Creative Goes After Driver Modder

#1 webeagle12 on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:16

How creative we can get in screwing customer?

Welcome back to Stalin era, my way or no way!!

(1 reply) #2 Naveen on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:24

Damn they were pretty good drivers! Just lost my HW SATA raid with them saved too (something to do with a SATA POWER SPLITTER CABLE best I can tell - couldnt get Nvraid to detect both as raid 0 set again).

I was a bit curious to see this on Creative's forums in plain sight the other day, though. Might just be causing they som staffing issue.

#2.1 +ckempo on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:51

(Naveen said @ #2)

Damn they were pretty good drivers! Just lost my HW SATA raid with them saved too (something to do with a SATA POWER SPLITTER CABLE best I can tell - couldnt get Nvraid to detect both as raid 0 set again).

I was a bit curious to see this on Creative's forums in plain sight the other day, though. Might just be causing they som staffing issue.

Hopefully you've seen this then.

(4 replies) #3 Trauma on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:32

outdated news, please update. creative allowed the drivers again after the backfire they got.

#3.1 BGM on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:35

hahaha

quality

#3.2 daPhoenix on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:35

(Trauma said @ #3)

outdated news, please update. creative allowed the drivers again after the backfire they got.

Don't let the facts block nerdrage.

#3.3 koppit on 31 Mar 2008 - 13:27

nerdddDRRAAAAGGGEEE!!!!!
yeah, if you read the whole story Trauma, they allowed *some* work to still be done, as long as it doesn't interfere with their IP rights. This doesn't mean they caved and hired the guy. There is no happy ending.

#3.4 HalcyonX12 on 31 Mar 2008 - 16:50

(Trauma said @ #3)

outdated news, please update. creative allowed the drivers again after the backfire they got.

I guess it's easier than just fixing their drivers! The last Creative card I ever owned was the Live!... they had problems with VIA and nVidia chipsets... they caused PCI line noise, they caused crashes.... argh!! Now I just use onboard sound. So much easier to set up, and you don't have to install 100 companion apps off the driver CD.

#4 BGM on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:35

they do make a fair point, the gist i get is that creative have crippled some features by design on some cards which have been reenabled by these new drivers?

maybe creative should just give this daniel character a job, therefore killing multiple birds with one stone.

1. improve the public image of the company to ****ed off end users
2. get around to releasing some 'official' drivers
3. stop daniel infringing on their IP

win win win!

#5 +Kushan on 31 Mar 2008 - 10:40

Even if they HAVE allowed the drivers, I sure as hell wont be buying any Creative products any time soon.
I had a webcam from them some years ago. Less than a month after buying it, they removed all trace of it from their website and wouldn't support it (Ironically, the webcam called "Creative Vista", but this was around 2003, maybe 2004). They offered to post me out a driver CD for the low price of $15.
Go to hell, creative. I'll stick to my cheap AC'97 onboard any day.

#6 Naveen on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:04

You could always have requested drivers by email you know lol. We would send out CDs at MSI quite a lot too (in the UK no less) as I have experienced this first hand myself in the past number of some years.

(4 replies) #7 Jugalator on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:10

Creative had the legal support to do what they did, but sometimes following your rights by law is not always the right decision to maintain customers relations, IMO. Anyway, this story sure blew up in their face -- it's being reported a lot across the web. And even if Creative changed their minds later, their intentions were still made public -- if they can provide worse customer and software support to sell new products without too much resistance, they will try to. I will definitely doubt before purchasing products from them in the future.

#7.1 daPhoenix on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:23

(Jugalator said @ #7)

Creative had the legal support to do what they did, but sometimes following your rights by law is not always the right decision to maintain customers relations.

Oh like Microsoft preventing other people from distributing updates?

Ah forgot - nerdrage against Creative is currently "cool".

#7.2 +stevember on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:31

(daPhoenix said @ #7.1)

Oh like Microsoft preventing other people from distributing updates?

Ah forgot - nerdrage against Creative is currently "cool".

I do not understand how you can even compare the differences.

#7.3 TRC on 31 Mar 2008 - 12:04

There is no comparison at all, I'm not sure what his point is.

#7.4 +DrunkenMaster on 31 Mar 2008 - 23:56

The gist is, if you don't defend the rights in the EULA (for instance for Creative) then you lose the ability to protect those rights afterwards. I suppose they could have done worse (such as sue the "modder"

but that would be really bad for PR.

I purchased the original Sound Blaster for my 386 many years back and purchased Creative products since. I'm building a new PC soon, and not on principle but on lack of quality drivers, I'm not buying another Creative card until they remedy the drivers.

(1 reply) #8 leesmithg on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:30

So a talented coder comes along and repairs all the errors and mistakes made by an employee or employee's and Creative are not looking to hunt this coder down like a pack of hungry Dogs offering him/her a position in their company.

Or did I just wake up?

#8.1 +Octol on 31 Mar 2008 - 12:36

(leesmithg said @ #

So a talented coder comes along and repairs all the errors and mistakes made by an employee or employee's and Creative are not looking to hunt this coder down like a pack of hungry Dogs offering him/her a position in their company.

Or did I just wake up?

In this regard, let me quote my signature phrase:

Albert Einstein said:

Only two things are infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the Universe.

(Note: this in-line comment editor REALLY SUCKS!! God DAMN! Fix the freakin' thing or get rid of it!!)

Last edited by Octol on 31 Mar 2008 - 13:00

#9 mikeyj on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:33

That is certainly not cool what Creative did, however they're well within their rights to do so. But then again "legal rights" can make ***holes out of a lot of corporations, sorta like Creative.

#10 leesmithg on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:45

I just read most of the thread posted, my gawd, talk about a bitchy attitude towards Daniel.

Maybe Daniel should wear a different tie and maybe talk out of his/her backside and maybe Daniel might get thanked by Creative.

#11 Davebo on 31 Mar 2008 - 11:53

Here's hoping this story breaks huge...

Someone let the Vista team know what's happening at MS. I'm sure they would love to hear about this, given the heat they are taking over crashes from poor drivers.

Creative sucks donkey dick

#12 soldier1st on 31 Mar 2008 - 13:19

creative should actualy thank him for fixing what they should have done years ago,at least give him a job at creative.

#13 Davebo on 31 Mar 2008 - 13:40

Mainstream press getting a whiff of this story now...

http://consumerist.com/373901/creative-spa...arty-programmer

#14 jstillion on 31 Mar 2008 - 13:55

I'm pretty sure Creative could of fixed things but did not want to. I've noticed that this is a method of Creative to "push" a new card. I suspect this was done (the current state of Audigy/X-Fi) on Vista so they could launch a new card that had all the features on Vista proper.

The only time Creative kept up on it's software when Aureal (R.I.P.) gave them competition or there was mass outrage (Nforce chipset / Sound card issues) via a petition that gaine massive amount of signatures in very short amount of time.

I'm still using my rather old Audigy 2 ZS (but still works great), but my next computer I build is going to be an Asus Xonar.
Asus even managed to get EAX to work via driver natively in Vista as well and... included the update in there 1st version of the Xonar... for free GASP.

Every remeber how good the Awe64 Midi files sounded on 9x but was not supported on Windows 2000.

As a consumer, I demand that they support the same features I had on XP, on Vista. I know they don't have to and since Creative does not want to listen, I'm taking my business elsewhere.

Last edited by jstillion on 31 Mar 2008 - 14:11

(1 reply) #15 mocax on 31 Mar 2008 - 14:20

Didn't RIAA pressure Microsoft and Creative to cripple some driver features in Vista, to prevent piracy?

#15.1 +GreyWolfSC on 31 Mar 2008 - 18:33

(mocax said @ #15)

Didn't RIAA pressure Microsoft and Creative to cripple some driver features in Vista, to prevent piracy?

There was no crippling really. They added a secure media path to Vista for HD content. They didn't remove anything that would affect existing media.

(1 reply) #16 Don Vincenzo on 31 Mar 2008 - 14:33

It seems newegg.com have made a statement with regard to this here - nearly 5000 return orders within 48 hours!

#16.1 TRC on 31 Mar 2008 - 15:34

Pretty sure that's fake. No such statement on their site, they are still selling them, and anyone could have posted that.

(2 replies) #17 solardog on 31 Mar 2008 - 15:31

Thats it. Thats the last straw for me. Can someone point me to a viable alternative? I was heading out to buy a new monitor today, but I just added a non-Creative sound card to my list. So who are some other manufacturers of sound cards? How about this one? AuzenTech:
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/feature.php
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16829156005

After a quick bit of research the ASUS Xonar D2X seems like an excellent alternative.

Last edited by solardog on 31 Mar 2008 - 16:04

#17.1 jstillion on 31 Mar 2008 - 16:13

(solardog said @ #17)

Thats it. Thats the last straw for me. Can someone point me to a viable alternative? I was heading out to buy a new monitor today, but I just added a non-Creative sound card to my list. So who are some other manufacturers of sound cards? How about this one? AuzenTech:
http://www.auzentech.com/site/products/feature.php
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16829156005

After a quick bit of research the ASUS Xonar D2X seems like an excellent alternative.

It even supports EAX (Eax up to version 3) natively in vista with no need of of add-on software (aka Creative Alchemy).

#17.2 midway40 on 31 Mar 2008 - 16:13

I was going to point out that the AuzenTech uses the Creative EMU chip. I will be getting a ASUS next month myself after this debacle.

(1 reply) #18 +Skwerl on 31 Mar 2008 - 16:15

You're failing to realize that licensing terms might be the issue here. Notice in the original text from OShaugnessy that other companies' IP was mentioned. It's probably not that Creative can't get these features to work in Vista- it is probably a matter of it costing an arm and a leg for them to license the technology necessary to do so. Just because it can work, that doesn't mean that they are legally able to. "Daniel_K" isn't doing anything programmers at Creative can't- only what they're not allowed to do.

#18.1 mezron on 31 Mar 2008 - 17:29

I've been following this unfold since last June and whats really happened is more along the lines of "Ok, lets get everything working on all the cards, then actively disable them on all cards older than the XFi". For the most part Daniel has just re-enabled the features on the older cards using the xfi drivers. I think Daniel hit a nerve when he enabled the crystalizer feature on the Audigy, which according to Creative was only possible (and therefore a selling point) on the XFi.

He posted about finding audigy strings in the xfi drivers several months ago and it was looking like Creative was putting the features in, but then it never materialized. Many people on the forums were speculating that all the features were really there for the Audigy but were being disabled to "encourage" people to upgrade to an XFi. Phil O'Shaunessy's email confirmed what many of us were already speculating.

#19 ajua on 31 Mar 2008 - 17:31

i agree that maybe licensing issues were brought by third-parties but nontheless, creative's lack of solutions to their great customer base is really hurting them. i'm still waiting for the next gen of audio cards because of all the problems creative has with vista...

(1 reply) #20 Tzimisce on 31 Mar 2008 - 20:04

this is horrible, so it IS possible for the drivers to work, they just don't WANT them to work. What in the hell IS this?
And in the event that there is a marketing / license issue for why they cannot do it. They should SAY SO rather than telling us it can't be done. Because the user WILL do it.

#20.1 DJ Specs on 01 Apr 2008 - 04:18

Exactly. That's why nobody should buy anything from these jackoffs. It's time for this company to finally die.

(1 reply) #21 morphen on 31 Mar 2008 - 20:44

THAT does it!! I'm getting a AdLib Card!!!

#21.1 RAID 0 on 01 Apr 2008 - 17:34

It's been DAYS since I've even read about that card. Thanks for bringing back memories.

(2 replies) #22 vacs on 31 Mar 2008 - 21:24

Where can one download those drivers since they are legal again?
Can't find a link...

#22.1 morphen on 31 Mar 2008 - 22:03

(vacs said @ #22)

Where can one download those drivers since they are legal again?
Can't find a link...

This pack includes drivers for the following sound cards:
Audigy series
Audigy 2 series
Audigy 2 Value
Audigy 2 ZS series
Audigy 2 ZS Notebook
Audigy 4 series

Download on source page, not sure if they are the newest versions.

source: http://digiex.net/drivers/164-creative-aud...s-daniel_k.html

#22.2 InsaneNutter on 31 Mar 2008 - 22:18

(morphen said @ #22.1)

Download on source page, not sure if they are the newest versions.

source: http://digiex.net/drivers/164-creative-aud...s-daniel_k.html

Yes they are the latest versions, I posted them up there my self

#23 Clampet3000 on 31 Mar 2008 - 22:54

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/bo...0737&page=6

He can carry on.

#24 HenryC on 31 Mar 2008 - 23:36

Damage is done and I would say Creative now has the #1 PR tech blunder for the year locked up - And it is not even April yet!

Mayday! Mayday! Mayday! We're going down!

Creative Expects 3rd Quarter Loss, Sells HQ Building ( 3-23-2008 )
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/S...%20News/1235910

Stock
http://finance.google.com/finance?q=OTC:CREAF

Get out the popcorn and watch the show.

Last edited by HenryC on 01 Apr 2008 - 01:14

#25 Tikitiki on 31 Mar 2008 - 23:50

Thats blasphemous beyond all measures. I wouldn't be too surprised if their executives turned out to be on crack.

#26 Izlude on 01 Apr 2008 - 01:40

they shoulda bought his drivers and given him official creative credentials... kinda like when captain planet's team says "you're a planeteer" but not really.

(1 reply) #27 TC17 on 01 Apr 2008 - 03:19

Another example of a company stealing from their customers (by taking their money an not giving a working bug free product back or lack of updates). Yet people claim they legally have the right... yet they also fail to mention the part about them stealing from their customers.

This is typical of why warez has existed for so many years. People get tired of this crap... companies stealing from customers.

#27.1 DJ Specs on 01 Apr 2008 - 04:20

Another great point!

#28 +bryonhowley on 01 Apr 2008 - 04:03

If he had not included warez in the driver cd I do not think Creative would have taken the action they did in the first place. Not only did he include it he made it clear on his post on the Creative forums that he did plus asking for donations on the same forums. My Audigy 2 has worked just fine in Vista and without the bloat of all the Creative applications that I never used anyway.

#29 DJ Specs on 01 Apr 2008 - 04:22

Whatever happened to Turtle Beach sound cards? Are they also not very good? I thought they were a low cost alternative to the junk Creative puts out.

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