Article @ MSNBC

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(2 replies) #1 Galley on 02 Nov 2007 - 04:10
Wowed? Heck, I'm sporting a tremendous woody!
#1.1 phantasmorph on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:55
You need this, seriously.
#1.2 Sakesaru on 03 Nov 2007 - 02:08
Quote - (phantasmorph said @ #1.1)
You need this, seriously.


LOL! So true.
#2 +Berserk87 on 02 Nov 2007 - 04:22
looking at the feature page there are a lot of small improvements....

small improvements != features....
(11 replies) #3 BigBoy on 02 Nov 2007 - 04:29
Is it just me or Apple seems to be packaging service packs into pretty boxes, calling them new OS versions and charging money for them to people that happily pay for them?

Good job if you can get it I guess... as long as everyone is happy, I guess that's all that matters...
#3.1 QuarterSwede on 02 Nov 2007 - 07:39
Sigh. Significantly changing the kernel, adding a backup service and virtual desktops people will actually use, rewriting the file management & networking, adding core media browsing (very quick), previewing so quick most of the time you don't need to open an application to look at it, adding a powerful core service (Core Animation) for animation in apps, the list goes on.

It's not a "service pack." If you had looked into what has been changed you'd know that.
#3.2 anthonyspt on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:15
Quote - (QuarterSwede said @ #3.1)
Sigh. Significantly changing the kernel, adding a backup service and virtual desktops people will actually use, rewriting the file management & networking, adding core media browsing (very quick), previewing so quick most of the time you don't need to open an application to look at it, adding a powerful core service (Core Animation) for animation in apps, the list goes on.

It's not a "service pack." If you had looked into what has been changed you'd know that.


Not even sure where to start with this... Windows XP SP2 included a new kernel, new security features, new multimedia features, new networking features, new browsing features, changes in the file management, and a recompiled OS to trap for basic exploits based on the Win2003 security revamp model.

This was a 'service pack'.

I also like how people keep naming 'features' of Leopard like thy are 'revoltionary. For example 'Quick Previewing'. Do people really not remember Windows95 that had a something called 'Quick Viewer' that could open file types without launching the applications, back in a time, when opening a Word Or CorelDraw Or AI document took a minute or two, and instead you could use the 'Quick Viewer' to view the files 'just like Leopard finally added', without openting the application. (BTW this features has changed in Current versions of Windows, becuase even the 'biggest piggy' application should launch in a few seconds on Windows, making the need for a 'Quick Viewer' redudant. Although in Explorer you can select the Preview Layout and the right hand side of the Folder will display a preview of virtually any file, even FASTER than Leopards 'Quick Preview'.

Sure you could debate whether Leopard is an upgrade or SP in terms of features or quality, but when Apple is adding in old features that MS was using 12 years ago, and then listing 300 features consisting of stupid little features about tabs and adding 'html' email (again something you could do in Win95 and Win98 12 years ago), it really 'cheapens' the quality of the 300 features.

If MS was to post a list of features changed in Vista at the pety level Apple has done, it would be a couple 1000 'features', which is more along the lines of a real OS upgrade, especially consider in the 'core animation/multimedia area of Leopard, not much changed, other than renaming Quartz 2D Extreme to Quartz OpenGL and Leopard still doesn't use it or turn it on for applications. Ouch...
#3.3 Jugalator on 02 Nov 2007 - 11:36
Quote -
Not even sure where to start with this... Windows XP SP2 included a new kernel, new security features, new multimedia features, new networking features, new browsing features, changes in the file management, and a recompiled OS to trap for basic exploits based on the Win2003 security revamp model.

This was a 'service pack'.

XP SP2 was an exception and it's no surprise you pick that as an example. It had to have a lot of this due to its exceptionally poor security configuration in the shipping version, or even SP1. Speaking of which, let's talk about SP1 for a while.
#3.4 ikyouCrow on 02 Nov 2007 - 12:26
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #3.2)
Quote - (QuarterSwede said @ #3.1)
Sigh. Significantly changing the kernel, adding a backup service and virtual desktops people will actually use, rewriting the file management & networking, adding core media browsing (very quick), previewing so quick most of the time you don't need to open an application to look at it, adding a powerful core service (Core Animation) for animation in apps, the list goes on.

It's not a "service pack." If you had looked into what has been changed you'd know that.

I also like how people keep naming 'features' of Leopard like thy are 'revoltionary. For example 'Quick Previewing'. Do people really not remember Windows95 that had a something called 'Quick Viewer' that could open file types without launching the applications, back in a time, when opening a Word Or CorelDraw Or AI document took a minute or two, and instead you could use the 'Quick Viewer' to view the files 'just like Leopard finally added', without openting the application. (BTW this features has changed in Current versions of Windows, becuase even the 'biggest piggy' application should launch in a few seconds on Windows, making the need for a 'Quick Viewer' redudant. Although in Explorer you can select the Preview Layout and the right hand side of the Folder will display a preview of virtually any file, even FASTER than Leopards 'Quick Preview'.

Sure you could debate whether Leopard is an upgrade or SP in terms of features or quality, but when Apple is adding in old features that MS was using 12 years ago, and then listing 300 features consisting of stupid little features about tabs and adding 'html' email (again something you could do in Win95 and Win98 12 years ago), it really 'cheapens' the quality of the 300 features.

If MS was to post a list of features changed in Vista at the pety level Apple has done, it would be a couple 1000 'features', which is more along the lines of a real OS upgrade, especially consider in the 'core animation/multimedia area of Leopard, not much changed, other than renaming Quartz 2D Extreme to Quartz OpenGL and Leopard still doesn't use it or turn it on for applications. Ouch...


i remember Quick Viewer. i loved that thing so much. it was actually one of the reasons i upgraded from WFW to Win95 (still use Program Manager and File Manager on my XP workstation at work; you can beat the performance).

MS posted a page listing 100 Reasons to Upgrade to Vista:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/...100reasons.mspx
#3.5 MioTheGreat on 02 Nov 2007 - 14:41
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #3.2)
If MS was to post a list of features changed in Vista at the pety level Apple has done, it would be a couple 1000 'features', which is more along the lines of a real OS upgrade, especially consider in the 'core animation/multimedia area of Leopard, not much changed, other than renaming Quartz 2D Extreme to Quartz OpenGL and Leopard still doesn't use it or turn it on for applications. Ouch...


Only a couple thousand? Any such change list for Vista would probably well over 10,000 items.

I mean, the changes to the driver models and kernel alone would be a gigantic list.
#3.6 whistlerxp on 02 Nov 2007 - 14:53
Quote - (BigBoy said @ #3)
Is it just me or Apple seems to be packaging service packs into pretty boxes, calling them new OS versions and charging money for them to people that happily pay for them?

Good job if you can get it I guess... as long as everyone is happy, I guess that's all that matters...


It's not just you unfortunately, but the good news is, you're wrong.
Ten Myths of Leopard: 2 - It's Only a Service Pack!

#3.7 +Chicane-UK on 02 Nov 2007 - 17:39
You know what? I personally think Leopard is far beyond a Service Pack. But if we want to get into the drolling fanboy nonsense then i'm happy to oblige.

If the Windows fanboys thing Leopard is a service pack, then good for them. You know what? I'd gladly pay for Apple's versions of Service Packs because unlike Microsofts they actually fix and IMPROVE the freaking OS unlike the Microsoft approach which is to bolt on more and more tat and bloat, break stuff that used to work ok in the process and sell it as an entirely new product.

The best thing Microsoft could come up with to sell Vista, as the 'wow the customers' type feature was the freaking 3D Alt-Tab replacement. That was the basis for an entire advert that ran on TV - in fact the only Vista commercial i've ever seen! Sign me up! 3D alt-tab! What a killer feature! --> http://youtube.com/watch?v=f7ZVKG8rRfA

Keep using Windows. Good for you. We'll keep paying for our "service packs" and enjoying the superb innovation Apple has and continues to show.

[/fanboymode]
#3.8 NateB1 on 02 Nov 2007 - 17:56
Quote - (Chicane-UK said @ #
You know what? I personally think Leopard is far beyond a Service Pack. But if we want to get into the drolling fanboy nonsense then i'm happy to oblige.

If the Windows fanboys thing Leopard is a service pack, then good for them. You know what? I'd gladly pay for Apple's versions of Service Packs because unlike Microsofts they actually fix and IMPROVE the freaking OS unlike the Microsoft approach which is to bolt on more and more tat and bloat, break stuff that used to work ok in the process and sell it as an entirely new product.

The best thing Microsoft could come up with to sell Vista, as the 'wow the customers' type feature was the freaking 3D Alt-Tab replacement. That was the basis for an entire advert that ran on TV - in fact the only Vista commercial i've ever seen! Sign me up! 3D alt-tab! What a killer feature! --> http://youtube.com/watch?v=f7ZVKG8rRfA

Keep using Windows. Good for you. We'll keep paying for our "service packs" and enjoying the superb innovation Apple has and continues to show.

[/fanboymode]


The consumer is easily swayed by pretty looking animations. This is just like videos I have seen of Time Machine in Leopard - all style and little substance. In fact, one could apply that to most of the OS - it moves prettily, does fancy animations, but in the end, tasks that can easily be done on Windows (keeping a customized view of a folder for example) require multiple mouse clicks and quickly become annoying on OS X.

OS X is great for people who want to do tasks a single way - the way Steve Jobs envisions. If you are the type of person who wants to do things your way, like me, OS X is not for you.


Vista runs quicker than XP on my systems - I would like to see Apple release OS X for any hardware, and see how long it would take for people to start complaining about sluggish performance.
The difference between a Windows release and an OS X release:

Apple release:
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html
24 improvements in iChat!!!!!!!1!1!! 11 new language packs! New stationary in Mail! Ability to forward attachments! ...etc.

Microsoft release:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_fea...o_Windows_Vista

And those are just the technical improvements. Look at the other features:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_Vista

In total there are 100x more real features - for nearly the same price (upgrade pricing).

Which OS gives you more for your money?

Last edited by NateB1 on 02 Nov 2007 - 18:04
#3.9 +Chicane-UK on 02 Nov 2007 - 19:36
Quote -
This is just like videos I have seen of Time Machine in Leopard - all style and little substance.


Amusing. Most technology journalists have praised Time Machine because it brings a powerful and friendly interface (not to mention an easy, automated method) to backups which most users neglect to take care of. To dismiss it as 'all style and little substance' is a ridiculous comment frankly.

Quote -
OS X is great for people who want to do tasks a single way - the way Steve Jobs envisions. If you are the type of person who wants to do things your way, like me, OS X is not for you.


I agree. Linux is what you need. Nothing worse than vendor lock in to prohibit you from accomplishing the tasks that you want to do in your own way.

Quote -
Vista runs quicker than XP on my systems - I would like to see Apple release OS X for any hardware, and see how long it would take for people to start complaining about sluggish performance.


I would argue that, again, you've used a poor aspect of the OS to base your argument on. Read through the Leopard discussion thread - almost everyone on there is finding that Leopard is running noticably faster than Tiger for them. Especially laptop users it seems. Initial complains about sluggishness have been down to Spotlight building its initial index.

Quote -
And those are just the technical improvements. Look at the other features:


But look at it from the consumers point of view. Aero is a fancy UI that ultimately gives no more flexibility or advantage over the classic interface. It looks pretty.. um.. and thats about it. Search.. well, big deal. Apple users have Spotlight. Sidebar? Dashboard. Updates to Windows Mail / Calendaring / Internet Explorer I wouldn't call features.. i'd call them outright ESSENTIAL if Microsoft were to be taken seriously given how much of a threat the alternative browsers (and web based apps like GMail) are. Media Player - I personally couldn't care about it. I've never used it for its advanced features as I just find it slow and cumbersome - one of the complaints Windows users seem to level at iTunes, but i've always liked iTunes even before I got a mac.

Quote -
Which OS gives you more for your money?


Well thats subject to individual opinion. You prefer Windows clearly. I think Windows's days are numbered and I think products like Leopard are (and if not damn well SHOULD be) causing Microsoft some real headaches.

Ultimately arguing to tell someone which OS is better is a futile thing. OSX has blown me away.. I come from a Windows background but have gotten ever more incensed by what it has become. I'm a legit user but WGA drives me up the wall, as does updating - it takes FOREVER. Seriously, run a software update on a Mac (even if there are 100's of MB's to download) and it does it in a fraction of the time. For me its a far better choice than Vista at this point.

I continue to use Windows day to day at work (i'm a Windows System Admin) and some things you can do are great - but for home use I adore the mac and more specifically now Leopard.
#3.10 MioTheGreat on 03 Nov 2007 - 02:46
Quote -
But look at it from the consumers point of view. Aero is a fancy UI that ultimately gives no more flexibility or advantage over the classic interface.


That is COMPLETELY untrue.

The desktop is now 3d accelerated via DWM. This goes hand in hand with Aero.

This leads to a lot of nice features that go beyond eye candy.

The only 'Flicker' left in the system is caused by apps, not GDI+ trying to play catchup.
Frozen apps no longer cause that stupid ghosting effect.
Overall responsivness is improved.
Good DPI scaling is possible thanks to the DWM being able to do raster scaling on windows.
Hardware acceleration for WPF apps.

And that's not even everything it brings to the user. Suffice it to say, Aero is not just a pretty interface. I mean, I'm perfectly aware that Windows is a bit late to the 3d desktop game (Though, all of the people I know running Linux don't use Beryl, or Compiz, or whatever the 3d desktop managers are, unless they're trying to impress people, because they claim they're not ready for 24/7 use.), but that doesn't stop it from being a very big and useful feature in Vista.
#3.11 +Chicane-UK on 03 Nov 2007 - 08:22
Quote -
That is COMPLETELY untrue.


Well - i'm not so sure it is. Obviously its just my opinion but I don't feel that, as a user, I can achieve any more (or less) using the hardware accelerated UI. Don't get me wrong - despite my criticisms of Windows Vista, I find Aero to be a nice improvement and I like the way Vista LOOKS - and there is no doubting that a HW accelerated UI is a far smoother experience overall (and that is true on all platforms - be it OSX, Linux with Compiz, or Windows Vista) but I would contend that "joe public" would have absolutely no idea whether the UI was accelerated unless you really went to town on desktop cubes and other such effects.. but if you had a pretty much spot on Vista theme running on XP they would notice no difference. Geeks amongst us would notice the glass and 3D scaling effects instantly but i'd be surprised if a fairly inexperienced standard home user would have any clue whats going on.
(6 replies) #4 whocares78 on 02 Nov 2007 - 04:40
first they copied the bluescreens now they copy the WOW factor
#4.1 LTD on 02 Nov 2007 - 05:02
Quote - (whocares78 said @ #4)
now they copy the WOW factor


The Wow Factor died in 2003 with Longhorn.
#4.2 whocares78 on 02 Nov 2007 - 05:16
Quote - (LTD said @ #4.1)
Quote - (whocares78 said @ #4)
now they copy the WOW factor


The Wow Factor died in 2003 with Longhorn.

firstly do you understadn the term copy

secondly you obviously didn't watch any of the comercials they showed in Australia, thats all they went on about was the wow factor in vista. the only wow i got was wow this is crap
#4.3 ikyouCrow on 02 Nov 2007 - 12:30
the WOW actually refered to the photography competition, didn't it?
i don't know where everyone got this WOW = Vista idea from.
#4.4 Esvandiary on 02 Nov 2007 - 19:34
Quote - (whocares78 said @ #4.2)
firstly do you understadn the term copy

secondly you obviously didn't watch any of the comercials they showed in Australia, thats all they went on about was the wow factor in vista. the only wow i got was wow this is crap

Actually, his comment just went straight over your head. What he meant was that Longhorn was actually looking like it could be good (although I'd argue 2004 not 2003; build 4074 with the transparency actually was exciting and ran well). Vista, now, isn't what Longhorn could and probably should have been - that's what (I think) he meant.
#4.5 LTD on 02 Nov 2007 - 23:02
Quote - (Esvandiary said @ #4.4)
Quote - (whocares78 said @ #4.2)
firstly do you understadn the term copy

secondly you obviously didn't watch any of the comercials they showed in Australia, thats all they went on about was the wow factor in vista. the only wow i got was wow this is crap

Actually, his comment just went straight over your head. What he meant was that Longhorn was actually looking like it could be good (although I'd argue 2004 not 2003; build 4074 with the transparency actually was exciting and ran well). Vista, now, isn't what Longhorn could and probably should have been - that's what (I think) he meant.


And you'd be right.

#4.6 +Dakkaroth on 03 Nov 2007 - 06:34
Quote - (LTD said @ #4.5)
Quote - (Esvandiary said @ #4.4)
Quote - (whocares78 said @ #4.2)
firstly do you understadn the term copy

secondly you obviously didn't watch any of the comercials they showed in Australia, thats all they went on about was the wow factor in vista. the only wow i got was wow this is crap

Actually, his comment just went straight over your head. What he meant was that Longhorn was actually looking like it could be good (although I'd argue 2004 not 2003; build 4074 with the transparency actually was exciting and ran well). Vista, now, isn't what Longhorn could and probably should have been - that's what (I think) he meant.


And you'd be right.


Wouldn't matter if Longhorn had no errors, viruses, was hackproof, and holy all-in-all, you'd still be justifying your purchase for an Apple computer.
#5 Mav Phoenix on 02 Nov 2007 - 04:49
Is it me or is the article graphic (leopard bo really wide?
#6 GreyWolfSC on 02 Nov 2007 - 05:26
That article was written by "Joe Hutsko" who is an former Apple employee. It's an ad.
#7 GreyWolfSC on 02 Nov 2007 - 05:26
[Whoops. Delete me!]
(5 replies) #8 Neo-Lenin on 02 Nov 2007 - 05:30
I seriously dont get it. Vista has almost all of these 300 features, yet people are like "its crap" but then when Leopard includes the same **** with prettier packaging its like "its amazing, just ... WOW!"... like WTF!
#8.1 RAID 0 on 02 Nov 2007 - 05:32
That's the million dollar question.

The "wow" for me started this morning when I took a dump.. it was spotted with peanuts. I was like "this must be what Leopard is like, WOW!"

#8.2 billyea on 02 Nov 2007 - 06:04
you'd be surprised how many people appreciate the fancy packaging
iPhone, good features, not the best, but man is that design sweet
I personally like Vista's visual fit and finish, and that adds to the experience. Leopard also has a certain amount of simplicity, there's not too much going on.

Last edited by billyea on 02 Nov 2007 - 06:19
#8.3 QuarterSwede on 02 Nov 2007 - 07:45
The little I've used Vista makes me wonder why people hate it. I personally think it's a heck of a lot better than XP. I still much prefer OS X to Windows but Vista is surely better than XP.
#8.4 whocares78 on 02 Nov 2007 - 07:57
Quote - (QuarterSwede said @ #8.3)
The little I've used Vista makes me wonder why people hate it. I personally think it's a heck of a lot better than XP. I still much prefer OS X to Windows but Vista is surely better than XP.


all that says to me is you do not pick technology for technology, you pick technology for prettiness, Vista as it currently stands with current vendor support plain and simply is not better than XP as it currently stands. you have an OS that is battle hardened and supported by basically everything, to one that is only a year old not had any SP's relased and still isn't supported by a lot of apps.
#8.5 anthonyspt on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:28
Quote - (whocares78 said @ #8.4)
Quote - (QuarterSwede said @ #8.3)
The little I've used Vista makes me wonder why people hate it. I personally think it's a heck of a lot better than XP. I still much prefer OS X to Windows but Vista is surely better than XP.


all that says to me is you do not pick technology for technology, you pick technology for prettiness, Vista as it currently stands with current vendor support plain and simply is not better than XP as it currently stands. you have an OS that is battle hardened and supported by basically everything, to one that is only a year old not had any SP's relased and still isn't supported by a lot of apps.


Ok, name the lack in vendor or driver support. And sure while you are at it, name the applications that are incompatible with Vista.

Here is the rub, Vista deals with a 100x times the applications OS X does, yet if you read the Apple forums on leopard and compare them to the Vista forums, you can 'already' count more software that is incompatible or fails on Leopard than was even failing on Vista when it was in Beta. Next, Vista deals with 100x times the harddware and hardware configurations as OS X, and yet again, if you find hardware that doesn't work with Vista, and compare to the Leopard forums, there are more devices failing with Leopard in a week than Vista encountered in a year.

(Do some digging, both user forums are open to review.)

At this point in time, there are virtually 'no' incompatible applications for Vista. There are very 'few' hardware devices that don't work on Vista. Vista in fact has more device drivers than Windows XP, even Vista 64 has more drivers than the standard 32bit version of Windows XP, and finding Vista 64 drivers is a bit harder.

The only hardware I have seen recently still fail on Vista are a few generic brand scanners that the MFRs would rather you buy a new one then make a driver. There are also a few HP scanners and Multifunction devices that HP simply will not make new drivers for. Ouch. (HP has a habit of 'recreating' the print subsystem instead of using Windows like Canon, Epson and either other printer MFR does.) So this makes new drivers a bit 'harder' for them. In contrast to the older HP scanner/printers that don't work, we have tons of multifunction brother, canon, epson, and various other devices that just 'simply worked' when plugged into Vista. Even the photographic printer drivers from companies like Epson, just work and provide all the features. We also have a bunch of 'junk' multi-function and low end printers like Lexmarks and Brother $79 multifunction Fax/printer/scanner/card reader devices, and everyone of them has just worked when plugged into Vista.

So outside of a few HP models, go for it, give us a 'vast' list of products and software that doesn't work with Vista, and make sure you fair and just include the list of software and hardware from the Apple forums that fails with Leopard that has been found in just one week.

I already know Leopard loses, but if you are game, go for it...
#9 Albert on 02 Nov 2007 - 06:56
funny. if i replaces "apple" with "microsoft", and "leopard" with "vista", in the article, it still make sense ...
(4 replies) #10 Lt-DavidW on 02 Nov 2007 - 09:13
And yet the Macfans were complaining that Vista is bloated.
#10.1 Neo-Lenin on 02 Nov 2007 - 11:35
Quote - (Lt-DavidW said @ #10)
And yet the Macfans were complaining that Vista is bloated.


The mac commercials did the same thing. "Look at PC, hes FAT cause he's bloated!" then Leopard comes out, "Leopard is 'excessively overweight' due to new "FEATURES" ... all 300 of them!"
#10.2 whistlerxp on 02 Nov 2007 - 14:58
There's a difference, they were saying PCs were bloated with 'crapware' from ad companies. Macs have like a trial of Microsoft Office and that's it.

...could also be considered 'crapware' :p
#10.3 raskren on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:21
Quote - (whistlerxp said @ #10.2)
There's a difference, they were saying PCs were bloated with 'crapware' from ad companies. Macs have like a trial of Microsoft Office and that's it.

...could also be considered 'crapware' :p

You forgot
Quickbooks
iWork
Comic Life
Omni...whatever
#10.4 LTD on 02 Nov 2007 - 23:06
Quote - (Lt-DavidW said @ #10)
And yet the Macfans were complaining that Vista is bloated.


Bloated . . . Windows has always been that. Legacy support, legacy support . . .
(6 replies) #11 REM2000 on 02 Nov 2007 - 09:28
Well on my 2 year old powerbook Leopard is running faster than Tiger, on my 1 year old dell pc Vista runs slower than XP (The dell has 2GB RAM, Dual Core etc..)

That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.

Yes 300 features/changes is scraping the barrell as some thing are nice to have but nothing to get too excited about. The core things added to leopard makes it impressive, the underlying technologies also make me excited for what the future holds for 3rd party (Delicious library 2). It's a shame as with Vista and it's WPF i would have expected some wow applications to be released by 3rd Parties by now. The demo of the di'vinci notes in interactive form was superb.
#11.1 anthonyspt on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:32
Quote -
That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.


Again stuff like this scares me. Have you used Windows Photo Gallery, that has more features than iPhoto, including 'infinite' file system level version saves for the pictures?

And you do realize Vista's backup and 'previous version' system, is a one click thing to turn on(like Time Machine) but works better because it does both volume level file versioning (on the hard drive so it doesn't have to be copied off every hour), and it is integrated with the simple backup system, so you can go through the 'previous version' timeline to restore files or folder, or do full system level restores. (And basic previous versions and versioning is turned on by default and doesn't even require a backup, so it can be used before you even backup or get an external drive.)

I know people have tried to confuse the market with Time Machine, but it is barely even catching up to Vista, and certainly doesn't have all the backup and 'versioning' features Vista does.

Last edited by anthonyspt on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:45
#11.2 bobbba on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:46
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #11.1)
<i>That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.
</i>

Again stuff like this scares me. Have you used Windows Photo Gallery, that has more features than iPhoto, including 'infinite' file system level version saves for the pictures?

And you do realize Vista's backup and 'previous version' system, is a one click thing to turn on(like Time Machine) but works better because it does both volume level file versioning (on the hard drive so it doesn't have to be copied off every hour), and it is integrated with the simple backup system, so you can go through the 'previous version' timeline to restore files or folder, or do full system level restores.

I know people have tried to confuse the market with Time Machine, but it is barely even catching up to Vista, and certainly doesn't have all the backup and 'versioning' featuers Vista does.


Doesn't Vista's previous version feature only work with the same hard drive so that unlike with time machine, everything is lost if the drive fails/gets corrupted/is stolen/virus infected...

iPhoto is not part of leopard so it's not strictly relevant here and I've used windows photo gallery as well and I don't find the feature set or the everyday use as good as iPhoto.

Last edited by bobbba on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:52
#11.3 Neo-Lenin on 02 Nov 2007 - 11:33
Quote - (bobbba said @ #11.2)
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #11.1)
<i>That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.
</i>

Again stuff like this scares me. Have you used Windows Photo Gallery, that has more features than iPhoto, including 'infinite' file system level version saves for the pictures?

And you do realize Vista's backup and 'previous version' system, is a one click thing to turn on(like Time Machine) but works better because it does both volume level file versioning (on the hard drive so it doesn't have to be copied off every hour), and it is integrated with the simple backup system, so you can go through the 'previous version' timeline to restore files or folder, or do full system level restores.

I know people have tried to confuse the market with Time Machine, but it is barely even catching up to Vista, and certainly doesn't have all the backup and 'versioning' featuers Vista does.


Doesn't Vista's previous version feature only work with the same hard drive so that unlike with time machine, everything is lost if the drive fails/gets corrupted/is stolen/virus infected...

iPhoto is not part of leopard so it's not strictly relevant here and I've used windows photo gallery as well and I don't find the feature set or the everyday use as good as iPhoto.


The answer is .... no.. I have an external harddrive which Vista constantly updates with the most recent backup of absolutely everything while at the same time keeping a backup copy on my native harddrive.
#11.4 bobbba on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:00
Quote - (Neo-Lenin said @ #11.3)
Quote - (bobbba said @ #11.2)
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #11.1)
<i>That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.
</i>

Again stuff like this scares me. Have you used Windows Photo Gallery, that has more features than iPhoto, including 'infinite' file system level version saves for the pictures?

And you do realize Vista's backup and 'previous version' system, is a one click thing to turn on(like Time Machine) but works better because it does both volume level file versioning (on the hard drive so it doesn't have to be copied off every hour), and it is integrated with the simple backup system, so you can go through the 'previous version' timeline to restore files or folder, or do full system level restores.

I know people have tried to confuse the market with Time Machine, but it is barely even catching up to Vista, and certainly doesn't have all the backup and 'versioning' featuers Vista does.


Doesn't Vista's previous version feature only work with the same hard drive so that unlike with time machine, everything is lost if the drive fails/gets corrupted/is stolen/virus infected...

iPhoto is not part of leopard so it's not strictly relevant here and I've used windows photo gallery as well and I don't find the feature set or the everyday use as good as iPhoto.


The answer is .... no.. I have an external harddrive which Vista constantly updates with the most recent backup of absolutely everything while at the same time keeping a backup copy on my native harddrive.


I think you may be dreaming on this one... given that the MS page on Vista Shadow Copy/Previous Versions does not say anything about your previous versions being stored on a separate disk.

I also note that Vista's Previous Version feature is not available to Vista Home users, only Business or Ultimate editions.
#11.5 Neo-Lenin on 02 Nov 2007 - 17:46
Quote - (bobbba said @ #11.4)
Quote - (Neo-Lenin said @ #11.3)
Quote - (bobbba said @ #11.2)
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #11.1)
<i>That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.
</i>

Again stuff like this scares me. Have you used Windows Photo Gallery, that has more features than iPhoto, including 'infinite' file system level version saves for the pictures?

And you do realize Vista's backup and 'previous version' system, is a one click thing to turn on(like Time Machine) but works better because it does both volume level file versioning (on the hard drive so it doesn't have to be copied off every hour), and it is integrated with the simple backup system, so you can go through the 'previous version' timeline to restore files or folder, or do full system level restores.

I know people have tried to confuse the market with Time Machine, but it is barely even catching up to Vista, and certainly doesn't have all the backup and 'versioning' featuers Vista does.


Doesn't Vista's previous version feature only work with the same hard drive so that unlike with time machine, everything is lost if the drive fails/gets corrupted/is stolen/virus infected...

iPhoto is not part of leopard so it's not strictly relevant here and I've used windows photo gallery as well and I don't find the feature set or the everyday use as good as iPhoto.


The answer is .... no.. I have an external harddrive which Vista constantly updates with the most recent backup of absolutely everything while at the same time keeping a backup copy on my native harddrive.


I think you may be dreaming on this one... given that the MS page on Vista Shadow Copy/Previous Versions does not say anything about your previous versions being stored on a separate disk.

I also note that Vista's Previous Version feature is not available to Vista Home users, only Business or Ultimate editions.


For your information I do have Vista Business and yes it does back up's on seperate drives. Would you like to see a screenshot?
#11.6 bobbba on 02 Nov 2007 - 22:37
Quote - (Neo-Lenin said @ #11.5)
Quote - (bobbba said @ #11.4)
Quote - (Neo-Lenin said @ #11.3)
Quote - (bobbba said @ #11.2)
Quote - (anthonyspt said @ #11.1)
<i>That in itself is Wow, having to not remember to do backup's to my external HDD, and having the ability to search and restore files/photo's in iphoto etc in a clear interface is additional wow.
</i>

Again stuff like this scares me. Have you used Windows Photo Gallery, that has more features than iPhoto, including 'infinite' file system level version saves for the pictures?

And you do realize Vista's backup and 'previous version' system, is a one click thing to turn on(like Time Machine) but works better because it does both volume level file versioning (on the hard drive so it doesn't have to be copied off every hour), and it is integrated with the simple backup system, so you can go through the 'previous version' timeline to restore files or folder, or do full system level restores.

I know people have tried to confuse the market with Time Machine, but it is barely even catching up to Vista, and certainly doesn't have all the backup and 'versioning' featuers Vista does.


Doesn't Vista's previous version feature only work with the same hard drive so that unlike with time machine, everything is lost if the drive fails/gets corrupted/is stolen/virus infected...

iPhoto is not part of leopard so it's not strictly relevant here and I've used windows photo gallery as well and I don't find the feature set or the everyday use as good as iPhoto.


The answer is .... no.. I have an external harddrive which Vista constantly updates with the most recent backup of absolutely everything while at the same time keeping a backup copy on my native harddrive.


I think you may be dreaming on this one... given that the MS page on Vista Shadow Copy/Previous Versions does not say anything about your previous versions being stored on a separate disk.

I also note that Vista's Previous Version feature is not available to Vista Home users, only Business or Ultimate editions.


For your information I do have Vista Business and yes it does back up's on seperate drives. Would you like to see a screenshot?


just regular backup or previous versions? time machine does both...
(3 replies) #12 hotdog963al on 02 Nov 2007 - 10:34
Hurray for Leopard!
#12.1 raskren on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:25
And this relates to the topic how?
#12.2 bobbba on 02 Nov 2007 - 22:39
Quote - (raskren said @ #12.1)
And this relates to the topic how?


ermm the topic is "feature rich leopard will wow mac users" so so a comment celebrating leopard's release is not exactly irrelevant even if the article itself is not particularly newsworthy
#12.3 ANova on 03 Nov 2007 - 03:37
Quote - (raskren said @ #12.1)
And this relates to the topic how?


You're kidding right?
(3 replies) #13 RedCoat999 on 02 Nov 2007 - 11:15
I've got to say, that list of over 300 features at the Apple website is very impressive. Now mac users can watch DVD's on top of other windows, and now have a time bar slider to move around the DVD. WOW factor baby, wow. Plus another one of those 300 is Safari now warns users when closing multiple tabs. They can also empty the trash from within the Trash itself, outstanding! Plus more smileys built within iChat.
#13.1 ikyouCrow on 02 Nov 2007 - 12:41
are those seriously new features in Leopard? WOW indeed.
my Mac buddy Kofster did say that list was bogus, that a lot of what they list as new already exist in Tiger.
#13.2 RedCoat999 on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:26
Quote - (ikyouCrow said @ #13.1)
are those seriously new features in Leopard? WOW indeed.
my Mac buddy Kofster did say that list was bogus, that a lot of what they list as new already exist in Tiger.


plus many more! http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html
#13.3 Esvandiary on 02 Nov 2007 - 19:37
How many was that, sorry? 300?

THIS... IS... LEOPAAAAAARD!!!



... Yeah, I'll find the door myself.
#14 JiveMasterT on 02 Nov 2007 - 13:33
Leopard broke more for me than it did good. I like spaces, but I hate how basic functionality I've been used to is gone, destroyed, or doesn't work like it used to. Maybe I need a clean install but I really regret upgrading to Leopard.
#15 +majortom1981 on 02 Nov 2007 - 13:37
To me it seems like apple and microsoft have more in common then people think.
#16 Shadrack on 02 Nov 2007 - 14:54
People are complaining about Leopard because Vista got so much bad press? Wait, what? Sure, Vista isn't as bad as the press made it out to be. Sure, Leopard isn't as good as the press is making it out to be.

Could it be.... that the media is somehow bias? *SHOCK* *HORROR*!
#17 vetneufuse on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:09
Alright, looking at Leopard now, nothign seems to me "wowing" me... it's just a ton of minor improvements nothing huge...
(6 replies) #18 C_Guy on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:18
The WOW of Leopard and the WOW of Vista are vastly different.

Leopard: WOW, you really call 10 insignificant DVD Player changes an innovation?
Vista: WOW, it's like Longhorn with the major innovations not-yet implemented.
#18.1 phantasmorph on 02 Nov 2007 - 15:53
Key phrase: not-yet implemented. As in, they will be, eventually. And when they are, they'll more than likely be in an actual Service Pack that's named accordingly, not some point-version upgrade touted as an entire OS, with a $130 price tag.

Shame, I wish SP1 for Vista came in a holographic box that I could lose my mind over. Here's hoping.
#18.2 MioTheGreat on 02 Nov 2007 - 17:24
Name a few things that didn't make it into Vista. Seriously.

I mean, obviously there's WinFS, but the vast majority of its functions were assimilated pretty cleanly by the Indexer.

But please, go on and name a few.
#18.3 Esvandiary on 02 Nov 2007 - 19:40
Quote - (MioTheGreat said @ #18.2)
Name a few things that didn't make it into Vista. Seriously.

I'll pick out one because it's my personal gripe: a decent sidebar. I'm assuming they haven't released the sidebar that uses MS's own excellent technology (.NET/WPF) instead of ignoring it and using DHTML/JavaScript... Sorry, but that one really did make them look pretty stupid.

There are quite a few more if we're going back to the Longhorn 4xxx days, but that sole decision with regards to the sidebar spoke volumes about the OS for me.
#18.4 MioTheGreat on 02 Nov 2007 - 21:13
Quote - (Esvandiary said @ #18.3)
Quote - (MioTheGreat said @ #18.2)
Name a few things that didn't make it into Vista. Seriously.

I'll pick out one because it's my personal gripe: a decent sidebar. I'm assuming they haven't released the sidebar that uses MS's own excellent technology (.NET/WPF) instead of ignoring it and using DHTML/JavaScript... Sorry, but that one really did make them look pretty stupid.

There are quite a few more if we're going back to the Longhorn 4xxx days, but that sole decision with regards to the sidebar spoke volumes about the OS for me.


Ok. I'll give you that one. A WPF Sidebar would make a lot more sense.
#18.5 brianshapiro on 03 Nov 2007 - 03:00
MioTheGreat,

WinFS is one. a vector based GUI is another--original idea was a vector based GUI that primarily utilized WPF--and resized to any resolution
also the Sidebar was a lot more advanced , and took over the function of the system tray. the original point of the sidebar was for containing things like IM user lists, etc. There are some gadgets like this now, but they're hacks compared to what would have been allowed
#18.6 ANova on 03 Nov 2007 - 03:49
Quote - (phantasmorph said @ #18.1)
Key phrase: not-yet implemented. As in, they will be, eventually. And when they are, they'll more than likely be in an actual Service Pack that's named accordingly, not some point-version upgrade touted as an entire OS, with a $130 price tag.


Sorry but, no. You might finally see the features that were supposed to be in Vista but they won't come as a service pack. No, they'll come as a new os in Windows 7 for a mere $500.
#19 LTD on 02 Nov 2007 - 23:09
http://blog.fastcompany.com/archives/2007/...first_take.html

From the article:

What I'm getting at here is more an assessment of Apple's sound business strategy than its cult-inspiring design or technology. Apple didn't have to radicalize the MP3 player before succeeding with the iPod, and they didn't invent much for Leopard, either. But what they consistently do better than anyone else (ahem, Redmond, Washington) is take stock of what smart people are doing on the fringes of the Valley. They look around, asking, Where is the VC money going to these days? Who's doing something that will simplify, rather than confuse, the lives of computer users? As it turns out, the answers to those questions usually lead Apple to folks who have done the heavy lifting for them, and it's simply their willingness to throw money at the idea that gets them ahead in the PC space. Microsoft, with their gobs of capital, has yet to figure out how to do this effectively; they get in too late, with too little (see Facebook; Zune).

At heart, it doesn't really matter if you like Apple or hate them. Leopard's salient improvements will trickle down to the next version of Windows, as well as the next round of cell phones, public computing systems, and handhelds. As more companies look to Apple for copycat material, more of what makes the Mac OS great will improve computing on the whole. Apple may have only 6% market share, but it's safe to bet that whether or not you intend to, you'll eventually be loving something about Leopard. So save yourself some time, give in, and try it now.


Last edited by LTD on 02 Nov 2007 - 23:15
#20 ANova on 03 Nov 2007 - 03:44
Everyone copies everyone in this business. If you think Apple is the sole inventor I'm sorry to break it to you but you forgot to take off your Apple branded goggles again.

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