Neowin.net

I guess to the Steve Balmer and Bill Gates fanboy crowd, this would be. Let me give you a new definition of scary:

Microsoft Leadership On Crack

Microsoft should only be pleased by this. Remember, the fact that Macs can actually run Windows and Office are 2 of the best (and highly advertised) selling points of a Mac. Every time a Mac gets sold there's a good chance Microsoft will also sell a copy of Office or Windows.

don't know anyone who bought windows just cause they got a mac, a few of use have both already thou

I know of a government organisation with quite a few machines that actually bought mac minis and made Apple put bootcamp on them (before it was mainstream, like in the beta days, they were actually one of the first to have bootcamp) specifically to run windows, becasue they liked the form factor...

Do you have the figures for the rest of the PC market?

hewitt is pulling "facts" out of his posterior end.
Gartner's analysis (Sept 2007) estimates a 12.3% increase.
IDG's projections (Dec 2007) predicts a 14.6%.

Both are well under the 40% mark.

I do indeed...

According to iSuppli's figures as of November 2007, HP had a (fiscal) year-to-year increase of 32.7%, Dell had a 1.5% increase, Lenevo had a 22.6% increase, Acer had a 68.8% increase, and Toshiba had 18.7%.

Keep in mind these figures end in Q3 2007. Apple's figures include December of last year, so there are an additional 3 months of PC sales not calculated into these numbers.

http://www.isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id...m=11&y=2007

Last edited by evo_spook on 15 Jan 2008 - 18:55

First off, the average of the year-to-year growth for the 5 vendors listed is 24.8%, not 21%. You must have been using an iCalc or something...

Second, these PC sales figures were up to September 2007, whereas the Mac figure is till December 2007. That means the PC figures do not include holiday sales, which is when the majority of Apple's sales growth occurs. There should be an equally large holiday growth for the PC vendors, but again these numbers are not included.

Last edited by hewitt s. on 15 Jan 2008 - 19:13

If you care to look, I edited that well before your reply, sorry you must have being using a really slow machine for there to be such a time lapse.

Now on the second point, if you are going to make up your figures on things that may, might have, could have done rather then sticking to factual figures that you yourself have produced makes your posting of the figures originally.

Is it our fault, you produced them rather then ones that included figures for the year end? we can only go what you produced, which is 24%

A Mac lover like yourself certainly is familiar with having a slow machine...



I was very clear that these figures did not include the last three months. Feel free to go find these if your so intent on proving me wrong.

I'm not pulling anything out of my ass. I have no need. I'm comfortable knowing Apple will always be an inferior product with small market share.

In regards to the numbers, the Gartner and IDG figures are projections. Gartner is from September. The numbers I supplied are actual numbers reported by iSuppli.

Second, if you read the IDG, it says "PC shipments will increase by 16.7% in the fourth quarter of this year". That is an increase for the quarter. The Apple article is a year-to-year growth number. If you want to break that down by quarter, that gives Apple a 10% growth per quarter.

Last edited by hewitt s. on 15 Jan 2008 - 20:15

hewitt, I have no idea how you are getting such high numbers, even from isuppli, which clearly shows a total year-to-year increase of 13.8% for the entire segment.

Do you even know how to deal with percentages? You don't just add the quarters together, you use the total sales volumes and calculate your percentage. Or just arbitrarily pick the "top 5" listed suppliers. Use the whole market (total shipments).

Your link shows a lower year-over-year gain than the projections I linked to. Since you apparently still have a gun, why not just reply and shoot yourself in your only remaining good foot, since you shot a large hole in one already!

Last edited by markjensen on 15 Jan 2008 - 20:53

The 24.8% number referenced earlier was an average of the top 5 vendors. The total growth number, as reported in the iSuppli link, does indeed show 13.8%. Please find where I dispute this number.



I never said the per-quarter breakdown was an even split. Please find where I state this. I was mearly pointing out that if you use 16.7% as a quarter growth rate for the PC, then you could average the alleged Apple year-to-year growth to being 10% per quarter. Please find where I said that Apple growth was exactly 10% per quarter. By the way, your buddy evo was the one who first averaged the top 5, I was just correcting has incorrect average (which he corrected).

If you compare year-to-year growth with a specific vendor, since Apple is just one vendor, you'll see Acer is in the lead at 68.8%. HP had a 32.7% year-to-year growth. Again, those numbers are only 9 months of the same term that Apple reported 40%.



Again, as stated earlier in this response, please find where I dispute the 13.8% figure reported by iSuppli.

Last edited by hewitt s. on 15 Jan 2008 - 21:43

Pointing out an average of the "top 5" is nonsense. It is not a valid statistic to apply to the market. It would be the equivalent to pointing out the average color of their mousepads. Likewise, per-quarter stats are interesting, but do not directly apply to the year-over-year numbers. Finally, I never said you disputed the number. You certainly avoided it and tried some smoke-and-mirrors to artificially provide inflated numbers.

Again, I question your ability to deal with these percentages, given the light in which you distort them to support your position that the non-Apple market had equivalent gains. It didn't. End of story.

It is ok to disagree with me. But calling people a moron three times is no way to win in any discussion.

EDIT: I see you decided to finally cool down and remove your insults.

Last edited by markjensen on 15 Jan 2008 - 21:42

I never used an average of the top 5% as a figure to support my argument. I was mearly correcting evo's math, as he was the one who initially averaged it to get a figure. I don't recall you commenting to evo that this was not an accurate measure.



Perhaps comparing the whole PC market to Apple's growth was a mistake, but I'm not incorrect that the PC market saw similar growth. If you look at year-to-year growth of individual vendors, you'll see HP has similar growth to Apple and that Acer has exceeded their growth. Apple is after all one vendor of computer hardware, so comparing it to other vendors is a better measure.

How they pulled off a 40% growth is a mystery.

LOL - that many ?

Since Apple has, at best, 5% of the global market share, they must have only sold 14 systems in 2007.

Seriously though, it would be interesting to see some (referenced) info on their market share.

Last edited by Jugalator on 16 Jan 2008 - 09:51

Are you and hewit having the same problem with numbers?

LOL - for some reason, that brings to mind Lee Van-Cleef and Clint in Few Dollars more

Yes, but this is about Apple Mac sales, not OSX sales, whether its running windows, Linux, OSX or BSD it makes no difference.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=758
Apple marketing at its best.



Security wise, it's been said many times that it DOES NOT matter what operating system that you use it is ONLY SECURE if the user knows how to secure it. If you are one of those users who "Click here for free PORN" and then click YES to install free porn then YES you're better off with Mac OSX (the road to a good experience will be rough on Windows 98, 2k, and XP).

Stability, optimization, etc. No **** SHERLOCK HOLMES, if I buy a computer that has its hardware put together by the same company, softwares written by the same company, firmware written by the same company, and QA done by the same company then it better "JUST WORKS." If not, then I'll be ****ed.

The ONLY hardware tide to Apple OSX is their motherboard, you can buy other brands of ram(hopefully compatible), ATI graphics card, DVD BURNER/ROM, Hard Drive and etc to put into your Mac system.



Where have you been dear friend. FYI, Microsoft releases patches for RECENT exploits the second Tuesday of each month.

Although I do agree with you that less worries when using a Mac OSX and the GUI does look freaking good. The way Apple has put their OS together is very well thought out. Their design of their laptops are very nice, but I'd imagine those things can get incredibly HOT; thinner laptops = smaller/thinner heat sinks (though I believe they made very good use of heat pipes) and high powered devices are closer together.

Hope you don't get offended and hope you don't believe EVERYTHING advertisements/marketting throws at you. That is just your lost their gain.

A correction here: The platform do matter. It helps to have a fairly experienced user configuring it and doing it right. Definitely. But accidents can still happen, especially if the computer is connected to the Internet. Reducing the problem to porn ads is oversimplifying the problem. This wasn't exactly how the Sasser worm spread without any user interaction.

Calm down a bit. This doesn't invalidate what he said, it actually reaffirms it. This IS an advantage of the Mac design.

This is also true, and another advantage.

Last edited by Jugalator on 16 Jan 2008 - 10:04