France unveils anti-piracy plan
Posted by oblomov on 24 November 2007 - 13:21 · 38 comments & 23623 views
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#1 Posted by Julius Caro on 24 Nov 2007 - 13:51
- How long until the ISPs realize that they don't want to kick off their customers? Do this with every file-sharer, watch the client base get halved!
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(3 replies)
#2 Posted by Lasker on 24 Nov 2007 - 14:09
- I think this anti-piracy plan could be right than send someone from 10 to 15 years in prison just for file sharing. Cutting off or suspending accounts is a better choice so these people can learn not to do it again.
Last edited by Lasker on 24 Nov 2007 - 15:50 -
#2.2 Posted by QuarterSwede on 25 Nov 2007 - 06:26
- Exactly. Hit em where it hurts. "Wha? I can't go online anymore? What else is there to do?" Welcome to the world.
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#2.3 Posted by nonick on 25 Nov 2007 - 10:47
- Quote - (QuarterSwede said @ #2.2)Exactly. Hit em where it hurts. "Wha? I can't go online anymore? What else is there to do?" Welcome to the world.
use someone elses' internet? use public cafes? use university/college internet? use wireless connection?
it's easy to bypass heh
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(6 replies)
#4 Posted by Barton71 on 24 Nov 2007 - 17:03
- Why do they need to go about punishing people? Why not take the easy option? Put a small fee in to the price of broadband, and let people share music. For example, in the UK, there are 9.5 million homes with a broadband connection. Increase the broadband fees by £5 per month and give that £5 to the music industry, and let them distribute it to the so called "artists". That would be about £570 million a year for the music industry from online fees alone. They would still generate income from people attending music concerts, buying memorabilia and from people who still want to own original CD's. Do that, and you will virtually eradicate online music piracy over night, and you would free up the time of the authorities, who could then concentrate on the real criminals who profit from selling bootleg CD's.
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#4.1 Posted by Ledgem on 24 Nov 2007 - 20:31
- I believe Canada does something similar, only instead of putting a "music industry tax" on broadband they put it on recordable optical media. It doesn't make the issue of piracy go away, but it does remove some legitamacy from the industry lawsuits up there.
Your suggestion does sound good and would be a nice middle ground, but I don't like it. The first reason is that you're giving the recording industry profits that they are not working to generate. Suppose I use the internet for purposes besides downloading music - you're telling me that the recording industry, which doesn't contribute to my broadband service, is entitled to some of my broadband bill? Under what merit? They'd love it, I'm sure. No matter how small a jump in my internet bill to pay them, it would bother me simply because they're getting money that they truly do not deserve.
The next reason why this bothers me is what you mentioned about how else the industry would derive profits. You mention that people who want to own original CDs would be another source of profit. If we're all going to be getting taxed, then the music had better damn well be free. If you want a physical CD, pay for the product but none of the overhead. If you want to download through a service like iTunes, pay for the bandwidth, but none of the overhead. By overhead, I'm referring to the seemingly arbitrary price hike. CD prices are more reasonable these days, but it wasn't too long ago that a single CD cost around the $20 mark. In my mind, that's a bit of an extreme price jump from what you'd expect.
So if you want to tax us for music, the music had damn well better be freely available. Somehow I can't imagine that the record labels would agree to this. I also have to wonder if the smaller artists, who try to make their profits on their own, wouldn't be adversely affected by this - with people being accustomed to just paying a music tax rather than paying for the music itself, and the taxes going to the larger companies, it seems you'd be setting up a hostile environment for the smaller artists.
Overall conclusion: your idea sounds nice and does have some merit, but ultimately there's a larger issue to be dealt with here and your idea doesn't aid in advancing its resolution. -
#4.2 Posted by aludanyi on 24 Nov 2007 - 21:55
- Why would I pay 5 quid or even a cent to the music industry if I don't share their music, or if I don't listen music or if I am a hearing disabled person and music don't mean anything to me? Why would I pay for services I don't need, don't use, don't want? Can you imagine the lack of incentives for the music industry to have quality music if you secure the (high) income for them by legal (political) means? Can you imagine, what would be the result if anyone just ask the government to mandate an income to them by law? Do you even imagine that you are talking about communism? Well, I don't think so...
The real problem is in the IP (an awkward and false word) legislation. And idiots known as politicians made this mess, and we stupid people looking up to them to solve the mess they deliberately or not deliberately (who knows) created, and every day make it worse... well I don't know, but I buy every music I listen if I like that music, and I don't want to pay another tax in my life, just because the music industry has powerful friends in high politics. About this nonsense to "cut" the Internet to citizens... well I think if stealing is illegal then you have to catch the criminals, to raise charges against them and if sufficient evidents presented, the outcome should depend on the court on the law. If the government can "cut" you off something because he thinks you broke the law, without a court trial... well thats called tyranny. And if stealing is illegal, and you are convicted, then the "punishment" should be to repay the damages to the damaged person (not millions but the real damages) and not to be "cut" off the Internet, because first the Internet is not just about music it is about many other things it is about information, and I believe every man (even the criminals) are endowed with inalienable rights... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Information is like oxygen, if you "cut" it you will commit the worst crime imaginable. -
#4.3 Posted by Foub on 25 Nov 2007 - 11:09
- Quote - (aludanyi said @ #6.2)Why would I pay 5 quid or even a cent to the music industry if I don't share their music, or if I don't listen music or if I am a hearing disabled person and music don't mean anything to me? Why would I pay for services I don't need, don't use, don't want? Can you imagine the lack of incentives for the music industry to have quality music if you secure the (high) income for them by legal (political) means? Can you imagine, what would be the result if anyone just ask the government to mandate an income to them by law? Do you even imagine that you are talking about communism? Well, I don't think so...
Do you know even what Communism actually is? -
#4.4 Posted by aludanyi on 25 Nov 2007 - 11:53
- I hope, you can tell me, because you probably know more than I do. Well I don't want to waste my or for that matter your time on this, but let me say that I lived in a real communist country in Central Europe for more than 20 years, that I read all the significant communist literature (Marx for example) and all the significant literature against communism (like a few books from Mises for example), but... well why not hear another opinion about the whole thing, so go ahead give it a shot. You can call it communism, corporatism, fascism, socialism, etc. there is some differences among them, but the truth is that the general concept of all this "X-ism" is an institution of coercion, mandating what someone believes is good someone believes is right, the tyranny of the politicians or the majority, the "scientific" name of all of those systems is collectivism and it is the polar opposite of liberty, freedom it is the true enemy of man.
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#4.5 Posted by icat on 25 Nov 2007 - 13:42
- Quote - (aludanyi said @ #6.4)I hope, you can tell me, because you probably know more than I do. Well I don't want to waste my or for that matter your time on this, but let me say that I lived in a real communist country in Central Europe for more than 20 years, that I read all the significant communist literature (Marx for example) and all the significant literature against communism (like a few books from Mises for example), but... well why not hear another opinion about the whole thing, so go ahead give it a shot. You can call it communism, corporatism, fascism, socialism, etc. there is some differences among them, but the truth is that the general concept of all this "X-ism" is an institution of coercion, mandating what someone believes is good someone believes is right, the tyranny of the politicians or the majority, the "scientific" name of all of those systems is collectivism and it is the polar opposite of liberty, freedom it is the true enemy of man.
agree with that point, by agreeing with such things we deliberately limit our freedom which will have really bad consequences when we finally realize that -
#4.6 Posted by Barton71 on 25 Nov 2007 - 23:35
- Quote - (aludanyi said @ #6.2)The real problem is in the IP (an awkward and false word) legislation. And idiots known as politicians made this mess, and we stupid people looking up to them to solve the mess they deliberately or not deliberately (who knows) created, and every day make it worse... well I don't know, but I buy every music I listen if I like that music, and I don't want to pay another tax in my life, just because the music industry has powerful friends in high politics. About this nonsense to "cut" the Internet to citizens... well I think if stealing is illegal then you have to catch the criminals, to raise charges against them and if sufficient evidents presented, the outcome should depend on the court on the law. If the government can "cut" you off something because he thinks you broke the law, without a court trial... well thats called tyranny. And if stealing is illegal, and you are convicted, then the "punishment" should be to repay the damages to the damaged person (not millions but the real damages) and not to be "cut" off the Internet, because first the Internet is not just about music it is about many other things it is about information, and I believe every man (even the criminals) are endowed with inalienable rights... life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Information is like oxygen, if you "cut" it you will commit the worst crime imaginable.
I wouldn't disagree that the IP laws do need updating to suit the internet age, but i dont see them as the real problem. Everyone has the right to protect their work. If an "artist" couldn't protect their work, then they wouldn't make any money, so there would be no incentive for anyone to become a musician, other than for the love of music, and if that were the case, there would be very little music produced (same applies to software developers, authors, film makers, etc...). The problems as i see it, are the fair use policies associated with these works, and the pricing. That is the reason sites like alltunes.com were the most popular music sites on the internet. They offered music in a format which gave the consumer the ability to use it in which ever portable device they chose, and they sold the music at a much fairer price (as far as the consumer was concerned). I believe that people do want to pay for music, but they don't want to be ripped off by corporations which are making hundreds of millions of £ profit every year. Paying £6.99 for a full album download, which is DRM protected is not a good deal. Something will eventually give in this "war", and i think all the consumer can hope for is a bit more freedom to use music, that they have paid for, in which ever way they see fit. The law, with regards to pirates, is inevitably going to come down on the side of the IP owners.
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(2 replies)
#5 Posted by Skerit on 24 Nov 2007 - 17:04
- I'm not actually "pirating" because I don't want to pay;
I download tv shows because I want to watch them on my terms, and not wait some 1 to 2 years... Television as we know it is dead - or dying at least. And when they do do somethign like IPTV they can't just "divide" the internet in zones.
Dammit - if I want to buy MP3s on amazon, just let me... If I want to buy some show of iTunes, just let me! -
#5.1 Posted by Julius Caro on 24 Nov 2007 - 18:40
- Amen.
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#5.2 Posted by Dibbler on 24 Nov 2007 - 19:01
- Quote - (Skerit said @ #7)I'm not actually "pirating" because I don't want to pay;
I download tv shows because I want to watch them on my terms, and not wait some 1 to 2 years... Television as we know it is dead - or dying at least. And when they do do somethign like IPTV they can't just "divide" the internet in zones.
Dammit - if I want to buy MP3s on amazon, just let me... If I want to buy some show of iTunes, just let me!
I understand what you are saying
Just a point to think about though is when TV series makers produce a show they do that on the premise of selling it to networks who in turn understand that they will make revenue from appealing to advertisers when the show is broadcast. The advertisers pay for their slots based on the popularity of the show and viewing figures, amongst other reasons.
Now whether it is right that a TV series is shown a year or two, as you noted, later in another country or not, although I personally am not aware of such a huge gap, if more and more people decided to view the way that you do and come the time that it is then shown in your country the viewing figures could be down and revenues potentially lost.
Whether what I have written has any merit or not I do not know but it might be something to consider...?
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#6 Posted by meningitis on 24 Nov 2007 - 17:44
- good piraters need to suffer
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#7 Posted by Sphinx Myth on 24 Nov 2007 - 18:27
- Remember: government != nation.
This plan sucks, majors/lobbies suck, this government sucks.
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(1 reply)
#8 Posted by Arch on 24 Nov 2007 - 19:03
- Wait a second, France is LOWERING THE PUNISHMENT FOR ONLINE PIRACY from jail time and a fine in the thousands of dollars and you all think this is a bad thing? Do you think they let you use the internet in that jail cell? Would you rather go 1-2 years locked behind bars then another year on probation where you are not allowed to use a computer?
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(2 replies)
#9 Posted by X'tyfe on 24 Nov 2007 - 20:26
- there shouldnt be a punishment at all period
im not saying piracy is a good thing
but the internet is free, and no one has any right to govern it
with the exception of things that disrupt that freedom
Last edited by X'tyfe on 24 Nov 2007 - 21:13 -
#9.1 Posted by Twisted Dave on 24 Nov 2007 - 23:08
- Quote - (X'tyfe said @ #11)there shouldnt be a punishment at all period
im not saying piracy is a good thing
but the internet is free, and no one has any right to govern it
with the exception of things that disrupt that freedom
Please ...
ffs ... this is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever read.
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(3 replies)
#10 Posted by Croquant on 24 Nov 2007 - 20:36
- No surprise here. Nicolas Sarkozy is a Nazi in all but name.
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#10.1 Posted by solardog on 24 Nov 2007 - 23:18
- This is such a damned insult to everyone that actually lived through that time. He may suck and you may hate his politics, but he is nowhere near a nazi. Come on man, thats just friggin recockulous.
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#10.2 Posted by Foub on 25 Nov 2007 - 11:12
- You just broke Godwin's Law which states that whenever someone compares anyone or anything to the Nazis, or Hitler, in a discussion they automatically lose the discussion
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(5 replies)
#11 Posted by +brandnewfantx on 25 Nov 2007 - 06:28
- What does that do to their ISP I mean you cut off the customer that means they don't pay.... If no one pays how does the company make its money ? Third does this mean someone government or private is going to have to be watching every bit of data from every computer in the country ? Psh can't be done, France doesn't have the technology or the man power to do that.
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#11.1 Posted by RiVaLSSJ on 25 Nov 2007 - 06:45
- Quote - (brandnewfantx said @ #1)France doesn't have the technology ...
Why's that? Do you think that France is some uncivilized country or something? C'mon people, stop being so ignorant. -
#11.2 Posted by Croquant on 26 Nov 2007 - 06:00
- Quote - (RiVaLSSJ said @ #13.1)He's American. He can't help it. They're taught that America is "The Greatest Country On Earth" and other such nationalist nonsense. All they learn about the rest of the world is the usually neocon propaganda spouted by Fox Noise et. al and whatever they managed to pick up in school between heaping helpings of 'We Are So Great" indoctrination. Remember, any country that didn't join Bush's "War Of Terror" was promptly vilified and called names after 9/11. (You remember when those idiots in the US Congress passed a motion renaming "French Fires" to "Freedom Fires"? What a bunch of morons.) Heck, the Canadians joined Bush's "War Of Terror" and those American Fascits on Fox Noise STILL accused them of 'harboring terrorists' (which was, of course, complete bull****).Quote - (brandnewfantx said @ #1)France doesn't have the technology ...
Why's that? Do you think that France is some uncivilized country or something? C'mon people, stop being so ignorant.
So, what did you expect of the typical American Idiot (Brandnewfantx Jackassius)? He's been told he lives in the greatest country on earth, and since he doesn't know anything about any other country, he believes what he's been told. Ah, indoctrination; thy name is America. -
#11.3 Posted by Optix Illusion on 26 Nov 2007 - 06:36
- Quote - (Croquant said @ #13.2)Quote - (RiVaLSSJ said @ #13.1)He's American. He can't help it. They're taught that America is "The Greatest Country On Earth" and other such nationalist nonsense. All they learn about the rest of the world is the usually neocon propaganda spouted by Fox Noise et. al and whatever they managed to pick up in school between heaping helpings of 'We Are So Great" indoctrination. Remember, any country that didn't join Bush's "War Of Terror" was promptly vilified and called names after 9/11. (You remember when those idiots in the US Congress passed a motion renaming "French Fires" to "Freedom Fires"? What a bunch of morons.) Heck, the Canadians joined Bush's "War Of Terror" and those American Fascits on Fox Noise STILL accused them of 'harboring terrorists' (which was, of course, complete bull****).Quote - (brandnewfantx said @ #1)France doesn't have the technology ...
Why's that? Do you think that France is some uncivilized country or something? C'mon people, stop being so ignorant.
So, what did you expect of the typical American Idiot (Brandnewfantx Jackassius)? He's been told he lives in the greatest country on earth, and since he doesn't know anything about any other country, he believes what he's been told. Ah, indoctrination; thy name is America.
Someone give this guy another cheeseburger.
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#11.4 Posted by +WhiteHelmet411 on 26 Nov 2007 - 11:23
- Quote - (Optix Illusion said @ #13.3)Wow so true, America isn't the best country in the world, nor is it the worst. All of the stuff is just based in your opinion. And most of your opinion is based on a laws in the country. I'm not one to judge people by what country they live in, nor by the laws set by the country. whether France has a technology or not, doesn't it really matter, if they don't have the technology they will get it. I may live in America, but it doesn't really matter. frankly doesn't really matter if you live the United States or New Delhi India. Also, Fox news and all the other news stations are one-sided. they only show the bad side, of almost everything. I am taught that France is a very educated country, and to think they don't have technology is just plain stupid. and I admit some places in the US aren't taught as well as others ( I mean some places taught that people in Alaska live in igloos, others taught, that where an island off the coast of California. )Quote - (Croquant said @ #13.2)Quote - (RiVaLSSJ said @ #13.1)He's American. He can't help it. They're taught that America is "The Greatest Country On Earth" and other such nationalist nonsense. All they learn about the rest of the world is the usually neocon propaganda spouted by Fox Noise et. al and whatever they managed to pick up in school between heaping helpings of 'We Are So Great" indoctrination. Remember, any country that didn't join Bush's "War Of Terror" was promptly vilified and called names after 9/11. (You remember when those idiots in the US Congress passed a motion renaming "French Fires" to "Freedom Fires"? What a bunch of morons.) Heck, the Canadians joined Bush's "War Of Terror" and those American Fascits on Fox Noise STILL accused them of 'harboring terrorists' (which was, of course, complete bull****).Quote - (brandnewfantx said @ #1)France doesn't have the technology ...
Why's that? Do you think that France is some uncivilized country or something? C'mon people, stop being so ignorant.
So, what did you expect of the typical American Idiot (Brandnewfantx Jackassius)? He's been told he lives in the greatest country on earth, and since he doesn't know anything about any other country, he believes what he's been told. Ah, indoctrination; thy name is America.
Someone give this guy another cheeseburger.
well that is my opinion at least (it would be a lot longer, but it's really late
)
~xDayan -
#11.5 Posted by solardog on 26 Nov 2007 - 18:52
- Quote - (Croquant said @ #11.2)Quote - (RiVaLSSJ said @ #13.1)He's American. He can't help it. They're taught that America is "The Greatest Country On Earth" and other such nationalist nonsense. All they learn about the rest of the world is the usually neocon propaganda spouted by Fox Noise et. al and whatever they managed to pick up in school between heaping helpings of 'We Are So Great" indoctrination. Remember, any country that didn't join Bush's "War Of Terror" was promptly vilified and called names after 9/11. (You remember when those idiots in the US Congress passed a motion renaming "French Fires" to "Freedom Fires"? What a bunch of morons.) Heck, the Canadians joined Bush's "War Of Terror" and those American Fascits on Fox Noise STILL accused them of 'harboring terrorists' (which was, of course, complete bull****).Quote - (brandnewfantx said @ #1)France doesn't have the technology ...
Why's that? Do you think that France is some uncivilized country or something? C'mon people, stop being so ignorant.
So, what did you expect of the typical American Idiot (Brandnewfantx Jackassius)? He's been told he lives in the greatest country on earth, and since he doesn't know anything about any other country, he believes what he's been told. Ah, indoctrination; thy name is America.
Wow, sounds like you just crawled right out of Micheal Moore's ass. You're a fool.
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#14 Posted by kravex on 26 Nov 2007 - 09:48
- The governments have to look at things like this to save money, they can't keep letting the RIAA and the like keep using the courts and taxpayers money to prosecute people over '99 pence' songs.
Go steal something from your local shop for under a £1, see if you end up in a huge court case or just get a small fine or a caution from the police.
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#15 Posted by cragdoo on 26 Nov 2007 - 12:23
- ok , let's apply the French Governments thinking to a non internet related subject , CARS !
From now on all Car manufacturers will be responsible for monitoring the use of their products. Manufacturers will be expected to police the roads , and punish drivers by impounding their cars for any offence on the roads
puuuuuuh-lease , get a grip
Those illegally sharing files will face the loss of their net access thanks to a newly-created anti-piracy body granted the wide-ranging powers. The anti-piracy body comes out of a deal agreed by France's music and movie makers and its net firms. The group who brokered the deal said the measures were intended to curb casual piracy rather than tackle large scale pirate groups. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said the deal was a "decisive moment for the future of a civilised internet".
Net firms will monitor what their customers are doing and pass on information about persistent pirates to the new independent body. Those identified will get a warning and then be threatened with either being cut off or suspended if they do not stop illegal file-sharing. The agreement between net firms, record companies, film-makers and government was drawn up by a special committee created to look at the problem of the net and cultural protection.
Denis Olivennes, head of the French chain store FNAC, who chaired the committee said current penalties for piracy - large fines and years in jail - were "totally disproportionate" for those young people who do file-share illegally.