If you run iTunes or QuickTime or any Apple software on your Windows PC, but not Safari, you might have seen an uninvited guest show up in the Apple Software Update earlier this week. Yes, Apple thinks you need yet another browser. They tried to slip the new Safari 3.1 in for iTunes owners, a move that has some Windows users up in arms.
The program is usually used for updating Apple software, and so getting new software with the deal wasn't something a lot of users expected. And users who don't do anything but the default, are basically going to be getting software they didn't plan to have.
Link: Tuaw via Gizmodo.
The program is usually used for updating Apple software, and so getting new software with the deal wasn't something a lot of users expected. And users who don't do anything but the default, are basically going to be getting software they didn't plan to have.
Link: Tuaw via Gizmodo.
Pay attention, when you install Safari on windwos and uncheck the option to install apple update software the installtion will install the software none the less!
I am sure although I only tested it on my main PC with vista utlimate on it, everytime I install safari 3 (since beta days) I always uncheck all the optional software and each time I find that there is apple software update installed and running on my PC
Look in windows program uninstall options in Programs and Features (if its Vista) or Add/Remove Programs (XP) at the control panel
software installersat all.Corrected.
software installersat all.Corrected.
Altering my words, how clever.
Apple Software Update should stick to what it says on the tin; offering updates for installed software, not forcing you to install software that you don't have in the first place in order to get the upgrade you really want. It'd be like Firefox Auto-Update forcing you to install Thunderbird in order to update Firefox.
Perhaps Ad-aware, Spybot, etc. ought flag Apple Software Update as malware until Apple ceases this behaviour.
You can turn it off
You can turn it off
Think so? Good luck with that.
Choosing to not install the Updater doesn't work either, it installs it no matter what you say.
I stopped installing quicktime when the stupid annoying update bitch kept nagging me...
Last edited by Joel on 22 Mar 2008 - 13:09
Unless you count:
Granted, Microsoft's trying to improve... I give them some marks for effort.
Unless you count:
Granted, Microsoft's trying to improve... I give them some marks for effort.
I'm gonna take a stand as one of the many people who enjoys the updated IE interface. I find layouts like Firefox's bland and uninspired afterwards, much like opening NCSA Mosaic would make you feel in the IE4-6 days. I find IE7's bars fluid and--believe it or not--intuitive, whatever that may say about my senses.
I'm not quite sure, but I think there were a lot of complaints about the stop/reload buttons not being right next to the back/forward buttons? That has nothing to do with keeping it intuitive, that's just about what people are used to. It would be very, very...extraordinarily rare to push back/forward and need to immediately push stop/reload afterwards, or vice versa. Once your mouse hand learns where the buttons are, you never think twice about it again.
Honestly, complaining about the layout just makes people sound like a bunch of old farts whimpering about how things used to be and the evils of change.
And yet it's still more appealing than FireFox or Safari? Wow, you sure are picky.
* Slow-as molasses page rendering.
Also, the sky is green now. Yes, green.
* A lack of extensions, such as adblock or gestures.
I guess the IE experience is good enough on it's own to not need this extra crap. Sorry that your browser isn't.
* ActiveX, the attack vector for 80% of spyware programs.
Stop giving the talking moose your credit card number or downloading things you shouldn't be and you'll be fine.
* Every search engine and web portal in existence pushing their sh***y toolbar or search helper on you.
As opposed to Apple pushing Safari on iTunes users or Java pushing OpenOffice on you? Take 2 seconds and click "No" when you are asked if you want it. It's really that simple. Really. Next time, READ a software setup screen, don't just click 'Next' through everything and assume you know what you're doing.
* Poor adherence to standards, guaranteeing NO interoperability for years to come.
Another statement that makes no sense. What is IE not interoperable with? Get back to me if you find something.
* Microsoft's slow update cycle, leaving vulnerabilities in the wild for years at a time.
Weekly updates? That's so much worse than Mozilla's "when we get around to it" schedule for sure.
Sounds like someone needs to try IE before crapping all over it
And yet it's still more appealing than FireFox or Safari? Wow, you sure are picky.
* Slow-as molasses page rendering.
Also, the sky is green now. Yes, green.
* A lack of extensions, such as adblock or gestures.
I guess the IE experience is good enough on it's own to not need this extra crap. Sorry that your browser isn't.
* ActiveX, the attack vector for 80% of spyware programs.
Stop giving the talking moose your credit card number or downloading things you shouldn't be and you'll be fine.
* Every search engine and web portal in existence pushing their sh***y toolbar or search helper on you.
As opposed to Apple pushing Safari on iTunes users or Java pushing OpenOffice on you? Take 2 seconds and click "No" when you are asked if you want it. It's really that simple. Really. Next time, READ a software setup screen, don't just click 'Next' through everything and assume you know what you're doing.
* Poor adherence to standards, guaranteeing NO interoperability for years to come.
Another statement that makes no sense. What is IE not interoperable with? Get back to me if you find something.
* Microsoft's slow update cycle, leaving vulnerabilities in the wild for years at a time.
Weekly updates? That's so much worse than Mozilla's "when we get around to it" schedule for sure.
Sounds like someone needs to try IE before crapping all over it
Sorry C_Guy but he is right on every count, you just got your trashed worked. IE blows all day long. FF kicks all kinds of ass. Ad-block and all the other ad-ons that IE doesn't have just make it that much better. I will never go back to that pig IE. Rock on!!!
actually i think C guy is a lot more correct in his statements than the other guy, especially this one "Microsoft's slow update cycle, leaving vulnerabilities in the wild for years at a time." he has no idea what he is talkign about as MS actually is considered one of the best at fixing flaws..if you or he can name one flaw that MS hass known about and left for 'years then please let us all know' and i hope he isnt comparing it to any of the other browsers becasue they are worse in my opinion
i actually dont mind IE7
This makes the Apple Software Updater borderline malware in my book.
I don't agree with it apple doing it either but these malware/spyware comments are way OTT. Was it malware or spyware when MS included a browser and a media player in windows?
This makes the Apple Software Updater borderline malware in my book.
Yeah, and damn Microsoft for putting out WGA and Internet Explorer 7 ("but it's an update to IE 6!"
Get real. It isn't new for companies to pull stunts like this - Apple is far from the first. Have you been updating your java recently and seen how now you can get "OpenOffice for free, click here!"? I don't condone any of this activity - if the company wants to offer advertisements for its other products through its update services that's somewhat OK, but don't bundle new software in the guise of software updates. That's deceptive.
Get real. It isn't new for companies to pull stunts like this - Apple is far from the first. Have you been updating your java recently and seen how now you can get "OpenOffice for free, click here!"? I don't condone any of this activity - if the company wants to offer advertisements for its other products through its update services that's somewhat OK, but don't bundle new software in the guise of software updates. That's deceptive.
When I installed Windows, and turned on Windows Update, I fully expected for Microsoft to push updates to the operating system, such as WGA (I don't like it any more than anyone else, but it's hard not to classify it as an update to the licensing components of Windows), and because IE6 is already something in the OS, and IE7 actually is an update for it, IE7 (And a pretty important one, given the terrible security impact of keeping 6 installed, even if you don't use it).
However, if you install something like iTunes or Quicktime, it's not that software's job to start forcing other completely unrelated crap down your throat.
I don't agree with it apple doing it either but these malware/spyware comments are way OTT. Was it malware or spyware when MS included a browser and a media player in windows?
these comments are just stupid Apple does the same shipping a browser and media player with Apple OS as does every version of linux, and also i ask this if they did not ship a browser with the OS how the hell do you get to the web to download any browser at all??
So I figured I'd use it... all I can say is that it's pretty fugly.
*Baaa-daaa-boooooom.....................tisssssssssssssssss
If you want music organizer, search for a better program, get rid of iTunes.
If you want to watch quicktime movies, get Media Player Classic, it is better than QT player, it does not require installation.
And btw, expect a lawsuit against Apple for this.
Not so much "keen to push Safari" as "going to cram Safari down your throat whether you want it or not". If you use iTunes then of course it's natural you'll want to install a totally unrelated application when you update... oh no wait, it's not. And of course, since the way you update iTunes has given you strong 'memory-muscle' for what buttons to press, then having the "Install a totally unrelated app" pre-ticked is the best thing to do... oh no wait, it's not. (Well, it's the best thing to do for Apple I guess - it'll give Jobs some nice figures to quote in some months.)
Apple's getting more and more shady as time goes on.
Hence the EU....
Yeah right, like OSX doesn't bundle that crap? This is pushing software you dont already have. You know IE7 is still an optional update? Apple releases a new version of browser and immediately forces people to upgrade to it, good thing im not a paranoid admin who always let's things 'bake in'
OSX bundles it but in many cases you can pretty easily remove it. I expect them to become more Microsoft-like with regard to that in the near future, though.
As for forcing the Safari update, I don't know where you're getting that from. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt but I think you're spreading FUD.
these type of comments are just stupid Apple does the same shipping a browser and media player with Apple OS as does every version of linux, and also i ask this if they did not ship a browser with the OS how the hell do you get to the web to download any browser at all??
Thats fine in saying that and for me and you its ok, but for the less in the know about PC's which they are many a lot of them will see it as an update to something they already have thats is the problem here!
sun java vm - google toolbar
deamon tolls - google toolbar
I'm sure there are loads of others as well.
Tonnes of software push other softwares when installing. Few (since there is like at least one now?) actually does that when updating.
Tonnes of software push other softwares when installing. Few (since there is like at least one now?) actually does that when updating.
I think that Sun offers Google Toolbar when the Java VM is being updated.
Google and Yahoo have secretly installed browsers on your operating system?
It's one thing to install a plugin, which is bad enough already, and another to install an entire web browser that takes over your operating system's handling of hyperlinks.
Anyway, the winner is Firefox. It's a fact.
Anyway, the winner is Firefox. It's a fact.
[/quote]
I fail to see Safari 3.1 on that chart.
Anyway, the winner is Firefox. It's a fact.
[/quote]
I fail to see Safari 3.1 on that chart.
yea old chart but, Safari 3.1 score ~3500 on my system while latest FF3 prebeta5 scores ~2500, safari 3.1 with latest webkit scored ~2900 , then it ****ed the hell of me and got deleted
The SunSpider test is just one suite of javascript tests, and not necessarily indicative of what real web-pages do with Javascript. So while it's useful for indicating rough javascript engine performance between browsers (or different versions of the same browser), it's not really a "real world" test.
Also the speed of the Javascript Engine is only one aspect relating to the performance of a web-browser. There's other subsystems that will effect a browser's speed, like the parser speed, the layout/reflow speed, the rendering speed, speed of accessing the DOM, etc.
If one browser does particularly badly in the SunSpider test then I fully expect them to make their own test suite that will test the fastest bits of their Javascript Engine and not fare so well on other browsers. Then every browser will have a JS test that they excel at and everyone can say they are the fastest
According to one online test.
But yes, Firefox 3.0 Beta 4 is performing very well indeed and Firefox 3.0 may well be the top browser according to the SunSpider test once released. That much can be said, at least.
Google and Yahoo have secretly installed browsers on your operating system?
It's one thing to install a plugin, which is bad enough already, and another to install an entire web browser that takes over your operating system's handling of hyperlinks.
Anyway, the winner is Firefox. It's a fact.
Oh wow, let's all base our decisions on a bunch of lines with numbers on them. Mind explaining to us what this graph means?
I see a bunch of ms on top, so it's like, how much ms the browser takes to complete the javascript requests. If my common sense doesn't fails me.
Google and Yahoo have secretly installed browsers on your operating system?
It's one thing to install a plugin, which is bad enough already, and another to install an entire web browser that takes over your operating system's handling of hyperlinks.
Anyway, the winner is Firefox. It's a fact.
a winner at what, what the hell does this graph represent, speed to load java or something
LOL.
Moving right along . . .
Anyway...
Pushing software on iTunes customers can easily backfire. The only people that actually want to use Safari will already have a Mac or are web developers that work on (what else?) PC's.
Experienced Mac users, of course, upgrade their computers to FireFox.
Microsoft uses their dominant OS position to push a browser, they get in huge trouble.
Apple does the same thing with their dominant media player position, and you get a few random blog posts and a front page article on neowin.
Microsoft uses their dominant OS position to push a browser, they get in huge trouble.
Apple does the same thing with their dominant media player position, and you get a few random blog posts and a front page article on neowin.
it cant be considered a monopoly if other companies can do and are doing the same thing! well not with something as big as a web browser yet , until now
Oh right, they are spending their stolen Microsoft dollars... Well, I'm sure this will all blow over before they even notice.
Microsoft uses their dominant OS position to push a browser, they get in huge trouble.
Apple does the same thing with their dominant media player position, and you get a few random blog posts and a front page article on neowin.
it cant be considered a monopoly if other companies can do and are doing the same thing! well not with something as big as a web browser yet , until now
do you know what the term monopoly means?? from your comment it appears not..
Apple seems to be abusing their influence.
Apple seems to be abusing their influence.
Totally agree!
Just like you are happy with Apple telling you what hardware to use, telling you that the competition is bad?
Just like you are happy with Apple telling you what hardware to use, telling you that the competition is bad?
why yes, yes I am. Im also happy with the US government telling me that the war in Iraq is good, the sky is blue, grass is green
Just like you are happy with Apple telling you what hardware to use, telling you that the competition is bad?
If the experience continues to be as good as it is now, I have no problem with Apple telling me how to do my computing, and on what.
Just like you are happy with Apple telling you what hardware to use, telling you that the competition is bad?
If the experience continues to be as good as it is now, I have no problem with Apple telling me how to do my computing, and on what.
Then you need a psychiatrist.
Ahhh Steve Jobs' Reality Distortion Field hard at work.
Brand loyalty doesn't come much stronger than that. Basically, the corporation tells this customer what to do and he does it. Companies would kill for this sort of robotic loyalty.
Just like you are happy with Apple telling you what hardware to use, telling you that the competition is bad?
If the experience continues to be as good as it is now, I have no problem with Apple telling me how to do my computing, and on what.
hahah funny, if apple told you to jump off a cliff woudl you
Yeah... glad i took that decision
[EDIT] - To Apple: BTW the name of your browser (SAFARI) sucks.
You'll join us when you're ready. You just haven't hit rock-bottom yet. But have faith, Windows will get you there eventually.
You'll join us when you're ready. You just haven't hit rock-bottom yet. But have faith, Windows will get you there eventually.
maye when the price of macs comes dows to the same as a PC, or apple lets you install mac os on a PC, i can run all the apps i want to on a mac, or hell freezes over, or a whole bunch of people escape from the mental assuyums, or i just loose my mind.
Me personally I'm loving Safari. I've ditched Firefox for it cause i was just burned out on it.
Its been working great. Safari will be my browser for the foreseeable future on Windows.
People really should back off of Apple.
Im sick of all the complaining. Maybe I'm bias cause i've never had any of the problems others have obviously had.
But it just seems so far like a really awesome browser.
Me personally I'm loving Safari. I've ditched Firefox for it cause i was just burned out on it.
Its been working great. Safari will be my browser for the foreseeable future on Windows.
People really should back off of Apple.
Im sick of all the complaining. Maybe I'm bias cause i've never had any of the problems others have obviously had.
But it just seems so far like a really awesome browser.
If Apple could make software for Windows that looked like it was for Windows I would have no problem with it. The way it is there software looks like OSX that does not fit the overall look of Windows. If i wanted OSX I would reboot and run Leopard, posting this on Leopard actually. The thing is when Microsoft makes software for OSX it looks like it belongs on OSX not Windows Office 2008 looks great on OSX and does not have a Windows look not true with Apple. For that reason alone I will never use Apple software in Windows.
Me personally I'm loving Safari. I've ditched Firefox for it cause i was just burned out on it.
Its been working great. Safari will be my browser for the foreseeable future on Windows.
People really should back off of Apple.
Im sick of all the complaining. Maybe I'm bias cause i've never had any of the problems others have obviously had.
But it just seems so far like a really awesome browser.
If Apple could make software for Windows that looked like it was for Windows I would have no problem with it. The way it is there software looks like OSX that does not fit the overall look of Windows. If i wanted OSX I would reboot and run Leopard, posting this on Leopard actually. The thing is when Microsoft makes software for OSX it looks like it belongs on OSX not Windows Office 2008 looks great on OSX and does not have a Windows look not true with Apple. For that reason alone I will never use Apple software in Windows.
Well me personally. I love the way it looks and it matches my Vista desktop well.
So i guess its all down to taste.
So i guess its all down to taste.
Ok. That's utter nonsense.
Absolutely no visual component of Safari comes even close to fitting in with the overall look and feel and Vista. In fact, I'd say Apple went out of their way to make it like that.
The Google toolbar being bundled with other software is a ridiculous argument. When you uncheck the option to install Google toolbar, it doesn't install. ASU does.
And the argument about Windows including a media player and a browser are equally ridiculous. If Windows didn't come with IE, how would you get your precious FF? Are you going to use another computer, or go to a store and pick it up? Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I consider media playback and internet browing basic operating system functionality.
I have no problem with them offering iTunes, Safari, ASU or anything else during the install process. But no means no! And don't install an updater that's really a software manager used to push a growing list of applications.
Plus, when you to upgrade to a paid version of a free application, the software tends to show a little more respect to the users choices. Not Apple software! It just makes me want to scream!
I'm not saying Safari or iTunes are good are bad. I'm just saying I don't want them and I'm tired of having them pushed on me as an "update."
The Google toolbar being bundled with other software is a ridiculous argument. When you uncheck the option to install Google toolbar, it doesn't install. ASU does.
And the argument about Windows including a media player and a browser are equally ridiculous. If Windows didn't come with IE, how would you get your precious FF? Are you going to use another computer, or go to a store and pick it up? Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I consider media playback and internet browing basic operating system functionality.
I have no problem with them offering iTunes, Safari, ASU or anything else during the install process. But no means no! And don't install an updater that's really a software manager used to push a growing list of applications.
Plus, when you to upgrade to a paid version of a free application, the software tends to show a little more respect to the users choices. Not Apple software! It just makes me want to scream!
I'm not saying Safari or iTunes are good are bad. I'm just saying I don't want them and I'm tired of having them pushed on me as an "update."
I could not agree more. People want Windows to have no IE or WMP or anything else but do not take the time to realize that without those things what good is an OS that can't do those things out of the box?
this is an abuse, plain and simple. i installed safari 3.1 to try it out. it is as good as Firefox or IE but as someone above said, the overall look should blend into windows and for once, companies need to listen if they don't want to take "anger hits" because people won't download safari because of this.
also, itunes/quicktime bundle is an abuse. i don't use them (i have an ipod) and im happy with J. River Media Center, Quicktime Alternative and if someone close to me needs itunes there is an installer without Quicktime.
First of all, as has been evidenced time and again, people never bother to actually read anything. Of the handful who actually do, most of those can't sufficiently comprehend what they are seeing. The select few that remain who can and do both read and understand things will have no issue deselecting installs that they don't want and or need.
The rest of the yuks out there may end up installing Safari without paying attention, but why is that a big deal? It isn't malicious, and if they don't want to use it, they don't have to. At the same time, many of these same people might discover a truly elegant piece of software they otherwise may have been forever ignorant of if the check box was off by default. And who knows, they might even move to a Mac or at least try out a Mac to see what the fuss is about. Which can really only be to their benefit.
Finally, It should be pointed out that Apple's Software Update does the same thing on OS X, and you don't hear anyone pitching a bitch over that.
By the way, I find it funny that Windows users claim this is abuse, yet . . . they are using Windows, and in some cases, Vista in particular! You're OK with a poorly designed, broken OS, yet complain bitterly about what Apple is doing.
Last edited by ziadoz on 23 Mar 2008 - 17:26
I am fine with them updating the browser that comes in their OS automatically, BUT ONLY ON THEIR OWN OS. I am fine with Microsoft updating IE automatically, but I am not fine with Apple install unrelated programs in a software UPDATE on windows. If Microsoft did the same with Office for mac, installing things such as MSN messenger or other junk, that wouldnt be ok
First of all, as has been evidenced time and again, people never bother to actually read anything. Of the handful who actually do, most of those can't sufficiently comprehend what they are seeing. The select few that remain who can and do both read and understand things will have no issue deselecting installs that they don't want and or need.
The rest of the yuks out there may end up installing Safari without paying attention, but why is that a big deal? It isn't malicious, and if they don't want to use it, they don't have to. At the same time, many of these same people might discover a truly elegant piece of software they otherwise may have been forever ignorant of if the check box was off by default. And who knows, they might even move to a Mac or at least try out a Mac to see what the fuss is about. Which can really only be to their benefit.
Finally, It should be pointed out that Apple's Software Update does the same thing on OS X, and you don't hear anyone pitching a bitch over that.
By the way, I find it funny that Windows users claim this is abuse, yet . . . they are using Windows, and in some cases, Vista in particular! You're OK with a poorly designed, broken OS, yet complain bitterly about what Apple is doing.
Don't know, did you read what everyone said on here? Some of them are OSX users and didn't like what Apple did.
I find it funny that you over generalize about Windows users. You said Vista in particular is broken, I can claim OS X is broken, if you put a piece of software on INCOMPATIBLE hardware, the software will be BROKEN no matter what. Put OS X on a Mac G3 or G4 see if it runs.
Finally, it's good to have a mindset of your own.
Take a leak on the competition's products. Use apple and orange comparisons if need be.
I am fine with them updating the browser that comes in their OS automatically, BUT ONLY ON THEIR OWN OS. I am fine with Microsoft updating IE automatically, but I am not fine with Apple install unrelated programs in a software UPDATE on windows. If Microsoft did the same with Office for mac, installing things such as MSN messenger or other junk, that wouldnt be ok
Actually, Office 2008 does install MSN mac without even telling the user.
"You're OK with a poorly designed, broken OS". No, LTD, we're not and that's why we steer clear of OS X. We don't believe everything Steve Jobs says because we can think for ourselves.
Why do you try and turn every Apple article into something about Vista? Let it go already.
Try to stay focused on the topic.
Tools>Ignore Selected Updates
It is the tactic that is used.
Simple fact is that I DON'T have Safari or iTunes installed, so they don't need to be updated. It's called "Apple Software Update"! How can you update Safari if it's not installed? I find it quite annoying that QuickTime updates are always bundled as iTunes + QuickTime. I am forced to grab QuickTime manually.
Additionally, Safari was "checked" by default. I can almost guarantee users have installed iTunes (+ QuickTime) and Safari when they probably only wanted iTunes in the first place (for the iPod, eh).
UN-Installed.
Problem solved.
And about the visual, who cares about a skin support, while there are a noticeable difference between both renders:
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